Drafting a WR

[parlintm]

A few weeks ago I brought up the idea of drafting a WR, stating that the Giants had a huge hole at this position behind Amani and Plax. Some were receptive and others not so much. I think as time has passed people have begun to realize the need for a solid backup to at least compete w/ Carter, Taylor and Tyree while being a potential replacement to Amani a few years down the line. When I first brough it up, I thought we should draft Jackson in the first round. Since then he tore up the combine and skyrocketed up draft boards, making it highly unlikely that we are able to get him. So since there seems to be growing sentiment that we need a WR I thought we should have a topic that addresses this issue. Im assuming Holmes and Jackson will be gone by the time we pick.

 

Santonio Moss - Im skeptical, given his very limited production in college. I think we can get a better talent and a safer pick in the first round. LB seems to be the leading candidate.

 

So this means that a WR we draft will be after the first round.

Some guys I like:

 

Demeterius Williams - I like him a lot more than Hagan. He's got more potential and is a better athlete. He's a great deep threat and I think a good compliment to Plax/Toomer.

 

Jeff Webb - Might be a super talented player. This is a decision for the FO. I dont know enough about him.

 

Jonathon Orr - Very athletic receiver who can be very dangerous. Knock on him was lack of production for his talent but my guess this is because he was in Wisconsins offense which isnt built at all for passing. They are strictly a running team (even Dayne was able to win a Heisman b/c of their offense) so he might be much better than his numbers project.

 

Devin Aromashodu - Very fast and good at catching the deep ball. Also has kick returning experience.

 

Brandon Williams - My favorite mid-round WR. Hes super dangerous when he gets the ball. Phenomenal return guy. Knock on him is that hes short but with Plax and Amani we don't need height. We need a guy who can get open and make a few catches every game to help extend drives. Will get lots of 1 on 1 coverage and if he gets a step on his man, watch out.

 

Devin Hester - This guys not really a WR. He couldnt even get on the field in college except for returns. But he was by far the quickest, most dangerous return man in the college game. Im not really a fan since hes more of a track star than football player, but I felt compelled to add him to the list given his unreal return ability and blazing speed.

 

Williams is the only one on this list that I think might be worthy of a second round pick. The others are all 3rd and 4th rounders IMO. Hester is only worthy of a 4th-6th rounder.

 

This is just to get us started. Let me know which of these guys you like, if any. If you have other guys you think would be good, please let me know. Also, this isnt a topic to debate the worthiness of using a 2-4 round pick on a WR. For now, Im assuming that the Giants will go that route and want to discuss the players, not the position. Thanks.

[HOUND]

I like Orr too but 2nd round is too early.

 

Devin Hester shouldn't even be an option. We already have a roster spot tied up with one "WR" who really should never actually play WR for us (Tyree). The last thing we need to do is add another WR who is limited just to Special Teams.

 

To clarify, I'm not opposed to the David Tyee signing but given that he's limited on the offensive side of the ball, I don't think we have the luxury of drafting another guy who would strictly be a special teamer.

[Guest Floyd The Barber]

not a chance out of the draft of 2006...we will selectively pick the best available LB, DT or DB in this years draft...7 successive picks of defenders...you dreamers thinking of offensive personnel will have to wait till next...

 

our D is our priority this year...thx

[Guest Lockhart]

The Giants always make sure their WR prospects enjoy the environs of Miami, since that is where they are required to practice and live.

[Guest Floyd The Barber]

in fact, im sure the NYG organization being the bar setter of class around the league, will all but dismiss every player coming out of the U. from here on in...

 

they have learned from there mistakes, and would be stupid to let history repeat itself...

[Guest Nutty Sack]

I don't care if Jerry Rice in his prime is available to us in the first round............we better go defense,defense and more defense. We can address WR in the later rounds.

[gmenroc]

Wouldn't mind Aromashodu in the 4th or 5th

[parlintm]

I asked for this not to turn into a debate of whether or not the Giants will use a draft pick on a WR but rather IF they do, who would they take... you dipshits obviously can't read and have made posts refuting this possibility without and semblance of an argument so I'm going to go ahead and explain why using one of the draft picks in rounds 2-4 on a WR is a good idea.

First lets take a look at our roster and from there we'll decide what our needs are. First player(s) listed are starters, --- denotes reserves:

QB: Eli -- Hasslebeck, FA to be signed

RB: Tiki -- Jacobs, Ward

FB: Finn -- Hanoian

TE: JS -- Shiancoe, Berton

OL: LP, Diehl, Ohara, Snee, Mckenzie -- Whitfield, Seubert

WR*: Plax, Toomer. Slot: Carter/Taylor -- Tyree, Ponder

 

DE: Strahan, Osi -- Tuck, Moore, Awasom

DT: WJ, Allen -- Robbins, Duckett

LB: Emmons, Pierce, Torbor -- Blackburn, Jackson

CB: Madison, Webster. Nickel: McQuarters -- Deloach, Peterson

S: Wilson, Demps -- Butler

 

So if nothing significant changes before today and draft day we don't have any positons that cannot decently be filled by the players that we currently have. So the draft will be used to add depth at positions of weakness and those that where we are the most thin. IMO the top two needs are LB and DT. I dont think anyone really disagrees with that so lets move onto our secondary concerns. For this I will imagine the scenario if one of our starters gets injured. Im going to exclude Tiki and Eli from this experiment b/c if either of them goes down we're fucked. We have decent backups at OL, DE, CB and S. That leaves FB, TE and WR. I think the Giants will roll the dice w/ FB and TE but not WR.

 

As those who continually rag on Carter and Taylor for not being able to stay healthy, I'd think you would be proponents of drafting a WR but for some reason you're not. Given how thin the Giants are at WR and EA's eagerness to surround Eli w/ future talent, drafting a WR this year accomplishes three goals:

1. It gives us important depth if the aging Toomer gets injured.

2. It brings another player to compete with Carter and Taylor for the #3 WR... a position in which the Giants were second to last in the NFL in terms of production.

3. It brings in a young receiver to be a target for Eli for years to come.

 

As long as we draft a LB and DT in the first 3 rounds, I think that adding a WR at some point in rounds 2-4 would be a wise decision. It would be more valuable IMO than adding to our plethora of DB's or DE's. Given this argument, you can't at least rule out the possibility that the Giants use a draft pick on a WR -- especially since they just tried to add Keyshawn but failed. EA has stated this offseason that a priority of his is adding a consistent #3 WR threat. He has yet to do that. He's the one who makes the decisions on draft day, not you guys. If he does as he says I think he will draft a WR in rounds 2-4. I would just like to discuss who that player might be. If you dont want to discuss that, its OK w/ me -- just move onto another topic. Thanks.

[Plax 4 Prez]

We didn't resign Ponder did we?

[HOUND]

The only legitimate justification to select a WR in this years draft is if we see Toomer's replacement. That's it. And by Toomer's replacement, I mean a guy who carries a first round starting grade, not a development project. Once you get into 3rd round and second day selctions at wideout you're looking at players with similar skillsets as Tim Carter and Jamaar Taylor. We don't need to draft any more sleepers with upside. Forget about all this 3rd receiver nonsense. We simply have much greater needs on defense at almost every position. It's a weak WR draft so that makes me believe it likely isn't worth reaching for Amani's successor. What you fail to realize is we have a plethora of options on offense to throw the ball to. If Toomer doesn't play a down this year, I don't know that our offense is significantly diminished. We have a solid pass catching tight end. We have a running back who excels in the receiving game. When Eli drops back to pass the options should be Shockey/Plax and Tiki in that order. They're our playmakers. I've got a lot of respect for what Toomer has accomplished but he's no longer a gamebreaker. So even without Amani we have three solid receiving threats. That's plenty for any offense.

 

Thus the draft should be devoted to defense. We have major holes that need to be addressed. We won't take the next step in the playoffs until we toughen up in these areas. The number 4 scoring offense from '05 is just fine. It doesn't need much tinkering. Given that it's a weak year for WR's in the draft it makes little to no sense to force a pick in that direction. Hell, if we were going to spend a pick on offense it makes a lot more sense to draft a Tackle. We've got a much greater need for replacement at that position than we do at WR.

 

We've all been trying to tell you this but you don't seem to want to listen. So if you want to keep creating threads about WR's feel free but don't get angry when you keep getting the same feedback. This draft should be devoted to defense.

[Pizan]

The only legitimate justification to select a WR in this years draft is if we see Toomer's replacement. That's it. And by Toomer's replacement, I mean a guy who carries a first round starting grade, not a development project. Once you get into 3rd round and second day selctions at wideout you're looking at players with similar skillsets as Tim Carter and Jamaar Taylor. We don't need to draft any more sleepers with upside. Forget about all this 3rd receiver nonsense. We simply have much greater needs on defense at almost every position. It's a weak WR draft so that makes me believe it likely isn't worth reaching for Amani's successor. What you fail to realize is we have a plethora of options on offense to throw the ball to. If Toomer doesn't play a down this year, I don't know that our offense is significantly diminished. We have a solid pass catching tight end. We have a running back who excels in the receiving game. When Eli drops back to pass the options should be Shockey/Plax and Tiki in that order. They're our playmakers. I've got a lot of respect for what Toomer has accomplished but he's no longer a gamebreaker. So even without Amani we have three solid receiving threats. That's plenty for any offense.

 

Thus the draft should be devoted to defense. We have major holes that need to be addressed. We won't take the next step in the playoffs until we toughen up in these areas. The number 4 scoring offense from '05 is just fine. It doesn't need much tinkering. Given that it's a weak year for WR's in the draft it makes little to no sense to force a pick in that direction. Hell, if we were going to spend a pick on offense it makes a lot more sense to draft a Tackle. We've got a much greater need for replacement at that position than we do at WR.

 

We've all been trying to tell you this but you don't seem to want to listen. So if you want to keep creating threads about WR's feel free but don't get angry when you keep getting the same feedback. This draft should be devoted to defense.

 

 

I agree with 99% of this. The one thing I dont agree with to an extent is drafting a project type if we do happen to draft a WR. I would be far more disappointed if we drafted one in the first 2 rounds where we have the better chance to find our defensive players that can make some what of an impact this season.

 

I think alot of that has to do with the fact that we dont need him (the WR) now and we can sit on him in relating too what you said in your post about our recieving options. Now when I say project I mean someone with skills to potentially be a good flanker. If the reciever is just a speedster like Carter then I would be extremly disappointed. If he was a reciever in the 3rd or 4th rounds like Jeff Webb or Jonathan Orr I wouldnt be upset. Those guys are two good project type players I wouldnt mind taking a gamble on because they have the ability and talent to eventually replace Toomer at flanker.

 

But like I said I agree on everything else you mentioned Hound, especially the part were the draft should be devoted to the Defense.

[parlintm]

Here's why I disagree with you Hound. I think the Giants are a few pieces away from being legit contenders if they're not already there, agreed? So if I'm going off of that, Im looking to get players that can help us get better this year. I agree that we have HUGE needs at DT and LB but after that the needs arent nearly as dire as many make it sound.

 

So lets say that we take Ernie Sims in round 1 and Claude Wroten in round 2. Feel free to change those names with any other players that you think will be available. The point we get a LB and DT in rounds 1 and 2. So then what next in round 3?

 

Anybody that you can think of that we draft in round 3 on defense will be on the bench, maybe deep on the bench. A third round pick of a DE or CB will be roughly the 5th or 6th option so thats out. Our LB's will be Torbor, Emmons, Pierce, Blackburn, Ernie Sims. The third round pick would be a deep reserve here too. DT we would have Allen, Joseph, Robbins, Round 2 Pick. A third round pick would only see the field this year if we suffered multiple, serious injuries at the same time. So the other defensive option w/ round 3 pick is at safety. It's unlikely that this pick would see the field since he would be the 4th safety on the team.

 

So there is no position on defense which a third round pick would contribute this year without injuries to key players in front of him. So then I look to the offense.

 

Any round 3 pick would be stuck on the bench with the exception of maybe WR. There is such a position as slot receiver in football (comparable to the nickel back) and just because we got almost 0 production out of this position last year doesnt mean we dont need it.

 

Given the production, or lack thereof, from Carter and Taylor I don't think you can say we are set here. At worst, a third round receiver would provide good competition in training camp and would be a much needed backup if Amani or Plax gets injured. My point is that after addressing DT and LB needs, the WR spot is the ONLY position on the team in which a third round pick has a chance of making an impact. If you disagree with this point, please let me know which position(s) on defense that you think a third round pick would contribute.

[HOUND]

Here's why I disagree with you Hound. I think the Giants are a few pieces away from being legit contenders if they're not already there, agreed? So if I'm going off of that, Im looking to get players that can help us get better this year. I agree that we have HUGE needs at DT and LB but after that the needs arent nearly as dire as many make it sound.

 

So lets say that we take Ernie Sims in round 1 and Claude Wroten in round 2. Feel free to change those names with any other players that you think will be available. The point we get a LB and DT in rounds 1 and 2. So then what next in round 3?

 

Anybody that you can think of that we draft in round 3 on defense will be on the bench, maybe deep on the bench. A third round pick of a DE or CB will be roughly the 5th or 6th option so thats out. Our LB's will be Torbor, Emmons, Pierce, Blackburn, Ernie Sims. The third round pick would be a deep reserve here too. DT we would have Allen, Joseph, Robbins, Round 2 Pick. A third round pick would only see the field this year if we suffered multiple, serious injuries at the same time. So the other defensive option w/ round 3 pick is at safety. It's unlikely that this pick would see the field since he would be the 4th safety on the team.

 

So there is no position on defense which a third round pick would contribute this year without injuries to key players in front of him. So then I look to the offense.

 

Any round 3 pick would be stuck on the bench with the exception of maybe WR. There is such a position as slot receiver in football (comparable to the nickel back) and just because we got almost 0 production out of this position last year doesnt mean we dont need it.

 

Given the production, or lack thereof, from Carter and Taylor I don't think you can say we are set here. At worst, a third round receiver would provide good competition in training camp and would be a much needed backup if Amani or Plax gets injured. My point is that after addressing DT and LB needs, the WR spot is the ONLY position on the team in which a third round pick has a chance of making an impact. If you disagree with this point, please let me know which position(s) on defense that you think a third round pick would contribute.

 

I don't think it's quite so simple as saying the guys we draft need to provide an impact this year. Hell that's every GM's wish but it's far from reality. But if you force me to answer your question, and I'm not advocating we draft simply for positional need, I'd say we could draft more than 1 LB. Obviously there is a need on the outside but we all saw how crippled we were when Antonio Pierce got hurt. I wouldn't have a problem with a 3rd rounder or later to back up Pierce. In a perfect world he plays sparingly this season. However if called upon, it would be better than relying on a washed up street guy like Roman Phifer. I dont think it would be a horrible idea to draft another Defensive Back if we see one we like. In fact, this is the perfect slot for the Ernie small school slot. Grab a guy with a ton of raw telent but a lack of big time experience against top notch competiton. You bring him along slowly so that when Madison is cut you have a replacement. I'd even be OK with an Offensive Tackle prospect in the 3rd round. Unfortunately most of the one's available at that point are limited to the right side. However there are the occasional suprises. I agree that Defensive Tackles tend to take time to mature but you can't simply look at this season when making the decision. Let's face it, if you had the guarantee of a solid Defensive Tackle but you had to wait three years for him to mature versus reaching for a position because you felt you had a glaring hole to fill for the upcoming season, I know which choice I'd make. Keep in mind a second day Defensive Tackle may provide a solid situational player. Maybe the guy has zero pass rushing skills but is an anchor in the run game. So we put him in th rotation on first and second downs and he comes off the field in passing situations.

 

There are some later round receiver prospects that I do like. Pizan mentioned one of them in Jonathan Orr. I'd be OK with somebody like this but I would have zero expectation of them providing much for this season. I think you're underestimating the contributions most rookie wideouts make. It's pretty rare for them to see significant playing time. If your argument is that we should look at WR because we need guys who can contribute instantly I'd say your way off base. It simpy isn't a position that provides immediate dividends. Look no further than last years draft class for evidence of this.

[parlintm]

There are some later round receiver prospects that I do like. Pizan mentioned one of them in Jonathan Orr. I'd be OK with somebody like this but I would have zero expectation of them providing much for this season. I think you're underestimating the contributions most rookie wideouts make. It's pretty rare for them to see significant playing time. If your argument is that we should look at WR because we need guys who can contribute instantly I'd say your way off base. It simpy isn't a position that provides immediate dividends. Look no further than last years draft class for evidence of this.

 

Im not expecting him to make a big contribution at all. I just think we need some insurance at this position, at least more than any other. I think that the drop off from Plax to Carter/Taylor is worse than going Pierce to Blackburn. And thats if Carter and Taylor can stay healthy, something they have NEVER done. I just want EA to use 1 pick in this draft on a WR. Thats it. Id be happy with a draft that went something like this: LB, DT, WR, LB, DT, CB, S.

 

I just dont feel comfortable at all knowing that our backups at WR have, in 6 combined seasons, about 500 yards, 1 TD and 42 injuries. I just want some insurance. And maybe this draftee turns into a decent receiver in a few years for Eli when the GOAT hangs them up. I dont think thats too much to ask.

[HOUND]

Im not expecting him to make a big contribution at all. I just think we need some insurance at this position, at least more than any other. I think that the drop off from Plax to Carter/Taylor is worse than going Pierce to Blackburn. And thats if Carter and Taylor can stay healthy, something they have NEVER done. I just want EA to use 1 pick in this draft on a WR. Thats it. Id be happy with a draft that went something like this: LB, DT, WR, LB, DT, CB, S.

 

I just dont feel comfortable at all knowing that our backups at WR have, in 6 combined seasons, about 500 yards, 1 TD and 42 injuries. I just want some insurance. And maybe this draftee turns into a decent receiver in a few years for Eli when the GOAT hangs them up. I dont think thats too much to ask.

 

I don't know that I agree even with your dropoff statement regarding MLB and WR. But that's irrelevant.

 

Simply put, we're in a far better position of drafting best available player, especially after round three, in an effort to improve depth than we would be if we target any position, receiver included. We simply cannot go into the draft with a strategy based on "What if's" because there's an endless supply of these scenarios. Hopefully these depth picks will be made on the defensive side of the ball as I feel we have much less depth there.

[parlintm]

I don't know that I agree even with your dropoff statement regarding MLB and WR. But that's irrelevant.

 

Simply put, we're in a far better position of drafting best available player, especially after round three, in an effort to improve depth than we would be if we target any position, receiver included. We simply cannot go into the draft with a strategy based on "What if's" because there's an endless supply of these scenarios. Hopefully these depth picks will be made on the defensive side of the ball as I feel we have much less depth there.

 

I agree 100%. I just want to use one, 1, uno draft pick on a WR. All 6 others can and should be defensive picks. Ideally this WR pick is in the 3rd or 4th round, IMO.

[lemmiwinks]

We didn't resign Ponder did we?

 

That sig is Sweet!!! Good Job

[Guest Floyd The Barber]

WR is not an area of immediate concern right now...seviceable WR's are a dime a dozen...we need not waste a pick in the 2006 draft on offensive players, unless its a QB...we will draft all defense this year and get back to the roots of NYG football...