The Un-George Young Super Bowl

[JMFP]

When I read this article, I thank God that Jerry Reese is the GM today. And for all the (fading) Accorsi bashing, give him credit for being a guy who understand that Belichick was head-coaching material.

 

Young deserves credit for bringing in Perkins and then promoting Parcells. But still, the more that time goes on, the dimmer George Young's legacy becomes, especially considering what he accomplished after Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin departed.....nothing but busted drafts and wasted seasons.

 

This is pure conjecture on my part, but I'd bet the ranch that the only reason Young didn't fire Parcells after that 3-12-1 season was because Wellington Mara probably blocked it, especially given that both of Parcells' parents had died that season. I couldn't see the Mara brothers allowing such a cold-blooded move.

 

...The most embarrassing entry on his resume, until SpyGate, is that former Giants GM George Young designated Ray Handley - Ray Handley - instead of Belichick as the eventual successor to Bill Parcells long before Belichick left for Cleveland.

 

Now that Belichick has a chance to win his fourth Super Bowl with New England and Handley lasted two tumultuous years following Parcells, it's almost inconceivable what happened.

 

"I don't know why," one Giants insider said. "George had his mind made up. You have to understand, George was a cerebral guy. Ray Handley was a cerebral guy. There is no use dragging that up."

 

Belichick grew up as a coach with the Giants as Parcells' defensive genius. Young deserves credit for changing the culture of the Giants in 1979 when he hired Ray Perkins and then promoted Parcells when Perkins went to Alabama after the 1982 season. But Handley over Belichick?

 

Giants co-owner John Mara, who joined the team full-time right after Belichick left for Cleveland following the Super Bowl 17 years ago, said he was not aware that Young wanted Handley over Belichick, but acknowledged, "I know George had some issues with Belichick."

 

There was increasing speculation that Parcells was preparing to step down. He and Young never patched up their relationship after Young nearly fired Parcells and hired Howard Schnellenberger after Parcells went 3-12-1 in his first season, 1983. Both of Parcells' parents died during that season and Young was concerned that Parcells was overwhelmed.

 

It was common knowledge around the Giants during the 1990 season that Handley, who was Parcells' running backs coach and clock management guru, was going to be Young's choice over Belichick and Tom Coughlin, who was in his third year as the Giants' receivers coach. Belichick and Coughlin have that in common besides meeting in the Super Bowl on Sunday.

 

"To comment on what George's thinking was is really just conjecture," the insider said.

 

So, when Boston College wanted Coughlin as the '90 season came to a close, the Giants didn't stop him, although he remained through the Super Bowl. And when it became evident the Browns were going to hire Belichick immediately after the Super Bowl, Young did not step in to ask him to wait out Parcells, whose future was the talk of Super Bowl week in Tampa.

 

Parcells didn't do the Giants any favors by waiting until May 15, 1991, to resign, more than 3-1/2 months after the Super Bowl. Although he did not say it at the time, Parcells later revealed that heart problems were the reason he left. Parcells took Young off the hook because Belichick and Coughlin were already gone by the time he quit, clearing the way for Young to hire Handley without much second-guessing.

 

Young, who died in 2001 after retiring following the 1997 season, clearly was not a big fan of Belichick. He was not thrilled with Belichick's communication skills and didn't think he was the right fit. It's interesting that Young's protégé, Ernie Accorsi, who was then the Browns' GM, recommended to Art Modell that he hire Belichick. Handley was such a disaster the players staged a mutiny and Young had no choice but to fire him after two seasons.

....

 

Link to full article

[RandolphScott]

Huh. Parcells left the team in May, which by then I'm pretty sure

Belicheck left for Cleveland. Parcells was the one who fucked us, not

George Young.

 

Oh and Bill Belicheck needs Tom Brady more than Tom Brady needs

Bill Belicheck.

[JMFP]

Huh. Parcells left the team in May, which by then I'm pretty sure

Belicheck left for Cleveland. Parcells was the one who fucked us, not

George Young.

 

Oh and Bill Belicheck needs Tom Brady more than Tom Brady needs

Bill Belicheck.

 

So George Young pre-selects Handley over Belichick and Coughlin and you think the fault lies with the guy with a heart problem?

[RandolphScott]

So George Young pre-selects Handley over Belichick and Coughlin and you think the fault lies with the guy with a heart problem?

 

 

No, but I could care less now. Water under the bridge now.

[GreyHoodie]

Oh and Bill Belicheck needs Tom Brady more than Tom Brady needs

Bill Belicheck.

 

Today that is true. If Belichick was to retire, Tom would thrive under any head coach.

 

But if it was not for BB, nobody would have ever heard of Tom.

 

BB wanted to draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft. Kraft blocked that, but eventually relented late in the 6th round to keep his new head coach from going nuts.

 

BB wanted to trade Bledsoe at the start of 2001 and start Tom Brady. Kraft went insane at that idea.

 

When Bledsoe was cleared to return, Kraft wanted BB to bench Brady, but relented after a huge fight with BB.

 

Kraft hasn't question BB since.

 

[RandolphScott]

Today that is true. If Belichick was to retire, Tom would thrive under any head coach.

 

But if it was not for BB, nobody would have ever heard of Tom.

 

BB wanted to draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft. Kraft blocked that, but eventually relented late in the 6th round to keep his new head coach from going nuts.

 

BB wanted to trade Bledsoe at the start of 2001 and start Tom Brady. Kraft went insane at that idea.

 

When Bledsoe was cleared to return, Kraft wanted BB to bench Brady, but relented after a huge fight with BB.

 

Kraft hasn't question BB since.

 

 

I didn't know all of that, thanks for the info. But facts are facts, Belicheck isn't the

same coach he was when he coached the Browns. Browns fans went bezerk when

they found out Belicheck released Bernie Kosar, he was a hometown hero. I have no

doubt that alot of Pats fans disliked Bledsoe as their quarterback.

 

My question is this...what if Belicheck planed on all these moves and failed?

He would have followed Parcells every where, he would have been in Dallas.

 

As I said before, all of this is water under the bridge now. That being said, I'm sure

Tom has a room in his house dedicated to Allister Crowley.

[boohyah]

I didn't know all of that, thanks for the info. But facts are facts, Belicheck isn't the

same coach he was when he coached the Browns. Browns fans went bezerk when

they found out Belicheck released Bernie Kosar, he was a hometown hero. I have no

doubt that alot of Pats fans disliked Bledsoe as their quarterback.

 

My question is this...what if Belicheck planed on all these moves and failed?

He would have followed Parcells every where, he would have been in Dallas.

 

As I said before, all of this is water under the bridge now. That being said, I'm sure

Tom has a room in his house dedicated to Allister Crowley.

 

 

Kraft as an owner, Scott Pioli as a GM and Brady as a QB, IMO are superior than Bellichek is as a coach. In fact Bellicheck's best move as a coach was not benching Brady instead of Bledsoe.

 

Bellicheck gets all the credit, but when a GM gets Wes Welker and Randy Moss for draft picks, that's something.

[GreyHoodie]

I didn't know all of that, thanks for the info. But facts are facts, Belicheck isn't the

same coach he was when he coached the Browns. Browns fans went bezerk when

they found out Belicheck released Bernie Kosar, he was a hometown hero. I have no

doubt that alot of Pats fans disliked Bledsoe as their quarterback.

 

My question is this...what if Belicheck planed on all these moves and failed?

He would have followed Parcells every where, he would have been in Dallas.

 

 

Belichick spend most a lot of his time in Cleveland fighting with owner. Kosar was done and it was time to bring in a new QB. I tend to think if he was allowed to run the show in Cleveland he would have been a successful coach there.

 

And at the time, keeping in Brady was very unpopular with the fan base. Bledsoe was loved by the fans. Lots of callers on the talk radio shows were calling for Kraft to fire Belichick and put Bledsoe back in. There were some Brady supporters, but most of the fan base supported Bledsoe. Some even after the SB thought that the Pats should trade the rookie with one great season and keep the pro-bowler as the starter the next year.

 

Also keep in mind Parcells record without Belichick is not very impressive. And those teams were always teams that won on defense not offense.

 

After the SB in 2001, Kraft realized that the best thing he could do is just stay out of Bill's way, sit in his box, get drunk, and enjoy the game.

 

I do agree, that Brady is the player in which the team is built and much of BB's success comes from having one of the greatest QB's ever. But 32 teams skipped on Brady 6 times. BB could saw something nobody else did. BB can keep bad asses like Moss and Harrison who could be a cancer anywhere else inline and productive. BB can get a 14-0 team to focus and take seriously the Dolphins. He is huge part of the Patriots success, and is probably a big reason the Giants got their two rings.

[RandolphScott]

Belichick spend most a lot of his time in Cleveland fighting with owner. Kosar was done and it was time to bring in a new QB. I tend to think if he was allowed to run the show in Cleveland he would have been a successful coach there.

 

And at the time, keeping in Brady was very unpopular with the fan base. Bledsoe was loved by the fans. Lots of callers on the talk radio shows were calling for Kraft to fire Belichick and put Bledsoe back in. There were some Brady supporters, but most of the fan base supported Bledsoe. Some even after the SB thought that the Pats should trade the rookie with one great season and keep the pro-bowler as the starter the next year.

 

Also keep in mind Parcells record without Belichick is not very impressive. And those teams were always teams that won on defense not offense.

 

After the SB in 2001, Kraft realized that the best thing he could do is just stay out of Bill's way, sit in his box, get drunk, and enjoy the game.

 

 

I'm actually very surprised at that, I would have assumed that many fans

disliked Bledsoe cause he didn't make very good decisions and the statue of

liberty could be him in the 40 yard dash. I will give that without Belicheck, Parcells

isn't nearly as good..but he builds a winner everywhere he goes or atleast the foundation.

 

I hope you stay after the Superbowl Hoodie, you're a smart guy.

Just don't open threads made by "Daynefornogain" unless you want his

adventures of shitting his pants.

[Lubeck]

I hope you stay after the Superbowl Hoodie, you're a smart guy.

Just don't open threads made by "Daynefornogain" unless you want his

adventures of shitting his pants.

 

Those are awesome stories that always make me laugh.

 

And I agree, you should stick around Hoodie you know your game and you show respect.

[Sephiroth]

Don't forget too... the year Bledsoe was traded, he put up MONSTER numbers for the first half of the season in Buffalo, while Brady quietly put up workmanlike numbers. I remember there was a lot of talk about the "Patriots trading the wrong quarterback" back then.

 

 

[GreyHoodie]

Those are awesome stories that always make me laugh.

 

And I agree, you should stick around Hoodie you know your game and you show respect.

 

Thanks, I might. I prefer discussing football with fans of other teams. I mean how may Brady is better than Manning (Peyton) threads does one need?

 

And different perspectives are interesting to read. Most of the folks on this board treat others with respect without heavy handed mods.

 

In my opinion this is one of the better boards I have visited.

[US Patriot]

Belichick spend most a lot of his time in Cleveland fighting with owner. Kosar was done and it was time to bring in a new QB. I tend to think if he was allowed to run the show in Cleveland he would have been a successful coach there.

 

And at the time, keeping in Brady was very unpopular with the fan base. Bledsoe was loved by the fans. Lots of callers on the talk radio shows were calling for Kraft to fire Belichick and put Bledsoe back in. There were some Brady supporters, but most of the fan base supported Bledsoe. Some even after the SB thought that the Pats should trade the rookie with one great season and keep the pro-bowler as the starter the next year.

 

Also keep in mind Parcells record without Belichick is not very impressive. And those teams were always teams that won on defense not offense.

 

After the SB in 2001, Kraft realized that the best thing he could do is just stay out of Bill's way, sit in his box, get drunk, and enjoy the game.

 

I do agree, that Brady is the player in which the team is built and much of BB's success comes from having one of the greatest QB's ever. But 32 teams skipped on Brady 6 times. BB could saw something nobody else did. BB can keep bad asses like Moss and Harrison who could be a cancer anywhere else inline and productive. BB can get a 14-0 team to focus and take seriously the Dolphins. He is huge part of the Patriots success, and is probably a big reason the Giants got their two rings.

TRUE - TRUE- TRUE

 

[boohyah]

Those are awesome stories that always make me laugh.

 

And I agree, you should stick around Hoodie you know your game and you show respect.

 

 

I agree, Hoodie should stick around in this hood.

[Lubeck]

In my opinion this is one of the better boards I have visited.

 

Spread that info and hopefully we can get an even more diverse conversation.

[gateb]

Today that is true. If Belichick was to retire, Tom would thrive under any head coach.

 

But if it was not for BB, Mo Lewis nobody would have ever heard of Tom.

 

BB wanted to draft him in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft. Kraft blocked that, but eventually relented late in the 6th round to keep his new head coach from going nuts.

 

BB wanted to trade Bledsoe at the start of 2001 and start Tom Brady. Kraft went insane at that idea.

 

When Bledsoe was cleared to return, Kraft wanted BB to bench Brady, but relented after a huge fight with BB.

 

Kraft hasn't question BB since.

Fixed.

[xxi-xxv]

Couple of things about all this.

 

Heard today on Sirius that in 2000, the Pats, with that 6th round 199th pick had 2 Qb's in mind. Tim Rattay and Tom Brady, they flipped a coin and Brady was the guy.(Not sure if thats true)

 

Do not discount Belichick in the personnel moves, Pioli is not the GM,its why he is always rumored to be a GM somewhere else as he could easily leave with no compensation as its always a promotion, not a lateral move. I grew up about 3/4 of a mile from Pioli(he is 11 years older) and many of the old people that still live in the hood speak to his parents. He just loves what he does with the Pats so much and he loved working with BB(ironic since he is Parcells' son in law).

 

George Young is positively to blame for the Handley mess. He never wanted BB and in fact did not like the man. Handley was such a disaster and it was a precursor to an extremely poor ending to the GY era, as after that SB his drafts, free agent moves and handling of the cap was as bad as it gets. Like someone said, water under the bridge now, but you listen to Carl Banks, 17 years later and he will tell you BB would have milked at least a few more playoff appearances out of thet group in 91 92 and 93(as Reeves did).

[RandolphScott]

Couple of things about all this.

 

Heard today on Sirius that in 2000, the Pats, with that 6th round 199th pick had 2 Qb's in mind. Tim Rattay and Tom Brady, they flipped a coin and Brady was the guy.(Not sure if thats true)

 

Do not discount Belichick in the personnel moves, Pioli is not the GM,its why he is always rumored to be a GM somewhere else as he could easily leave with no compensation as its always a promotion, not a lateral move. I grew up about 3/4 of a mile from Pioli(he is 11 years older) and many of the old people that still live in the hood speak to his parents. He just loves what he does with the Pats so much and he loved working with BB(ironic since he is Parcells' son in law).

 

George Young is positively to blame for the Handley mess. He never wanted BB and in fact did not like the man. Handley was such a disaster and it was a precursor to an extremely poor ending to the GY era, as after that SB his drafts, free agent moves and handling of the cap was as bad as it gets. Like someone said, water under the bridge now, but you listen to Carl Banks, 17 years later and he will tell you BB would have milked at least a few more playoff appearances out of thet group in 91 92 and 93(as Reeves did).

 

 

It was in Taylor's latest book "I think the hiring of Ray Handley put the organization

back atleast a 100 years."

 

[JMFP]

Couple of things about all this.

 

Heard today on Sirius that in 2000, the Pats, with that 6th round 199th pick had 2 Qb's in mind. Tim Rattay and Tom Brady, they flipped a coin and Brady was the guy.(Not sure if thats true)

 

Do not discount Belichick in the personnel moves, Pioli is not the GM,its why he is always rumored to be a GM somewhere else as he could easily leave with no compensation as its always a promotion, not a lateral move. I grew up about 3/4 of a mile from Pioli(he is 11 years older) and many of the old people that still live in the hood speak to his parents. He just loves what he does with the Pats so much and he loved working with BB(ironic since he is Parcells' son in law).

 

George Young is positively to blame for the Handley mess. He never wanted BB and in fact did not like the man. Handley was such a disaster and it was a precursor to an extremely poor ending to the GY era, as after that SB his drafts, free agent moves and handling of the cap was as bad as it gets. Like someone said, water under the bridge now, but you listen to Carl Banks, 17 years later and he will tell you BB would have milked at least a few more playoff appearances out of thet group in 91 92 and 93(as Reeves did).

 

Not only did Young completely mishandle the post-Parcells transition, and numerous drafts, but he was too egotistical and stubborn to correct his mistakes. It's been widely reported that Parcells desperately wanted to rejoin the Giants, and was repeatedly rejected, all because of Young's stubborness.

 

Personally, I don't think it's water under the bridge at this point. In fact, George Young's two mistakes are standing on the proverbial bridge right now, and one of them - Belichick or Coughlin - is going to land in the water next Sunday.

 

If the Giants win, then credit Accorsi and Reese for correcting George Young's screw up.

 

But if Belichick wins Super Bowl #4 and makes history at the expense of the Giants, the magnitude of Young's error will be driven home like a knife in my gut.

[RandolphScott]

Not only did Young completely mishandle the post-Parcells transition, and numerous drafts, but he was too egotistical and stubborn to correct his mistakes. It's been widely reported that Parcells desperately wanted to rejoin the Giants, and was repeatedly rejected, all because of Young's stubborness.

Personally, I don't think it's water under the bridge at this point. In fact, George Young's two mistakes are standing on the proverbial bridge right now, and one of them - Belichick or Coughlin - is going to land in the water next Sunday.

 

If the Giants win, then credit Accorsi and Reese for correcting George Young's screw up.

 

But if Belichick wins Super Bowl #4 and makes history at the expense of the Giants, the magnitude of Young's error will be driven home like a knife in my gut.

 

 

Now that is true. It was in the book "GM" with Ernie Accorsi. The Giants would have had

to give alot to the Pats for compensation but Parcells would have been coach. Young talked

Tisch out of hiring Parcells and was working on Mara. Eventually Mara said go ahead and hire

Parcells, but Young had already hired Fassel.

[Virginia Giant]

Thanks, I might. I prefer discussing football with fans of other teams. I mean how may Brady is better than Manning (Peyton) threads does one need?

 

And different perspectives are interesting to read. Most of the folks on this board treat others with respect without heavy handed mods.

 

In my opinion this is one of the better boards I have visited.

Our Mods are assholes, they are just so frightened of me and Boohyah that they stay out of the way.

[TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt]

The worst thing the Giants Organization ever did under Young was when they forced Reeves to be their (e.g. Young's) hatchet man and destroy/blow off Simms last productive year or two. He was treated shamefully by Young......and for what? Some talent less asshole from Duke that no one had ever heard of before he was picked by Young. That pile of human garbage known as/is Dave Brown. Young was more of a hissy little bitch than some 16 year divas from the local high school.

[RandolphScott]

The worst thing the Giants Organization ever did under Young was when they forced Reeves to be their (e.g. Young's) hatchet man and destroy/blow off Simms last productive year or two. He was treated shamefully by Young......and for what? Some talent less asshole from Duke that no one had ever heard of before he was picked by Young. That pile of human garbage known as/is Dave Brown. Young was more of a hissy little bitch than some 16 year divas from the local high school.

 

 

 

Easy on the Dave Brown. He and Ray Handley should be the two people

"who should remain nameless" When I hear Dave Brown's name I think

my father and I start to shake uncontrollably.

[Virginia Giant]

Easy on the Dave Brown. He and Ray Handley should be the two people

"who should remain nameless" When I hear Dave Brown's name I think

my father and I start to shake uncontrollably.

When I hear the name Dave Brown I think of that Cowboys game where he was running and lowered his shoulder in to Deon Sanders, then starts dancing or trying to imitate Deon. Later he was interviewed or someone was and his mom had called ater the game asking if he hurt himself on that play and thats why he was walking funny. :lol:

[JMFP]

The worst thing the Giants Organization ever did under Young was when they forced Reeves to be their (e.g. Young's) hatchet man and destroy/blow off Simms last productive year or two. He was treated shamefully by Young......and for what? Some talent less asshole from Duke that no one had ever heard of before he was picked by Young. That pile of human garbage known as/is Dave Brown. Young was more of a hissy little bitch than some 16 year divas from the local high school.

 

Shame on me for forgetting that. You are totally right - the way they kicked Simms to the curb was a complete fucking disgrace. And the way Simms handled it speaks volumes about what a class act Phil is.

 

Dave Brown - the mere mention of his name racks my body with waves of diarrhea.

 

How about these "gems" in the lost Nineties - Jarrod Bunch, Derek Brown, Thomas Lewis, Tyrone Wheatley, Cedric Jones - yeesh.

 

Let's face it - George Young got the job because Tim and Wellington Mara hated eachother's guts, and it was taking a toll on the entire league. Again, he deserves credit for getting Perkins onboard, and then promoting Parcells. But because of his ego and stubborness, he dismantled everything he accomplished, and it has taken 17 years to be at the point of redemption.