Seriously, this Joba to the bullpen stuff really needs to stop

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

This has to be the dumbest agruement out there. I dont understand why people dont get it. So, Mets fans, why dont thee Mets use Santana in the 7th...or the blue jays should make roy halladay the 8th inning guy. Jon Lest needs to pitch the 7th. Peavy middle relief is better for him to.

 

I wish people would stop this nonsense.

[Herc]

i could see the argument if mo retired and you needed a closer. i honestly think he's better in the bullpen, but he's more valuable as a starter than an 7th or 8th inning guy

[mickeef2]

Personally, I would use him out of the bullpen for many reasons. One, the rotation is already clogged up (although spring training hasn't started yet) and I would be looking to get more work for Hughes this year in the rotation as the #5 starter, since I think he'll have a bounce-back year. Also, I think Joba's tailor-made to be a closer, and Mo has, what, two years left on his contract? I would make him (Joba) the 8th inning guy, which takes all the pressure off of everybody else in the bullpen, grooming him to be the closer either next year or in 2011, depending on how things go with Mo this year. I wouldn't trust Joba's arm to hold up under the stress of being a starter for a full season.

[Lubeck]

I don't follow baseball at nearly the level I do football but from what I know Joba is perfectly timed to succeed Mariano as the Yanks closer. He has a ton of pitches to deal out...lets face it you are not going to have another guy who delivers a cutter like Mariano you need a closer who has the velocity and the selection Joba has. And the situation is as comparable to Mariano in 96 as you can get.

 

If you bring Joba in during the 7th inning to pitch the 7th and 8th he is doing the same thing Mariano did during the 96 season for Whetteland. And when Mariano retired you have a premier closer to take his place.

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

I don't follow baseball at nearly the level I do football but from what I know Joba is perfectly timed to succeed Mariano as the Yanks closer. He has a ton of pitches to deal out...lets face it you are not going to have another guy who delivers a cutter like Mariano you need a closer who has the velocity and the selection Joba has. And the situation is as comparable to Mariano in 96 as you can get.

 

If you bring Joba in during the 7th inning to pitch the 7th and 8th he is doing the same thing Mariano did during the 96 season for Whetteland. And when Mariano retired you have a premier closer to take his place.

 

I agree with you 100 percent. It makes sense on paper, until egos get involved.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

I agree with you 100 percent. It makes sense on paper, until egos get involved.

well, there is a HUGE difference here...Mariano was not a good starting pitcher...Joba is a dominating starting pitcher.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

Personally, I would use him out of the bullpen for many reasons. One, the rotation is already clogged up (although spring training hasn't started yet) and I would be looking to get more work for Hughes this year in the rotation as the #5 starter, since I think he'll have a bounce-back year. Also, I think Joba's tailor-made to be a closer, and Mo has, what, two years left on his contract? I would make him (Joba) the 8th inning guy, which takes all the pressure off of everybody else in the bullpen, grooming him to be the closer either next year or in 2011, depending on how things go with Mo this year. I wouldn't trust Joba's arm to hold up under the stress of being a starter for a full season.

so you also think that Josh Beckett should be moved to the bullpen to set up for Paplebaum?

[mickeef2]

so you also think that Josh Beckett should be moved to the bullpen to set up for Paplebaum?

 

And why would I think that?

[Herc]

i definitely do think joba is more effective and valuable as a closer than a starter and should be the yanks closer after mo retires, but for now while mo is still on the team and is still pitching well i think the yankees are better served with him filling out the rotation rather than having him pitch the 8th inning and having someone unreliable start every 5 days. if you're going to invest 220 mil in your team's payroll you are committed to winning THIS year and theoretically should feel good about all 5 of your starters if you are investing so much in the current year.

 

also, cashman has his merits, but he simply drops the ball every single offseason when trying to fill the yanks middle relief need. the truth is that a lot of middle relievers come out of nowhere and have good years every year, for the most part they are cheap low-risk high reward types of guys who are basically in contract year mode every season as evidenced by how frequently they change teams. he should give his boy kevin towers a ring and ask him how it's done cuz signing guys like latroy hawkins who had the highest yankee stadium era among current active MLB pitchers or giving 3 year 18 mil contracts to kyle farnsworth just highlights a serious flaw of his. you don't draft pitchers in the high rounds and invest so much time and money in them just to have them pitch the middle innings.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

And why would I think that?

becuase both have shown they can be dominating starting pitchers, both (well beckett more than Joba) have a history of injury, both are fat, both throw in the mid to upper 90's.

 

SInce you seem to think Joba is best suited for the bullpen, I figured youd think Beckett was too.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

i definitely do think joba is more effective and valuable as a closer than a starter and should be the yanks closer after mo retires, but for now while mo is still on the team and is still pitching well i think the yankees are better served with him filling out the rotation rather than having him pitch the 8th inning and having someone unreliable start every 5 days. if you're going to invest 220 mil in your team's payroll you are committed to winning THIS year and theoretically should feel good about all 5 of your starters if you are investing so much in the current year.

 

also, cashman has his merits, but he simply drops the ball every single offseason when trying to fill the yanks middle relief need. the truth is that a lot of middle relievers come out of nowhere and have good years every year, for the most part they are cheap low-risk high reward types of guys who are basically in contract year mode every season as evidenced by how frequently they change teams. he should give his boy kevin towers a ring and ask him how it's done cuz signing guys like latroy hawkins who had the highest yankee stadium era among current active MLB pitchers or giving 3 year 18 mil contracts to kyle farnsworth just highlights a serious flaw of his. you don't draft pitchers in the high rounds and invest so much time and money in them just to have them pitch the middle innings.

middle relief is a really funny thing...its a crapshoot. Very rarely will you a find a middle relief pitcher who is consistant from year to year. He might be lights out one year and out of baseball the next.

[xxi-xxv]

becuase both have shown they can be dominating starting pitchers, both (well beckett more than Joba) have a history of injury, both are fat, both throw in the mid to upper 90's.

 

SInce you seem to think Joba is best suited for the bullpen, I figured youd think Beckett was too.

 

No offense dude because you obviously love Joba, but don't you think its a tad premature to place him as a starting pitcher in the same sentence as Josh Beckett?

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

No offense dude because you obviously love Joba, but don't you think its a tad premature to place him as a starting pitcher in the same sentence as Josh Beckett?

no offense taken.....but I dont think its premature to put Joba in the same sentence as Beckett. Joba has proven he can dominate as a starting pitcher....and in the toughest division in baseball at that. Joba has dominated as a starter at every level. Putting him in the bullpen is really dumb...just like putting backett or any other dominating SP...Maybe the yankees should use CC Sabathia as the 8th inning guy.

 

see how dumb that sounds?

[Herc]

middle relief is a really funny thing...its a crapshoot. Very rarely will you a find a middle relief pitcher who is consistant from year to year. He might be lights out one year and out of baseball the next.

 

right, which is why i think it's easier to fill bullpen needs with a bunch of low risk cheap guys and hope half of them are decent then using a high round draft pick like joba who probably wouldn't put up numbers like some out of nowhere guy like joey devine put up last year

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

right, which is why i think it's easier to fill bullpen needs with a bunch of low risk cheap guys and hope half of them are decent then using a high round draft pick like joba who probably wouldn't put up numbers like some out of nowhere guy like joey devine put up last year

we'e on the same page on this...Brian Bruney, Jose Vera and Edwar Ramirez are all fine middle relief guys...Joba is not

[mickeef2]

no offense taken.....but I dont think its premature to put Joba in the same sentence as Beckett. Joba has proven he can dominate as a starting pitcher....and in the toughest division in baseball at that. Joba has dominated as a starter at every level. Putting him in the bullpen is really dumb...just like putting backett or any other dominating SP...Maybe the yankees should use CC Sabathia as the 8th inning guy.

 

see how dumb that sounds?

 

Sounds really dumb. Just like when you use his name and Beckett's in the same sentence. Sabathia's a perennial Cy Young candidate, Joba has started for about half a season. Beckett's "injury history", as you put it, is mostly blisters, while many teams passed on Joba in the draft because they thought his arm was shot. Last year he was shut down again due to arm issues. I'd say those "injury histories" are just a little bit different. The fact that they "both throw in the mid 90s"? Ha, - great logic. So does Mo. Let's make him a starter.

 

Oh well, you still have the "they're both fat" argument.

[mickeef2]

i definitely do think joba is more effective and valuable as a closer than a starter and should be the yanks closer after mo retires, but for now while mo is still on the team and is still pitching well i think the yankees are better served with him filling out the rotation rather than having him pitch the 8th inning and having someone unreliable start every 5 days.

 

Well, generally, you don't throw a guy into the rotation with the intention that he'll be a closer one day. It's a different kind of pitching and you don't want the guy to develop a starter's mentality if that's not your long-term plan for him.

[Herc]

Well, generally, you don't throw a guy into the rotation with the intention that he'll be a closer one day. It's a different kind of pitching and you don't want the guy to develop a starter's mentality if that's not your long-term plan for him.

 

that's true, i just think when your payroll is 220 mil and you just invested almost a billion dollars in total contracts the last two offseasons doing everything to win the world series in the current season outweighs the more ideal situation for player development more so than it does for a team with a 50 mil payroll.

 

i think joba will have a fine career no matter where he pitches from, but in my opinion there are maybe half a dozen truly reliable closers in baseball (look at what mo and k-rod make for pitching 60-80 innings a year) and a team that contends every year like the yankees are always going to need a lights out closer, so i think in the long run he'd be more valuable as mo's replacement than a guy who might not ever even be the team's ace after the sabbathia signing

[xxi-xxv]

Although I think Joba Chamberlain is an immense talent I cannot place him in the same class as Josh Beckett just yet. Maybe thats just me? At the same time its not an insult to Joba.

[IntlGrounding]

I'm going to enjoy watching Joba pitch 7 innings a game.

 

In my opinion, he would be wasted in the bullpen where he would pitch one inning in games that the starter pitches well enough to give us the lead and only if the relief pitching ahead of him doesn't blow it.

 

If Joba only had one or two pitches and one of them was dominant....like Mo's cutter...then I could see an argument being made. Joba has already shown he has enough pitches and the ability to have shutdown stuff that it would be a waste for him to be in the bullpen.

 

The only people that would benefit from Joba pitching less in games are the Yankee opponents and their fans.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

relief pitchers are a dime a dozen. you dont take a guy with three plus pitches who has dominated as a starter at every level and turn him into a relief pitcher. This is such a dumb arguement.