Cowboyz Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I thought this was a nice objective piece by a gints blog. give us something to discuss anyway. Prince or Pauper? Written by Glenn Warciski | 29 April 2011 Did the Giants make a smart move by selecting defensive back Prince Amukamara? Let us take a look at our experts thoughts on Prince Amukamara: Wonder: Brutally hard evaluation. Everything you look for. He'll go top 10 in the draft, but too high for me. Body of Revis but does not transition well from the backpedal to the sprint. Pete: I have problems here. Physical talent. That he did not have any interceptions his senior year really bothers me. Good player cannot recommend him higher. Looking at Wonder's and Pete's draft boards, Prince Amukamara's name is highlighted in red. In both of their vetting of draft prospects, Prince was a bottom five value versus consensus player. In other words, both of our experts believe he is a player they disliked versus consensus. And both graded him as a THREE. A three grade equates to a solid starter. Generally speaking, when both of our experts agree on a player, the confidence in their evaluation is increased. Interestingly, Bill Parcells shares Pete's skepticism about Amukamara. In his Draft Confidential program which aired on ESPN, Parcells mentioned Prince's short arms as a concern. Because he has a short arm span, this was a major reason he did not have any interceptions his senior year. This was corroborated by the Sun Sentinel's analysis of Amukamara. According to the Sun-Sentinel, he has short arms and small hands, which might explain why he didn't record an interception as a senior. Another interesting tidbit from their analysis: Also gets caught with eyes in the backfield too often. Therefore, the selection of Amukamara fits defensive coordinator Perry Fewell's Tampa 2 scheme. The Giants obtained a player who can play off coverage. But remember Fewell's scheme does not work against the top notch quarterbacks. Amukamara may get away with watching a mediocre quarterback's eyes. However, the better quarterbacks (Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady) will not give away any freebies. In summary, the Giants added a player who can help improve their pass defense. But at what cost? Prior to the draft, we at UltimateNYG targeted pass defense, special teams, offensive line, and linebacker as areas of need. Despite having many positions to bolster, a beaming Tom Coughlin called Prince, “clearly the highest-rated player on the board.” Giants GM Jerry Reese added,“It happens like that sometimes in the draft — guys can fall right into your lap, and we think that’s what happened.” Let us hope they are correct. Note- Thanks to GMC for their sponsorship of this blog at the Draft last night. Andy here, my quick takeaway is that those who think we stole the Brink's truck are simply mistaken. Many who worked him out privately passed on him. The Giants did not work him out and took him. That Kiper and Mayock loved the guy and had him in their Top 10 is not the be-all-end-all. Our two draft analysts panned him (well before the draft), so this is as objective as you can possibly get. We had a ranking for him at 28 and 35. Shouldn't that tell you something? He'll be a good player, but don't go thinking this is a home run. For those of you thinking he was a home run, you'll get graded as draft analysts with a "1" elite rating for the player. Our draft analysts are already on record as having him as a '3' solid starter. If he makes it to the pro bowl ('2') it will be a push (without meeting a critical need, i.e. Castonzo at Tackle). If he makes it as a consistent impact player, then he is a "home run." And if he is a solid starter like we project him to be, then this is a very normal and ordinary pick for Round 1, which averages a 3.5. Of course we leave room for our analysts to be wrong. But UltimateNYG's analysts are here for a reason, to separate the facts from the noise. Mel Kiper is, quite frankly, a lot of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. P Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 about his lack of interceptions, after a cb has a great year teams stop throwing at him as often. noone starts to doubt nnamdi asomugha after he only has 1 interception in a year. but like any draft pick you never know for certain how he will turn out, but getting what most considered to be a top ten talent is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 about his lack of interceptions, after a cb has a great year teams stop throwing at him as often. noone starts to doubt nnamdi asomugha after he only has 1 interception in a year. but like any draft pick you never know for certain how he will turn out, but getting what most considered to be a top ten talent is awesome. nnamdi, to be fair, is doing it in the pros we'll see if the prince can do the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 18, 2011 Author Share Posted June 18, 2011 interesting stats amukamara had 13 passes defended in 2010 and came away with zero picks. his counterpart dennard had 11 passes defended and 4 picks. prince was targeted over 50 times in 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFP Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I like the pick....the lack of INTs is troubling, but from all accounts, he is an exceptional talent. If he becomes a solid starter, he's well worth a late 1st round pick. Webster, Thomas, Ross, and this guy, backed by Philips and Assistant GM Rolle....that's quite a secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 19, 2011 Author Share Posted June 19, 2011 Check out amuka's performance vs ncaa's best wr in 2010, justin blackmon (youtube amukamara vs blackmon) Other than blackmon he didnt face another nfl ready wr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Other than blackmon he didnt face another nfl ready wr yea well that is a meaningful statement since rookie WR invariably start and play effectively their rookie years. Criticizing a college player for playing against college players?? That's logical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 yea well that is a meaningful statement since rookie WR invariably start and play effectively their rookie years. Criticizing a college player for playing against college players?? That's logical i don't agree. wr is one of the hardest positions to start a rookie right away. if amukamara's a true elite talent (top ten draft) he should be judged by his performance vs the best not the guy he shut out from western kentucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 i don't agree. wr is one of the hardest positions to start a rookie right away. if amukamara's a true elite talent (top ten draft) he should be judged by his performance vs the best not the guy he shut out from western kentucky. Agreed. So let's see how the guy performs... and what level he reaches ... but not just in year 1. We think we got a steal... I know that because that's what most analysts said... and since I got a different day job, I trust their judgment when it comes to football... besides I feel that pic was more geared towards shutting down your freak WR.. (sorry his name escapes me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K3VIN Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 i don't agree. wr is one of the hardest positions to start a rookie right away. if amukamara's a true elite talent (top ten draft) he should be judged by his performance vs the best not the guy he shut out from western kentucky. Well if you look at that. How did Blackmon do against CBs that where top flight talent, Players in D1 are all have great skills weather they go to A powerhouse or bottom dweller, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 i don't agree. wr is one of the hardest positions to start a rookie right away. thanks for reaffirming my point there pieboy. If "NFL READY WRs" are extremely rare in college Football ( which was actually MY point ), it would seem a very poor choice of metric by which to judge college DBs. You might as well have said that Prince did not defend well against 8 foot tall, 4 armed extra terrestrials while in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 thanks for reaffirming my point there pieboy. If "NFL READY WRs" are extremely rare in college Football ( which was actually MY point ), it would seem a very poor choice of metric by which to judge college DBs. You might as well have said that Prince did not defend well against 8 foot tall, 4 armed extra terrestrials while in college. haha, i wasn't criticizing the guy for NOT playing nfl ready wr's. I"m criticizing for his performance vs the top tier talent in Justin Blackmon. he hardly has any control over his schedule. how ridiculous pieboy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Agreed. So let's see how the guy performs... and what level he reaches ... but not just in year 1. We think we got a steal... I know that because that's what most analysts said... and since I got a different day job, I trust their judgment when it comes to football... besides I feel that pic was more geared towards shutting down your freak WR.. (sorry his name escapes me) dez bryant, coincidentally from same school as blackmon. to be fair to prince, blackmon is by most accounts better than dez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 What exactly is wrong with getting a "solid starter" in the mid/late first round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Well if you look at that. How did Blackmon do against CBs that where top flight talent, Players in D1 are all have great skills weather they go to A powerhouse or bottom dweller, the guy didn't get less than 100 yards in any game, except the one game he missed. scored in every game. scored 20 tds as a wr, plus one rushing, plus one punt ret. he's a beast. prince did hold him to his fewest catches in a game, but blackmon still netted 150+ yds, 1 td, another would-be td turned pass-interference on prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 What exactly is wrong with getting a "solid starter" in the mid/late first round? nothing at all if he's the best player on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nas Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 dez bryant, coincidentally from same school as blackmon. to be fair to prince, blackmon is by most accounts better than dez. Yep.. Dez is a fucking freak of nature. I think the Giants had him in mind 1st when they drafted prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 nothing at all if he's the best player on the board. By who's definition? Evidently he was the BPA according to the Giants, and if he turns out to be a solid starter as your article claims, I don't see where the downside is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 By who's definition? Evidently he was the BPA according to the Giants, and if he turns out to be a solid starter as your article claims, I don't see where the downside is. in this case it would be the consensus of the guys writing the article, gint fans. in any other case, it would be the definition/opinion of the author/speaker. the gints never worked him out, most teams that did passed. the downside is this, if you draft that solid starter at 19, you could be missing out on the perrenial probowler. do you think aaron ross was a solid first round pick, for ex. ofcourse it's all speculation at this point, until he gets on the field. but nothing wrong with speculatin durin the offseason. right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virginia Giant Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 in this case it would be the consensus of the guys writing the article, gint fans. in any other case, it would be the definition/opinion of the author/speaker. the gints never worked him out, most teams that did passed. the downside is this, if you draft that solid starter at 19, you could be missing out on the perrenial probowler. do you think aaron ross was a solid first round pick, for ex. ofcourse it's all speculation at this point, until he gets on the field. but nothing wrong with speculatin durin the offseason. right? Well, no shit. And you could find somebody like Brady in the 6th round or Draft Heath Shuler 3rd overall. Speculation is fine, but when even your opposing view article says he should be a solid starter, I don't see the downside at all. Sure, we could have drafted someone else and they could of ended up being great, or they could have ended up being horrible, but evidently even the fans/experts who don't love the guy still like him enough to label him a solid starter. Well, I mean you do have Parcells in there who thinks his short arms are going to greatly hinder his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 Well, no shit. And you could find somebody like Brady in the 6th round or Draft Heath Shuler 3rd overall. Speculation is fine, but when even your opposing view article says he should be a solid starter, I don't see the downside at all. Sure, we could have drafted someone else and they could of ended up being great, or they could have ended up being horrible, but evidently even the fans/experts who don't love the guy still like him enough to label him a solid starter. Well, I mean you do have Parcells in there who thinks his short arms are going to greatly hinder his career. or ryan leaf 2nd. yep. no shit indeed. the draft is a crapshoot. most teams are drafting for more than 'solid starter' in the first round. the author's believe better players who also fit needs were available, many would agree, and many would disagree. Parcell's is an excellent judge of football talent. He doesn't like prince. Mel Kiper loves prince, and coincidentally also loved Schuler and Leaf. I think i'll go with BP on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treehugger Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think Reese has shown he can handle a draft pretty damn well. I'll trust his evaluation over any blogger's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 I think Reese has shown he can handle a draft pretty damn well. I'll trust his evaluation over any blogger's. Reese's drafts aren't spectacular. maybe above avg. he has as many misses as the next guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hlb37 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 haha, i wasn't criticizing the guy for NOT playing nfl ready wr's. I"m criticizing for his performance vs the top tier talent in Justin Blackmon. he hardly has any control over his schedule. how ridiculous pieboy? LOL If the dude can back peddle as fast as you can he should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboyz Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 LOL If the dude can back peddle as fast as you can he should be fine. right. my point was the same from first to last post judge him vs top tier talent, in this case blackmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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