Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Whats missing in these stats is when you need a 1st down and a yd to go.........Pussyfoot can no longer get you that yd.......hes very slow off the snap, and no longer hits the hole with anger, Bradshaw can but he's 190 with lead bricks in his pockets.......Barber would be very good for those situations and I'm not saying get rid of Pussyfoot.......just realize he's not a short yardage back, even Crazy Coughlin must be realizing this by now. Jacobs played very well last year. You are thinking of his 2009 season where he did not hit the hole with authority. I will tell you that Barber wasn't even getting those carries last season. Those short yardage situations for the Cowboys, more often than not, it was Felix Jones getting the carry, or the Cowboys passed the ball in those situations, which happened an awful lot. Plus, to put a short yardage situation all on the running back is silly. It has more to do with the offensive line getting a push than any other factor. But hey, you can look up on ESPN the play-by-plays of each game and look for Dallas short yardage situations yourself. I did... not every game but several, and I only found 1 situation where they gave the ball to Barber in those situations, it was first and goal at the 1... and he was stuffed for no gain. If you want a guy to hit the hole on 3 and 1, if they don't think Jacobs can do it they can just give it to Danny Ware or Bradshaw. Jacobs is a good running back... even if you disregard last season, Jacobs has had the better career and it's not close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Jacobs played very well last year. You are thinking of his 2009 season where he did not hit the hole with authority. I will tell you that Barber wasn't even getting those carries last season. Those short yardage situations for the Cowboys, more often than not, it was Felix Jones getting the carry, or the Cowboys passed the ball in those situations, which happened an awful lot. Plus, to put a short yardage situation all on the running back is silly. It has more to do with the offensive line getting a push than any other factor. But hey, you can look up on ESPN the play-by-plays of each game and look for Dallas short yardage situations yourself. I did... not every game but several, and I only found 1 situation where they gave the ball to Barber in those situations, it was first and goal at the 1... and he was stuffed for no gain. If you want a guy to hit the hole on 3 and 1, if they don't think Jacobs can do it they can just give it to Danny Ware or Bradshaw. Jacobs is a good running back... even if you disregard last season, Jacobs has had the better career and it's not close. lets agree to disagree on this one I'm not saying Jacobs is bad, but something snapped in his head when he realized his size left his knees vulnerable he now needs a hole to make gains.......for a 6 ft 7 265 lbs RB that is pathetic......also unlike tiki, jacobs can not wait for a hole and then dart through it.....hes got no "dart" in his game stats can deceive you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Jack, why can't you just admit once that you were wrong? Just say, you know what... I misremembered on the ability of Barber... I think of how he was 3 or 4 years ago, he's probably not the same player anymore. Stats for running backs aren't that deceiving, especially when they run around 150 times or more in a season... you get a pretty good idea of their ability based on their YPC. Jacobs ran for over 800 yards and had a 5.6 YPC. That is a fantastic season. Obviously, he was hitting holes last year and gaining a lot of yards to get that production. You and a few others on this board are still remembering his 2009 season, where he significantly regressed from the previous season... and if we were just talking about 2009, your above statement would be somewhat valid. But he got back to running like he has over the majority of his career last year. There's no doubt about it, his performance doesn't lie. Jacobs was one of our best players on offense last year. He's a big back that can take the corner... for the love he had a 70 yard plus carry last year. I don't care if he darts through a hole or plows through it, as long as he's getting 5.6 ypc, I'd be happy as a pig in shit. Seriously Jack... you are wrong this time. You're not wrong every time... but this time you are. And just to let you know, even Jacobs lackluster 2009 season was still much, MUCH better than Barber's was last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Jack, why can't you just admit once that you were wrong? Just say, you know what... I misremembered on the ability of Barber... I think of how he was 3 or 4 years ago, he's probably not the same player anymore. Stats for running backs aren't that deceiving, especially when they run around 150 times or more in a season... you get a pretty good idea of their ability based on their YPC. Jacobs ran for over 800 yards and had a 5.6 YPC. That is a fantastic season. Obviously, he was hitting holes last year and gaining a lot of yards to get that production. You and a few others on this board are still remembering his 2009 season, where he significantly regressed from the previous season... and if we were just talking about 2009, your above statement would be somewhat valid. But he got back to running like he has over the majority of his career last year. There's no doubt about it, his performance doesn't lie. Jacobs was one of our best players on offense last year. He's a big back that can take the corner... for the love he had a 70 yard plus carry last year. I don't care if he darts through a hole or plows through it, as long as he's getting 5.6 ypc, I'd be happy as a pig in shit. Seriously Jack... you are wrong this time. You're not wrong every time... but this time you are. And just to let you know, even Jacobs lackluster 2009 season was still much, MUCH better than Barber's was last season. that seems to be a habit around here, not just with jacobs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 besides, last year wasn't the first time barber averaged under 4 yards per carry, he did it 2 other seasons as well. only time jacobs averaged under 4 was his rookie year where he was strictly a short yardage back. also barber has never averaged over 5 yards per carry, while jacobs has averaged over 5 yards per carry 3 times in his 6 year career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Jack, Barber is strictly between the tackles. They don't even call plays for him to run outside, so I don't know what you're talking about. He has NO speed. FORGET 1000 yards... Barber didn't run for 400 yards last year. Jack, I have a buddy that I watched football a lot with when I was in Kuwait... he was a huge Cowboys' fan and we watched several games together. This guy watches as much football as I do... and knows as much about the Cowboys as I know about the Giants. He hates Marion Barber and he couldn't wait until the guy was gone. He wanted Tashard Choice to take his carries last year. Barber: 113 carries, 374 yards Jacobs: 147 carries, 823 yards Barber: 3.3 Yards Per Carry Jacobs: 5.6 Yards Per Carry Barber: 3 carries more than 20 yards Jacobs: 10 carries more than 20 yards Barber: 25 yard long Jacobs: 73 yard long Barber: 4 TDs rushing Jacobs: 9 TDs rushing Anybody who would take Barber over Jacobs is an absolute fucking idiot... please get hired as the Eagles GM immediately. Thank you. Barber has always been overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I'd bring him here for the toughness he will instill in our team alone The man is a BEAST when he chooses to turn it on The man is a beast when he feels like it? Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 He is, but playing for a dysfunctional losing team with a nut case owner can probably leave you a bit concerned no matter how many pretty women are hanging from baskets. I'd like Marion as a situational back, and third option behind the starter Bradshaw and Pussyfoot #2.....he does knock down a lot of yardage but not always when you really need it Barber has the determination of Bradshaw but in a bigger body Tiki Barber trumps them all but he would never come here unless Terrible Tom is gone I'd like to see Chuckie, or the Chin as our next HC. But Tiki will probably only play 2-3 more years.....I see Tiki playing for Dallas and torturing us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE01 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 He is, but playing for a dysfunctional losing team with a nut case owner can probably leave you a bit concerned no matter how many pretty women are hanging from baskets. I'd like Marion as a situational back, and third option behind the starter Bradshaw and Pussyfoot #2.....he does knock down a lot of yardage but not always when you really need it Barber has the determination of Bradshaw but in a bigger body Tiki Barber trumps them all but he would never come here unless Terrible Tom is gone I'd like to see Chuckie, or the Chin as our next HC. But Tiki will probably only play 2-3 more years.....I see Tiki playing for Dallas and torturing us Marion sucks, no thanks. Barber trumps them all easily..............................................4 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Jack, Barber is strictly between the tackles. They don't even call plays for him to run outside, so I don't know what you're talking about. He has NO speed. FORGET 1000 yards... Barber didn't run for 400 yards last year. Jack, I have a buddy that I watched football a lot with when I was in Kuwait... he was a huge Cowboys' fan and we watched several games together. This guy watches as much football as I do... and knows as much about the Cowboys as I know about the Giants. He hates Marion Barber and he couldn't wait until the guy was gone. He wanted Tashard Choice to take his carries last year. Barber: 113 carries, 374 yards Jacobs: 147 carries, 823 yards Barber: 3.3 Yards Per Carry Jacobs: 5.6 Yards Per Carry Barber: 3 carries more than 20 yards Jacobs: 10 carries more than 20 yards Barber: 25 yard long Jacobs: 73 yard long Barber: 4 TDs rushing Jacobs: 9 TDs rushing Anybody who would take Barber over Jacobs is an absolute fucking idiot... please get hired as the Eagles GM immediately. the dog still thinks barber has potential to have an impact on some team, just not a fit for the giants...and comparing their numbers last year makes no sense...jacobs on the cowboys last year would put up barber-like numbers...maybe less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yeah right, Dog... that's why Felix Jones was so ineffective. Oh wait he wasn't. Barber was the third best back behind Jones and Choice last year on that team. He sucks, you look like a fool (again), but please keep this non-starter of a debate going. I would rather bring back Ron Dayne than have Marion Barber. And yes it's right to compare last year, because that is the most relevant data. But even if you want to go farther back, Jacobs has had the better career by far. If you watched any Cowboys football at all, you would see Barber is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Yeah right, Dog... that's why Felix Jones was so ineffective. Oh wait he wasn't. Barber was the third best back behind Jones and Choice last year on that team. He sucks, you look like a fool (again), but please keep this non-starter of a debate going. I would rather bring back Ron Dayne than have Marion Barber. And yes it's right to compare last year, because that is the most relevant data. But even if you want to go farther back, Jacobs has had the better career by far. If you watched any Cowboys football at all, you would see Barber is finished. ha ha ha...man are you an angry man...nobody insulted you "allstar" jim. the dog was simply stating that barber is better than being given credit for, and jacobs is nothing special. in fact, the dog would argue that storm was insulting the bag of potatos when he compared the two. and yes, felix jones is a better back, and choice has more break away ability, both of whom would take carries from jacobs if he was on the cowboys last year as the dog merely suggested. and the dog admitted to not seeing much of the cowboys last year, but will not judge barber on that year alone. he ran hard and reckless in the past, so if he can come back this year with that level of tenasity, he can be effective for a team....no, no...wait, "allstar" jims good dear friend and cowboy fan doesn't like barber, so that means he is a bad player, because the good lord knows fans of teams are always spot on in their assessment of professional talents and skill set...why? because "allstar" jim's dear friend said so...ha ha ha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ha ha ha...man are you an angry man...nobody insulted you "allstar" jim. the dog was simply stating that barber is better than being given credit for, and jacobs is nothing special. in fact, the dog would argue that storm was insulting the bag of potatos when he compared the two. and yes, felix jones is a better back, and choice has more break away ability, both of whom would take carries from jacobs if he was on the cowboys last year as the dog merely suggested. and the dog admitted to not seeing much of the cowboys last year, but will not judge barber on that year alone. he ran hard and reckless in the past, so if he can come back this year with that level of tenasity, he can be effective for a team....no, no...wait, "allstar" jims good dear friend and cowboy fan doesn't like barber, so that means he is a bad player, because the good lord knows fans of teams are always spot on in their assessment of professional talents and skill set...why? because "allstar" jim's dear friend said so...ha ha ha... Hahahaha... I'm not angry. I just have no respect for you at all. You are a complete moron. You show it often. I love when you debate me on stuff, because you keep coming back to make yourself look more and more stupid... just like the above paragraph. I love to have a back and forth with people of this board who actually know their shit... there are those that can have a good back and forth with... but you are a turd. It's like a cat playing with a mouse. The cat plays with the mouse for a bit right before biting it's head off. I might toy around with you but your opinion is useless because nobody cares what a imbecile has to say. The only reason you get a response from me is because you're also an asshole. If you were only retarded, I'd leave you alone and let you be a dumbass. But since you're also a complete dick, I enjoy baiting you so you can continue to show what a dumbass you are... keeping going sideshow, you're doing great!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 By the way moron, Barber didn't lose carries to Choice... Choice was third string behind Barber, yet still outperformed him in his opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Hahahaha... I'm not angry. I just have no respect for you at all. You are a complete moron. You show it often. I love when you debate me on stuff, because you keep coming back to make yourself look more and more stupid... just like the above paragraph. I love to have a back and forth with people of this board who actually know their shit... there are those that can have a good back and forth with... but you are a turd. It's like a cat playing with a mouse. The cat plays with the mouse for a bit right before biting it's head off. I might toy around with you but your opinion is useless because nobody cares what a imbecile has to say. The only reason you get a response from me is because you're also an asshole. If you were only retarded, I'd leave you alone and let you be a dumbass. But since you're also a complete dick, I enjoy baiting you so you can continue to show what a dumbass you are... keeping going sideshow, you're doing great!. ha ha ha ha...sure "allstar" jim, you're not angry at all...ha ha ha ha... look, if you want to argue that barber is washed up, so be it. the dog thinks it is comical that you can state this as fact because your good friend doesn't like him and because he saw limited time last year behind a better back and a situational player with game breaking ability. both of whom would have impacted jacobs in the same way. we'll see if barber does anything this year. who knows. one thing the dog knows is that you are wrapped painfully tight. and comparing two backs on two different teams is useless when you refuse to consider all other aspects...but no wait, "allstar" jim and his sidekick from his time in kuwait say it is so, and so be it...ha ha ha ha ha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 the dog thinks barber was fairly underrated. he was never really a feature back, so lost carries to others through most of his career which speaks to never having a 1000 yard season (a stat that is becoming less relevant now-a-days). he is under 30 years old, so he still may have something left in the tank, and quite frankly could land somewhere and be valuable, but the dog wouldn't see the giants jumping to take him. he always ran extremely hard and was very physical, but the dog didn't see many cowboy games last year to see if that still holds true. if he still runs with the same intensity that he did in past years, he can make some team better. and yes, if given the choice between barber and jacobs, the dog would take barber...never saw jacobs the same way many have, but that is well documented on these boards... the dog still thinks barber has potential to have an impact on some team, just not a fit for the giants...and comparing their numbers last year makes no sense...jacobs on the cowboys last year would put up barber-like numbers...maybe less. ha ha ha...man are you an angry man...nobody insulted you "allstar" jim. the dog was simply stating that barber is better than being given credit for, and jacobs is nothing special. in fact, the dog would argue that storm was insulting the bag of potatos when he compared the two. and yes, felix jones is a better back, and choice has more break away ability, both of whom would take carries from jacobs if he was on the cowboys last year as the dog merely suggested. and the dog admitted to not seeing much of the cowboys last year, but will not judge barber on that year alone. he ran hard and reckless in the past, so if he can come back this year with that level of tenasity, he can be effective for a team....no, no...wait, "allstar" jims good dear friend and cowboy fan doesn't like barber, so that means he is a bad player, because the good lord knows fans of teams are always spot on in their assessment of professional talents and skill set...why? because "allstar" jim's dear friend said so...ha ha ha... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 ha ha ha ha...sure "allstar" jim, you're not angry at all...ha ha ha ha... look, if you want to argue that barber is washed up, so be it. the dog thinks it is comical that you can state this as fact because your good friend doesn't like him and because he saw limited time last year behind a better back and a situational player with game breaking ability. both of whom would have impacted jacobs in the same way. we'll see if barber does anything this year. who knows. one thing the dog knows is that you are wrapped painfully tight. and comparing two backs on two different teams is useless when you refuse to consider all other aspects...but no wait, "allstar" jim and his sidekick from his time in kuwait say it is so, and so be it...ha ha ha ha ha... LOL... guess what, I don't need to be angry to call a douche a douche. Just because I don't treat others here like this doesn't mean I'm angry... it's just that I have no respect for you. You're a piece of shit. So when I call you that, it's not b/c I'm angry, it's simply b/c it's true. Please educate us all again on how much better Barber is than Jacobs... you admit you didn't watch enough Cowboys' games to give an informed opinion, but can say with authority that Jacobs is worse than all three of those guys. LOL... go ahead, I don't care what you want to compare... break out the film, break out the stats, I just want you to get hired on as the Eagles' GM... keep going, you're doing great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackStroud Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 As I recall Marion Barber once made the all Madden team as the hardest man to bring down in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 LOL... guess what, I don't need to be angry to call a douche a douche. Just because I don't treat others here like this doesn't mean I'm angry... it's just that I have no respect for you. You're a piece of shit. So when I call you that, it's not b/c I'm angry, it's simply b/c it's true. Please educate us all again on how much better Barber is than Jacobs... you admit you didn't watch enough Cowboys' games to give an informed opinion, but can say with authority that Jacobs is worse than all three of those guys. LOL... go ahead, I don't care what you want to compare... break out the film, break out the stats, I just want you to get hired on as the Eagles' GM... keep going, you're doing great! the dog has always pointed out how overrated jacobs is...the people here who are objective have seen that as well. barber has always run harder than jacobs through the line. that is a fact. jacobs runs hard when he has a hole and a smaller player near him. jacobs is a plodder who thinks he is more than he is. if you ever are able to "allstar" jim, go back and watch him, and watch him from early in his career right through until now - you'll see if you can watch it objectively. start with the 2007 playoff game against dallas to make it easy...use that as step one and then follow jacobs as he tapdances through the rest of his career. as the dog said, if barber is healthy and runs with the level of force he did early on, he can help some team (which by the way was the dog's point from the start...of course, you can't control your blind anger, but again, that is just amusing to the dog). look, the dog didn't start this, it was you who went on a profanity laced tirade just because the dog pointed out that comparing them by the numbers doesn't make sense. straight numbers never tell the whole story, but then, someone with a limited intellect and inability to see anything beyond the black and white such as yourself can't connect the dots. that is ok, the dog is happy to help you. the dog is just amused by your tantrum like responses and your efforts to try and turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 the dog has always pointed out how overrated jacobs is...the people here who are objective have seen that as well. barber has always run harder than jacobs through the line. that is a fact. jacobs runs hard when he has a hole and a smaller player near him. jacobs is a plodder who thinks he is more than he is. if you ever are able to "allstar" jim, go back and watch him, and watch him from early in his career right through until now - you'll see if you can watch it objectively. start with the 2007 playoff game against dallas to make it easy...use that as step one and then follow jacobs as he tapdances through the rest of his career. as the dog said, if barber is healthy and runs with the level of force he did early on, he can help some team (which by the way was the dog's point from the start...of course, you can't control your blind anger, but again, that is just amusing to the dog). look, the dog didn't start this, it was you who went on a profanity laced tirade just because the dog pointed out that comparing them by the numbers doesn't make sense. straight numbers never tell the whole story, but then, someone with a limited intellect and inability to see anything beyond the black and white such as yourself can't connect the dots. that is ok, the dog is happy to help you. the dog is just amused by your tantrum like responses and your efforts to try and turn it around. You are a buffoon... you're telling me to go back and watch Jacobs... hilarious. I watch a LOT of Giants football. Jacobs can tapdance, dart, runover people, sprint, I don't care what... he gets results. Jacobs has had one down year in his career and some labeled him as being done and a tapdancer. Even his down year though was better than most of Marion's seasons... you are a clown and know nothing. I'm not angry at all, you're just a sideshow that intelligent people laugh at. Keep going clown. I've already proven you wrong and yet you continue to defend a ridiculous thesis that Barber is better than Jacobs... It's not even about last year, Barber has NEVER been better than Jacobs. Jacobs is, and has been, the superior running back, you are a clueless idiot. The people of SportsWrath don't agree with you, they think you're a tool, I'm certain of that. I don't even know why you post here. It'd be like me going to a nuclear physics message board, proclaim I know more than anyone else there, and keep coming back again to be mocked/ignored. You're a sideshow clown, Hotdog, it's us laughing at you, jackass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Tiptoer: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81d642c0/Brandon-Jacobs-27-yard-run Tiptoer #2: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ca4fa1/Brandon-Jacobs-39-yard-run Tiptoer #3: http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b332ca/Brandon-Jacobs-TD Tiptoer #4: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ca6782/Brandon-Jacobs-28-yard-TD Tiptoer #5: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ca6782/Brandon-Jacobs-28-yard-TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 Tiptoer #6: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ce293c/Jacobs-goes-on-73-yard-jaunt Tiptoer #7: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ca5083/Jacobs-caps-Giants-opening-drive-with-TD Tiptoer #8: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81b0da17/RB-Jacobs-29-yd-run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksm7 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Tiptoer #6: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ce293c/Jacobs-goes-on-73-yard-jaunt Tiptoer #7: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81ca5083/Jacobs-caps-Giants-opening-drive-with-TD Tiptoer #8: http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/09000d5d81b0da17/RB-Jacobs-29-yd-run wow "allstar" jim...that is an "allstar" performance by you...really, the dog is impressed at your level of committment to this overblown bundle of turds. how big is your library? let's look closely...8 videos clips of your boy. well, really 7 since two are the same play. couple of questions/comments from the dog - did jacobs have any good runs against a team not named the redskins? aside from the one yard TD lean, every other run is a tribute to the o-line. count how many times he is within a defender's reach at anytime in the first 10 yards of the play...the dog will save you the tedious task of using your fingers - the answer is none...hmmm, the dog pointed out how jacobs runs well when he is given a huge hole, and does nothing otherwise...thanks for helping exemplify the point "allstar" jim...you are truly the dog's allstar. now please, be a doll and run and get some more videos. this is truly entertaining. find the ones where jacob actually runs through tacklers that aren't skinny d-backs after a 10 yard running start...thanks kiddo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightFire Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Count how many times he is within a defender's reach at anytime in the first 10 yards of the play...the dog will save you the tedious task of using your fingers - the answer is none...hmmm, the dog pointed out how jacobs runs well when he is given a huge hole, and does nothing otherwise...thanks for helping exemplify the point "allstar" jim...you are truly the dog's allstar. I didn't watch them all but this one was not a huge OLine hole. Tiptoer #2: Tiptoer #2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boohyah Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Marion Barber might help someone, but it won't be a high level of "help" and it won't be with us. If it was it would be 2 steps backwards. Barber looked beat up last year when he played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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