The Role of Linebacker - Not Your Father's Oldsmobile

[JMFP]

Frankly, this defense needs some people with character flaws. I'd rather have a badass like Ogletree than some powder puff like Manti Teo and his internet girlfriend.

[Bigblue25]

 

 

You're exactly right and if not for huge character flaws, he would have been a good pick. I guarantee the Giants' staff took a long hard look at Ogletree and his past legal problems and saw a kid who would be a problem later on and doubtful that he'd come around - and they would have had to burn a 1st on him. He reminds me so much of Pacman Jones - incredible talent, dumb as a box of rocks, despises authority, and ignores laws.

 

But we had no problem, going with low character guys in the next two rounds

[BleedinBlue]

 

 

But we had no problem, going with low character guys in the next two rounds

 

Huh....I wasn't aware that Hankins and Moore had failed drug tests, been arrested for robbery, and had been suspended from the team twice (including their senior years) for reasons not made public, routinely gave coaches a hard time, and then to top it off, gotten themselves arrested for DUI just a few weeks before the draft was to take place.

 

Had I known that both Hankins and Moore had done all that, I wouldn't have wanted them either.

[BlueInCanada]

Frankly, this defense needs some people with character flaws. I'd rather have a badass like Ogletree than some powder puff like Manti Teo and his internet girlfriend.

 

Yeah but then they spit in the face of a ref or beat the shit out of a hooker and end up getting suspended for the year.

 

Can't help the team when you're on the Commish's shit list.

[JMFP]

Yeah but then they spit in the face of a ref or beat the shit out of a hooker and end up getting suspended for the year.

 

Can't help the team when you're on the Commish's shit list.

 

That's true....there's a diffence between being a bad ass and a bad teammate.

[Bigblue25]

 

 

Huh....I wasn't aware that Hankins and Moore had failed drug tests, been arrested for robbery, and had been suspended from the team twice (including their senior years) for reasons not made public, routinely gave coaches a hard time, and then to top it off, gotten themselves arrested for DUI just a few weeks before the draft was to take place.

 

Had I known that both Hankins and Moore had done all that, I wouldn't have wanted them either.

 

Moore was arrested for marijuana possession and I don't remember anything said about Ogletree giving coaches a hard time, in fact UGA coaches said "he was a quiet leader, and very smart football player"

[BleedinBlue]

 

 

Moore was arrested for marijuana possession and I don't remember anything said about Ogletree giving coaches a hard time, in fact UGA coaches said "he was a quiet leader, and very smart football player"

 

Supposedly, his suspensions from the team had to do with his attitude towards coaches and his not being predisposed to authority. I don't know where the "very smart" comes from. Getting arrested for DUI after the football season and prior to the NFL draft (probably the biggest day in the kid's life) doesn't seem to me to make someone particularly smart. He was the top LB in the draft and would have easily been a top 5 pick and taken ahead of Jarvis Jones if so many teams weren't willing to touch him. It is tempting though...I'm sure...to take a really good player even though every warning sign in the world is there. I suspect Giants would've taken a chance if he was still on the board in the 2nd, but he wasn't. I can't help but think of Pacman Jones when I think of Ogletree....and believe me, I was screaming at the TV on draft day for the Giants to take Pacman Jones and was furious they passed him by. In hindsight, we dodged a bullet.

[BlueInCanada]

That's true....there's a diffence between being a bad ass and a bad teammate.

 

Yeah it separates guys like Reggie White, Jack Lambert from guys like Pacman Jones, Matt Jones, Lawrence Phillips.

 

I will admit Ogletree was probably the best LB in this draft and he would be an immediate stater day one on the outside for us but all I've heard is his character and behavior issues about the kid.

 

Not to mention he cant take on a blocker to save his life.

[Allstarjim]

Truth is, none of us know that there isn't an Urlacher or Willis or Ray Lewis in this class yet. Nobody knows yet. Maybe a guy like Jon Bostic becomes the next great LBer. But its not like we need to draft a legend at the position, we need a guy with a specific skill set, a guy that can get the job done, who can be an understudy to Connor and be an upgrade to the guys behind him. I believe that maybe the thinking is that Herzlich is the guy I'm talking about, but I'm not confident that is the case, and that's too many eggs in one basket anyway.

 

There have been good Lbers in the draft. The Bucs absolutely love Lavonte David down here, who was tremendous in his rookie season. Same for Bobby Wagner in Seattle, also a rookie in 2012. Both of those players were 2nd rounders. Nigel Bradham and Miles Burris were 4th2nd rounders last year and gave some good early returns. 2011, Brooks Reed, Bruce Carter, Akeem Ayers (even though I still don't like him), all 2ndhave rounders. Kelvin Sheppard is a pretty good LBer for the Colts taken in the third, where Justin Houston was taken for the Chiefs. Mason Foster was also taken in the 3rd that year for the Bucs and has played very well. Akeem Dent, 3rd rounder for the Falcons. K.J. Wright, 4th rounder for the Seahawks in 2011, 98 tackles last year. Daryl Washington, a guy everyone likes right about now, a 2nd rounder taken one spot behind Linval Joseph in the 2nddraft round 2010. Sean Lee for the Cowboys, taken 55th that year. Brandon Spikes and Pat Angerer, taken late in the 2nd that year. Here's a good one... Navarro Bowman taken 91st overall in the 3rd rd by the 49ers. Perry Riley had a big year for the Skins last year, 4th round pick. So when u guys say there are no good linebackers in this class that are difference makers, you'd probably be saying that about Daryl Washington and Navarro Bowman 3 years ago, too. In all likelihood, there are at least 3 or 4 very good LBers in this draft, but this team needs to take the position seriously. I think Kevin Minter could have solved MLB for us for a very long time, taken in the 2nd rd. But maybe the best linebacker in this class will be Sio Moore, a third round pick. I guess other teams will find out while Herzlich and Williams are chasing Al Morris and DeMarco Murray 35 yards downfield again.

[Bigblue25]

I did get the sense, from his interviews that he wasn't the least bit contrite with his off field, he seeemed to dodge it. The Giants probably got the same sense. Honestly, his play was overrated, I have never been so torn on a prospect, he had the athleticism and the speed, size. Alot of his tackles, where 20 yards downfiled, or on the TE he was covering, he was also a gigantic pussy, he didn't clean up plays, avoided blocks and didn't consistently wrap up. J. Will is probably the better option on the WLB and has far true Mike LB's which is what we need, I didn't like one.

[Bigblue25]

Truth is, none of us know that there isn't an Urlacher or Willis or Ray Lewis in this class yet. Nobody knows yet. Maybe a guy like Jon Bostic becomes the next great LBer. But its not like we need to draft a legend at the position, we need a guy with a specific skill set, a guy that can get the job done, who can be an understudy to Connor and be an upgrade to the guys behind him. I believe that maybe the thinking is that Herzlich is the guy I'm talking about, but I'm not confident that is the case, and that's too many eggs in one basket anyway.

 

There have been good Lbers in the draft. The Bucs absolutely love Lavonte David down here, who was tremendous in his rookie season. Same for Bobby Wagner in Seattle, also a rookie in 2012. Both of those players were 2nd rounders. Nigel Bradham and Miles Burris were 4th2nd rounders last year and gave some good early returns. 2011, Brooks Reed, Bruce Carter, Akeem Ayers (even though I still don't like him), all 2ndhave rounders. Kelvin Sheppard is a pretty good LBer for the Colts taken in the third, where Justin Houston was taken for the Chiefs. Mason Foster was also taken in the 3rd that year for the Bucs and has played very well. Akeem Dent, 3rd rounder for the Falcons. K.J. Wright, 4th rounder for the Seahawks in 2011, 98 tackles last year. Daryl Washington, a guy everyone likes right about now, a 2nd rounder taken one spot behind Linval Joseph in the 2nddraft round 2010. Sean Lee for the Cowboys, taken 55th that year. Brandon Spikes and Pat Angerer, taken late in the 2nd that year. Here's a good one... Navarro Bowman taken 91st overall in the 3rd rd by the 49ers. Perry Riley had a big year for the Skins last year, 4th round pick. So when u guys say there are no good linebackers in this class that are difference makers, you'd probably be saying that about Daryl Washington and Navarro Bowman 3 years ago, too. In all likelihood, there are at least 3 or 4 very good LBers in this draft, but this team needs to take the position seriously. I think Kevin Minter could have solved MLB for us for a very long time, taken in the 2nd rd. But maybe the best linebacker in this class will be Sio Moore, a third round pick. I guess other teams will find out while Herzlich and Williams are chasing Al Morris and DeMarco Murray 35 yards downfield again.

 

We passed on Washington for Joseph, Washington has been in trouble, still don't know which the better pick would of been.

[Bigblue25]

Truth is, none of us know that there isn't an Urlacher or Willis or Ray Lewis in this class yet. Nobody knows yet. Maybe a guy like Jon Bostic becomes the next great LBer. But its not like we need to draft a legend at the position, we need a guy with a specific skill set, a guy that can get the job done, who can be an understudy to Connor and be an upgrade to the guys behind him. I believe that maybe the thinking is that Herzlich is the guy I'm talking about, but I'm not confident that is the case, and that's too many eggs in one basket anyway.

 

There have been good Lbers in the draft. The Bucs absolutely love Lavonte David down here, who was tremendous in his rookie season. Same for Bobby Wagner in Seattle, also a rookie in 2012. Both of those players were 2nd rounders. Nigel Bradham and Miles Burris were 4th2nd rounders last year and gave some good early returns. 2011, Brooks Reed, Bruce Carter, Akeem Ayers (even though I still don't like him), all 2ndhave rounders. Kelvin Sheppard is a pretty good LBer for the Colts taken in the third, where Justin Houston was taken for the Chiefs. Mason Foster was also taken in the 3rd that year for the Bucs and has played very well. Akeem Dent, 3rd rounder for the Falcons. K.J. Wright, 4th rounder for the Seahawks in 2011, 98 tackles last year. Daryl Washington, a guy everyone likes right about now, a 2nd rounder taken one spot behind Linval Joseph in the 2nddraft round 2010. Sean Lee for the Cowboys, taken 55th that year. Brandon Spikes and Pat Angerer, taken late in the 2nd that year. Here's a good one... Navarro Bowman taken 91st overall in the 3rd rd by the 49ers. Perry Riley had a big year for the Skins last year, 4th round pick. So when u guys say there are no good linebackers in this class that are difference makers, you'd probably be saying that about Daryl Washington and Navarro Bowman 3 years ago, too. In all likelihood, there are at least 3 or 4 very good LBers in this draft, but this team needs to take the position seriously. I think Kevin Minter could have solved MLB for us for a very long time, taken in the 2nd rd. But maybe the best linebacker in this class will be Sio Moore, a third round pick. I guess other teams will find out while Herzlich and Williams are chasing Al Morris and DeMarco Murray 35 yards downfield again.

 

We passed on Washington for Joseph, Washington has been in trouble, still don't know which the better pick would of been.

[Allstarjim]

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I like Linval, he was a good pick, imo.

[Tempest]

I'm happy that our average linebackers did just enough to win us two super bowls. Maybe we'll get three linebackers one day you want on the field for 3 downs. I think we're at 1 1/2.

 

I also get you might like the philosophy, but hard to argue the results.

[Mr. P]

was this the thread where people were wanting daryl washington?

 

 

News broke earlier this week that Cardinals linebacker Daryl Washington was under investigation for a domestic violence incident and there has been a new development in the case.

It’s not a good one for Washington. Mia Garcia of FOX 10 in Phoenix and other local outlets are reporting that Washington has been arrested on two counts of aggravated assault. Per the original police report, the alleged victim, Washington’s ex-girlfriend, showed “clear indications” of having been attacked and claimed that Washington had choked her.

Washington, who met with police on Thursday about the allegations, is already suspended for the first four games of the 2013 season due to a violation of the league’s performance-enhancing drug policy. Should he be convicted of a crime in this case, he could face another suspension during the season for violating the Personal Conduct Policy.

“These are serious accusations that we are closely monitoring,” the Cardinals said in a statement before Washington was arrested. “Until all the facts are determined, and out of respect for the process, we will decline any further comment at this point.”

A wise position to take given how much still needs to play out in this case, but there’s no doubt that the offseason has not gone well for one of the Cardinals’ defensive leaders.

UPDATE 3:56 p.m. ET: Washington has released a statement.

“This is a legal matter and I am limited in what I can say other than that my lawyer and I will continue to cooperate with investigators and welcome the opportunity for all the facts to be presented. I regret that the situation has brought this kind of attention to my family and my team. I look forward to resolving it as soon as possible.”

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/03/report-daryl-washington-arrested-on-assault-charges/

[JMFP]

I'm happy that our average linebackers did just enough to win us two super bowls. Maybe we'll get three linebackers one day you want on the field for 3 downs. I think we're at 1 1/2.

 

I also get you might like the philosophy, but hard to argue the results.

 

Those average linebackers are no longer on the team.

 

Also, I believe the most valid reference point is the most recent.

 

And most recently, this defense got fucking clobbered.

[Bigblue25]

 

 

Those average linebackers are no longer on the team.

 

Also, I believe the most valid reference point is the most recent.

 

And most recently, this defense got fucking clobbered.

 

 

And A.P and Mitchell, really weren't average. Like you said, the Bears run the same scheme, yet value LB's, but we don't? This article is asinine