mastershake

I'm open to it, provided we could come out of this draft with at least a day 1 starting tackle and center. If we don't come out of this with at least that, then this will be another botched season, or 6-10 at best. See Getty is a moron for leaving us to the draft to attempt to fill 3 big holes on the offensive line, after doing nothing in the off-season to address the offensive line (Fleming as a backup doesn't count). But Gettlemen is also a genius doing that because if/when we have another losing season, he can simply say "Well, our OL is young and they're all trying to learn to play together, so we have to give it time." Next season, 2021, after we cut Solder after another failed year at LT, the story will be "Well, we're going through a transition at LT where we're trying out Wirfs/Wills at a new position, so we have to give it time." We're the new Cleveland Browns "Trust the process"

I really liked Terrell Thomas as well, but he unfortunately couldn't stay on the field enough.

We're they underrated? I think we always thought they were studs.

Did the giants ever "blow it up" back in '03-04? The giants were an 11 win team and playoff team by '05 with a 2nd year QB, and they were a winning team in '04 before a very green Eli tookover to begin the transition. The '05 team, which ranked 3rd in points scored and had the highest giants single year rushing total by a back ever (Barber), had Kareem McKenzie, Chris Snee, Shaun O'Hara, David Diehl, and Luke Petitgout. Holy fuck, what I would give for an offensive line like that. Blow ups or not...when you have a good OL, good things seem to happen with your offense. This offseason, it's not like we would have had to break the bank to improve the OL, by acquiring Bulaga and/or Glasgow for example. They went for 3 years $36mm and 4 years $44mm respectively. We easily had that money had we not re-signed Leonard Williams and didn't sign Fleming. We could have added two solid starting OL here. Instead, we're going into the draft with three big question marks at LT, C, and RT, and Williams and Fleming, and a jury still out on Hernandez at G. Is anyone actually satisfied that we signed Williams and Fleming at $22mm in cap space over a capable offensive line??? Is anyone honestly happy with our O-line going into this draft? And to top it all off, we give up two draft picks, one of which is a premium high 3rd round pick, to bring in Williams...and we still leave addressing the OL to the draft. It's the fucking twighlight zone at the Giants front office.

Well done sir.

A few come to mind: - DL Keith Hamilton - QB Kerry Collins. Helped us out of the QB hell of the mid to late 90's. - CB Corey Webster. The guy had a rough first few years, but was a very solid and consistent starting cover corner over the next 6 seasons and two super bowl runs. - WR Steve Smith. Couldn't stay on the field, but still managed to make critical plays in the '07 super bowl run, and holds the giants reception record. - C Sean O'Hara. - OL Dave Diehl. I feel like we always give Snee and Kareem McKenzie lots of credit, but rarely mention Diehl and O'Hara were also good, longtime starters. - DL Barry Cofield. - DL Linval Joseph.

I'm not following about Peppers. What about Peppers? There are good spots on this roster, and there are bad spots. I feel confident about the skill position players and defensive line's ability to stop the run. I feel okay about the secondary assuming Baker grows and Love step up, while the LBs will be a real crapshoot. For the OL, I am not sold that we are any better off than a year ago, 2 years ago, 3 or 4. Two OL players can certainly make a difference, and would be nice if we had two more starting capable veterans than we have, but unfortunately that's not the case. Instead, we got Leonard Williams and Cam Fleming eating up $22mm. The question is that $22mm a good allocation of cap space, or would we have been better off with Glasgow and Bulaga, and I think it's a no brainer that Glasgow and Bulaga would have been. Counting on Nate Solder, at LT again, most likely a rookie tackle in rounds 1 and 2 to come in right away OR Fleming OR Gates, Pulley or a rookie at Center, and a still unproven Hernandez is not my idea of a well planned out, capable offensive line for 2020. This offensive line is riddled with holes and question marks. Again. Would feel much better with Glasgow and Bulaga in there.

Put him at SS.

Having three huge gaps on the offensive line, C, LT, and RT, heading into the draft is a grave error leaving the line seriously deficient (plus, the jury is still out on Will Hernandez who was terrible last year). We could have used $17+mm in precious cap space from the Leonard Williams contract and $4mm from Fleming to bring in actual capable linemen like Graham Glasgow at C and Bryan Bulaga at RT. I would have felt much better about the O-line if we made those additions. Who can you trust on this O-Line going into the season besides Kevin Zeitler? Williams and Fleming. That's nearly $22mm of seriously dumb decisions. I could live with the Bradberry and Martinez signings, as those actually fill voids on the team....while Williams and Fleming add little, while leaving gaping holes on the O-Line. So instead of proven veterans in Glasgow and Bulaga, we're going to have a patchwork offensive line for the 6th season in a row. And we wonder why we keep posting 10 loss seasons consistently.

Oh Solder and Williams just need better coaching? Pulley and Fleming too???

I had lower expectations. I expected improvements at least, which I haven't seen. When Solder and Williams are your top paid players with $37mm allocated to them, you've seriously fucked up as a GM. Look at Gettlemen's two years of free agency in general. Overall It's a disaster outside of Zeitler who was a trade and Markus Golden.

Vernon Gholston, an epic draft bust, has eerily similar numbers (stats and measurables) and a similar draft profile to that of Chase Young. So does Chase Young was completely neutralized by Wisconsin in the Big 10 championship (2nd time around playing him), and in the bowl game against Clemson, and was a non-factor. I think he'll put up numbers close to Jadaveon Clowney (excluding last year)...6-9 sacks per year, but won't be anything special.

Mine is in BC's mock draft thread. Here it is, with us trading down to San Diego for the number 6 and 71st overall picks. Here's mine, assuming the Chargers trade scenario: 1 (6): Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama 2 (36): Lloyd Cushenberry, OC LSU I believe OL in general is our top priority, and I'm not at all comfortable going into the season with Spencer Pulley at C. Cushenberry and Cesar Ruiz are the top C in this draft, but I presume Ruiz will be gone at this point, so the giants pick Cushenberry. I would also love to take a top pass rusher, but the position is thin in this draft and no player at this point warrants a high 2nd round pick (plus I'm hoping we bring back Golden). https://www.nfl.com/prospects/lloyd-cushenberry?id=32194355-5318-1630-6286-472cca057e78 3 (71): Terrell Burgess, S Utah Interchangeable safety who provides depth and sub-package coverage roles, plus insurance in case Love doesn’t pan out and/or Peppers leaves next year. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/terrell-burgess?id=32194255-5210-2577-4960-9b8e33e83c2a 3 (95): Troy Dye, LB Oregon LB depth with coverage ability. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/troy-dye?id=32194459-4530-5092-a5b4-c72f08356d17 4 (110): Josiah Scott, CB Michigan State The giants need depth at CB and a slot cover corner, particularly as Sam Beal can't stay on the field plus hasn't shown much. Scott plays bigger than his size. Nevertheless, his traits are perfectly suited for slot corner with spot starting capabilities as well. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josiah-scott?id=32195343-4f42-6818-5881-c2c3131f23ff

The problem with taking Chase Young is Dave Gettlemen, being the dipshit that he is, has the team headed into the draft with three substantial holes on the offensive line (LT, C, RT), and we desperately need to come out of the draft with two solid day one starters. Meanwhile, he traded away a premium pick (the early 3rd rounder), AND blew $17mm on Leonard Williams (making him the 2nd highest paid player on the team next to fucking Nate Solder), meaning we have not one but two premium assets invested in Williams. Thus, my view, we're now forced to go OL rounds 1 and 2....or else go into the season with gaping holes along the line and another lost season. And if he's seriously counting on Solder, Pulley, Gates, or Fleming on any of those starting spots, he's a bigger moron. If don't think I can take another season where every other week we see our LT spinning around in a circle in pass protection, giving the defender a clear path to the QB never touching the defender, Solder and Flowers style.

Tough one. I'm torn on Chase Young. I think I'd still prefer to take OL Jedrick Willis.

Clearing cap space is only a success if that cap is re-allocated to improve the team. Has it been? Solder was the major acquisition after we got rid of JPP; he's a disaster. And the O-line in general is still horrible. Meanwhile, $22mm allocated to Williams and Fackrell and their 1.5 sacks this year, and we still haven't address the O-Line this offseason. The two highest paid players on this team being Solder and Williams, with $36mm between them, is a fucking disgrace.

I have no problem with getting rid of JPP....problem is who have we replaced him with? Our pass rush has been sub-par last year, though Golden was a lone bright spot, and now he's gone. Now he's gone in favor of Williams and Fackrell (yes, plus Ximines and Carter). $22mm in cap space to these two. What are we doing?

Such a disgrace. And the other interesting part is....Getty brings in Leonard Williams to replace a guy, BJ Hill, who produced 5.5 sacks for the team the previous season (in his rookie season), and a high 3rd round pick at that. Leonard Williams then proceeds to post 0.5 sacks in 8 games for us this season, the equivalant of 1 sacks per season. How much better is Williams than BJ Hill really? Is he really $16mm better? For a few more pressures per year? Heck, even PFF for what it's worth has BJ Hill graded above Leonard Williams. So when we finally part ways with Leonard Williams after this season and his one year contract, we will have wasted 3rd and 5th for him, plus likely squandered a 3rd rounder on BJ Hill. Gettleman is a moron. For every good move he makes (Daniel Jones, Dexter Lawrence), he makes two dumb moves, and then fails to make the other/additional move he should have made.

You know what's interesting, the top 5 paid players on the Bucs outside of Tom Brady are ($61mm of cap space allocated to these): - WR Mike Evans (pro bowl caliber WR) - DE/OLB Shaq Barrett (a top pass rusher) - LT Donovan Smith (a good LT) - DE Jason Pierre Paul (a good pass rusher, if you get 8-10 sacks out of him) - G Ali Marpet (a good G) One other point, the Bucs have ~$28mm invested in two guys who produced 28 sacks last year ($1mm per sack), versus the giants who have $22mm invested in two guys who produced 1.5 sacks last year ($14mm per sack). Meanwhile, here are our top 5 players ($68mm of cap space allocated to these): - LT Nate Solder (a disaster) - DE Leonard Williams (overpaid/overrated) - G Kevin Zeitler (Good G who I'm fine with) - WR Golden Tate - LB Blake Martinez Getty has us paying $7mm more for this bullshit vs the Bucs. I fucking hate him. Is anyone confident about our OL and pass rush going into this season? I'm not.

I think they will manage since the team draft rooms have always been virtual anyway (or have for the past 20yrs or so)

Any chance the Jaguars trade up their #9 and #20 pick, and possibly a mid rounder, to us for the #4 pick, to jump ahead and pick Tua? Or do they believe Minshew is their answer at Qb? In that scenario, you risk Wills or your top OL prospect possibly being drafted by the Cards or Panthers, but you still likely end up with a good OT, or DL Derrick Brown, LB Isaiah Simmons, possibly even Okudah if he ends up falling.

I agree.

In fine with drafting him as a RT

Why is the Chargers theory shot? Have they found a QB?

I"d be happy with that draft. Here's mine, assuming the Chargers trade scenario: 1 (6): Jedrick Wills, OT Alabama 2 (36): Lloyd Cushenberry, OC LSU I believe OL in general is our top priority, and I'm not at all comfortable going into the season with Spencer Pulley at C. Cushenberry and Cesar Ruiz are the top C in this draft, but I presume Ruiz will be gone at this point, so the giants pick Cushenberry. I would also love to take a top pass rusher, but the position is thin in this draft and no player at this point warrants a high 2nd round pick (plus I'm hoping we bring back Golden). https://www.nfl.com/prospects/lloyd-cushenberry?id=32194355-5318-1630-6286-472cca057e78 3 (71): Terrell Burgess, S Utah Interchangeable safety who provides depth and sub-package coverage roles, plus insurance in case Love doesn’t pan out and/or Peppers leaves next year. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/terrell-burgess?id=32194255-5210-2577-4960-9b8e33e83c2a 3 (95): Troy Dye, LB Oregon LB depth with coverage ability. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/troy-dye?id=32194459-4530-5092-a5b4-c72f08356d17 4 (110): Josiah Scott, CB Michigan State The giants need depth at CB and a slot cover corner, particularly as Sam Beal can't stay on the field plus hasn't shown much. Scott plays bigger than his size. Nevertheless, his traits are perfectly suited for slot corner with spot starting capabilities as well. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/josiah-scott?id=32195343-4f42-6818-5881-c2c3131f23ff