Who is better Rogers or Eli?

[BIGBLUE01]

just out of curiosity, the dog was wondering from a giant's fan perspective, what does make eli "special"? no hidden agenda, just a non-giants fan looking to gain a better understanding, as obviously everyone here knows where the dog's opinion lies with him...

 

 

 

Well, his ability to bring a team back, his physical and mental toughness, his dedication to the org.......do you need more? And if you deny these, youre just bein a prick. Theyre all true. He has made some head scratching throws, but he also is a tough S.O.B. who has lead us to victory when it seemed unlikely he would do so.

[JMFP]

absolutely but neither are in the top ten. Ben is average most of the game and Pittsburgh lives on grounding out the clock, keeping it close enough and then hitting the big play in the 4th quarter and Pittsburgh has had this uncanny ability to hit third and long all year. Eli I still love but he makes such horrible decisions with the ball and no amount of game tape will change that, he is a worker though and I think he bounces back especially if we can get Smith, Nicks and Manningham all healthy and we resign Smith. Rodgers was lights out though from the game he torched us all the way through the playoffs, he has improved dramatically since his first year post Favre.

 

Eli + Pittsburgh Running Game + Pittsburgh Defense = Super Bowl .

[JackStroud]

most of us only watch Giants games or Jets games, we see all of Eli's great decisions and throws and all his bad ones.....we only see the hightlights of the other QBs

 

I assure you other QBs around the league make boneheaded decisions, throw mind-boggling picks, trip over their own feet

 

If Rodgers was as good as Brady he would not have gone 10-6 and squeaked into the playoffs......he was concussed at times and

I do not think he broke any annual passing records last year

 

He had a great SB 1st half and did not look so hot in the second half

 

he got hot starting against us and rolled with it...........I'm no ready to declare him King and Eli the Court Jester

 

Phil Simms had a game like that in 86 and never repeated it

 

Mike Vick looked like Joe Montana for a few games last year then faded down the stretch

 

Take Rodgers off the pedestal until he has some more victories under his belt

 

Eli had a bad season, and so did his offensive team...............the year before that Eli had a handfull of picks 20 plus TDs and carried the team

 

 

lets put some more seasons on the counter.

[ksm7]

Well, his ability to bring a team back, his physical and mental toughness, his dedication to the org.......do you need more? And if you deny these, youre just bein a prick. Theyre all true. He has made some head scratching throws, but he also is a tough S.O.B. who has lead us to victory when it seemed unlikely he would do so.

 

the dog would agree with the physical toughness, that is for sure. mental toughness seems strong, but that just might be the huckleberry persona. not sure what his comeback ability is, but the dog always found that to be somewhat overrated in looking at QBs. the dedication to the organization may have more to do with the fact that he has no choice...remember, he whined his way through the draft with san diego, and since the giants gave a boatload in order to get him, he really has little choice but to be loyal to them...anything less would demonstrate a character flaw that he wouldn't want out...

 

anyway, in the end, he is a solid QB. still not sure what is special about what you mentioned, but it is all a matter of opinion the dog supposses.

[Storm]

most of us only watch Giants games or Jets games, we see all of Eli's great decisions and throws and all his bad ones.....we only see the hightlights of the other QBs

 

I assure you other QBs around the league make boneheaded decisions, throw mind-boggling picks, trip over their own feet

 

If Rodgers was as good as Brady he would not have gone 10-6 and squeaked into the playoffs......he was concussed at times and

I do not think he broke any annual passing records last year

 

He had a great SB 1st half and did not look so hot in the second half

 

he got hot starting against us and rolled with it...........I'm no ready to declare him King and Eli the Court Jester

 

Phil Simms had a game like that in 86 and never repeated it

 

Mike Vick looked like Joe Montana for a few games last year then faded down the stretch

 

Take Rodgers off the pedestal until he has some more victories under his belt

 

Eli had a bad season, and so did his offensive team...............the year before that Eli had a handfull of picks 20 plus TDs and carried the team

 

 

lets put some more seasons on the counter.

 

Tell that to the people lauding Eli as this great, elite QB (Top 5 quarterback is pretty laughable, yet I see people claim this on here) after he won a Super Bowl. Funny how that doesn't work when it's Aaron Rodgers who has an excellent season, EXCELLENT playoffs, and a game in which he completely negated the Steelers defensive playmakers.

[JackStroud]

Tell that to the people lauding Eli as this great, elite QB (Top 5 quarterback is pretty laughable, yet I see people claim this on here) after he won a Super Bowl. Funny how that doesn't work when it's Aaron Rodgers who has an excellent season, EXCELLENT playoffs, and a game in which he completely negated the Steelers defensive playmakers.

 

i think you missed my point

 

Eli has as good a resume as Rodgers at this point

 

Rodgers had a hot streak but so has the guy in San Diego

 

Rodgers is not head and shoulders better than Eli

 

Its closer than you think

[fringe]

Tell that to the people lauding Eli as this great, elite QB (Top 5 quarterback is pretty laughable, yet I see people claim this on here) after he won a Super Bowl. Funny how that doesn't work when it's Aaron Rodgers who has an excellent season, EXCELLENT playoffs, and a game in which he completely negated the Steelers defensive playmakers.

yesterday you said pittsburgh D screwed the pooch. now you're saying they were helpless to stop aaron the great .

 

 

 

[Storm]

yesterday you said pittsburgh D screwed the pooch. now you're saying they were helpless to stop aaron the great .

 

Notice I said "Coaching, gameplan, and players". I didn't single out PIttsburgh's defense other than not being able to stop Aaron Rodgers when they knew he was passing every down.

[fringe]

Notice I said "Coaching, gameplan, and players". I didn't single out PIttsburgh's defense other than not being able to stop Aaron Rodgers when they knew he was passing every down.

 

weak..... it's either one or the other. either green bay executed a great game plan or pitt didn't plan or execute. if you say aaron was a magician, you can't then blame the pitt D.

the truth is, take away one turnover, and pitt wins.

[Storm]

weak..... it's either one or the other. either green bay executed a great game plan or pitt didn't plan or execute. if you say aaron was a magician, you can't then blame the pitt D.

the truth is, take away one turnover, and pitt wins.

 

That's not true. A defense can come out and underperform, a coach can get outcoached, and quarterbacks can make good plays...all in the same game.

 

Aaron Rodgers threw 3 touchdowns, no picks, no fumbles so not only did he play well, he was careful with the ball unlike Mr. Manning.

[Bigblue25]

weak..... it's either one or the other. either green bay executed a great game plan or pitt didn't plan or execute. if you say aaron was a magician, you can't then blame the pitt D.

the truth is, take away one turnover, and pitt wins.

 

and if GB receivers didn't drop the ball four times it's a 52-10 GB win.

[fringe]

and if GB receivers didn't drop the ball four times it's a 52-10 GB win.

 

i fail to see how that stops pittsburgh from scoring.

[fringe]

That's not true. A defense can come out and underperform, a coach can get outcoached, and quarterbacks can make good plays...all in the same game.

 

Aaron Rodgers threw 3 touchdowns, no picks, no fumbles so not only did he play well, he was careful with the ball unlike Mr. Manning.

how do you know they are good plays if the defense is underperforming? . mr. manning, who's talking about him?

[Treehugger]

i fail to see how that stops pittsburgh from scoring.

It's hard to catch a pass when your eyes are full of tears.

[BIGBLUE01]

the dog would agree with the physical toughness, that is for sure. mental toughness seems strong, but that just might be the huckleberry persona. not sure what his comeback ability is, but the dog always found that to be somewhat overrated in looking at QBs. the dedication to the organization may have more to do with the fact that he has no choice...remember, he whined his way through the draft with san diego, and since the giants gave a boatload in order to get him, he really has little choice but to be loyal to them...anything less would demonstrate a character flaw that he wouldn't want out...

 

anyway, in the end, he is a solid QB. still not sure what is special about what you mentioned, but it is all a matter of opinion the dog supposses.

 

Off the top of my head, I can think of the CHI game our SB year, vs DEN in 05' I think and the Seattle in 05 or 06, where we lost, but not due to Eli. He brought us back 3 different times, only for Feely to screw it up. And the eagle game in 06 I believe where he threw the winning pass to Burress. Agreed he is solid, but believe he is special too.

[JackStroud]

I can think of many games including a SB game where Eli played better than Rodgers

Eli is a top 5 QB.........coming off a bad year, he will likely spring back with his full offense in place and healthy plus an addition or 2 and have a banner year

 

Rodgers on the other hand, based upon past SB follow up years will likely sink in the mud.

 

We still have the draft and free agency to see where the teams stack up next year. I do believe with Fewell in place and the two knotheads a full 6 months to think about ball security, Steve Smith and Plaxico back that the Giants will roar undefeated into December (if the lockout is settled) and then we'll see from from there

 

Hopefully Coughlin wins a second Superbowl and finally retires and does not have to be wheeled tot he sidelines in his 80's like George Halas was (

[JMFP]

That's not true. A defense can come out and underperform, a coach can get outcoached, and quarterbacks can make good plays...all in the same game.

 

Aaron Rodgers threw 3 touchdowns, no picks, no fumbles so not only did he play well, he was careful with the ball unlike Mr. Manning.

 

One could argue that Rothlisbergers pick-6 was the difference in the game.

 

Rothlisberger played the worst super bowl ever for a QB against Seattle...Pittsburgh won in spite of him.

Rothlisberger had a good game against the Cardinals....but nobody is going to compare their defense to the 1985 Bears.

Rothlisberger had a fair (to be kind) effort against the Packers....and again, if not for his pick-6, the Steelers might have won.

 

In contrast, Eli beat the Patriots, who, if they had won, would have gone down in history as the greatest NFL team of all time. He managed the game perfectly into the 4th quarter, and then threw 2 4th quarter TD passes against a Belichick defense that was 80-2 protecting a lead in the 4th quarter.

 

So, let's put things in perspective. I'm not calling Eli the next Joe Montana....but he accomplished something no other QB did that season: outplay the Patriots.

 

 

I'm not putting Eli up there with Peyton or Tom Brady. But he certainly belongs in the conversation with guys like Rodgers and Rothlisberger. He's got the wins, the trophy, and the stats to back it up.

[ksm7]

i fail to see how that stops pittsburgh from scoring.

 

 

because those dropped passes result in more time of possession and longer sustained drives...because those dropped passes result in TDs....and because when you are down by an excessive amount of points in the second half of a game, you are forced to be one dimensional and the margin for error becomes that much tighter.

 

the dog has to agree with storm on all of what he is saying. rodgers was about as impressive as a QB can be in the super bowl. the pitt defense in the dog's opinion was exposed, partially because they weren't very impressive, at least on that day, partially because they weren't as great as they were made out to be in general, and partially because rodgers has proven to be a very consistent, very accurate, very intelligent QB that limits mistakes, is extremely well prepared, has above average athleticism for a QB, and is a leader.

[JackStroud]

because those dropped passes result in more time of possession and longer sustained drives...because those dropped passes result in TDs....and because when you are down by an excessive amount of points in the second half of a game, you are forced to be one dimensional and the margin for error becomes that much tighter.

 

the dog has to agree with storm on all of what he is saying. rodgers was about as impressive as a QB can be in the super bowl. the pitt defense in the dog's opinion was exposed, partially because they weren't very impressive, at least on that day, partially because they weren't as great as they were made out to be in general, and partially because rodgers has proven to be a very consistent, very accurate, very intelligent QB that limits mistakes, is extremely well prepared, has above average athleticism for a QB, and is a leader.

 

This is going to come a huge shock to a lot of you but receivers do drop passes.......it has happened before in NFL history. I recall back in 1959 where Kyle Rote dropped one

 

are you all out of your Fnnn minds.........passes are dropped in every NFL game.......usually it goes through the receivers hands or bounces off their chests......these are HUMAN BEINGS not robots

 

even robots could theoretically drop passes due to a power surge or wind gust.........whatever

 

if you credited Eli with every dropped or tipped ball as a catch he would be the modern day Sammy Baugh......he and every other QB in the league would be superstars

[fringe]

because those dropped passes result in more time of possession and longer sustained drives...because those dropped passes result in TDs....and because when you are down by an excessive amount of points in the second half of a game, you are forced to be one dimensional and the margin for error becomes that much tighter.

 

the dog has to agree with storm on all of what he is saying. rodgers was about as impressive as a QB can be in the super bowl. the pitt defense in the dog's opinion was exposed, partially because they weren't very impressive, at least on that day, partially because they weren't as great as they were made out to be in general, and partially because rodgers has proven to be a very consistent, very accurate, very intelligent QB that limits mistakes, is extremely well prepared, has above average athleticism for a QB, and is a leader.

 

if big ben didn't throw interceptions, there would've been a lot more scoring. not that i have to explain myself to lonely guy. but if you can read, i wasn't questioning the prowess of rogers. i was saying you can't say pittsburgh blew it defensively and also say rogers was a genius. well you can, but no one will take you seriously. i'm sure you know what that's like.

[ksm7]

if big ben didn't throw interceptions, there would've been a lot more scoring. not that i have to explain myself to lonely guy. but if you can read, i wasn't questioning the prowess of rogers. i was saying you can't say pittsburgh blew it defensively and also say rogers was a genius. well you can, but no one will take you seriously. i'm sure you know what that's like.

 

who was attacking you? you are quite touchy. all the dog was doing was responding to your question about how do dropped passes translate into the steelers not scoring points. the dog went on to simply add that what storm is saying makes sense on all accounts regarding rodgers and the super bowl. you can say the pitt defense was poor and rodgers was genius as well. it is possible for both to be true. rodgers was spot on in his performance. throughout the game he made plays that were successful because of what he did, not because of what pitt didn't do (i.e., the first td to jennings, the third down and long pass to jennings on the last drive, several accurate passes under pressure into solid coverage...etc...). at the same time, polomalu gave a weak performance all game, including the time where he "guessed" wrong on the last TD, the d-line was neutralized most of the game, and the defense made few if any adjustments to the packer scheme that as storm pointed out, revolved completely on the passing game with little to no focus on the run.

 

examples of rodgers being lights out and the defense, from individual players to units to coaching being subpar. if you can't understand that, or take it seriously as you say, then you know even less about football than the dog originally thought, and that is not saying much.

[Bigblue25]

i fail to see how that stops pittsburgh from scoring.

 

because Pittsburgh is the type of team, that takes advantages of second chances. Eventually they will hit the hit the big/miracle play. For a hot QB like Rodgers to get out of rhythm helped Pittsburgh and those drops were killing drives after GB was still moving the ball pretty well.

[fringe]

who was attacking you? you are quite touchy. all the dog was doing was responding to your question about how do dropped passes translate into the steelers not scoring points. the dog went on to simply add that what storm is saying makes sense on all accounts regarding rodgers and the super bowl. you can say the pitt defense was poor and rodgers was genius as well. it is possible for both to be true. rodgers was spot on in his performance. throughout the game he made plays that were successful because of what he did, not because of what pitt didn't do (i.e., the first td to jennings, the third down and long pass to jennings on the last drive, several accurate passes under pressure into solid coverage...etc...). at the same time, polomalu gave a weak performance all game, including the time where he "guessed" wrong on the last TD, the d-line was neutralized most of the game, and the defense made few if any adjustments to the packer scheme that as storm pointed out, revolved completely on the passing game with little to no focus on the run.

 

examples of rodgers being lights out and the defense, from individual players to units to coaching being subpar. if you can't understand that, or take it seriously as you say, then you know even less about football than the dog originally thought, and that is not saying much.

did i think you were attacking me? no.... i just think you're generally arrogant and relatively simple so i was dumbing it down plus i dislike you so i dig when the feeling hits. . storm was adamant about the D being at fault, then he was adamant about Rodgers being a genius. You are bringing it to a milquetoast whiny middle. "gee rodgers was really good but the steelers could've been better...." thanks, lonely guy for your input.

[fringe]

because Pittsburgh is the type of team, that takes advantages of second chances. Eventually they will hit the hit the big/miracle play. For a hot QB like Rodgers to get out of rhythm helped Pittsburgh and those drops were killing drives after GB was still moving the ball pretty well.

Pittsburgh was moving the ball well too. All their drives were sustained.

Lookie here:

http://www.steelers.com/schedule-and-events/game/2010/postseason22/

To me, it came down to turnovers. Like Jack says, guys drop balls, it happens.

If Mendenhall doesn't fumble, we'd probably be singing the virtues of Big Ben and saying Rodgers never won the big one.

 

 

[Storm]

how do you know they are good plays if the defense is underperforming? . mr. manning, who's talking about him?

 

The thread was......

 

And you know because the QB still has to read the defense and make the throw. He just didn't really have to worry about getting sacked because they just weren't affective blitzing.