parlintm

Nah, Martin it's ok. I actually appreciate the kindness that you show towards the members of the board. I just thought that last post went a tiny bit overboard. I was just joking... no harm meant by it.

Neither do I. I think he falls into the Chad Jackson/Santonio Holmes category of players who have an outside chance of falling to us but it's highly unlikely.

Well if he's not available, I still think Demeco Ryans would be a great pick. Or Chad Greenway but I think that it's even less likely he drops to 25 than Carpenter.

DEFINITELY.

I wouldnt be suprised if he actually really wants Carpenter and didnt want to talk about it so he changed the subject to discuss a player that we have no chance of getting. Cromartie's going to be long gone before we pick. The whole, throwing people off thing. He might be pathetic but hes not retarded so as to discuss players in depth that he's targeting. As for the 2003 Draft -- for those of you who critisize EA (looking at you fab 4) who did you guys want and who would you have picked instead of Osi and WJ in the first 2 rounds? Here's a couple of links to refresh your memory if you forgot that draft.... http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/draft/drpros03.htm http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/2003

The sports section of the Star Ledger had their draft preview today and Maroney is who they had us taking too. Although, as has been mentioned before, EA rarely tips his hand so if it's all over the star ledgr, I doubt we take him.

You can stand up now.

Yeah, that would be disappointing.

Despite what the fab 4 say, I think EA (and Tom Coughlin) have done a phenomenal job in the past few years putting this team together. A few key acquisitions: Eli Manning Gibril Wilson Osi Umenyiora Sam Madison Lavar Arrington Plaxico Burress Jeremy Shockey Will Demps William Joseph Brandon Jacobs Kareem Mckenzie Chris Snee Antonio Pierce and Tiki Barber I have complete faith that they will make a good move this draft and come away with at least one very talented player. If they trade up to get someone, I'm sure it will be worth it. For those who hate WJ, check out this pre 2003 draft column. Who would you have taken? http://www.bigblueinteractive.com/draft/drpros03.htm

I have no problem whatsoever adding another quality (young) linebacker to this defense. Actually, I think it's a big priority. Maybe only behind getting a defensive tackle and just ahead of wide receiver and cornerback.

Forgot to add, I think Watson's the front-runner right now. And I think a trade down to at least Indianapolis is very likely.

I think Bobby Carpenter is the only legitimate pick out of those three. Moss has a VERY small possibility, although I would not approve of any of it. I trust EA not to take him, though. I would narrow our first round possibiliites down to the following: Bobby Carpenter Demeco Ryans Chad Greenway Antonio Cromartie Ty Hill Gabe Watson Deangelo Williams Eric Winston Nick Mangold Trade Down

A few points I want to make: 1. There's no way that we will head into the third round w/o having drafted a DT. That either means Watson at 25 or one of the aforementioned players at 56. 2. I disagree slightly with Hound's statement that Watson is a reach at 25. He's either the pick or he isn't. If he works hard he will get onto the field and be productive. If he doesnt give a shit and takes training camp off he will never get onto the field with Tom Coughlin as a coach and therefore is not worth a pick at any spot. If you look up boom or bust in the dictionary you will see a picture of his fat ass. 3. I'm not opposed to the theory of drafting Watson in the first and then grabbing another DT in either the second or third. That way we get some solid competition and training camp should produce at least one serviceable DT.

2 things: 1. There's no chance he falls to us. He's easily one of the top 2 corners in the draft (if not the top) and there are simply too many teams looking for quality CB's in this draft for us to have any realistic shot of getting him without trading up. 2. If for some reason he were to fall to us, I think he's a pretty obvious choice and I think if I had listed him 90% of the votes would have been for him. I wanted to see what everyone thought of the other players.

Honestly, I don't know exactly what it takes to be a solid contributer as a defensive tackle in the NFL. I don't know what schemes and defenses that they need to learn or if it's simply the physicality of playing with the big boys that people struggle with. I'm not anywhere close to being an NFL player and don't have the slightest clue as to what they need to do. Obviously it starts with talent because some guys can just come in and play, but those are few. As for the rest of them, I think it takes some combination of intelligence and hard work before it clicks. Given what I've read and seen about DD, I think that he has as good or better of a chance of contributing from day 1 as any of the round 2 DT's. He was honored for his strong academic performance throughout school which means two things: 1. He's not a moron and should be able to grasp the schemes that are thrown his way during camp and 2. That he was committed academically, something most college players are not. He was also praised repeatedly for being the hardest worker off the field. Given his intelligence and his work ethic, I don't see why we can't expect him to contribute right away. We need our DT to work hard and eat up blockers so that everyone else can do their jobs. Given our HC, I think a strong work ethic would go a long way. We need a contributor this year and I think the chances of getting one out of DD are much higher than many of the other DT options.

I agree that Watson and Wroten are better prospects that DD. It's unlikely that either of them will be available when we pick in the second round. So in order to get one of them, we would have to use a 1st rounder on them. Im not completely opposed to the idea of drafting Watson at 25 but for the sake of discussion, I'm trying to analyze who I'd like at 56 or in the third round. I think, given our need, waiting until the third on a guy is too risky. So that means that if we don't draft Watson, we HAVE to use our second round pick on a DT. The list of potential candidates are: Rod Wright, Dusty Dvoracek, Jon Lewis, John Mcargo, Orien Harris and Jesse Mahelona. IMO, Harris and Mahelona can be crossed off the list. I dont want either under any circumstance in the second. Mcargo never got double teamed due to the talent surrounding him. I forget who said that they watched a lot of his games and don't think hes worth it. It seems as if that might be the general consensus around the league. Jon Lewis seems to be a slower, weaker Dusty and given a choice between those two, Id definitely take DD. So it comes down to Dvoracek and Wright. For me, the deciding factor is figuring out what we are looking for in a DT. The Giants have playmakers throughout their entire front 7. We don't need a gamebreaking DT, we need a guy who is going to play hard and occupy blockers so that Pierce, Arrington, Demps, Gibril and everyone else can come up and make the plays. Rod Wright has more potential than DD but I think that there's a much greater chance that he is a bust. The Giants are ready to win right now and they need a DT that can step on the field right now. There are fewer players that are as hard working as DD in this draft. I would love to have him on the team since I know what he brings to the table. With this pick, I want as little risk as possible and Dusty gives me that. Whearas Wright has been knocked for his inconsistency. I've read this a few too many times about him, "An underachiever who doesnt always play up to his physical ability... Is not hard working.... Technique is lacking." Also, much of his potential lies in his ability to add weight. Until then, he's not better than Dusty. As I said before, we need this DT this season and waiting a year or two for Wright to fill out and learn techniques is not something that I want to do.

Here's an interesting article on putting together the stats from the combine and pro-day. Check out the chart with the top rated players. Bunkley, Ngata and Dvoracek are the only DT's on the list. http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9326200 Nice post Pizan. I was thinking of how to say what you said, but you did it better than I could have hoped.

My Mock: 1 Houston- Reggie Bush 2 New Orleans - Ferguson 3 Tennessee - Vince Young 4 N.Y. Jets - Leinart 5 Green Bay - AJ Hawk 6 San Francisco - Mario Williams 7 Oakland - Vernon Davis 8 Buffalo - Ngata 9 Detroit - Huff 10 Arizona - Jay Cutler 11 St. Louis - Bunkley 12 Cleveland - Manny Lawson 13 Baltimore - Winston Justice 14 Philadelphia - Chad Jackson 15 Denver (from Atlanta)- Santonio Holmes 16 Miami - Ernie Sims 17 Minnesota - Jimmy Williams 18 Dallas - Donte Whitner, S, OSU 19 San Diego - Antonio Cromartie 20 Kansas City - Kamerion Wimbley 21 New England - Chad Greenway 22 Denver (from Washington)- Leonard Pope 23 Tampa Bay - Jonathan Joseph 24 Cincinnati - Tamba Hali 25 TRADE Indianapolis - Deangelo Williams 26 Chicago - Bobby Carpenter 27 Carolina - Demeco Ryans 28 Jacksonville - Thomas Howard 29 N.Y. Jets (from Denver) - Lendale White 30 TRADE New York Giants - Gabe Watson 31 Seattle - Richard Marshall 32 Pittsburgh - Nick Mangold

I think it would be fun to do a Mock draft game for those interested. Here's how I think we should do it. Everyone posts their mock draft and you get scored based on accuracy. Here's how I'm going to score it. Correct spot, correct team: 5 pts Off by 1 spot: 3 pts Off by 2 spots: 1 pt Right team, wrong position: 4 pts Ex. Let's say you have Indy drafting Deangelo Williams at #30 but they trade up to #25 to get him. Correct spot, wrong team: 4 pts. If you have Reggie Bush going 1st overall to Texans but Jets trade up for him you get 4 pts. ** YOU CAN PUT TRADES INTO THIS ** The winner gets mad props and a swimsuit calender featuring the fab 4.

Ok, I'm going to try this again. This time, I think I've got everybody on it that has a reasonable chance to be there when we pick.

I would be in favor of that, especially since there is a good chance that one of our starting DT's is a rookie. It would provide great competition and allow the coaches to reward a player for hard work and a good understanding of the defense. This would be ideal if we drafted Watson since we would have some insurance if he turns out to be a bust and it would give him motivation to win that starting spot and keep it. I would be fine with a draft that looked like: Round 1 - Watson Round 2 - Daniel Manning Round 3 - Dusty D. Although, this draft stategy lends itself to trading down and picking up an extra third rounder.

Can someone explain this to me? Why is he a reach in the second?

DT is the only position that we NEED to focus on in the draft. All other draft picks are for depth but this is a position that could give us an impact player that can and will start for us from day 1. We've addressed the issue regarding value at the #25 spot. Watson is the only guy that is worthy of consideration, but I'm not sold on him and is a bit too risky for our needs, although he would be the proverbial "swinging for the fences" pick, which I'm not entirely against. In order to maximize the value with our pick, I think we should target a DT in either the second or third round. Trading up to the top of the third seems like a logical move, worthy of consideration. Anyway, here's my breakdown of the DT's in this draft: Here's my big board for the DT's: Ngata Bunkley (both way out of reach even for trading up) -- Gabe Watson -- Not worthy of 25th pick and I think we can get better value with DT's later in the draft. Pass. DUSTY DVOACEK - Smart, physical, quick, hardest worker.... basically everything you look for in a DT. He's the man to get. Claude Wrote - Talented but a few too many issues for me. Failed the drug test for example. John McCargo - People write him off because he played w/ 2 great DE's. I don't think our DE's are too shabby. Can't ignore his productivity. Rod Wright - Not my favorite but has the physical attributes needed to be good. IMO, these are the list of guys to choose from. If we don't get one of these guys in the draft I'll be very disappointed. I would be OK to take any of these guys in the second round. They are listed in order of preferance. ---- Here's a list of players that I DONT want us to draft: Orien Harris - Lots of injuries. Doesnt have the build to be great. I see him being injury prone and a mediocre DT in the NFL. Jesse Mahelona - Only good at pass rushing. We have plenty of those on our D. We need run stuffers, something he is not. ----- Guys I like, but don't think are in the same league as the first list: Babatunde Oshinowo Barry Cofield Manai Brown Titus Adams Tommy Jackson Jonny Jolly Domata Peko Ideally, Id like to see us get a first list guy and pick up one of these others late in the draft.

whoa! when it mattered.... pro day and the combine!?!?! i think this epitomizes the problem that many people have with the draft. they think it's only about numbers and 40 times, bench reps and shuttle runs. then they overlook someones entire career with a line that it doesnt matter!?? this is why someone as good as tatupa dropped last year because people refuse to acknowledge consistent play and production if someone doesn't meet the ideal measurements. while every year there are players that have been non-productive their entire football lives but perform well at the combine so they get drafted higher than they should. just remember that it's about resuts, not 40 speed. lendale white PROVED IN COLLEGE that he has the talent to be a great NFL running back and as a USC fan (hard to believe) you should know that more than anyone. you shouldnt need him to run a 40 to prove it to you.

Dont know how accurate this is, or if its just speculation but its an interesting thought. 25. Houston Texans TRADE (from NY Giants)...OT Eric Winston (Miami-Florida)....The Giants just signed Lavar Arrington and have a big need at the DT position but none are worthy here...Houston wants to leapfrog the Jets to take Winston and send the Giants their fourth and sixth round picks for the switch...Giants Gm Accorsi sees Santana Moss as a younger version of Steve Smith and will take him if he's available in Houston's spot..if not...a DT like Gabe Watson is a possibility. http://www.eastcoastsportsnews.com/2006Draft.html Im more interested with the trade itself than the actually pick of Moss. Id much rather take Watson than moss there. Although, Id ideally like to trade down further and get try to get a third rounder.