gmenroc

Add in his forced fumbles and he was pretty productive over the past two seasons. I believe his value to other teams is as high as it's been as far as a potential trade and that rather than keeping him around for just one more season (where he'd split time with Tuck and JPP) and watching him walk next offseason getting nothing in return, that it could be beneficial to trade him now. I fully believe that Osi is still upset over not getting a bigger deal, but that he also realizes that bitching about it publicly isn't going to win him many big contracts from any team. I believe too, that if the Giants and another team were to offer him equal contracts next offseason, that he'd still walk. He might even take less money to go elsewhere for a full time starting position. Does starting games, or playing more often, with JPP/Canty/Tuck/Umenyiora this season soften his stance? Perhaps, but I still have my doubts

Well, R&D in general then...perhaps not the helmet itself. But again, I think that changing the game itself on such a large scale should be the last resort.

OTs are huge in setting the edge on a run to the outside. Running to the outside may very well have been more successful in the past few years for the sole fact that we'd check a OG in as a TE to help the OT set the edge. Not to mention, they need to be adept enough to push the DE up the field so that the DE can track the RB down from the back side of the play. With the athleticism of DEs nowadays, it happens a good bit. Mike Adams and Jonathon Martin are being thrown around as possibly being available. Both are recognized by sources who know far more about ranking football players than we, as 1st round talent. I'll take that confidently, should the Giants make one of these guys our #1 pick.

I believe Dayne broke the NCAA rushing record too, didn't he? He was a bust, but the pick was not a reach. There's a host of other teams that probably would've made the same selection. Overpaying a rookie isn't as much an issue anymore with the rookie wage scale.

Yeah, I know the cause of the concussion, but if the materials of the helmet absorbed more of the impact, there'd be less brain-sloshing. Again, I'm not saying there's an answer out there that's not being used, but shoveling some of the billions of dollars into the equipment/field surfaces/etc would be preferrable to changing the game as drastically as they have/plan

What about winning the superbowl the year prior? That a good thing? Lol. I believe Dayne was a mid-round pick too...don't believe he was top 10 anyhow, but could be wrong.

I'd hold off on claiming Jones, Herzlich, and Paysinger to be serious talent...I'll give you Williams. I agree though, that I'd be a bit surprised to see LB taken early given our youth at the position already. Jones, Herzlich, and Paysinger...with another year or two of development and tutelage under Boley, Kiwi, and maybe even Rivers...with Blackburn to back them up...LB in general, is not nearly the biggest hole. I still think one gets drafted, but very simply, not in the top 3 rounds.

I agree, he's a pass rusher and not fantastic against the run, but I wouldn't go so far to call him a liability or a guy that we win in spite of. But last season, he recorded about a sack a game...that's pretty damn good for DE's, no? He's arguably a top 10 in the league, and even at top 15, I'd think a team would pay a 1st rounder in next year's draft for a proven top 15 pass rushing DE. Hell, you could even structure the potential trade to range from a 3rd to a 1st dependent upon (1) production and (2) where in the round the pick ends up being. Point is, whether we consider him worth it or not, I have to believe that another team in the league would.

I think the draft is generally deep enough that we'll get an eventual starter at #32...and I for one, am hoping that it's a long term, career-as-a-Giant kind of guy, who plays with a bit of a chip on his shoulder against all the other teams for passing on him.

I, too, doubt a 1st rounder this year....was thinking more of a 1st rounder next year, which I think would be a fair asking price for 15 sacks a season...for a player, pretty much in his prime. I agree as well, that Osi SHOULD play out his contract and enter free agency next season, without speaking publicly about his deal. And, I think he currently plans to do just that. BUT, if we draft a DE in the first round, the writing on the wall will be so apparent that it could easily trigger trade talks/hurt feelings/holdouts-to-force-trade

Not this year anyhow...wait until Osi is shown the door and Kiwi is the 3rd DE...subbing for Tuck or JPP or being on the field when Tuck moves in to DT

Let's just take the ST out of the game entirely, remove all the defenders, and just let's just see whose offense can score the quickest....sounds like a fantastic way to RUIN football How about doing more research into the helmets, experimenting with different materials, etc. How about enforcing the players to actually wear ALL the pads that many of them take out...thinking the thigh/knee pads in particular? Changing some of the rules on blocks would be fine and moving the kickoff from 35 to 30 would be fine...but making such drastic changes to the game could make it unwatchable.

If he's not on the field in 2012 and struggles AT ALL in 2013...I have to beleve his career then, will be like his knee now...completely fucked.

I'm moving away from the TE position too as draft day approaches. Fleener has been given a 1st round grade for a reason, and I don't believe it's only because he's the best TE in the class. He's a quality player in a pro system there at Stanford, who had a good QB throwing him the ball. That said, you have to discount his stats and his accomplishments slightly because of the QB, system, and coach. I still think Fleener is an end of round 1, top of round 2 grade. And I still wouldn't be upset at the pick, given Bennett and Ballard are only signed through 2012...and having a developing rookie would allow for more flexibility NEXT offseason at the TE position. That said, RB and OT are both becoming more appealing to me given our running game struggles. We have not replaced Brandon Jacobs at all and seemingly were not interested in doing so via free agency. I think the front office is far more convinced on Ware than most fans are. But I think there are real concerns here..because Bradshaw, as good and as tough as he is...is constantly dinged, hurt, injured, not practicing...etc. Adding more of him into the offense, will only increase the likeliness of injury. Scott showed he is fast in his rookie year...but again, he's largely unproven. So I have to believe that the Giants will select a RB at some point...but where they select one will depend heavily upon (1) where they want to insert a rookie in the depth chart and (2) which RBs are available when they're selecting. As for OT, again, we have an unproven Brewer, an injured Beatty, an aging Diehl, a FA signing in Locklear to man the two OT positions. That's a little sketchy, but that being so, I don't see an end-of-round-1 rookie doing all that much better, regardless of who might fall to that spot. There's a depth issue there and it needs to be addressed in the draft. But unless a Jonathon Martin falls or even a Mike Adams falls to us at 32, I don't know that anyone's going to be available. DE, as others have brought up, I would be fine with it if Chandler Jones is available. If we do select him, expect Osi to be royally pissed and possibly even hold out. If we do select Chandler Jones, I'd open Osi up to trade talks immediately. He's easily worth a 1st rounder given his production just last year. I'd be completely fine if that first rounder was this year OR next....again, so long as we picked a DE at #32 this year. And yeah, I'd want Osi traded out of the division....he's a VERY good DE, but his desires to be THE DE on the team as opposed to a rotational player that the Giants want him to be...could be a cause for trading him. I would get a sense of Osi's trade value prior to selecting Jones.

That's before he gets injured in week 6, right?

OT's Glen, Martin, Adams...would be fine with TE Fleener...would be fine with RB Martin...would be fine with

In all likelihood, Ballard won't play this year...at all...and is a free agent at the end of the season. Beckum sucks. Pascoe is a backup. Bennett was only signed for a year. While we might not favor drafting a TE, especially early, we should address it, again, if for no other reason, than to provide flexibility NEXT year. Whatever production we'd get out of the draft pick this year, would be bonus. Mike Adams may very well be available and would be worth the #32 in my opinion. I like Bobbie Massie too, but probably not until our 2nd round pick...thought admittedly, that'd be a stretch for him to make it that long. I'd be okay using our normal 4th rounder, to move up in the 2nd, to get Massie should we miss out on Adams in the first. RBs in general are having less of an importance in an ever-more passing friendly league. Richardson is definitely the cream of the crop this year, but there are definitely a few out there that I wouldn't mind having. I like Bernard Pierce in the 3rd, but would not complain about Doug Martin in the first if he's still there. I think Goff is as good as gone given the trade for Rivers. I think with LB, the young guys will only get better. Boley, Kiwi, Rivers, Williams...that's not a bad lineup...with Herzlich, Jones, Sintim in reserve. I'd still want a draft pick on LB though, because I have to believe that Osi is going to bolt next year when his contract is up. Someone's going to pay him handsomely, and I don't see that being us. So, moving Kiwi back to DE, might happen this year some, but would probably happen moreso next year. Filling that hole before it's truly a hole...my kind of proactive move (as opposed to being reactive and filling it when we have to).

I wouldn't check off TE depth quite that easily...Ballard, Bennett...both FA after 2012...drafting a TE could ease that. OT - Brewer is unproven, Locklear isn't necessarily a walk-in-and-start kind of guy. Diehl is starting to show some age. Beatty, I'm not nearly as sold on him as others are..and he's coming off eye surgery. So, I could easily see us addressing the depth issue here as well. But you're right, we have made some moves that have afforded us greater flexibility. We don't need to find a TE to start this year and could draft one who'd be ready to start next year. We could find an OT that could start a few years down the road. We could easily go DE again too, to leverage against the Osi negotiations that are upcoming.

Pretty much on the same page here. OT/TE/RB2/LB/WR3 are all questionable.

Yeah, from the Bengals point of view, Rivers was a luxury given the players they had AND he had an over 2 million cap hit. So it benefited the Bengals to move him. It benefited us from picking him up on the cheap. Both sides won in this trade, which is probably why it happened. I'm not overly optimistic about the move like the articles that reference his high draft status would like me to be, but I also don't hate it and think that the low risk/high potential aspect of the trade, to attempt to secure a position at which we've shown a weakness is a good thing. The ripples of the trade could be noticeable too. Osi's a free agent next year. If Rivers pans out, Kiwi could move back to DE and we then have the leverage in the Osi contract dealings. If Rivers does not pan out, then we blew a 5th, damn near 6th rounder on a guy who was a lower risk than any draft pick we were going to get at that spot. I'm completely okay with that.

Yeah, we're fairly good at interior OLine. There are depth issues elsewhere...like OT, like RB, like TE and maybe even WR depending how Barden and Jernigan fair this season. LB, we've got a lot of youth there already...so adding to that might not be the best idea. Williams, Jones, Herzlich...all really young guys who have shown some flashes here and there, but anyhow...there should be another season to allow them to develop. I wouldn't mind a S either in the draft. With the salary cap projected to maintain its current level, providing some depth at S would allow us to cut Rolle's salary down the road a bit.

I, too, would like to see Chase back, but I'll be honest...without the thread title, you could have been talking about Jacobs. With Rivers coming in and the youth we have at the position, I can't see Blackburn coming back.

With the spacing there, I thought you were going to start rhyming all poetry style... moves yesterday were classic Giants moves. We didn't give up much for any of them and I'll wait until I see details on what they'll get paid, but all in all, I was pleased to see us bringing in an OT and a LB. Not overly certain what to think of the Molden signing. I realize we lost Ross, and that someone would fulfill that spot (Prince), but I thought we had enough internally to cover Ross' departure. That said, it still creates competition for the 4th CB spot and almost guarantees that Rolle will get to play S full time now. The moves definitely create flexibility come draft day. I wouldn't be surprised if we still took a T or TE....especially the TE. Ballard was restricted FA this year, but I believe will be unrestricted FA next year. I know Bennett was only signed for a year. So if we don't find someone in the draft, we're going to have a glaring need there next year. In the same way the Giants created flexibility on draft day by the moves made yesterday, they can create flexibility next year by drafting a TE this year.

Yep...I can appreciate what Parcells brought to both our team and football in general. We were fortunate to have him when we did, and from the sounds of things, his leaving the Giants was not necessarily as self-serving as many paint it out to be. Again, I was just getting into football at that time, so I'm no Parcell's expert. But his going to the Jets, Patriots, Cowboys...I see as his desire to be part of the game. I think he had a desire to remain challenged, to remain a part of the game he loved. Once he got those teams back to a competitive level, the challenge kinda went away. Now, he's done with the challenges. He's proved himself to be more than capable, he's produced a coaching tree that rivals the Walsh coaching tree, and he can sit back on ESPN as a commentator and be proud of what he was able to accomplish. I have no problem with Parcells...none. I only wish ESPN had him on more often so I could hear how he views the game/players/etc. His insight is far superior to many others that get regular spots.

With only two weeks remaining, I'm getting rather excited to see how the draft actually shakes out.