Cowboyz

yea well that is a meaningful statement since rookie WR invariably start and play effectively their rookie years.

 

 

Criticizing a college player for playing against college players?? That's logical

i don't agree. wr is one of the hardest positions to start a rookie right away.

if amukamara's a true elite talent (top ten draft) he should be judged by his performance vs the best not the guy he shut out from western kentucky.

Watch the games please, explain how Rothlisberger played bad against the cards and the packers that would warrant him being on this list.

 

You need to pick lists that have some credibility, not cheap lists that contains a certain Giants QB just to try and piss off a board.

first, this list is about superbowl wins, so the rapists loss against the packers isn't part of the topic.

again, he has THE worst performance, in the superbowl, of any qb to win it. that is a qualifier.

his other victory was nearly as unimpressive.

At THIS point in time.. and over the past decade Which is and has been the better team.. Giants or Cowboys? Seriously Cowboyz, badegg, and Dog?

of those two, giants.

of the nfl, neither of those two.

No one has gotten a coherent post from you, let alone a "good" post. I was just noting your selective attention, which I should be used to. The Dog has it, too, it must be all you Cowboys fans.

:yawn

And Rob Ryan's illustrious previous history makes you confident how? The Giants O beat themselves with bad Eli turnovers and fumbles. Also the Giants D was top 10 in Total YPG, Passing YPG and Rushing YPG. Damned good for a new D coordinator. If the Giants had a shot at Perry or Rob it's not even a discussion.

rob hasn't been in the nfl long, but he has significantly improved the defenses he has coached.

ypg, ypg, ypg. so you're sign of a good coordinator is one who is top ten in yards allowed, but 16th in scoring defense (rob's defense was 9th btw)

and this vs meager competition. how did perry do vs winning teams? million dollar question.

1-4 vs winners. 9-2 vs losers. combined record of teams beaten by the gints 52-86. and that includes an 11-5 chicago team that was still learning a new offense.

An inch, a foot....doesn't matter. It was a completion, indisputably.

 

That play was due to one thing only - the Giants wanted it more than the Patriots. If not, Eli would have been sacked, and Tyree wouldn't have come down with the ball.

 

If effort = fluke, then yes, it was an absolute fluke.

it can be a fluke and an indiputable completion. correct?

Two circus catches in a single game isn't flukish? One catch by leaping as high as he could, arching backwards, and catching the ball one-handed while the arm is fully extended and a defender has him completely covered?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9OT4VeXiCA

 

Keep in mind Lloyd had a second catch, equally as amazing in that game.

 

The bottom line was the ball never touched the ground. It was in control. With both Tyree's hands on it.

 

I don't really care if Harrison would break 2x4's to get himself a toothpick on other days. For that play, he was not the more physical player--if he were, it would have fallen incomplete. You're bouncing between a career and a moment in time.

 

It may be tired, but this is about as close to a football discussion as I'm likely to have this year.

help me out here. how does Lloyd having 2 fluke catches in a game, prove tyree's catch was no fluke?

it does not.

i'm not buying for one second that that catch is more miraculous than tyree's, nor that you believe it to be.

i've seen one handed grabs in high school, college, and pro games. i've yet to see another like tyree's.

so far it's been compared to smith's 3rd down catch, boss' 30 yarder, antonio brown's helmet grab, and now Lloyd's one hander. come on. reaching

the fact harrison is more physical, had good position, and was pulling tyree's arms lends to the legend of the play.

there's really nothing tired about it is there. if there were no element of truth in my words, there wouldn't be 10+ pages of debate on the subject. i could come in here and state the sun is red, and there would likely be little to no response.

but the truth is the little itch you have to scratch

Because you aren't a thin skin poster prone to letting emotionality affect your responses.

emotion and attitude are not the same thing

it's a shame i have to be part of such a lame discussion.

you have no football left in you? you jealous you didn't get a 'good post' from me?

hahah

How does that comment counter my statement?. The Giants lost that superbowl not down to Trent Dilfer or do you watch these games at all? And we're discussing teams who win superbowls, not lose them.

 

Cheap way to avoid my question.

Trent Dilfer scored. Your offense did not. At least give the man his due.

We're discussing teams that win superbowls, in my 'cowboys in 2012' thread. i like that.

You're saying it was a gimme win cause we face o'donnell, and i say facing a mediocre (or subpar as in dilfer's case) qb isn't a guranteed victory.

Before O'donnell threw those picks in the superbowl, he was leading the league in int%.

was there a real question in there or just a request to discuss?

Check out amuka's performance vs ncaa's best wr in 2010, justin blackmon (youtube amukamara vs blackmon)

Other than blackmon he didnt face another nfl ready wr

I would emphatically say yes. Fewell showed more in Buffalo then Rob has shown while bouncing around from team to team. Fewell was a coach also which showed much more promise.

Im talking about nyg perry not buffalo perry. In buff he had more players who fit his scheme

How has that worked out in nyc? What team did you beat last year that inspired this confidence in perry?

Whats the win/loss on teams you beat last year?

You beat the weak

The point of the draft is to get younger, talented players at positions that are aging and slipping on talent. Offensive line in the case of the Giants. Cmon, you're better than that.

 

Plus, I know you're new, but the guys around here know that I have a real problem with the inconsistency of Jacobs and Bradshaw and think neither one should be the "starter". Unfortunately, it's all we have.

and the purpose of fa?

Dude, there 1. probably isn't going to be a season and 2. if there is, free agency hasn't come yet. We will probably find someone there. Plus, we have Goff who did fine last year, anyway. And at least we have a legitimate secondary.

 

This is like ripping on you because you guys still haven't found bodies to replace your awful offensive line. Can't replace them if you can't even sign players. Dumbass.

haha im just playin though Cowboyz seriously though you cant be knocking Osi and Co.

Osi smells

Thanks T.

For the record, its bigblue's flamewar not mine.

Im just owning the fuckin thing.

I could base one of the Cowboys superbowl wins on the fact that the Steelers once had a qb named Neil O'Donnell. care to discuss?

i could base one of the gints superbowl wins on the fact that the Ravens once had a qb named Trent Dil ...

oh nevermind.

Discuss?

It would have been called a circus catch for sure. But I have seen much more spectacular catches. Hell, I saw Brandon Lloyd make TWO circus catches against my team in one game when he was in San Fran. Certainly not with as much importance, but absolutely with as much of that surreal element.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d8067d05e/SB-XLII-Can-t-Miss-Play-Eli-miracle

 

Look at it again. You can see it exactly as I described it. Furthermore, Harrison was not more physical than Tyree on that play. Maybe 9 out of 10 times, but not that play. And that ball was under control when Tyree landed. He had both hands on it, and it never came within an inch of the turf. Even after that, when Harrison was desperately digging at the ball, Tyree never let go; so there was no question that he had control and possession.

Circus, miracle, fluke. Only to gint fans does this distinction matter.

I doubt it. Everyone who has joined this debate has attempted to compare it with another, less miraculous play. I think it suits your purpose in the debate, but i dont doubt for a second that youve all called it the greatest play of all time to anyone who would listen.

If Lloyd has a better play, post it and poll them head to head.

Ive seen the play as much as anyone here.

You should scrap the video for still shots. Clearly the ball is within an inch of the turf.

I didnt make an observation about who was more physical on the play, but that harrison is/was a more physical player than Tyree period.

Height, weight, athleticism.

Now how does such a tired discussion get so much interest from those who are most tired of it?

But notice how your attitude changed when it wasn't just me saying that.

Notice how you called me 'dumbass' in your first response, while he did not. Why would i have the same attitude toward you both?

interesting stats

amukamara had 13 passes defended in 2010 and came away with zero picks.

his counterpart dennard had 11 passes defended and 4 picks.

prince was targeted over 50 times in 2010

And again, if either of those instances happened in separate plays, we wouldn't be using the term "miracle" at all.

 

People forget that by the time he landed, Tyree had BOTH hands on the ball, and had control enough where it never touched the ground. In fact, he initially had two hands on the ball, Harrison pulled one away, and Tyree got it back on the ball. Look at the video--there's a nice sized one on NFL.com. That's a sign of determination, not divine intervention.

i can't agree. that catch could've happened alone and in a preseason game and people would still call it a miracle (or circus in the least) catch.

harrison was pulling on the single arm that was holding the ball. he's much more physical than tyree.

nevermind the fact when tyree came down, he was bent backwards over harrison's body and the ball came within an inch of hitting the turf, and likely bouncing free. remember, miracle wasn't my choice of words, but it seems to be a popular

choice amongst nfl analysts.

about his lack of interceptions, after a cb has a great year teams stop throwing at him as often.

 

 

noone starts to doubt nnamdi asomugha after he only has 1 interception in a year.

 

 

but like any draft pick you never know for certain how he will turn out, but getting what most considered to be a top ten talent is awesome.

nnamdi, to be fair, is doing it in the pros

we'll see if the prince can do the same

an attention seeker would though.

true, and

1. when the dog had to point out to you that keith elias was a rb and not a te...

2. when the dog had to point out to you that the steelers were the first wild card team to win the SB having won every game on the road, not the giants

3. when the dog had to explain to you that head to head goes ahead of conference and division record in the playoff tiebreaker scenario

etc...etc...

 

all football related discussions the dog chose to engage you with...and yes, these discussions started to diminish in frequency when it was clear you had no clue...oh, and after you left the boards three times (coincidentally when things were looking bad for the giants, only to return when times were better)...the dog apologizes for the brief history recap - just trying to catch the newcomer up to speed...

I thought this was a nice objective piece by a gints blog. give us something to discuss anyway.

Prince or Pauper?

Written by Glenn Warciski | 29 April 2011

Did the Giants make a smart move by selecting defensive back Prince Amukamara?

Let us take a look at our experts thoughts on Prince Amukamara:

Wonder: Brutally hard evaluation. Everything you look for. He'll go top 10 in the draft, but too high for me. Body of Revis but does not transition well from the backpedal to the sprint.

Pete: I have problems here. Physical talent. That he did not have any interceptions his senior year really bothers me. Good player cannot recommend him higher.

Looking at Wonder's and Pete's draft boards, Prince Amukamara's name is highlighted in red. In both of their vetting of draft prospects, Prince was a bottom five value versus consensus player. In other words, both of our experts believe he is a player they disliked versus consensus. And both graded him as a THREE. A three grade equates to a solid starter. Generally speaking, when both of our experts agree on a player, the confidence in their evaluation is increased.

Interestingly, Bill Parcells shares Pete's skepticism about Amukamara. In his Draft Confidential program which aired on ESPN, Parcells mentioned Prince's short arms as a concern. Because he has a short arm span, this was a major reason he did not have any interceptions his senior year. This was corroborated by the Sun Sentinel's analysis of Amukamara. According to the Sun-Sentinel, he has short arms and small hands, which might explain why he didn't record an interception as a senior. Another interesting tidbit from their analysis: Also gets caught with eyes in the backfield too often.

Therefore, the selection of Amukamara fits defensive coordinator Perry Fewell's Tampa 2 scheme. The Giants obtained a player who can play off coverage. But remember Fewell's scheme does not work against the top notch quarterbacks. Amukamara may get away with watching a mediocre quarterback's eyes. However, the better quarterbacks (Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, and Tom Brady) will not give away any freebies.

In summary, the Giants added a player who can help improve their pass defense. But at what cost? Prior to the draft, we at UltimateNYG targeted pass defense, special teams, offensive line, and linebacker as areas of need. Despite having many positions to bolster, a beaming Tom Coughlin called Prince, “clearly the highest-rated player on the board.” Giants GM Jerry Reese added,“It happens like that sometimes in the draft — guys can fall right into your lap, and we think that’s what happened.” Let us hope they are correct.

Note- Thanks to GMC for their sponsorship of this blog at the Draft last night. Andy here, my quick takeaway is that those who think we stole the Brink's truck are simply mistaken. Many who worked him out privately passed on him. The Giants did not work him out and took him. That Kiper and Mayock loved the guy and had him in their Top 10 is not the be-all-end-all. Our two draft analysts panned him (well before the draft), so this is as objective as you can possibly get. We had a ranking for him at 28 and 35. Shouldn't that tell you something? He'll be a good player, but don't go thinking this is a home run. For those of you thinking he was a home run, you'll get graded as draft analysts with a "1" elite rating for the player. Our draft analysts are already on record as having him as a '3' solid starter. If he makes it to the pro bowl ('2') it will be a push (without meeting a critical need, i.e. Castonzo at Tackle). If he makes it as a consistent impact player, then he is a "home run." And if he is a solid starter like we project him to be, then this is a very normal and ordinary pick for Round 1, which averages a 3.5. Of course we leave room for our analysts to be wrong. But UltimateNYG's analysts are here for a reason, to separate the facts from the noise. Mel Kiper is, quite frankly, a lot of the latter.

Not trying to do anything except tell you to go fuck yourself. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

And I would think twice before saying IM the one looking for approval. Im not on one of your cowshit websites trying to get accepted.

you've made it clear you have nothing to add but prepubescent tantrums and insult slinging.

an approval seeker would never go to a rivals website. that's counter intuitive.

So, we must be alike then.....lol

not at all. i wouldn't hate anyone here. pity maybe.

i have a high opinion of most on this board so far.