Who actually believed McNabb could tie it up....

[BadEgg]

He didn't have a postseason breakdown of 6 touchdowns and 1 interception?

He didn't pick apart Green Bay's secondary in Lambeau?

He didn't lead a 46 second TD drive against your beloved Cowboys before halftime?

He didn't convert a 3rd and 10 to Steve Smith with under a minute to go in the superbowl following the "magical play" you try to belittle?

 

Just curious.... You love talking about the Tyree play and try to downplay it or use it to call Eli lucky or whatever the hell you do... But that was 35 yards of an 80 yard touchdown drive with less than 2 minutes to go in the superbowl. What about the other 45 yards of that drive? Eli didn't do shit on that either right? Keep talking your shit - we have all seen how well Romo plays in the big games

 

Wake up, son. There are many professional QBs, including Romo, that could have won those 4 playoff games with that Giants team and that Giants defense. You love talking about that magical touchdown drive but let's be honest, it wasn't exactly Montana to Taylor. When I use the names "Montana" and "Taylor" do you know who I am referring to? Nevermind, I think Eli's body of work in the playoffs speaks for itself.

[BurnThePhilFans]

Wake up, son. There are many professional QBs, including Romo, that could have won those 4 playoff games with that Giants team and that Giants defense. You love talking about that magical touchdown drive but let's be honest, it wasn't exactly Montana to Taylor. When I use the names "Montana" and "Taylor" do you know who I am referring to? Nevermind, I think Eli's body of work in the playoffs speaks for itself.

 

Many qb's could have won those games? You mean beaten one of the top ranked defenses in Tampa, the 13-3 Cowboys in their house, and the Pack who never lose playoff games at home? Oh and top it off with beating an 18-0 team which averaged 36 points per game and broke all kinds of NFL records? All qb's could have done that.... and only thrown 1 interception in that stretch?

 

Romo could have done it? Romo couldn't beat a rookie qb in his own house, in the last game ever in the Cowboys stadium in a must win game. The football Gods gave him a miracle 2nd opportunity to make the playoffs in Philly and he choked it away again. But he could have won those 4 games EASILY huh? Interesting.

[BadEgg]

Many qb's could have won those games? You mean beaten one of the top ranked defenses in Tampa, the 13-3 Cowboys in their house, and the Pack who never lose playoff games at home? Oh and top it off with beating an 18-0 team which averaged 36 points per game and broke all kinds of NFL records? All qb's could have done that.... and only thrown 1 interception in that stretch?

 

Romo could have done it? Romo couldn't beat a rookie qb in his own house, in the last game ever in the Cowboys stadium in a must win game. The football Gods gave him a miracle 2nd opportunity to make the playoffs in Philly and he choked it away again. But he could have won those 4 games EASILY huh? Interesting.

 

I think you would donate $ to Eli Manning's future 120 million dollar salary if the Giants asked. Yea, I would venture to say that Eli Manning did not win all of those games by himself. In fact, had the Pats scored 36 in the Superbowl they would have won. I would have been impressed by Eli had the Giants outscored them 37-36. But that game, as well as that run, was fueled by the defense.

 

[ksm7]

Many qb's could have won those games? You mean beaten one of the top ranked defenses in Tampa, the 13-3 Cowboys in their house, and the Pack who never lose playoff games at home? Oh and top it off with beating an 18-0 team which averaged 36 points per game and broke all kinds of NFL records? All qb's could have done that.... and only thrown 1 interception in that stretch?

 

Romo could have done it? Romo couldn't beat a rookie qb in his own house, in the last game ever in the Cowboys stadium in a must win game. The football Gods gave him a miracle 2nd opportunity to make the playoffs in Philly and he choked it away again. But he could have won those 4 games EASILY huh? Interesting.

 

the dog thinks eli manning managed things very well during that run, and relative to his inconsistent performances up until that point, he played extremely well last year in the postseason. the thing is, the defense was the driving force behind that run (as is usually the case in the postseason).

[xxi-xxv]

Bottom line is this about ELI and his SB run of 2007. There is no doubt that the defense played a tremendous role in what was accomplished(although I think in Tampa ELI set the tone early down 7-0 as the defense put them in a hole), but there were 2 VERY KEY instances in 2 games where ELI picked his team up after the defense let them down, 2 instances IMO that were key elements to winning the SB.

 

1)drive at the end of the 1st half of the Dallas game. Defense allows 18 play TD drive. Eli, with 47 seconds leads the team down the field for 7 to tie the game up 14-14, which IMO was the absolute turning point of this game. Credit the defense all you want. In this instance they were beaten and down and ELI picked them right up.

 

2)TD drive to put Giants ahead 10-7 in the 4th quarter of the SB. This drive and this TD pass goes forgotten because of what later transpired and the fact that the DEFENSE allowed the Pats to come down and score and take the lead with 2:42 to go. Now we can credit the Giants defense for holding the pats in check all day, but as often happens in these instances the big time offense scores when they have to and takes the lead. Now the Giants defense played awesome all day, but the bottom line was that with less than 3 minutes to go they allowed Brady and the Pats a long TD drive to take the lead in the 4th quarter. People can cry(because at this point thats all it really is) about lucky catches and helmets and whatever, but the bottom line is this. Eli Manning that day led his team on 2 4th quarter TD drives to take the lead and was able to overcome his defense surrendering the 1st lead.

 

Diminishing what Manning has done the past 12 months because of what happened in 1 playoff game is as silly as annointing him to greatness because of 1 playoff game.

[ksm7]

Bottom line is this about ELI and his SB run of 2007. There is no doubt that the defense played a tremendous role in what was accomplished(although I think in Tampa ELI set the tone early down 7-0 as the defense put them in a hole), but there were 2 VERY KEY instances in 2 games where ELI picked his team up after the defense let them down, 2 instances IMO that were key elements to winning the SB.

 

1)drive at the end of the 1st half of the Dallas game. Defense allows 18 play TD drive. Eli, with 47 seconds leads the team down the field for 7 to tie the game up 14-14, which IMO was the absolute turning point of this game. Credit the defense all you want. In this instance they were beaten and down and ELI picked them right up.

 

2)TD drive to put Giants ahead 10-7 in the 4th quarter of the SB. This drive and this TD pass goes forgotten because of what later transpired and the fact that the DEFENSE allowed the Pats to come down and score and take the lead with 2:42 to go. Now we can credit the Giants defense for holding the pats in check all day, but as often happens in these instances the big time offense scores when they have to and takes the lead. Now the Giants defense played awesome all day, but the bottom line was that with less than 3 minutes to go they allowed Brady and the Pats a long TD drive to take the lead in the 4th quarter. People can cry(because at this point thats all it really is) about lucky catches and helmets and whatever, but the bottom line is this. Eli Manning that day led his team on 2 4th quarter TD drives to take the lead and was able to overcome his defense surrendering the 1st lead.

 

Diminishing what Manning has done the past 12 months because of what happened in 1 playoff game is as silly as annointing him to greatness because of 1 playoff game.

 

the dog would never diminish what manning has done...nor would the dog elevate him to greatness based on it either. not yet anyway. he made plays he had to make, but in the end, and we will differ on this, the giants won the super bowl last year because of their defensive scheme, and their execution on defense. they held the pats to 14 points, 7 going into the final few minutes...had they generated consistent offense, and executed well on offense, this game would have never come down to the final minute anyway...

[BurnThePhilFans]

Bottom line is this about ELI and his SB run of 2007. There is no doubt that the defense played a tremendous role in what was accomplished(although I think in Tampa ELI set the tone early down 7-0 as the defense put them in a hole), but there were 2 VERY KEY instances in 2 games where ELI picked his team up after the defense let them down, 2 instances IMO that were key elements to winning the SB.

 

1)drive at the end of the 1st half of the Dallas game. Defense allows 18 play TD drive. Eli, with 47 seconds leads the team down the field for 7 to tie the game up 14-14, which IMO was the absolute turning point of this game. Credit the defense all you want. In this instance they were beaten and down and ELI picked them right up.

 

2)TD drive to put Giants ahead 10-7 in the 4th quarter of the SB. This drive and this TD pass goes forgotten because of what later transpired and the fact that the DEFENSE allowed the Pats to come down and score and take the lead with 2:42 to go. Now we can credit the Giants defense for holding the pats in check all day, but as often happens in these instances the big time offense scores when they have to and takes the lead. Now the Giants defense played awesome all day, but the bottom line was that with less than 3 minutes to go they allowed Brady and the Pats a long TD drive to take the lead in the 4th quarter. People can cry(because at this point thats all it really is) about lucky catches and helmets and whatever, but the bottom line is this. Eli Manning that day led his team on 2 4th quarter TD drives to take the lead and was able to overcome his defense surrendering the 1st lead.

 

Diminishing what Manning has done the past 12 months because of what happened in 1 playoff game is as silly as annointing him to greatness because of 1 playoff game.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Eli Manning is the only quarterback in superbowl history to lead 2 fourth quarter touchdown drives...

[gateb]

the dog would never diminish what manning has done...nor would the dog elevate him to greatness based on it either. not yet anyway. he made plays he had to make, but in the end, and we will differ on this, the giants won the super bowl last year because of their defensive scheme, and their execution on defense. they held the pats to 14 points, 7 going into the final few minutes...had they generated consistent offense, and executed well on offense, this game would have never come down to the final minute anyway...

You don't know that. The pace of the game dictates how it goes. If Eli didn't convert four third downs on the first drive and drain ten minutes of the clock things might have been different. The offense didn't score much not just because they didn't execute to perfection but there weren't that many drives and the Pats defense is very good.

 

 

[JMFP]

the dog thinks someone in the giants organziation better extend the courtesy to manning and let him know the monkey may have jumped back on, and this time he is carrying with him a contract extension with a boatload of money and higher expectations. the dog just hopes for giant fan's sake, the monkey doesn't have gas, because if he starts breaking wind on a regular basis, lord knows that could wreak havoc with manning's passing game...

 

Monkeys don't like Champions....they like to perch on QB's that can't win the Big One.

 

I can think of two right off the bat that play in the NFC East.

 

(Hint: the answer is not the Redskins - they are still looking for a QB that can rise to the level of choker).

[BIGBLUE01]

the dog thinks someone in the giants organziation better extend the courtesy to manning and let him know the monkey may have jumped back on, and this time he is carrying with him a contract extension with a boatload of money and higher expectations. the dog just hopes for giant fan's sake, the monkey doesn't have gas, because if he starts breaking wind on a regular basis, lord knows that could wreak havoc with manning's passing game...

 

Who's the only one to comment on this thus far, and laugh like it's actually funny? You gueesed it.....Mr egg!!

 

 

Two different stories dog. The extension with higher money, higher expectations....blah blah blah. Not the monkey I was referring to, and you know it. A COWBOY fan, commented about Eli wilting under pressure. This pressure he speaks of, came from a game in the PLAYOFFS, where we were the highest seed. Meaning Eli did well in the reg season to get us there. And this game came AFTER we already won a SB. The monkey prior to 2007-08 was not winning a playoff game. You know, the monkey Romo still has on his back? So, why would a fan of a team, who's QB still has to win ONE playoff game, let alone a SB, talk about my QB wilting?

[JMFP]

the dog would never diminish what manning has done...nor would the dog elevate him to greatness based on it either. not yet anyway. he made plays he had to make, but in the end, and we will differ on this, the giants won the super bowl last year because of their defensive scheme, and their execution on defense. they held the pats to 14 points, 7 going into the final few minutes...had they generated consistent offense, and executed well on offense, this game would have never come down to the final minute anyway...

 

Just to put what Eli did in proper perspective, consider this quote from an article printed Feb 2nd 2008:

 

Just call it fourth and won

 

...Call them the anti-comeback kids. If the Patriots have the lead heading into the fourth quarter, it's almost a lock that the opponent is going to lose. Since 2001, the Patriots are an astonishing 80-2 in games in which they've led entering the final frame, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. That's a .976 winning percentage. The next-best record belongs to the Steelers, who are 65-5-1 (.915)....

 

...If New England has the lead tomorrow entering the fourth quarter of Super Bowl XLII against the Giants and history follows suit, then history in the form of a 19-0 season is all but a certainty and the Lombardi Trophy will be paraded down Boylston Street for the fourth time in seven seasons....

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr...fourth_and_won/

 

The Patriots had the lead entering the 4th quarter. Eli answered that with a touchdown. And then, when Brady was Brady, and moved the Patriots down the field for what 97.6% of the time would be the game-winning TD, Eli once again drove the Giants down the field to win the Super Bowl against the most dominant team in NFL history.

 

There is only one description for that: Greatness.

[xxi-xxv]

the dog would never diminish what manning has done...nor would the dog elevate him to greatness based on it either. not yet anyway. he made plays he had to make, but in the end, and we will differ on this, the giants won the super bowl last year because of their defensive scheme, and their execution on defense. they held the pats to 14 points, 7 going into the final few minutes...had they generated consistent offense, and executed well on offense, this game would have never come down to the final minute anyway...

 

...... or had they gotten a defensive stop at 10-7 it all would not have mattered on the last drive. Its how you look at it. The man made the plays he had to make to ensure his team won. He did not do that this post season. He is not the first Qb to follow up a SB win with a bad playoff game, it happens. Happens to the best of them, his brother, Ben(although his 1st SB appearance was as bad as it gets), Brady, even Montana had some bad playoff games as did Favre and Young.

 

The point of the matter is, if winning a SB as a starting NFl quarterback is so easy how come there are currently only 8 current NFL Qb's have done so and 1 is a 40 year old back up now?

[gateb]

I think you would donate $ to Eli Manning's future 120 million dollar salary if the Giants asked. Yea, I would venture to say that Eli Manning did not win all of those games by himself. In fact, had the Pats scored 36 in the Superbowl they would have won. I would have been impressed by Eli had the Giants outscored them 37-36. But that game, as well as that run, was fueled by the defense.

It's a team effort. We don't win those 4 if our D doesn't play so well, and we don't win those 4 if Eli doesn't play so well.

 

Honestly, who cares who fueled it?

[ksm7]

Just to put what Eli did in proper perspective, consider this quote from an article printed Feb 2nd 2008:

 

 

 

The Patriots had the lead entering the 4th quarter. Eli answered that with a touchdown. And then, when Brady was Brady, and moved the Patriots down the field for what 97.6% of the time would be the game-winning TD, Eli once again drove the Giants down the field to win the Super Bowl against the most dominant team in NFL history.

 

There is only one description for that: Greatness.

 

how does that reference put anything in perspective? he made plays when he had to, yes...yes...yes. he is not a great QB. the dog has maintained that he could get there, but if the definition of greatness was dictated by a 4 game stretch in every player's career, they would be building a new hall of fame to account for all of the busts. let's see, doug williams would have a spot...jeff hostetler would have a spot...trent dilfer would have a spot (you remember the guy you said was among the top 8 QBs in the league last year b/c he had once won a super bowl...not that the dog is siting cridibility issues...)...mark rypien would have a spot...brad johnson would have a spot...etc...etc...down the line. but your right, let's define eli as a great QB becuase he lead 2 fourth quarter scoring drives in a game...

[feefifoefum]

Many qb's could have won those games? You mean beaten one of the top ranked defenses in Tampa, the 13-3 Cowboys in their house, and the Pack who never lose playoff games at home? Oh and top it off with beating an 18-0 team which averaged 36 points per game and broke all kinds of NFL records? All qb's could have done that.... and only thrown 1 interception in that stretch?

Romo could have done it? Romo couldn't beat a rookie qb in his own house, in the last game ever in the Cowboys stadium in a must win game. The football Gods gave him a miracle 2nd opportunity to make the playoffs in Philly and he choked it away again. But he could have won those 4 games EASILY huh? Interesting.

 

Even that wasn't his fault, as it was in Smith's hands and bounced off.

 

Everyone knows Eli played very well in the postseason last year, and that Romo never has and probably never will. He's a loser playing on a team of losers.

 

He's right about one thing, Eli doesn't win that ring without the rest of the team, especially the defense. But it goes both ways. Eli played flawlessy, and without that, they wouldn't have won it. You can't expect a Cowboy fan to comprehend the fact that football is a TEAM game, and no one man can do it alone. Eagle fans understand this, as they've been watching one man carry them for years, but keep coming up short.

[JMFP]

how does that reference put anything in perspective? he made plays when he had to, yes...yes...yes. he is not a great QB. the dog has maintained that he could get there, but if the definition of greatness was dictated by a 4 game stretch in every player's career, they would be building a new hall of fame to account for all of the busts. let's see, doug williams would have a spot...jeff hostetler would have a spot...trent dilfer would have a spot (you remember the guy you said was among the top 8 QBs in the league last year b/c he had once won a super bowl...not that the dog is siting cridibility issues...)...mark rypien would have a spot...brad johnson would have a spot...etc...etc...down the line. but your right, let's define eli as a great QB becuase he lead 2 fourth quarter scoring drives in a game...

 

If Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, or anyone else for that matter did what Eli did against the Patriots, then I would certainly think a case would be made to call them "great QB's".

 

Again, your perspective is dubious. About one year ago, the Patriots going perfect was basically a foregone conclusion among every football analyst out there. Nobody gave them a shot to beat New England, who at the time were widely regarded as the best team in NFL History.

 

And yes, I recall regarding Trent Dilfer highly, and frankly, stick by it. I think you measure a QB by winning big games, and Trent was a winner. If you wish to fault him for not being flashy, go ahead. If you want to judge him because he ended his career on a shabby 49ers team, feel free. But consider that Brian "the genius" Billick felt he could do better than Trent Dilfer, and never won anything of consequence without him.

 

You fixate on a "four game stretch", and ignore Eli's career of 4 consecutive trips to the playoffs, including a post-Super Bowl 12-4 record and improved stats across the board. Methinks The Dog needs to look in the mirror before questioning the objectivity of others.

[feefifoefum]

Come to think of it, Eli has played in 7 playoff games, and played well in 5 of them. In '07, he played very well in the 2nd half against Philly, from what I remember.

 

He's had 2 bad playoff games, and one of them was his 1st playoff game, and that's to be somehwat expected.

[BurnThePhilFans]

Come to think of it, Eli has played in 7 playoff games, and played well in 5 of them. In '07, he played very well in the 2nd half against Philly, from what I remember.

 

He's had 2 bad playoff games, and one of them was his 1st playoff game, and that's to be somehwat expected.

 

And our team wasn't even that good that year we played Philly. We got in on an 8-8 record. We were hardly expected to win that game.

[ksm7]

If Doug Williams, Trent Dilfer, or anyone else for that matter did what Eli did against the Patriots, then I would certainly think a case would be made to call them "great QB's".

 

Again, your perspective is dubious. About one year ago, the Patriots going perfect was basically a foregone conclusion among every football analyst out there. Nobody gave them a shot to beat New England, who at the time were widely regarded as the best team in NFL History.

 

And yes, I recall regarding Trent Dilfer highly, and frankly, stick by it. I think you measure a QB by winning big games, and Trent was a winner. If you wish to fault him for not being flashy, go ahead. If you want to judge him because he ended his career on a shabby 49ers team, feel free. But consider that Brian "the genius" Billick felt he could do better than Trent Dilfer, and never won anything of consequence without him.

 

You fixate on a "four game stretch", and ignore Eli's career of 4 consecutive trips to the playoffs, including a post-Super Bowl 12-4 record and improved stats across the board. Methinks The Dog needs to look in the mirror before questioning the objectivity of others.

 

doug williams had one of the single greatest performances in super bowl history playing injured against a heavily favored bronco team. the dog would go so far as to say what jeff hostetler did was at least equally as impressive as manning - particularly since he was a back up QB that took over late in the season, and, like manning, managed the team well down the stretch, playing mistake free and making plays when he had to...

 

if you are going to rank trent dilfer in the top 7 or 8 QBs a year ago, the dog has no need to even argue that point...

 

manning was much improved this year, but let's not ignore the fact that for the better part of his first four seasons, he was extremely inconsistent, and was not overwhelmingly supported by many of you here. when you look at team success, you have to look at the team...the giants as a team won over the last few years...manning managed things. that is fine by the dog, but let's not elevate him to something he is not yet achieved based on the lasst post season, which you, and not the dog want to continue to fall back on in these debates (i.e., he won a super bowl...and a super bowl MVP)...the dog is just saying stop getting so carried away. he may end up being a great QB, but it is way too soon to tell, and he has been way too inconsistent in his early career. the dog is begining to wonder if you are related to eli manning...

[boohyah]

You know, if only we had been smarter 2 years ago, we could have given Eli a deal similar to this one.

 

$67.5 million for 6 years.

$30 million guarenteed

$11.5 million signing bonus.

 

As this would have on par with quarterbacks at that time who....well, played underwhemingly* in the playoffs, you know, if they even made the playoffs.

 

And at that time Eli would have only been dating a blond.

 

Now, that's money well spent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* for Tree, if underwhelmingly is not a word I do not care.

 

 

 

[BadEgg]

If Eli Manning never wins another playoff game do we still describe him with one word "greatness"? If so, by all means, pay him $150,000,000 and erect a statue of him in place of the statue of liberty...

[boohyah]

doug williams had one of the single greatest performances in super bowl history playing injured against a heavily favored bronco team. the dog would go so far as to say what jeff hostetler did was at least equally as impressive as manning - particularly since he was a back up QB that took over late in the season, and, like manning, managed the team well down the stretch, playing mistake free and making plays when he had to...

 

if you are going to rank trent dilfer in the top 7 or 8 QBs a year ago, the dog has no need to even argue that point...

 

manning was much improved this year, but let's not ignore the fact that for the better part of his first four seasons, he was extremely inconsistent, and was not overwhelmingly supported by many of you here. when you look at team success, you have to look at the team...the giants as a team won over the last few years...manning managed things. that is fine by the dog, but let's not elevate him to something he is not yet achieved based on the lasst post season, which you, and not the dog want to continue to fall back on in these debates (i.e., he won a super bowl...and a super bowl MVP)...the dog is just saying stop getting so carried away. he may end up being a great QB, but it is way too soon to tell, and he has been way too inconsistent in his early career. the dog is begining to wonder if you are related to eli manning...

 

 

You realize that some of us here have said that Eli should not get that money right?. A relative wouldn't be so bold.

[xxi-xxv]

the dog would never diminish what manning has done...nor would the dog elevate him to greatness based on it either. not yet anyway. he made plays he had to make, but in the end, and we will differ on this, the giants won the super bowl last year because of their defensive scheme, and their execution on defense. they held the pats to 14 points, 7 going into the final few minutes...had they generated consistent offense, and executed well on offense, this game would have never come down to the final minute anyway...

 

Another thing that goes unmentioned about that game and the pace of it(which I believe GateB brought up)is the opening drive of the game. Giants used 8 minutes of clock and kept Brady and Co. off the field for a long time converting numerous 3rd down passes. It sort of set the tone and allowed the Pats offense to sit idly by and allow the defense much needed rest that they would need later in the game.

 

So your point about consistency and execution on offense could be rebutted that had they not executed properly on offense early on(lets say a 3 and out) and forced that defense to exert much needed energy early in the game maybe the Pats score more points.

[xxi-xxv]

doug williams had one of the single greatest performances in super bowl history playing injured against a heavily favored bronco team.

 

 

The Skins were a -3 underdog in Super Bowl XXII, hardly a "heavily favored" squad they faced in the Broncos a team that in the course of 4 years lost 3 Super Bowls by a combined 95 points to NFC opponents.

 

Its not like they were 18-0, had won 3 SB's in 6 years and were the highest scoring team in the history of the league and a 12 point favorite, they were a -3, which if they means "havily favored" I want to start betting with you

[JMFP]

the dog is begining to wonder if you are related to eli manning...

 

People remark about my greatness all the time, so distant kinship would not surprise me.