mickeef2

Again, Plow, you're totally missing the point. I don't care who the closers are for the other teams. I never said they need to go out and get someone else, or that there's a better option out there for them. When it's a tight game in October for the Mets, Billy Wagner will be the guy on the mound for them, and that's gotta make Met fans a little uncomfortable.

You just made my point. Seriously, the point is no matter how many games they win, his problems have got to be in the back of your mind until you get to the playoffs, and you can't like his chances based on what you see so far (even thought Plow says it doesn't matter what happens in the regular season, he's just as likely to be good in the playoffs as bad). I worry about Papelbon every time he comes into the game, too, just like I'd worry about Mariano. I'd worry about any closer because they're human. But some guys are way more human than others, and Wagner appears to be one of those guys.

I have to say I agree with Plow here. While Damon has a rag for an arm, he does a very good job of compensating for it by getting himself in position to throw, getting to balls quickly, and covering a alot of ground. He did the same thing with the Sox and I really can't remember a time when his arm cost the Sox a crucial run.

By the way, listening to the FAN this morning, and every other call is about Wagner. So I'd say many Met fans are worried about him.

I don't know, maybe your friends are dopey. My friends who are Met fans are already panicking about this guy. You can try to convince yourself all you want that regular season performance doesn't matter when it comes to the postseason, but your logic is retarded. Yeah, guys can have a great regular season and suck in the playoffs. But how many times does the reverse work? How about almost never. And as for Lidge, you can cross me off the list of "everyone"s who thought he'd be great in the postseason. I guess I've just watched enough baseball to know that you can't count on relief pitchers in the postseason just because they had a good regular season. But again, that doesn't mean there's an equally good chance that a guy who had a terrible regular season will have a great postseason.

Can't start an inning after two hours are up. Goes in the books as a tie.

I don't know if it's so much a vote of confidence in Hansen as much as it's a desire to get everything they can out of Papelbon. I mean, him closing this year was really a fluke, but now they're backed into a corner with it and can't take him out of the role. It's almost like he's done his job too well. There's also discussion of turning Hansen into a starter, and he has started games in the minors this year.

6-7-1 with one game left to play, against the first place team (they're 12-1). We haven't played a game in a week and a half now with all the rain. Some teams have only played 11 games so far. Anyway, Junior gets the starting nod for his final regular season Little League game ever on Wed. Then we start All-Stars.

Crawford's comments, if I remember correctly, were that steroids were rampant in baseball at the time, not particularly the Sox organization.

I wouldn't agree with the whole players union thing. I mean, guys stil pitch inside, hit each other, slide aggressively into 2nd, etc. I just think catchers are afraid to give up the body anymore. As for ARod, he consistently doesn't get in front of the ball on hard shots, either. Most of the time, he's a good enough athlete to pick it, but every now and then he doesn't get a ball because he didn't get in front of it. Thing that really bothers me is they give guys base hits on those, too, yet if you get in front of it and it bounces off your chest, they give you an error.

Seriously, how many times can this guy do that? There's gotta be a cap on it or something. The dude doesn't even get excited about it anymore.

Not that's been proven, my friend. Haven't heard the names of any current Sox come up in any conversations about steroids.

Yeah, but I'm telling you Foulke is a bad example because Sox fans weren't worried about him going into that post season. As for the difference between their numbers, about a half a run and, at this point in Foulke's '04 season, about 3 less blown saves (and again, he didn't blow four run leads, and pitched great against the Yankees the entire season- one of the reasons Sox fans weren't worried).

I guess you don't talk about "on pace" stuff for the same reason I don't talk about "could easily" stuff. I don't actually think Wagner could "easily" save his next 19, since he's already blown four of his first 18. It would seem to be anything but easy for him to get through the next 19 without a blown save.

Exactly- it's apples and oranges. A guy who was up for a cup of coffee years ago vs. two key players from the current team.

Yeah, but the difference is we know Giambi, Sheff, and Bonds cheated. Until someone proves a current Sox player used, I'm gonna assume they didn't, just like I'll give any other Yankee the benefit of the doubt. Paxton Crawford? Please. If the guy isn't willing to name names, I'm really not interested in what he has to say.

Kaye was talking last night about how he had a devastating injury in the minors from blocking the plate. He said when they asked Posada why he put his leg in harm's way on the play he said, "That's just how I play the game." I'm like, "Soooo...why don't you play the game like that anymore?" Not to sound like an old man, but when I was a kid there were always collisions at the plate. Baserunners looked forward to barreling over the catcher at the plate, and catchers were expected to stand there and take it. Nowadays, there's too much money to be made and this has practically disappeared from the game. Nobody blocks the plate anymore.

renraw, if anyone ever doubted you're a woman, this should clear it up.

This is a team that sends Giambi and Sheffield (when healthy) out on the field every day. How much more disgraceful can it get?

Yup, looks like I proved your point. First of all, wagner's blown four saves, not three, which puts him on a pace for about 11 or so, which is a lot more than 7. So now he's off the hook for the Yankee game? Whatever you say, Plow. I'm sure Met fans are comforted knowing Plow thinks that one wasn't Wagner's fault. You also contradict yourself by saying, in one breath, how great the Yanks are (debatable) and they can do this to anybody, and in the next breath you say Randolph was criticized for putting him in (which is ludicrous, it was absolutely the right move). And his 2.60 ERA is through the end of June (almost). Let's wait until September to compare ERAs. Regardless, we could go back and forth on this all day. The point is, as a Sox fan, I know Red Sox fans weren't concerned about Foulke going into that postseason. That's the bottom line. We knew his 7 blown saves weren't really an indicator of the way he'd pitched. To the contrary, I can guarantee you that Met fans will have their hearts in their throats when Wagner comes out of the pen in October.

I understand that, and I know they'll have no problem making the playoffs. I'm just predicting that he'll cost them big time at some point in October. There always comes a time for teams that win the World Series where they needed their closer to get crucial outs.

First of all, if you take a look back at those blown saves, three of the first four were not really his fault (errors, inheriting runners at third, etc.). Did you bother to look at the fact that he had a 2.17 ERA that year (that's considered pretty good, Plow). He was also 3 for 3 in saves vs. the Yanks that year (the barometer for Sox fans), with a 1.50 ERA. Foulke was solid that year, and Sox fans had nowhere near the concern about him going into the post season that Met fans will have with Wagner this year. Bad example. Edit: Just because it's you, Plow, I went back and checked. So far I've found his first two blown saves that year. #1 was a game they were winning 5-1, then Schilling and Embree got pounded and foulke inherited the tying run at third. He gave up a base hit, then later gave up a homer and lost. Not a great job, but not your typical 9th inning implosion, either. #2 was a total joke. Two outs in the ninth of a one-run game and he gives up a cheesy infield hit, then Manny drops a routine fly ball that should've been out #3 and the guy scores from first.

And how often does that happen? Foulke wasn't really considered a choker before that. Armando Benitez has been shaky at times in the regular season, too, and he sucked in the postseason. It takes a special breed to succeed in those situations. Hoffman doesn't have it. Lidge doesn't have it. Gordon. Wagner has this reputation for a reason.

...but your closer is a choker, and that's gotta scare you if this is gonna be a post-season team.

Crisp is starting to heat up, so it'll be interesting to see what they do. I know a lot of people are complaining about Coco as a leadoff man, but nobody was complaining after the first five games of the season before he got hurt. I'm loving the YOOOOOOOOUK chants on the road, though.