mastershake

I hear you...I'm just preparing everyone to get used to these phrases: "2nd and long for the Giants." "3rd and long for the Giants." "Another three and out for this offense." "And again, a Giants RB dropped behind the line of scrimmage." "Well Daniel Jones once again has an unblocked defender right in his face." "There you go right there, Will Hernandez spins around in a circle and completely doesn't touch the defender again."

Also, Shake screams about this offseason move but by week 10 when Williams has 12 sacks and the team is 6-4, and Shake is admitting he's a fool, lol.

We all know where this is going already... They're going to have no $$$ cap leftover in free agency for any other big moves. DG won't use the top 2 draft picks on OL. In sum, DG will do nothing on the OL this offseason, short of restructuring or cutting Zeitler and/or Solder. 6-10 team. Maybe 7-9 at best.

I'd rather have an offensive line. C/G Corey Linsley 3 years $30mm, with Kevin Beachum on a 1 year $2.5mm deal as a backup plan in case Peart doesn't work out at RT, plus draft in the mid rounds for depth at G. (probably doubtful at this point that Zeitler and Solder both remain on this roster) Then, still enough money to bring in Curtis Samuel 3 years $24mm. Oh well.

We have at best a 6-10 team if our OL starters are Thomas, Lemuiex, Gates, Hernandez, Peart. Lemuiex, Hernandez, Peart have flashed but they're highly inconsistent at this point. Lemuiex and Peart are developmental works in progress... Hernandez is simply mediocre and I have no hope for him. You can get away with one of those types of guys on starting on your line if the others on your OL are sound, but not three. And let's be honest, Gates is only okay, and Thomas is decent but not spectacular at this point. Collectively, that group of 5 is a D to C minus grade offensive line. Now imagine Andrew Thomas or Gates gets injured...it goes to being an F real quick. Problem is we are so desperate for a decent OL, that when we see a couple good plays from these guys (Peart, Lemuiex), we cream ourselves, completely ignoring the other half dozen botched plays. Remember a couple years ago when Jamon Brown had a coupon good games and we were gushing? Where is he now? Also, Gates was much better at RT than he is at C so I have no ideas why the fuck they moved him.

Gettleman owes his job to Blake Martinez, James Bradberry, and Patrick Graham.

Even so, most teams in the league are in a better position than we are...but regardless of their position. The giants just don't have the $$$ cap space to make big moves in free agency. I'm not expecting much in free agency from DG. DG needs to hit a home run in the draft.

Another thing to keep in mind on cap space. Before cuts and before factoring in draft pick contracts against the cap, we only have ~$5mm under the cap. Draft picks alone are going to cost somewhere between ~$9-10mm most likely. The #11 pick last year for instance drew a year 1 cap hit of ~$3.3mm, and the 2nd rounder was ~$1.2mm. Add up the other 5 picks, and you can quickly approach a $9-10mm on draft picks alone. So realistically, we're really currently at like -$5mm. Depending on the mix of players we potentially cut, we free up $27-$38mm. The net result of that with the draft picks above is $22-$33mm in free cap space. Then, DG seems to like to keep some cap available going into the season, and we're really only looking at maybe $15mm - $25mm in spending this offseason, which really limits our options. That's probably one fairly big contract in the range of a $8mm-$10mm cap hit (e.g. Dalvin Tomlinson, Corey Linsley, Matt Judon, Hassan Reddick), and then maybe one mid tier contract with a $5mm-8mm cap hit (e.g. Curtis Samuel, Rudolph, Ertz)....then you're down to signing several backups for depth (e.g. Austin Johnson). In other words, I think we need to revise our expectations on DG in free agency. I expect one fairly big signing, one mid tier contract, and several additional depth signings....and that's about it.

Good point. Not only can't we afford the contract he wants and will likely get elsewhere, I'm also weary about re-signing a guy who suddenly "figures it out" in his contract year. Let him walk.

I just would not retain Solder and I would not re-sign Tomlinson (I think his contract looks more like 4 years $50mm). I'd revise this with the following: - OT Kevin Beachum 2 years $7mm. Backup plan at RT, and an improvement over Fleming and Solder. - OL Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm. Change the 3rd round pick to DE/EDGE Patrick Jones II, Pittsburgh. I'd feel much better about this OL. LT Thomas LG Slater C Linsley RG Gates RT Beachum or Peart I wouldn't feel great about the pass rush on this team but I'd feel comfortable with everything else.

Here's some stats for you: Hassan Reddick 16 games this year: 3 games vs NFC East teams: 8.0 sacks (including 5 vs the giants). 13 games vs everyone else: 4.5 sacks. Additionally, Hassan Reddick is the only defender with 10 or more total sacks to go 5 straight games with zero sacks.

Ehh...Reddick to me seems like a guy who feasts on weak OLs (e.g. the Giants), but when tasked with average or decent OLs, he disappears.

If we sign Linsley and use a 2nd or 3rd rounder on an OL, I'd feel a lot better. Kevin Beachum on a 1 yr $3mm deal would be a plus as well. I expect DG to make zero of these three moves or similar three moves. I actually expect no investment in the OL from DG, other than maybe late picks or backups for depth.

In a perfect world, we'd have enough money to re-sign Williams, the MVP as Nem pointed out, plus Tomlinson, plus two starting OL (e.g. Linsley, Ryan). But we don't. Williams at $20mm per year plus is clearly out of our range. If we re-sign Tomlinson, that eats up ~$9-11mm in cap space and means we likely don't address the OL, and my fear is we're just back where we were last year with a solid defense but offense that's bottom tier because the OL (still) can't block. I'm honestly so tired of talking about this offensive line. I mean, we aren't even fucking close...and we've been talking about it for going on like 7 years now, literally. We have Thomas who looks promising, Gates who is DECENT (but not spectacular like people are boasting about), and then the other three starting OL spots are currently tremendous unknowns (Zeitler I'm assuming will be cut). As BC has pointed out on another thread, DG sort of publicly indicates which way he's going to go/not going to go, and all indications are that he thinks the OL is fine as is and instead thinks we need skill players (which we do also need, but the offense doesn't work without an OL). DG is totally not going to fix the OL again. He honestly thinks Lemeuix, Hernandex, and Peart and/or Solder should be day 1 starters in 2021.

NJ.com estimated Tomlinson signing a 3 year $40mm, which seemed a bit generous in my view. I bet he gets 3 years $36mm or 4 years $48mm

Rather than re-sign Tomlinson at a $12-14mm per year contract for a guy who only plays 67% of the downs, I'd honestly rather invest in the OL and rely on Lawrence and BJ Hill as our starting DTs, re-sign a guy like Austin Johnson for depth plus add a mid-late round draft pick for the 4th DT position depth. In other words, instead spend the cap space on G Joe Thuney 4 years $60mm, and bring in a guy like Kevin Beachum on a 1yr $4mm deal to be a swing tackle/backup plan at RT in case Peart doesn't work out this year. Draft another interior OL in rounds 1-3.

https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2021/02/25/new-york-giants-leonard-williams-arent-close-on-new-deal/?fbclid=IwAR2e5W_EWGU6r4LhVAi0mogl-7dXj5Ui738T0YhzNVUfdnGhvM6NwwJH7BA Duggan adds that despite earlier speculation, Williams will not offer the Giants a hometown discount and would instead prefer to be paid in the range of $20 million to $21 million per season — on par with the likes of DeForest Buckner and Chris Jones.

Fair points. I think anything less than 9-7 and the playoffs is grounds to fire DG. Watch, we'll go 7-9 and the Mara's will claim we're heading in the right direction, and will keep DG.

The above factors in the dead cap. For instance, Solder's cap number is $16.5mm with a $10.5mm dead cap, so a cap savings of $6mm. You think that the guys filling in for Tate, Toililoioi won't cost the same if not more? I'm not too concerned with losing Tate and Toilolo. It's not going to cost us ~$14mm to replace these. If we get Samuel and/or a high draft pick at WR, I'd be satisfied. Blocking TE's are a dime a dozen, so not too concerned there as well. Giants are in cap hell and are going to be until next offseason. Yes, agreed. I'm very pessimistic. The OL is definitely going to have gaps, and by the looks of it our DL might as well (I bet we lose Williams AND Tomlinson). This is all why DG should be fired. He's led us to this point.

Zeitler +$12mm Solder +$6mm (not sure what happens capwise if he retires though) Tate +$6mm Engram +$6mm Toilolo +$3mm Pulley +$2.75mm Core +$2mm That's nearly $39mm in cap savings right there. Spotrac says we're currently only $5mm under the cap and I believe that's BEFORE factoring in draft picks, so we're actually probably at closer to -$6mm. So the above cuts put us at ~$33mm. Not bad, but probably only leaves us to sign Leonard Williams and one other prominent FA (such as Curtis Samuel or Linsley)...but I bet DG makes only one big FA move not two. We're going to need to hit a home run in the draft. God help us. 6-10 this season. The offensive line is already botched...I can already tell DG thinks we should have Lemeuix, Hernandez, and Peart on the line as starters day 1. Ugh. He's not going to invest significant cap or draft assets (e.g. first two rounds) into the OL. At best, we'll be lucky if we get a career backup like Fleming or possibly Beachum, and maybe a 3rd round or later pick. I say again, if we don't come out of free agency and the draft with adding two starting OL, this season is a lost season.

It depends...I'm assuming Zeitler is a cap casualty...so if the Giants bring in two solid starters (i.e. on the interior line) through free agency and/or the draft, I'd be okay with Solder for another year. But if we're going into the year with Thomas, Lemeuix, Gates, Hernandez and Solder as our starters than we're fucked.

His dead cap number is around $10.5mm, so the cap savings are only $6mm His cap savings would have been far larger at $14mm....but Gettlemen didn't cut him last year, so now it's less. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/nate-solder-7732/

Thuney isn't that young. He's 28 now, will be 29 in November. I'd be willing to bump that contract up to 4 years $60mm, possibly if we make additional cuts (e.g. Pettis, RJ McIntosh), guys that are likely going to be cut or will barely make the roster anyway. - G Joe Thuney 4 years $60mm - C / G Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm - T Kelvin Beachum (swing tackle, backup in case Matt Peart doesn't work out at RT). 1 year $3.5mm - WR Curtis Samuel 3 years $25mm - DL Leonard Williams 5 years $80mm You could prob end up with something like this against the 2021 cap. Year 1 Cap Hit ($44.5): - Thuney = $12mm - Linsley $8mm - Beachum $3.5mm - Samuel $6mm - Williams $13mm $42.5mm Problem is I think the draft pool hasn't been factored into the current cap numbers, so you're probably right we can afford one, but not two big OL, with someone like Linsley looking more likely than Thuney (if we want to keep Williams). If we brought in just Linsely plus Beachum as insurance / backup plan at RT, I'd be happy with that free agency. This is also my wish list and "if I were playing Madden 2022," so it's all just fantasy, lol.

Cut: Solder, Zeitler (assuming he won't restructure), Engram, Pulley, Toilolo, Core, Golden Tate. + ~$38mm in cap space, on top of ~$8mm currently. - G Joe Thuney 4 years $50mm - C / G Corey Linsley 3 years $33mm - T Kelvin Beachum (swing tackle, backup in case Matt Peart doesn't work out at RT). 1 year $3.5mm - WR Curtis Samuel 3 years $25mm - DL Leonard Williams 5 years $80mm - Re-sign DT Austin Johnson and DE Jabaal Sheard to 1 year $1mm, as backups, rotational defenders. Draft 1st: TE Kyle Pitts, Florida 2nd: CB Paulson Adebo, Stanford 3rd: DE Rashad Weaver, Pittsburgh 4th: RB Trey Sermon, Ohio State