xxi-xxv Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Al East 1)Yankees, good pitching and good backup options in Hughes(even though he is still not most teams ace) 2)Tampa(WC) could be better than 08 and not win the div 3)Red Sox crash and burn this year 4)Blue Jays mediocrity at its best 5)Orioles until Angelos sells this franchise is a joke Al Central 1)Indians big rebound 2)Twins always compete 3)White Sox 4)Tigers 5)Royals Al West 1)Angels, still very good 2)Rangers 3)A's 4)Mariners NL East 1)Phillies as football Giant fans said last year, champs until proven otherwise. 2)Braves yup, the surprise of the NL East(WC) 3)Mets, time to back the truck up after 09 4)Marlins 5)Nats Nl central 1)Cubs 2)Reds, no I am not crazy 3)Cards 4)Brewers 5)Astros 6)Pirates NL West 1)Dodgers 85 wins wins the division 2)Giants 83 wins finishes 2nd 3)Padres 83 wins but more losses to the Giants finishes 3rd 4)D Backs 80 wins finishes last 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The Mets are pathetic. It's hard to expect them to win anything significant with four or maybe five (depending on which Carlos Delgado shows up) replacement level players in the line-up. And I'm not sure K-Rod/Putz will make nearly as much of a difference as they are expected to make. The back end of their rotation involves John Maine (who seemignly can't stay healthy anymore), Oliver Perez (who has a career WHIP of 1.43), and Livan Hernadez (who is flat out terrible). They've also collapsed each of the last two seasons. But hey, new stadium. Get excited! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 xxi, picking the Reds to finish second isn't crazy at all. They got some talented up-and-coming hitters to go with a quietly solid rotation (esp. if Harang and Arroyo have bounce back years). I'd bet anything the Rays finish with more wins than the Yankees. The Rays have an excellent team from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 No he wouldn't...... The Yankees have to be kicking themselves for not trading Hughes for Santana when they had the chance. I'll never understand why big-market teams get so protective of their prospects when they have a chance to trade for proven star performers in their prime. It's like when the Mets refused to give-up Milledge when they allegedly could have dealt him for Alfonso Soriano or Manny Ramirez. He was so talented that they ended up dealing him for Ryan Church and Brian Schndeider -- two guys that suck. It sure would be nice to have Jason Bay right now. And it definitely would have been nice to have Manny during the strecth run last season. But hey, at least we were able to miss the playoffs, hold onto Fernando Martinez (who may or may not turn out good), and enter '09 with the worst starting corner OFs in baseball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I never said that Hughes would be the ace of MOST teams staffs, I said many and when I say many I mean about 10. Washington Kansas City Oakland Texas LAD Minnesota Pittsburgh Colorado St. Louis Milwaukee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The Yankees have to be kicking themselves for not trading Hughes for Santana when they had the chance. I'll never understand why big-market teams get so protective of their prospects when they have a chance to trade for proven star performers in their prime. It's like when the Mets refused to give-up Milledge when they allegedly could have dealt him for Alfonso Soriano or Manny Ramirez. He was so talented that they ended up dealing him for Ryan Church and Brian Schndeider -- two guys that suck. It sure would be nice to have Jason Bay right now. And it definitely would have been nice to have Manny during the strecth run last season. But hey, at least we were able to miss the playoffs, hold onto Fernando Martinez (who may or may not turn out good), and enter '09 with the worst starting corner OFs in baseball... I agree with you. And as for the Milledge trade..if you were going to trade him for 2 players that are the definition of mediocre...why not just keep him? I will never, ever understand that transaction. As a Mets fan and Mets employee, I feel like I've been hearing about Martinez for about 10 years now and I feel he will be just like every other hotshot, "can't miss" Mets outfield prospect. I also think Daniel Murphy will surprise alot of people too, but he will be moved to 1st base in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 I never said that Hughes would be the ace of MOST teams staffs, I said many and when I say many I mean about 10. Washington Kansas City--------- Zach Greinke? Oakland Texas LAD------------------ Chad Billingsley? Minnesota----------- Liriano anyone? Pittsburgh Colorado St. Louis-------------- Chris Carpenter? Milwaukee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 How about we wait for Hughes to legitimize himself as a viable member of a five-man rotation before we declare him better than -- or even remotely comparable to -- guys like Chad Billingsley, Adam Wainwright, Zack Grienke, or Gil Meche. The Twins have at least three starting pitchers that are more accomplished at the big league level than Hughes. And even if he pans out, I sincerely doubt he'll be better than Liriano. Even guys like John Lannan, Brad Penny, Justin Duchscherer, Paul Maholm, Ubaldo Jimenez, Aaron Cook, and Yovani Gallardo deserve the edge over Hughes because they've all have at least some modicum of sustained success at the big league level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 How about we wait for Hughes to legitimize himself as a viable member of a five-man rotation before we declare him better than -- or even remotely comparable to -- guys like Chad Billingsley, Adam Wainwright, Zack Grienke, or Gil Meche. The Twins have at least three starting pitchers that are more accomplished at the big league level than Hughes. And even if he pans out, I sincerely doubt he'll be better than Liriano. Even guys like John Lannan, Brad Penny, Justin Duchscherer, Paul Maholm, Ubaldo Jimenez, Aaron Cook, and Yovani Gallardo deserve the edge over Hughes because they've all have at least some modicum of sustained success at the big league level... Wait...you mean that you actually have to get past 5 innings to be a good pitcher?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 hughes has shown he can be dominant at the ml level. he's just had some really bad luck with freak injuries. when he's been healthy, he's been very good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 carpenter hasnt pitched in the big leagues in almost 3 years. Grienke has yet to come into his own, but he could be great Billingsly is good, but I think Hughes is better...plus I really cant give much credit to a pitcher in that division unless he completley dominates like webb, lincecum, cain ect. Liriano is a question mark, wasnt he sent down last year before his injury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 He was sent down because of that and the fact that Minnesota kept him down longer so they can keep him for one more year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 He was sent down because of that and the fact that Minnesota kept him down longer so they can keep him for one more year. that and he was downright awful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 The Yankees have to be kicking themselves for not trading Hughes for Santana when they had the chance. I'll never understand why big-market teams get so protective of their prospects when they have a chance to trade for proven star performers in their prime. It's like when the Mets refused to give-up Milledge when they allegedly could have dealt him for Alfonso Soriano or Manny Ramirez. He was so talented that they ended up dealing him for Ryan Church and Brian Schndeider -- two guys that suck. It sure would be nice to have Jason Bay right now. And it definitely would have been nice to have Manny during the strecth run last season. But hey, at least we were able to miss the playoffs, hold onto Fernando Martinez (who may or may not turn out good), and enter '09 with the worst starting corner OFs in baseball... agreed, the braves are going to be kicking themselves too for refusing to include tommy hanson for a 26 year old cy young winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 carpenter hasnt pitched in the big leagues in almost 3 years. Grienke has yet to come into his own, but he could be great Billingsly is good, but I think Hughes is better...plus I really cant give much credit to a pitcher in that division unless he completley dominates like webb, lincecum, cain ect. Liriano is a question mark, wasnt he sent down last year before his injury? I won't argue on Carpenter's behalf. You have to be healthy even to pitch to be considered a useful pitcher; maybe he has a strong comeback season this year. But I think his teammate, Adam Wainwright is quite good and certainly better than Hughes right now. Same with Grienke, who had a really strong effort in '08. 202 IP, 183 Ks, 3.47 ERA, 1.28 WHIP -- almost identical numbers to the "dominant" Brandon Webb. Hughes' career numbers: 106 IP, 81K/44BB, 5.15 ERA, 1.43 WHIP. He regressed from '07 to '08, although you could attribute that to injury. Nonetheless, he might become a good MLB pitcher. But he isn't right now, and you can't reasonably claim that he's presently better than pitchers who have put together productive, complete seasons at the professional level. He has more ability, sure. But he's not better than the aforementioned until he proves it over the course of a full season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 that and he was downright awful Before he was sent down, yes he was. When he was recalled he was a man possessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorfTVP Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 carpenter hasnt pitched in the big leagues in almost 3 years. Grienke has yet to come into his own, but he could be great Billingsly is good, but I think Hughes is better...plus I really cant give much credit to a pitcher in that division unless he completley dominates like webb, lincecum, cain ect. Liriano is a question mark, wasnt he sent down last year before his injury? Greinke's yet to come into his own? I guess you've missed the entire 2008 season then. The dude finally overcame all the mental handicaps which were holding him back and was able to put up a 13-10 record with a 3.47 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, and 183 Ks to 65 BBs in 202.1 IP. Billingsley was one of the best SP in the game last year, and although his walk troubles are troublesome, the man's proven himself. I'd consider a 3.14 ERA completely dominating, especially considering the fact that it bests Webb and Cain. Lincecum's in a world of his own. I would also match up Yovani Gallardo, the de facto ace of the Brewers, next to Philip Hughes any day. Hughes has 106 ML innings under his belt and has mustered a 5.15 ERA. Gallardo, in turn, has managed a 3.35 ERA in 134 big league innings. These guys are actually relatively comparable. But seriously, Hughes has yet to prove anything. Once the Yankees' LACK of depth in the rotation shows itself, we'll see how he performs. But right now, Phil Hughes is still EQUAL to Clay Buchholz, he of the 98.2 ML IP and 5.56 ERA. Remember all the arguments and comparisons between the two just last year? I'm not trying to bash you or Hughes in general, just trying to say that you gotta prove yourself before you can be the Ace of a third of the teams in baseball. I was writing a full list but my computer died and I don't wanna write it again. Then again... AL East Red Sox, Rays, Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays - I don't like the Yankees' lack of depth and I expect their age to be a hindrance. The Red Sox have depth, and although their offense isn't spectacular, they possibly have the deepest pitching staff in all of baseball. The Rays shored up their weaknesses (Pat Burrell, anyone?) and I'm scared shitless by BJ Upton after the ALCS. Their rotation still has to prove itself, and Kazmir has to stay healthy, but Shields is the real deal. I think the Blue Jays rotation, or lack thereof after Halladay, will prove its undoing and Baltimore, behind some good young players (Markakis, Jones, Wieters (pronounced White Ears)) will surpass the Jays. AL Central Twins, White Sox, Tigers, Indians, Royals - The Twins, remarkably, had the fourth best offense in baseball last year and should do fine, especially with that strong yet unheralded rotation. The White Sox are well rounded. The Tigers' rotation scares me, especially with Verlander and Bonderman. Although Miguel Cabrera is a monster. The Indians have to do too much mixing and matching for me to be too confident, and although I always hope for the Royals, this isn't the year they climb up. AL West Rangers, Angels, As, Mariners - No confidence in the Mariners, but there's no shame in that. A lot depends on where Brandon Morrow goes, rotation or closer. I'm not just appealing to VG here, but the Rangers have got to go somewhere eventually. With the league's best offense and an unending fount of young pitchers coming in, I think there is a lot of buzz and excitement around these guys. As far as the Angels, one can never count them out, but they made some really bad moves with Hunter and Matthews. Vlad just isn't as scary anymore...although Abreu should do wonders for them. They'll be at the top all season long. The A's always have promise but so long as they're taking the three run homer approach, they'll go nowhere. NL East Phillies, Mets, Braves, Marlins, Nationals - Pretty straightforward, you can't go wrong with the defending champs. As wary as I am about the Mets rotation, the fact that the bullpen has hopefully been figured out should do wonders. And to that remark about how few everyday players the Mets have, those that they do have are among the league's best (Reyes, Wright, Beltran) along with the ever-godlike Santana. The Braves, this is a different year for them, and I won't know anything until I see them. Marlins, Nationals...the Marlins actually always find a way to compete despite Loria's affinity for ass fucking his team, so they'll be in the mix. The Nationals. Need I say more? NL Central Cubs, Reds, Cardinals, Brewers, Astros, Pirates - Worried about Zambrano, but the Cubs still seem to be cream of the crop. The Reds are young, exciting, and have a sneakily good rotation. As far as their offense goes, let the homers fly. The Cardinals, Brewers, and Astros all have worrisome rotations, despite having some of the best players in the game (Pujols, Braun, Berkman). Astros did next to nothing this offseason. The Pirates, well, it's always exciting to see ex-Red Sox prospects such as Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss do their best to blossom. NL West Dodgers, Giants, Diamondbacks, Rockies, Padres - Dodgers seem the most...least sucky of an unappealing group. The west does have some amazing pitchers though, many of whom are in the Giants rotation. The offense is FINALLY getting younger (Sandoval, anyone?) and they have some legs to take advantage of their big home park. The Diamondbacks still have that rotation and a younger offense while the Rockies have a rotation that's better than expected. Still, I only put them above the Padres because at least they have some semblance of an offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 the giants offense is no better than the padres (bengie molina is still batting fourth right?), and lincecum is great and cain is solid but i'd love to hear who these other 3 mystery guys are that make up the 'great' rotation i keep hearing about. sanchez has talent but his road numbers suck and im not sold on rj. and no one in that division except the dodgers has an adrian gonzalez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 the giants offense is no better than the padres (bengie molina is still batting fourth right?), and lincecum is great and cain is solid but i'd love to hear who these other 3 mystery guys are that make up the 'great' rotation i keep hearing about. sanchez has talent but his road numbers suck and im not sold on rj. and no one in that division except the dodgers has an adrian gonzalez Dude, they have Barry Zito! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 29, 2009 Share Posted March 29, 2009 i think zito is going to have a goo dyear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Red Sox, Rays, Yankees, Orioles, Blue Jays - I don't like the Yankees' lack of depth I dont understand "The Yankees dont have depth" thing. Please explain..surely you cant be serious if you think a team not having good back up infielders will be the cause of their demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LorfTVP Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I dont understand "The Yankees dont have depth" thing. Please explain..surely you cant be serious if you think a team not having good back up infielders will be the cause of their demise. Maybe they have average depth...but by that I mean I don't like their age and how they'd use said depth to fill in holes. We saw what a lack of depth did to the Yankees last season and I'm one of those guys that thinks that you've basically been replacing lost production. Your rotation is strong though, I'm not a believer that Burnett will crack, Wang was starting to strike people out last year...Pettite. Eh, he has experience running the gauntlet. But over half your offense is on the wrong side of 30 and you really don't have too many options if Jeter gets injured or if Damon smashes his skull into Damian Jackson's again (Ooh, I feel bad talking about that). Plus there's the Yankees lack of defense. Moving Damon to left should help, plus you have speed in Gardner in CF now. You've added a GG winner at 1st. Plus they're still all so gray and corporate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakeMeSomeFoodHo Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Maybe they have average depth...but by that I mean I don't like their age and how they'd use said depth to fill in holes. We saw what a lack of depth did to the Yankees last season and I'm one of those guys that thinks that you've basically been replacing lost production. Your rotation is strong though, I'm not a believer that Burnett will crack, Wang was starting to strike people out last year...Pettite. Eh, he has experience running the gauntlet. But over half your offense is on the wrong side of 30 and you really don't have too many options if Jeter gets injured or if Damon smashes his skull into Damian Jackson's again (Ooh, I feel bad talking about that). Plus there's the Yankees lack of defense. Moving Damon to left should help, plus you have speed in Gardner in CF now. You've added a GG winner at 1st. Plus they're still all so gray and corporate. Lorf, the same can be said for every team. no team has all star back ups. What the Yankees have now is pitching depth. If they had pitching depth last year they would have made the playoffs. it was the injuries /ineffectiveness to the pitching staff that was their demise last year, not the injuries to the position players. Sure losing A-Rod for a month hurt and losing Matsui and Posada for almost the full year was bad...but the yankees still won 89 games with 2 guys in their roatation with mid 5 ERA's and an injured Pettite pitching hurt down the stretch. If Wang didnt get hurt last year, the yankees would have made the playoffs even with the injuires to their position players...Ponson and Rasner combined for nearly 20 loses. As I made a point in another thread, the yankees defense is much better this year and nnot early as bad as people think..Besides RF and SS, the yankees are good defensively. Should Damon get hurt, they have swisher for left. Outfield depth is not their problem. Its infield depth and as I said, no team could replace a derek jeter with a bench player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fringe Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 i think zito is going to have a goo dyear i think you're smoking crack again. if he is planning a great year, he hasn't shown it in the spring . the unit has shown some rebirth but i see the esteemed padre lover's point. he failed to mention, however, that we do have a much better pen than last year so that should help cain keep his wins. hitting is still a question mark but if freddy lewis and kung fu panda (sandoval) deliver on the promise they showed last year, it could get interesting. i predict 80+ wins for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditto Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 i predict 80+ wins for this team. That ought to get you to the playoffs in that div. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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