The problem isn't Eli, or the defense, or whatever.

[Virginia Giant]

People always point to Eli being the culprit to our second half demise, but the real problem is the injuries we always pile up the second half of the year. We thought we were having a somewhat healthy year, a few dings hereand there, but overall not nearly as bad as years past.

 

We've had injuries early, but right now we have Plax and his ankle and now his knee, Jacobs, Ross, Smith, ward. Thats 4 key offensive players hurt. And what do our braniac coaches always do? ecide to chuck the ball 40 times a game. When you throw 40 times to a hurt Plax and aging toomer, you're not going to be sucesful. Then that puts the defense in a bad spot.

[NightFire]

People always point to Eli being the culprit to our second half demise, but the real problem is the injuries we always pile up the second half of the year. We thought we were having a somewhat healthy year, a few dings hereand there, but overall not nearly as bad as years past.

 

We've had injuries early, but right now we have Plax and his ankle and now his knee, Jacobs, Ross, Smith, ward. Thats 4 key offensive players hurt. And what do our braniac coaches always do? ecide to chuck the ball 40 times a game. When you throw 40 times to a hurt Plax and aging toomer, you're not going to be sucesful. Then that puts the defense in a bad spot.

 

The D has been good enough this year and every team has injuries and key positions also. Blaming losses on injuries is just a lame excuse and asinine. The problem is that this team doesn't elevate their game when needed and just fold when things get tough. The second half of the season is always where the men are separated from the boys because things always become tough.

[Treehugger]

They were forced to throw last week because Eli's mistakes put us so far behind.

 

I agree that in the past few years injuries have been our downfall, that's pretty obvious, but this year we're healthier than a lot of teams out there. We don't really have that excuse to fall back on.

[Virginia Giant]

The D has been good enough this year and every team has injuries and key positions also. Blaming losses on injuries is just a lame excuse and asinine. The problem is that this team doesn't elevate their game when needed and just fold when things get tough. The second half of the season is always where the men are separated from the boys because things always become tough.

In another thread you said Eli has too many weapons to be middle of the pack. My response is what weapons? plax is maybe 50 %, Toomer is getting too old to be a factor and hasn't been making the BIG catches he has the past few years. Smith is Hurt, Moss never sees the field. Jacobs has been hurt as much as he's been healthy. ward's hurt.

 

That leaves Shockey as his only healthy "weapon". Thats not asinine, thats just commone sense. good teams over come injuries, but I think giants fans underestimate this years injuries because we don't have 20 guys on ir like in years past. We've had fewer injuries this year, but fuck if they havn't been the best players on offense.

 

They were forced to throw last week because Eli's mistakes put us so far behind.

 

I agree that in the past few years injuries have been our downfall, that's pretty obvious, but this year we're healthier than a lot of teams out there. We don't really have that excuse to fall back on.

 

Eli fucked us last week, without question, that doesn't explain why we've thrown 40 times per game for 3 years now. Eli's attempted almost as many passes as Peyton, kitna and Brady and more than Derek Anderson and Tony Romo. And contrary to popular beleif, he doesn't have the weapons this year, they're all fucking hurt.

 

[NightFire]

In another thread you said Eli has too many weapons to be middle of the pack. My response is what weapons? plax is maybe 50 %, Toomer is getting too old to be a factor and hasn't been making the BIG catches he has the past few years. Smith is Hurt, Moss never sees the field. Jacobs has been hurt as much as he's been healthy. ward's hurt.

 

That leaves Shockey as his only healthy "weapon". Thats not asinine, thats just common sense. good teams over come injuries, but I think giants fans underestimate this years injuries because we don't have 20 guys on ir like in years past. We've had fewer injuries this year, but fuck if they haven't been the best players on offense.

Eli fucked us last week, without question, that doesn't explain why we've thrown 40 times per game for 3 years now. Eli's attempted almost as many passes as Peyton, kitna and Brady and more than Derek Anderson and Tony Romo. And contrary to popular beleif, he doesn't have the weapons this year, they're all fucking hurt.

 

It is because every year it's the same excuse. The Giants are failing down the stretch (well not yet but if they do) because so and so is injured. Eli has to elevate his game in hard times but doesn't. Champions have the will to win, Eli just doesn't seem to have that will to carry this team when needed. Everybody can knock Tiki for his mouth or ego but when he had to come through he usually did. Now it's Eli's turn to man up and play beyond his abilities.

[Virginia Giant]

It is because every year it's the same excuse. The Giants are failing down the stretch (well not yet but if they do) because so and so is injured. Eli has to elevate his game in hard times but doesn't. Champions have the will to win, Eli just doesn't seem to have that will to carry this team when needed. Everybody can knock Tiki for his mouth or ego but when he had to come through he usually did. Now it's Eli's turn to man up and play beyond his abilities.

 

 

I understand that, and yeah Eli has to elevate his game. But who is he throwing to? Shockey is his lone weapon right now, and we can't even run the ball because our top 2 runningbacks are hurt.

 

 

I don't like to use injuries as an excuse, but you just can't win when half the skill players on offense are hurt.

 

I'm niot blind, Eli makes bad decisions, and was aweful last week, but you also got to give him some slack. it may get old hearing injuries used as an excuse, but shit man, it may be old but that doesn't make it any less true.

[Treehugger]

Eli's only been without a running game for one week. He's still way better off this year.

[Sephiroth]

It is because every year it's the same excuse. The Giants are failing down the stretch (well not yet but if they do) because so and so is injured. Eli has to elevate his game in hard times but doesn't. Champions have the will to win, Eli just doesn't seem to have that will to carry this team when needed. Everybody can knock Tiki for his mouth or ego but when he had to come through he usually did. Now it's Eli's turn to man up and play beyond his abilities

 

Exactly. Last year we hit a slide because Eli couldn't throw to Toomer due to injuries. Now it's because he can't throw to Plax?

 

And I had a REALLY scary thought the other day: what if Tiki was right? What if Eli is viewed by his teammates as a "comical" leader who can't cut it in the big city? I always thought and continue to think that his teammates like him and like playing for him but again... what if other guys on the team feel the same way Tiki did?

[Storm]

Bah, this is the same excuse I hear year in and year out. Fact of the matter is, good teams, good coaches, and good quarterbacks find a way to get through the injuries and we don't. So either a coach that can get his players to play well through injuries, we need players who stay healthy, a team that can play well through injuries, or a quarterback that can step up when time's are tough. We have none of those. And one of them needs to be fixed before we'll ever be a good team.

[fringe]

Bah, this is the same excuse I hear year in and year out. Fact of the matter is, good teams, good coaches, and good quarterbacks find a way to get through the injuries and we don't. So either a coach that can get his players to play well through injuries, we need players who stay healthy, a team that can play well through injuries, or a quarterback that can step up when time's are tough. We have none of those. And one of them needs to be fixed before we'll ever be a good team.

not really- usually the relatively healthy teams have better seasons. the injuries we've had the past few years (wiping out the entire LB crew, for instance) were pretty devastating.

 

I do disagree with VG though and agree with you for the present. There are no devastating injuries on this team and we should be able to rise above the ones we have.

[Storm]

not really- usually the relatively healthy teams have better seasons. the injuries we've had the past few years (wiping out the entire LB crew, for instance) were pretty devastating.

 

I do disagree with VG though and agree with you for the present. There are no devastating injuries on this team and we should be able to rise above the ones we have.

 

What I mean is, no matter what, every team has injuries they have to overcome throughout the year. At least one major one, too.

[Herc]

injuries have hurt us, but if they have become a continuing trend with this team (which i believe they have) then it's up to the team to plan for them and shape its roster accordingly.

[Virginia Giant]

Gentlemen, the fact that injuries are used as excuses every year either means we are looking for excuses, or we need to quit having injuries every year,. We have fewer injuries this year, we've also lost to only 1 team we should have beat.

 

 

Tree, exactly which game was it that we didn't have a running game?

 

 

Once more, who is out there to throw to? Plax is hurt, Amani is just not the player he once was, Smith is hurt, Moss see's the fireld a few times a month. Shockey is it.

[ksm7]

Gentlemen, the fact that injuries are used as excuses every year either means we are looking for excuses, or we need to quit having injuries every year,. We have fewer injuries this year, we've also lost to only 1 team we should have beat.

Tree, exactly which game was it that we didn't have a running game?

Once more, who is out there to throw to? Plax is hurt, Amani is just not the player he once was, Smith is hurt, Moss see's the fireld a few times a month. Shockey is it.

 

although the Dog has a healthy disdain for the injury excuse (the fact is, what others are saying here is true...injuries impact all teams and the top tier teams are able to overcome them either because they are very well rounded or have solid depth...), this is a very valid point...it is difficult when your receiving core is depleted and/or aging and unproductive...This is where Barber's retirement hurts...sure Jacobs is a quality back, but Barber added a different dimesnion, and until Jacobs can prove that he can handle the load, the Barber loss looms large...

 

As for Manning, without receivers it is a challenge, but for the expectations and what was given up for him (nobody wants to discuss the trade anymore at this point, but the fact is, when that much is offered, the expectation is their will be more of an immediate impact, and that player's learning curve is drastically different then a typical draft choice...), he needs to step up and elevate his game, and he has been inconsistent even with healthy weapons at his disposal...

[Virginia Giant]

although the Dog has a healthy disdain for the injury excuse (the fact is, what others are saying here is true...injuries impact all teams and the top tier teams are able to overcome them either because they are very well rounded or have solid depth...), this is a very valid point...it is difficult when your receiving core is depleted and/or aging and unproductive...This is where Barber's retirement hurts...sure Jacobs is a quality back, but Barber added a different dimesnion, and until Jacobs can prove that he can handle the load, the Barber loss looms large...

 

As for Manning, without receivers it is a challenge, but for the expectations and what was given up for him (nobody wants to discuss the trade anymore at this point, but the fact is, when that much is offered, the expectation is their will be more of an immediate impact, and that player's learning curve is drastically different then a typical draft choice...), he needs to step up and elevate his game, and he has been inconsistent even with healthy weapons at his disposal...

I agree competely, Eli's expecpations are much higher than most quarterbacks. we gave up a lot and his name is Manning. But, even though we all expect a lot (me included) we are not always fair. Eli has not progressed the way we want, that doesn't make him a bum. Our options are limited with what we can do with that position, we are invested in him, and he really isn't a "bad" quarterback. he isn't his brother at this point, and he probly never will be, but he is someone who can lead us to a super bowl victory if he can have a complete receiving corps late in the year.

 

I also agree with the fact super bowl and even playoff caliber teams/qb's over come the injuries. However, you can look no further than the player Eli is most compared to. his brother. Peyton may through 15 int's this year, he hasn't thrown more than 10 since 2002. He also will need 2 TD's per game the rest of the way to get to his average number of td's per year. He obviously misses harrison, and he still has Wayne, Clarke and Addai.

 

 

We've lost twice to the second best team in the NFL and once to the second best team in the NFC. We lost 1 game to an inferior team.. Anyone really think San Diego is better than Indy?

[NightFire]

Gentlemen, the fact that injuries are used as excuses every year either means we are looking for excuses, or we need to quit having injuries every year,. We have fewer injuries this year, we've also lost to only 1 team we should have beat.

Tree, exactly which game was it that we didn't have a running game?

Once more, who is out there to throw to? Plax is hurt, Amani is just not the player he once was, Smith is hurt, Moss see's the fireld a few times a month. Shockey is it.

 

Last year it was because Toomer went down that Eli struggled. Well Toomer came back and played OK but now it's Toomer and Plax. Here is Toomer's numbers:

 

9 91

2 48

4 24

4 54

0 0

7 89

3 36

1 13

3 37

4 39

4 83

 

Hardly that bad especially since in his low yard games he was still second or third in receptions. Toomer isn't the problem it's that down the stretch this team fades. Hopefully the Giants will dominate the Bears and help to alleviate some of this MB's fears. Maybe it is a different year but then again maybe not.

[Virginia Giant]

Last year it was because Toomer went down that Eli struggled. Well Toomer came back and played OK but now it's Toomer and Plax. Here is Toomer's numbers:

 

9 91

2 48

4 24

4 54

0 0

7 89

3 36

1 13

3 37

4 39

4 83

 

Hardly that bad especially since in his low yard games he was still second or third in receptions. Toomer isn't the problem it's that down the stretch this team fades. Hopefully the Giants will dominate the Bears and help to alleviate some of this MB's fears. Maybe it is a different year but then again maybe not.

 

 

Could it be Toomer has been targeted because Plax has been limited and Smith has been hurt? I'm not saying Toomer sucks, but right now he is basically our top receiver.

[Treehugger]

Tree, exactly which game was it that we didn't have a running game?

That would be the last one, against the Vikings. I know a lot of us have blank it from our memory already.

[Virginia Giant]

That would be the last one, against the Vikings. I know a lot of us have blank it from our memory already.

Thats my point Tree, the one game where there was NO running game was against the ONE team we lost to who we should have beat.

[Treehugger]

Thats my point Tree, the one game where there was NO running game was against the ONE team we lost to who we should have beat.

Every issue in that game pales in comparison to Eli handing them 28 points.

[Herc]

but what can you honestly do to prevent injuries? every team experiences them. the colts had very few injuries last season and now they are littered with them. the pats went through the same thing a few years back, and this season we are actually doing a bit better in this department than last year.

 

so let's say for arguments sake that you are 100% correct and that our biggest problem is injuries. if they can't be prevented, what's the solution? that's the only way we should be thinking IMO, cuz just stating the problem does the team no good

[Virginia Giant]

but what can you honestly do to prevent injuries? every team experiences them. the colts had very few injuries last season and now they are littered with them. the pats went through the same thing a few years back, and this season we are actually doing a bit better in this department than last year.

 

so let's say for arguments sake that you are 100% correct and that our biggest problem is injuries. if they can't be prevented, what's the solution? that's the only way we should be thinking IMO, cuz just stating the problem does the team no good

Stating the problem is just the begining, correcting them is.

 

How to prevent injuries. Well, lets look at what type of injuries we've had. Plax's ankle is something that really can't be helped, likewise with Brandon's early knee injury. Muscle type injuries (hamstrings) should never plague a team like they have always plagued us. jacobs, Plax, Smith (I think) Ross have all had hamstring issues. Thats on the coaches. I'm not saying they should be fired for that, but something needs to change. Wre all know our injuries have gotten better, why is that? a change in the coaching attitude is the obvious answer, so if we still have muscle related injuries, but not as many, take it a step further in training camp, preseason, practice. Also, I have thought for a while with our muscle injuries that we have not stretched the way we should, they should think differently and hire yoga instructors or something to teach this team to stretch before practice/games. Flexible players don't injure muscles.

[Herc]

i dont know, hamstrings are a pretty common athletic injury. what do you mean when you say the change in coaching attitude is the reason we have less injuries?

[Treehugger]

The simple solution is genetics. The Mara's should have started a breeding program back in 1925 to combat the issue.

 

I don't know how you can point to the coaches. Strength & Conditioning team need an overhall, if that's what you mean? Way too many muscle tears, especially last year, points to problems in how they're working in the gym. It's clearly more than just stretching before a game; they do that pretty comprehensively. I don't know where "coaches' attitude" comes into it.

[ksm7]

I agree competely, Eli's expecpations are much higher than most quarterbacks. we gave up a lot and his name is Manning. But, even though we all expect a lot (me included) we are not always fair. Eli has not progressed the way we want, that doesn't make him a bum. Our options are limited with what we can do with that position, we are invested in him, and he really isn't a "bad" quarterback. he isn't his brother at this point, and he probly never will be, but he is someone who can lead us to a super bowl victory if he can have a complete receiving corps late in the year.

 

I also agree with the fact super bowl and even playoff caliber teams/qb's over come the injuries. However, you can look no further than the player Eli is most compared to. his brother. Peyton may through 15 int's this year, he hasn't thrown more than 10 since 2002. He also will need 2 TD's per game the rest of the way to get to his average number of td's per year. He obviously misses harrison, and he still has Wayne, Clarke and Addai.

We've lost twice to the second best team in the NFL and once to the second best team in the NFC. We lost 1 game to an inferior team.. Anyone really think San Diego is better than Indy?

 

The Dog sees your point...hate to say this, because again it gets beat to death, and the Dog knows it has become a topic that nobody wants to discuss, but a lot of what you are saying all still stems from a poor management decision to make that trade...Manning can lead a team to the Super Bowl, as a number of average at best QBs have (the Dog isn't saying that Manning will always be mediocre, but at this stage, that is what he is, and there is no guarentee it will ever move forward...)...the Dog has always maintained that you do not need a great or even a good QB to win Super Bowls...so why, when there are 3 potential high quality QBs in a draft do you give up thta much? Build a team to win...add solid depth to address the issues that other teams have, injuries...

 

recent Super Bowl winning Qbs include Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer, Kurt Warner, Ben Roethlisberger, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, and even Phil Simms (yes the Dog will take hear here, and yes he was exceptional that game, but he was not the reason that team was playing in the Super Bowl, he just managed games well and didn't make mistakes that cost the team...)...All of those teams built great defenses, had good depth to overcome injuries...etc.

 

the draft for many teams goes beyond getting top starters...many teams use the draft to strnegthen rosters for depth and to obtain quality role players...