Allstarjim

No, I'm not in the meetings with Reese and Mara and the scouts. Although I wish I was when they drafted some of the guys they have in recent years. And Gallery is a better answer than what we have right now with Deihl moving out of position and Whimper backing him up. Although I think Deihl can do the job, God help us if he gets hurt. And if I'm wrong, explain to me how the Giants went 6-2 with Petitgout, and as soon as he got hurt, not only did the Bears game go tits up, we went on a 4 game losing streak with Eli's play being vastly diminished, and finished 2-6? The FACT is that we lost the season when we lost Petitgout last year, and we let him walk and we didn't do anything to replace him except move a guy out of position thereby weakening depth on the inside, with NO depth at LT. The addition of Staley would've given us a line of: Staley Deihl O'Hara Snee McKenzie Probably the best line in football if Staley lives up to his potential. If he doesn't, we can still move Deihl to the outside until Staley learns, and he could've backed up. Not to mention, we still could've had a CB with 1st round talent in the 2nd round in Eric Wright, because God knows we needed another WR. Admittedly, Wright has "character" issues, but it's a gamble I would take. Every draft pick is a gamble.

Rivers also as a Division title already and a pro bowl after one year of starting. Your argument still doesn't make the trade wash. It was, always has been, and always will be, a bad mistake by the Giants GM. And before you start with the whole, Rivers has the best RB in football argument, we also had an all-pro running back and a better WR corp. All that said, I am an Eli supporter because he is a NY Giant. But I will not be a homer and say that Rivers sucks and isn't as good and the trade was a good one because it wasn't.

There are guys who can make do. Eli needs it completely locked down because of his immobility and his sometimes inability to feel the rush, he needs a shutdown LT, not just an average or even slightly better than average LT. Many Draft experts also think Joe Staley is an immediate starter, plus he was the 2nd highest rated LT in the draft after Joe Thomas who went #3. I am not convinced that Joe Staley is a project, and actually believe he could've helped the Giants right away. And Guy Whimper is not the answer for Eli Manning.

VG - I have to take exception with this part of your argument. First of all, had we not worked the trade out for Eli, we probably still would've drafted Rivers and kept him, alienating Collins just as much, and more than likely he would've still wanted out. I am not convinced that we would not have been in the 14th position because we still could have ended up in the same situation with Warner as the starter and Rivers the backup. Rivers is a good QB. His first season starting he made the Pro Bowl. You can make any excuses, but I don't see how by year three, starting for two years makes a difference over sitting for two years. Fact of the matter is that Eli has had more experience in front of the top level of competiton, while Rivers has come in and played exceptionally well. I think by this point Eli should have shown more. Furthermore, with respect to the rankings, although Eli was rated higher it was very, very close. Manning, Rivers, and Roethlisberger will all rated extremely high, with Manning barely clipping Rivers. Rivers also had the better college stats, was a better proven college winner, and had/has more mobility than Manning. There was no reason to trade up when you have two players at the same position that are so closely rated. In truth, Accorsi did it because they fell in love with the Manning name and thought he had this mystical ability to like that of Elway to win the Superbowl. Even though Elway didn't win until the last two seasons of his long and storied career. Remember the quotes from Accorsi following that draft? It was a bad rationalization at the time, bad logic, and a terrible decision that they overpaid for in trading up from #4 to grab Manning, when Rivers was right there. That said, Eli is better than this ranking, and I would have him somewhere between 8-10. And Rivers, if not deserving of the number 5 ranking, should at worst be number 6, with only Donovan McNabb edging him.

This is where you are wrong. With Peavy and Young's ERA being so low, it is skewing the overall average. But 1-5, the Mets rotation is better. Peavy and Young are the better 1-2 punch, but Maddux, Wells, and I guess Hensley is out at this point, replaced with Germano (who has had tremendous command thus far), with those guys your back end of the rotation doesn't even come close to Perez, Maine, and Sosa. Germano has shown tremendous command of the strike zone and has a very low ERA, but he will need more than 4 starts to prove himself. One thing I notice about him is he doesn't strike out a lot of batters, only 3.24 K's/9, which tells me he's not blowing people away. Lets see how he responds when he gets rocked a little. I'd be very optimistic if I were you, but I'm not ready to give him a Cy Young award, either. Your bullpen isn't as good, either. I was surprised to see Heath Bell doing so well, it looks like you guys stole him from us for Ben Johnson. Bell wasn't impressive when we brought him up. Also, you are discounting Mota's return to the Mets. Give it another month. We'll throw Mota, Feliciano, Heilman, and Joe Smith at you before we get to Wagner. You guys throw Linebrink, Bell, Meredith, and Brocail before Hoffman. And we still have a chance to get Duaner Sanchez back this season. I like our guys, but it's close, and we play a much tougher schedule, to boot. Mets will be the first team in history this year to play every team who won a division in both the AL and the NL from the year prior. And the Mets extra series they have to play out of the division? The Dodgers, currently in 1st place.

Yikes, my bad. I didn't know the Pads swept the Brewers, and shortly after I wrote that, I regretted not putting the Pads there. The Pads have better pitching if not better hitting, and I favor pitching more. Plus the Pads play in a much better division and have a better record than the Brewers. Forgive me, and I will change the ranking, thanks for the correction.

An observation nobody points out is that Eli was doing very well (and the Giants were winning) until Luke Petitgout got hurt and was lost for the season in week 10. Eli is not effective when his blindside is not very well protected. But at least the Giants brass saw this and went out to replace Luke by drafting Joe Staley in the 1st round... oh wait, that didn't happen. They passed on Staley and drafted yet another CB. Of course, unlike Will Allen, Will Peterson, and Corey Webster, this one will be awesome.

Is that what we are paying him? Damn. That's an old Mets contract (see Vaughn, Mo and Alomar, Roberto).

1. NY Mets - best record, best rotation, best bullpen, best bench, best team... period. 2. LA Dodgers -2nd best record in the NL, they are the only team I'm worried about in the playoffs. So much talent, and Brad Penny has been awesome and likely will be the NL pitcher of the month in May 3. Atlanta Braves - They may drop with the season ending surgery to Mike Gonzalez, and they better hope Smoltz is ok. Still, they have tremendous young hitters with McCann, Francouer, Kelly Johnson, Scott Thorman, and Matt Diaz. Wickman is still not that great of a closer. The Braves should be better in 2008. 4. Arizona - Big Unit is coming around and with Brandon Webb and Livan Hernandez, I think the D'backs have the 2nd best starting rotation in the NL next to the Mets. Watch out for former Met prospect Yusmeiro Petit who recently had his first start of the season with the D'backs (7 IP, 2 ER, 5K, 0 BB in a hard luck loss). The D'backs are doing it with pitching. 5. San Diego - With Peavy and Chris Young, the Pads have a dominant 1-2 tandem. Adrian Gonzalez is quietly becoming one of the best 1st basemen in the NL. Look out for Justin Germano. So there it is, the top 5 teams in the NL. Honorable mention to the BREWERS! And to the Phils and Marlins, who I believe are better than their records indicate thus far. Special shout out to the Phils for sweeping the Braves last weekend, and that's the last time you will ever hear me praise a team from Philly (LOL).

I must say, this is the best I've felt about a team since the late 80's. And I didn't know any better then. I was 10 years old when the Mets won it all in '86. The great thing about our team is we don't need to make any moves whatsoever, unless we have a catastrophic injury or two. What I'm most excited about is the pitching. Who is the ace? Many people said it was Glavine at the start of the season and he has pitched well (except for the 1st innings of games) but I can't say he is our ace. That honor should go to Orlando Hernandez.... or Oliver Perez.... or John Maine, I just don't know! I will have to say El Duque. El Duque has been completely dominant and because of his array of off-speed stuff, he could pitch a complete game and not get that tired. However, ESPN just wrote an article about Oliver Perez talking about he is emerging as one of the best left-handed starters in the league. You really have to give it up to Omar Minaya and Rick Peterson. I think I could walk on to the Mets and Rick Peterson could turn me into an pitcher that could get outs, and I can't throw harder than 75! Then you look at John Maine, who despite a few rough starts in May, has been amazing and was the NL's pitcher of the month in April. Sosa has been brilliant as well, and soon Pedro will be back! This is how I look at the order of our rotation right now: 1. El Duque 2. Oliver Perez 3. John Maine 4. Tom Glavine 5. Jorge Sosa The top 4 guys could win 15 games, even though El Duque has a lot of ground to make up. Sosa would have a chance, but he will more than likely be out of the rotation when Pedro comes back. Oliver Perez has a chance at a 20 win season and maybe even a Cy Young award, and Maine has an outside chance at that as well. I truly believe that we have the best starting rotation in all of baseball, which was considered a question mark by most baseball pundits when the season began. And the bullpen is in good shape as well. Billy Wagner still pisses me off sometimes because he will walk the leadoff batter every now and then, and you just don't do that. But he has been much more consistent this year. Mota is back after paying the price for his error in judgement, and I think he will be lights out again. With Heilman, Joe Smith, and Pedro Feliciano, I think we have the best bullpen in the majors as well. It will be even better if Duaner Sanchez can come back this year and return to form as the dominant setup man in baseball (we will see, but it's encouraging he is now allowed to lift weights again). The only argument I have is why they sent Ambiorix Burgos to the minors when he has been doing a good job, but left Schoenweis up with the big club when he has been terrible. Sele has not pitched well, either. The only reason is because Schoenweis is a lefty, but I really don't care. We have Pedro Feliciano, and I'd rather have a little imbalance in the pen as far as righty's and lefty's if I didn't have to see Schoenweis again. Even with injuries to Moises Alou, Jose Valentin, and Shawn Green, we still have been winning. That's because we have the best bench in baseball. Damion Easley has won a few games for us with big homeruns, and he has 7 already! Chavez is probably the best all-around 4th outfielder in the game, and Gomez, although still has a big learning curve, is at least an upgrade on defense over Green while's he's out, as well as being the fastest man on the team, which is really saying something. The lone guy I have a problem with is David Newhan. He has not hit, although he does know how to earn a walk. Julio Franco has not hit well, either, although he has come up with some big timely hits. I think he's developing a slow bat as the age is finally catching up with him, and it's a shame. I really want to see him play at 50 years old, and he's a great guy, but he's got to really cut down on all the swings and misses. Ramon Castro also deserves some praise because seemingly everytime he has given Lo Duca a day off, he's come up with big hits as well as played his usual terrific defense and handled the pitchers well. Most of the time I would admit when I am being a homer. But not this time. The proof is in the pudding, and these guys have been performing, and the Mets are on pace to win over 100 games this season. If they don't have the best rotation (that should be even better when Pedro comes back), then who does? If they don't have the best bench in baseball, whose is better? Who has the better bullpen than the Mets? With all these wins, it's easy to forget that Beltran hasn't been consistent with the bat yet, Delgado is just starting to come around, Reyes is in a slump, and Wright has mostly been slumping all season so far. When these hitters get going like we know they can, and if they can get going all at the same time, then it wouldn't surprise me to see the Mets win 10 or 15 games in a row. LETS GO METS!

You want Bonds to tarnish Hank's HR record because of the sports media? This is a race-related issue, as evidenced by the ESPN/ABC poll. The media, nor white America, would've embraced McGwire had we known then what we know now. There is nothing to be hypocritical about. We've (white america and the media) rejected McGwire (now), with much, much less evidence than what Bonds has mounted against himself. We've rejected Rafael Palmeiro for one bad test. And the only guy that has really escaped any real criticism from the sports media is Sammy Sosa, who may have juiced, too, given his rapid development. Remember, Sammy is not opposed to "bending" the rules, if you remember the corked bat episode. I fail to see any hypocrisy of the sports media in this case, nor any reason to root for a cheater. Besides the fact, Bonds already testified that he did indeed use "The Cream" just didn't know what he was putting in his body at the time. If you believe that, I've got some ocean-front property in Arizona to sell you.

You've got to be kidding. He's Henry Aaron. Never went on a muscled-up metamorphosis, either, plus, if that stuff was really going on back then, we would have heard about it by now, because somebody would've, either a) gotten sick from it and confessed (a la Lyle Alzado), or b) someone else would've blown the whistle. You're talking about Hank Aaron, who started his career in 1954, for crying out loud. He played for 22 years, and I'll tell you, back then, steroids were just not used in athletics, outside of MAYBE bodybuilding, because they were just too dangerous. Steroids began to be used by pro athletes to enhance performance in the late 70's at the earliest, but certainly in the 80's. That was a different time and culture and I can assure you Hank Aaron didn't do steroids. They just didn't have the stuff they have today, and it was too dangerous. Not up for debate, and you're kidding yourself if you think it is.

With every HR Bonds hits these days, it seems to lead SportsCenter. As 755 grows closer, fans are either growing more sick everyday, or becoming more excited everyday. Other than SF fans, your skin color likely is a determinant of which category you are in. ESPN recently cited a poll about the HR chase with regards to race. In the ESPN/ABC poll, Blacks are relatively split on their belief that Bonds knowingly used steroids. 37% say they believe he did, whereas 36% say he did not, with 26% having no opinion. The same question put to whites, a whopping 76% believe he did, while 12% say he did not. Asked if they were rooting for Bonds to break the record, however, 74% of blacks surveyed are rooting for him, while only 18% are not. For whites, only 28% are rooting for him, while 60% are hoping he falls short. I have a friend (who is Black) and I asked him about Bonds some time ago. Like the majority of blacks, although he believes that Bonds probably cheated, he is rooting for him to break the all-time HR record. He feels, like many blacks, that because Mark McGwire was completely embraced during his record breaking HR season when he passed Maris, that white America is now hypocritical of their criticism of Bonds now. They note while McGwire was celebrated as a national hero, Bonds has been turned into a pariah. Thus, they don't care what Bonds did, they want him to break the record. This is what doesn't make sense to me. Nevermind there was no known evidence at the time that McGwire was juicing during his record breaking season. Nevermind that McGwire never underwent the improbable, physical transformation in a rapid amount of time that Bonds did. Nevermind that McGwire has since fallen from grace in the American public since his Congressional testimony. Nevermind that it was Bonds who has the mountain of evidence against him, that he has not only injected, used "The Cream" as well as human growth hormone (HGH - which they still cannot test for in mlb). The fact is, Bonds already broke that tainted single-season HR record. He is now about to surpass Hank Aaron. Who was not a juicer, but endured the worst society could throw at him during his run at the Babe's all time HR mark, enduring death threats and countless hate mail. It's Aaron's record that Bonds will break with his juiced up HR swings. Aaron, a national hero that we all embrace, holding a record that is now pure, but waiting for Bonds to smudge it in the coming weeks. And last I checked... Aaron is black. He is the black hero who's accomplishment black America should cherish and wish to protect, but somehow, that is just not happening. A shame that race would play such a factor AGAIN in the all-time HR race, this time, and ironically, with the majority of black America in the wrong.

Mason Crosby - he was my 6th round choice in my "What we could have had" draft. I wrote a novel and it got lost when I submitted. I will re-write, but not now. It was going to be in the draft grades topic.

Doing well, Charlie, thanks. I haven't gotten a chance to be on the boards in awhile so I decided I'd drop by since we have the draft to talk about. I'm in Tampa now, and doing well. Good to see you here as well.

Any team that gets Briggs is instantly better. He is one of the top 2 or 3 guys at his position. Draft picks you get a maybe. In Briggs you get an All-Pro.

OMG I wrote an absolute novel and replied to this topic, and it didn't go through and I lost everything. That sucks. I will do it again but not now. Bottom line, I give Reese a C-, would've taken Joe Staley in the first, and the rest I will tell you why at another time. IMO, we did get some good players, but our draft could've been much better and I will elaborate and show you what could have been had the Giants prioritized their picks better.

I'm with you on Cowher, but I really don't want Belichek as our HC. Not that I don't think he would perform the job well, I just can't stand the guy. He's such a smug asshole, IMO. We just have to let this next year play out and see what happens.

Wrong again (as usual). Tiki had 58 receptions this year, the most since 2003. His receiving yardage was on the lower end of past years but still close. Barber bailed us out so many times in the passing game and once again had over 2000 yards from scrimmage. Figures you would insinuate that Barber didn't do enough, you know you can attribute just about everyone of Jacobs' TD runs to Barber as he was the one getting us down their just about every time. No surprise Nas is wrong again, just like he is about nearly every subject.

This just in... I don't think Michael Strahan will be retiring anytime soon... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2730126 I don't understand why you force your wife to sign a pre-nup, and then try to keep YOUR OWN PRE-NUP from being enforced. If you are going to have your wife sign something like that, then you should make the terms acceptable to you. Strahan screwed himself. Good to keep that depth at DE, though!

You guys are underestimating what Briggs could do for our defense, IMO. You have to stop the run. Adding Briggs alongside Pierce and possibly Arrington would be fierce. It doesn't matter who you have in pass coverage, Clements, Samuel or whoever, if you don't pressure the QB or can't stop the run, that's why I think Briggs would be a much, much bigger lift to our defense.

This is ridiculous. I can't believe what I'm hearing from some of you. Some of you saying he used the Giants and media, others saying that he was disinterested in games since his announcement of his retirement, and that he was disinterested in the playoff game. I don't post a lot anymore, but this topic got me going. And that Tiki is an "iffy" hall of famer? And worse, that Tiki is SELFISH? All of this is nonsensical. Tiki is probably my favorite football player of all-time, and I'll tell you why, and why you guys are incorrect in characterizing Tiki the way you have. First, with regard to him acting disinterested or not playing hard, that's just dumb (no offense) he yet again had one of his finest seasons. The stats were already posted, I will not post again. What specific plays come to mind that he did not play hard? Without Tiki, we wouldn't even have sniffed the playoffs, because it sure as hell wasn't Eli lifting us to victory, and the defense was inconsistent. Without Tiki, we don't win 5 games this year. I specifically remember Tiki in the playoff game giving second effort to get a critical first down, and he had a fantastic game as well. His run to give us 1st and goal at the 4 was vintage Tiki, yet we had to settle for a field goal thanks to Eli making bad decisions on where to throw the ball. All year Tiki has been sure handed and at times was virtually our entire offense, in both the running and passing game. After Amani went down it was Tiki who became the security blanket out of the backfield for Eli, and Many times Tiki would take that 2 yard pass and turn it into 7 to 10 yards fighting for the first down. Tiki always would get another yard and a half or so after the initial hit, and his ability to keep moving forward was underappreciated, and you will see that next year, hopefully Jacobs was taking notes. There is no reason to suggest Tiki was underperforming. I think when it came to game time, Tiki left it all out on the field. He said he hopes he will be remembered for that by the Giants fans, and I certainly will. As for the New York media and the Giants, Tiki made himself. There have been plenty of great Giants players that did not make use of the NY media, and plenty of players in other cities that have turned their fame into lucrative TV deals, to mention a few, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Shannon Sharpe, Tom Jackson, Howie Long, Chris Collingsworth, and the list goes on and on and on. Tiki worked hard and seized opportunities that were available to him when they came to him. For that, he should be considered a role model and admired. If you were giving career advice, you would certainly say, look at Tiki Barber and what he did, emulate him. Many other players don't have the smarts or motivation to do what Tiki did. Some have the attitude that they are set for life, why do they need to worry about a second career? And they will get out of the NFL and not have anything to do with themselves. Tiki was smart about it and planned for his life after football, and took the opportunities that were there. That's intelligence, not selfishness. And more evidence to the fact that it was Tiki's drive more than NY doing for him... Tiki earned his Bachelor's Degree in Science and Commerce at the University of Virginia, an highly regarded academic institution. He was also his high school class valedictorian. This is a man who is a do-er, who sets goals for himself and works hard to accomplish them. He had already acheived a lot for himself even before he was drafted by the NY Giants. Speaking of selfishness, Tiki has given much of himself. He and his brother this past year made a $1 million donation to the University of Virginia, Tiki has participated in reading programs for kids, as well as a host of other charitable causes and community involvement. But there is one story about Tiki that tells me of his character and his unselfishness: Many players who make it to the Pro Bowl see the trip as a paid vacation in Hawaii for themselves and their families. It's an exhibition game, you get a big bonus for going usually from your team, plus money for playing in the game from the NFL. Plus you're not expected to play that hard or take the game that seriously, it's more of a relaxation time for players and their families more than anything else. At his hotel in Hawaii, Tiki was approached by a Captain in the US Army stationed there in Hawaii, I believe at Schofield barracks. This Captain invited Tiki to do morning PT with his unit the following morning. As many of you know, PT is performed at 5:30 am-6:00 am at the latest, sometimes earlier. It's done before the sun comes up, while most of us are still catching z's. On such short notice especially, most players would've declined the offer, because who wants to get up that early on their vacation in Hawaii to run 3 miles or so the following day? Tiki did a great thing though, by taking that commander up, and ran with the troops on his Hawaii vacation. Of course it was made into a big deal by the unit, and the media ran a little story, but it was not a PR gesture at all, IMO. It was an unplanned opportunity to do something nice for the troops, and I will never forget that Tiki is the kind of man who will wake up at 4:30am and run with some Army soldiers while on a Hawaii vacation. That is an unselfish, generally all-around good guy. Has Tiki been perfect? No. I don't expect that of anybody. I'm also sure it's difficult to bite your tongue when you are giving so much of yourself to win, especially when you are constantly hammered by the NY and national media. He is not alone in sticking the proverbial foot in his mouth this year. Shockey, Burress, Strahan, and even Coughlin himself have said things "in the media" they shouldn't have. Really, they are just answering questions they are being asked. It's the reporters that blow the comments into huge news stories. But they have to know that their words can be inflammated on a national level. So he's made mistakes in that department. Again, I don't think that indicts him as anything but someone who just answered questions honestly. As for Tiki's hall of fame chances, he will be a first ballot inductee, no doubt in my mind. He is certainly not an "iffy" proposition for the Hall. Consider that there are only 5 players in NFL history that have 400 receptions and 10,000 yards rushing. Tiki is one of them. Walter Payton, Marshall Faulk, Marcus Allen, and Thurman Thomas, all current or future Hall of Famers, are the other four. He also holds pretty much every Giants non-passing, offensive related record. If he had won a single SuperBowl, nobody would even have any debate, but I don't think that fact will keep him out of the Hall from the first ballot he's eligible. I am saddened that Tiki is choosing to retire. But I respect that decision. He is ready for life after football. He is not wavering in his decision. Good for him, he is a man that will be successful in anything he chooses to do, just as he always has. He has a wonderful second career in front of him, and I wish him the best, and thank him for the memories I will have of him in a NY Giant uniform. He is one of the only Giants whose jersey I would buy and wear with pride (as I have). I wish he would play another year or two, because he is still at the top of his game. But the thing you guys have to remember is that the reason that players (particularly running backs) taper off at some point is because their bodies have taken too much of a beating over the years and they live with the pain for the rest of their lives. He is leaving while he still has a healthy body, and healthy legs. None of you have a Demarcus Ware knocking you out before you hit the ground, none of you have Jeremiah Trotter going after your knees every Sunday. Tiki played his heart out for us, left it all out on the field, and is choosing to leave at a time when he is still on top. He's not leaving like some other players who have nothing left and you watch them sadly play at a level that is a mere shadow of their former selves. In my mind, Tiki is the greatest Giant we've ever had on the offensive side of the ball, and I will miss seeing him play, wish he would change his mind, but wish him nothing but the best!

Weinke is not old, he's only 34, and his body has taken a lot less of a pounding than most football players his age. Weinke had some great throws and bad throws, I did not think it was going to be any advantage having him in there rather than Delhomme. Jake has been crappy this year anyway. I'm glad the Giants took Weinke seriously.

eh, double post. <edited>

You have no basis for this claim. Your evaluation of the ACC is off. It's a pretty good football conference. It's better than the PAC-10, not as good as the SEC, and almost as good as the Big 10. That's just the truth. I live ACC football as an FSU fan, and I watch plenty of SEC games, too, living in FL. Your argument that teams key on LT is off, too, because we also have Tiki. In addition to Tiki, Eli has had the benefit of much better receivers than Rivers, like Plax, Shockey, and Toomer. Rivers has had to win games with his arm and has done so. The side arm thing is over-rated. It's not really side-arm anyways. And he's already shown more than Manning has in one year. Additionally, Eli in college played teams like Memphis (who he lost too, by the way), Vandy, Louisiana-Monroe, Texas Tech, Arkansas State, South Carolina (also not as good then), and that was just his senior year. So he didn't exactly run the gauntlet every week, dude. That's 6 games against average or poor teams. And he threw 10 INT's. Rivers? 7, despite 42 more pass attempts. And he threw for nearly 900 more yards than Eli, completing 72% of his passes. That denotes accuracy. No matter who you are playing, you still have to be damn accurate to compete 72%. Let me ask you... what has been the knock on Eli? Could it be accuracy? You want to talk about talent? With that side arm delivery of Rivers, he's more accurate than Eli, more mobile, more of a competitor, has stepped up his game more and more times than Eli, won all his bowl games, and has put up better numbers in year 1 than Eli has in 3 years. What is your basis for saying that he is not HALF the talent of Manning? Rivers is not my hero, but I recognize a great QB when I see one, and he is great. I don't see it in Manning. I don't I see an slightly better than average QB in Eli. That is a damn shame but that's what I see so far. And you can't tell me with a straight face, that if San Diego offered Rivers, Merriman, and Kaeding to the Giants for Manning right now, that you wouldn't be jumping out of your chair begging them to do it. I would be, because we would have a significantly better team. I'll support Eli, but I'm waiting for him to prove me otherwise that the trade wasn't a mistake. It's likely not going to happen. Stop being a homer.