Combine

[gmenroc]

Jim, normally I'm one to agree with you or at least see where you're coming from. With Montgomery and the effort issue...I'm sorry I have to disagree. I don't want a guy who's going to half-ass it....ever. The problem is, it's (1) habit forming and (2) contagious. In the NFL, it truly is an 'any given Sunday' league. A loser team can sneak up and bite you and possibly ruin a season. I don't know that I want a guy who doesn't have the fire to play every play with utmost effort to the blow of the whistle regardless of who's across the line. IF, the guy on the other side of the line is of lesser competition, I want my guy to step on his throat and dominate in every way...not take the easy way out through half hearted play. Montgomery has all the potential in the world to play at a high level and be an asset to a team...but how much of an idiot do you have to be not to take advantage of it.

 

I mean, if you're blessed with a talent, and you choose to use it half heartedly, when you want...and to admit it as candidly and openly as he did as if it's not a big deal...I think you're a bit of an asshole...no?

[Allstarjim]

No I agree with you, gmenroc. However, Montgomery has shown big time production at the highest level of competition in college football. When you put on his film, you see him rush the passer with reckless abandon, and you see a lot of power and explosion.

 

So my point is... he can play. I want guys who can play, and I trust the Giants' coaches and teammates will ensure that the mentality is right. When you are a top tier team, though, and you are playing what everyone knows is a tune up game, it's human nature to not have the competitive juices at maximum. I mean, if you are playing an 8 year old in hoops, are you going to go out of your way to blank him and embarrass him? In the NFL, I'm sure Montgomery knows there are no off-weeks. You don't want a Randy Moss, for sure, but if you take a guy like Montgomery, and he was forthcoming about not giving max effort against Sister Mary School for the Blind, that alone isn't taking him off my draft board, and it doesn't mean he's not a competitor. It only means he knew the team they were playing were an far inferior opponent that didn't have a shot at winning. Is it a deal? Yes... it's concerning that he said that. Is it a big huge deal? I think probably not.

[gmenroc]

He was playing in a big time program with intentions, likely from his high school days, of playing in the NFL. You'd think that that alone would motivate him to put his best on the field every snap. I agree, it is human nature to play down to the level of competition, but that's an excuse...I want my draft picks to rise above that human nature and have a killer instinct. It's a tune up game? Okay then, let's treat it like one and destroy the other team. I don't want merciful defenders going into a game. They need to be merciless.

 

As a 1st round draft pick, you expect some level of leadership to develop as well. If a younger player or lower draft pick observes a leader, even if it's leader by default, taking practice too easy or taking plays in a game too easy and they adopt that behavior not having the same talents the draft pick has...could lead to bad things. Might Montgomery convince coaches that he'll change for the next level, sure...he might. But again, I'd rather have the guy that's proven it now...one who's taken advantage of the opportunity he's had to prove NOW that he's ready.

 

I also agree that his abilities allow him to succeed, but if you don't know whether or not he'll take advantage of those abilities week to week or play to play...based upon how he perceives the opponent...I don't know...it's a slippery slope and too much of a risk for me to use a draft pick on him.

[Mr. P]

My man Shamarko Thomas from Syracuse just ran a 4.38. I always hope we draft Syracuse guys so I'm biased. He also had the best benchpress of all the DB's.

[mastershake]

So far, on DT, DE and LB, here are my Likes/Dislikes based purely on the Combine:

 

 

 

Now I’m not saying all of these guys are going to be studs, but they should at least find a home and last in the NFL:

 

 

Likes:

 

-DT Shariff Floyd: May have propelled himself into the top 10 with his performance. His stock was already on the rise. Kinda wish he hadn’t participated so he potentially could have fallen to the giants #19 pick.

 

 

-DT Montori Hughes: Tennesee-Martin: 3^rd-4^th round

 

 

-DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon. in my eyes and by scouts comments, was hands down the best front 7 participant. Top 20 projected pick, possible top 10.

 

-DE/OLB Barkavious Mingo, LSU 1st round, possible top 15.

 

-DE/OLB Corey Lemonier, Auburn. 2nd-3rd round projected

 

-DE Margus Hunt, SMU. 2nd-3rd round projected

 

-DE/OLB Michael Buchanen, Illinois, 3rd-4th round projected

 

-DE/OLB Jamie Collins, 2nd-3rd round projected

 

 

-DE Ziggy Ansah, 1^st round projected. Workout looked great, but he’s extremely raw (more raw than JPP)

 

 

-MLB/OLB Jon Bostic, Florida 2nd-3rd round projected (I'm biased in favor of Florida defenders, I'll admit)

 

-WLB Sio Moore, Uconn 3rd-4th round projected

 

 

-MLB Kevin Reddick, North Carolina 3^rd-4^th round projected

 

 

 

-SLB Cornelious Washington, Georgia 3^rd – 4^th round

 

 

 

 

 

Dislikes

 

-LB Manti Teo, Notre Dame: Looked stiff, didn't help himself with the combine.

 

-LB Kevin Minter, LSU: Didn't look like 1st round material (though the combine may not be a good projector for MLBs).

 

-DE/OLB Demontre Moore, Texas A&M. Hard to assess this guy. He's top 15 projected, yet had an absolutely terrible combine for a 6'4 250 hybrid player.

 

-DT John Hankins, Ohio State. Looked fat and out of shape. Only a two down defender in this league, projected as a 1^st rounder, but shouldn’t be.

 

Not participating, or limited participant (oddly, I like Okafor and Short, but they barely participated if at all) Obviously, a lot of high profile guys generally limit themselves or skip the combine entirely:

 

 

 

-DE Alex Okafor (bench press only)

 

 

-OLB Jarvis Jones, Georgia

 

 

-DT Star Lotulelei, Utah, apparently now has a serious heart condition which may threaten his career

 

 

 

-DT Kawann Short, Purdue

 

 

 

-DT Jesse Williams (bench only)

 

 

 

-DT John Jenkins

 

 

 

-DE Brandon Jenkins

[Bigblue25]

Nice stuff Vendetta

 

I would A.J Klein to the LB group 4.66 forty and looked instinctive during the drills. I had him going to us in the 4th

 

 

[Nas]

No I agree with you, gmenroc. However, Montgomery has shown big time production at the highest level of competition in college football. When you put on his film, you see him rush the passer with reckless abandon, and you see a lot of power and explosion.

 

So my point is... he can play. I want guys who can play, and I trust the Giants' coaches and teammates will ensure that the mentality is right. When you are a top tier team, though, and you are playing what everyone knows is a tune up game, it's human nature to not have the competitive juices at maximum. I mean, if you are playing an 8 year old in hoops, are you going to go out of your way to blank him and embarrass him? In the NFL, I'm sure Montgomery knows there are no off-weeks. You don't want a Randy Moss, for sure, but if you take a guy like Montgomery, and he was forthcoming about not giving max effort against Sister Mary School for the Blind, that alone isn't taking him off my draft board, and it doesn't mean he's not a competitor. It only means he knew the team they were playing were an far inferior opponent that didn't have a shot at winning. Is it a deal? Yes... it's concerning that he said that. Is it a big huge deal? I think probably not.

 

Judging by how the team played last season especially on the Defensive side of the ball.. topped by its own captain, I'd have to say I don't trust these coaches to do what you think they're going to do...

 

I'm not taking sides on this argument as I trust you guys have a hell of knowledge in these things but from a work-ethic stand point only, I look for someone who busts his ass in everything he does (The story Chuck talked about his dance partner as a senior in college comes to mind.. hilarious yet so true).