JayD

we would've made the playoffs back-to-back if fassel was running the team when the NFC was this pathetic. we went 8-8 after a playoff season under fassel but it wasn't enough to make the playoffs.

 

you need to open your eyes and actually watch some games if you honestly think coughlin has done a good job here. when he gets us out of the first round (let alone to the superbowl) then you can start talking about him in the same sentence as jim fassel. i think someone who shits on a coach who brought his favorite team to the superbowl is the impatient one

I never miss a game, nor have I ever "shit" on fassel. I liked him. But the truth is Coughlin is a better coach than him. Hence the reason Coughlin has a job and Fassel doesnt. BTW The NFC wasnt near as pathectic last year, as it was the year we went to the superbowl. In fact I dont know why people say the NFC was weak last year. It wasnt at all. There were just alot of good teams, and it balanced out.

BTW when Fassel brings a expantion team to the Championship game, then he can be mentioned in the same sentence as Coughlin.

i dont think it's right that coughlin was given the benefit of the doubt due to injuries, yet fassel wasn't despite a way better resume with the team

Thats just cause you are like most NY fans, impatient, and well just down right unrealistic. The man has only been here 3 years, with 2 playoff appearences, and a division championship. All this starting with a 4-12 team, a rookie QB, and has had over half his team injured every year he's been here so far. Fassel has NEVER had back to back playoff appearences, and has handed us the 2 most humiliating post season losses in Giants history. Yea some resume. We could do ALOT worse than Coughlin

I so hope you are right.

 

I will grant you the very early read I have on Spagnulo (sp?) is pretty positive. It would be nice to get the D off the field on 3rd and long instead of giving up first downs on crossing routes while we play soft cover 2. Maybe he can get it done.

He better get it done lol. We need to restore pride in our defense, like the old days.

I hope BJ has a killer year too, but as of right now Westbrook is the best RB in the NFC East. 1900 ap yards, 11 TDs in 2006.

To me its really a no brainer. This kid is faster than Barber, and more powerfull than the Bus. Has good hands, and from what we have seen so far has pretty good vision as well. Its going to be hard to hold this kid down.

Anyone less than BB just wont do. If we cant get him, I'd rather stay with Coughlin.

got to let us talk shite now. With 2100+ all purpose yards gone, no left tackle and major question marks in the secondary we will only be able to do so for so long.

 

About the only thing we have going for us right now is that the entire division is pretty week. Philly has a qb who can't stay on the field, no backup and and no wrs. Dallas has an unproven QB, a week secondary, question marks of their own at OT, an average running game and an unproven coaching staff and the Redskins, well the Redskins are just plain awful. We could easily suck and still go 5-1 in this division.

2100 all purpose yards will now be replaced by the beast from the east, with a consistant 5 yards a carry, proving MORE effective than Barbers style. Dramaticaly helping our so far semi-under acheiving QB. Deihl will do just fine at LT. And now that we have a DC with half a brain, our secondary will be MUCH improved. Remember who told ya.

Peace out brother. It was good chatting with you.

Personaly, I refuse to even speak with "the dog" when it come to Giants football.

Egg is just amusing. Not to be taken seriously.

Im true blue no matter what the case. I never miss a game, regardless of the record.Thats all I got to say about that.

When has Shockey ever patronized somebody’s culture, race, religion, sexual orientation, fashion sense or pet? He also only dropped a few balls last season. Less than 7 (T.O. dropped 17).

Well he did call Parcells a homo. Aside from that I have no idea what they are talking about.

Man I havent seen this much hate for a player since ryan leaf ruffed up that reporter. You'd think Eli pissed on someones microphone.

Then who was the quote directed at? Huffnagel? I didn't say he called him a giant doosh (<----intentional).

LOL, I know you didnt VG. I think he was just asked a question and instead of going into a long shpell about Tiki, he just redirected it to what is important now.

He didnt take a shot at Tivi at all. What did you think he would say, we are dead without tiki? He's pumped for the season, and so am I.

the Dog for one loves to impart football knowledge to those less fortunate...here is the logic - if your team on offense is able to put together several big plays or several good drives in a game, but a majority of the time sputters, and puts the defense on the field for extended times, or on a short field, then the 20 point average may not hold up...as for stating the favorite team, the Dog knows from reviewing other posters here how quick that deteriorates a logical discussion into team bashing, and since we are looking at Giants football, then that is the focus...others here have understood this, so the Dog guesses you will just have to accept it...

 

To that end, the Dog cautions - when BigBlue is your biggest supporter, step away from the debate...

WHO DO YOU ROOT FOR???????????????

You know, you are so right. Its just that I like to point out things he says that dont make sense, like he does to others.

You mean like how after scoring over 20 points, it the offenses fault that the defense couldnt hang on to win????

Yep...it would be cool IF the Dog would just come out with it a say "Hey, I am a long time Cowboy fan!"

Im thinking Cowboys as well. Its gotta be in our division at least. This way he can do all the dishing, and none of the taking. forget that noise.

If a high # of possesions result in a 3 and out or a turnover, the blue is quite certain thats not one of the 20+ point games we are referring to.

I dont know about you bro, but I refuse to defend my team to a man who doesnt even have the balls to state which team he roots for. Especialy cause he knows if he did, it would shed much light on his negitivity twards the Giants.I have no time, or respect for such a person. At least when it comes to talking football.

Manning has played in 39 regular season games. Of those 39, 28 times the offense scored 20 points or higher. You would think a significant majority of those games would be wins, right? Not so. Of those 28 games, 12 of them were losses. That includes 6 losses where the offense scored more than 21 points, which should be plenty, because it gives your defense space to give up 3 touchdowns.

 

If your offense is scoring at least 20 points 72% of the time, your record should be better than 20-19. Or you fire your defensive coordinator--oh, wait...

 

Now you could argue that that Tiki was responsible for a number of those high scoring games. And that's fair. On the other hand, you can't simultaneously look at the record, knowing how many games were flat-out BLOWN by the defense, and say that Manning is average because he's 20-19.

 

But let's compare anyway to Elway's situation. '83, '84, '85--ruled out the first four games of '83, didn't rule out whatever games Kubiak started. 43 games. Of those, 24 of them had Denver score 20 points or more. Guess how many of those Denver lost: 10? 8? Maybe 7? All wrong. They lost FOUR games!

 

As I look into this further and further as this thread goes, I'm actually becoming more convinced that Manning could wind up being worth the price we paid for him, and even with a modest boost from the defense, it might become much more apparent this coming season. He's definitely not there yet, but there is definitely hope.

Exellent post man. Your seeing the light now.

for purposes of this debate, one should count the first year, as the same was being counted for Elway...now, that puts Manning at 20-19, which is essentially 500...not bad, not great...which, is what the Dog would stand by...very average. That is not a bad thing at this stage, but the is average what you want when you give up as much as you give up for a player? You will hate to say it, but the Dog thinks that posters who bring this up have arguments that have merit...

When we have one of the worst Defenses in the league, its better than it looks.

This from NFL.com:

God damn, people are dumb. It wasn't too long ago that the Emmit Smiths, Barry Sanders' and Tiki Barbers of the world were "too small" to be an "every down" back. Now Jacobs is "too big" to be an every-downer... just like Larry Johnson and some guy named Jerome Bettis had horrible careers as big backs. For fuck's sake... SMALL backs get worn down... BIG backs wear a DEFENSE down... especially today's defenses that are SMALL and built for speed.

 

I can remember a guy who played for the Giants and wore #27 going to more than a few Pro Bowls... and playing alongside Emmit Smith and Barry Sanders for years at a time. His YPC average went UP in every quarter as guys got tired of tackling him... and he could run over or around you. Jacobs reminds me a lot of that guy.

 

Nobody seems to notice that this kid can play. Pro Bowl for Jacobs this year... write it down. And the finger to all the stat monkeys and armchair quarterbacks who don't know their ass from their elbow.

What I find funny about it, Jacobs is FASTER than Tiki, and more POWERFUL than the bus. This kid could be looking at top 5 easy. Haters wanna hate I guess

I looked up denver's record. We were both wrong, but you were closer. 12-2. I need to increase the ginko, and toss the aluminum pots.

 

His personal stats for that year aren't exactly awe-inspiring, though. And other than in yardage, his next year was worse.

 

That help, sweetcheeks?

Damn, looks like Eli is on pace to detstroy Elways stats.

I dont know how old you are, but Simms had 25 one year in the 80's. But I agree, its still pretty damn good.

Sorry bro, never happend

[edit] Passing statistics

Year Team GP Att Com Pct Yds TD Int Rate

1979 New York Giants 12 265 134 50.6 1743 13 14 66.0

1980 New York Giants 13 402 193 48.0 2321 15 19 58.9

1981 New York Giants 10 316 172 54.4 2031 11 9 74.0

1983 New York Giants 2 13 7 53.8 130 0 1 56.6

1984 New York Giants 16 533 286 53.7 4044 22 18 78.1

1985 New York Giants 16 495 275 55.6 3829 22 20 78.6

1986 New York Giants 16 468 259 55.3 3487 21 22 74.6

1987 New York Giants 9 282 163 57.8 2230 17 9 90.0

1988 New York Giants 15 479 253 54.9 3359 21 11 82.1

1989 New York Giants 15 405 228 56.3 3061 14 14 77.6

1990 New York Giants 14 311 184 59.2 2284 15 4 92.7

1991 New York Giants 6 141 82 58.3 993 8 4 87.0

1992 New York Giants 4 137 83 60.6 812 5 3 83.3

1993 New York Giants 16 400 247 61.8 3038 15 9 88.3

Career Totals 164 4647 2576 55.4 33462 199 157 78.5

He didnt even get 22, his best season till he was 5 years in the league.

I was born in 76

No way, I agree with these guys, he's gettin better, and 3000+ yds and 24 TD's aint bad considering. Gorilla said it best, his performance was directly attributed to the health of his team.

Ill take it a step further and say its pretty damn Good. We havent had a QB throw 24 TD's in my life time.

Man... pass the rose-colored glasses.

 

Hate to break it to you all, but Eli is going to look like SHIT this year.

 

His starting left tackle has been replaced with a guy who couldn't cut it as a right tackle. His primary check-down option and blitz pick-up guy is gone. Plax and Shock are still not gonna work out with him, and his favorite receiver is coming off an injury that has ended plenty of careers.

 

He gets a free pass this year. If he can't step it up next year, we need to find a new QB. If he looks BETTER this year it'll be a goddamned miracle.

Jacobs will be better for Eli than Tiki was. Why do people think he cant pick up a blitz? Thats rediculas, the kid is a monster. He has good hands too. There will be a lot less 3rd and longs with Jacobs bounding the ball.

Diehl never had a chance to work on being a tackle, he was just thrown in there both times do to injury. Now that he will have the whole off season to work on it, he will do just fine, with way less penalties than Luke had. But hate if you gotta hate, just remember who told ya.

Fair enough, but the Dog would still stand by the notion that a franchise QB is not needed...if you look at Super Bowls over the years, even most teams with "franchise" QBs won mostly because of some combination of coaching, the system, a running game and/or defense...teams that had the big name QB as the primary piece of the puzzle often found themselves on the losing side...

 

The Dog does recall that several analysts rated Rivers higher then the other two QBs at the time of the draft (even though most liked Manning overall)...he was viewed as having a high upside at the time...and true, the Dog agrees that Merriman was not a lock, but the fact is that not having additional picks when you are team that has several holes to fill hurts in the long run...or at least prolongs the ability to start filling those holes...

 

And we are agreeing on your point about not winning a Super Bowl having to do with a weak defense rather then Manning playing poorly...that is why the Dog still contends that it is wise to draft a team rather then draft a player and make him the team...

We didnt have alot of holes on Defense, we just had alot of injuries, and a really bad DC. We have eliminated at least one of those problems this off season. We are going to kick some major ass this season, and after words no one will be talking about that draft day anymore.