yankee fans, would you do this trade?

[Herc]

Hughes and Cabrera for Santana. During 72 hour negotiating window the yanks give santana a 6 year 150 million dollar extension. Santana is locked up for a total of 7 years, 163 million. no teams are shelling out dough to pay anyone's salary.

[Clarence the Blue Puppet]

Hughes and Cabrera for Santana. During 72 hour negotiating window the yanks give santana a 6 year 150 million dollar extension. Santana is locked up for a total of 7 years, 163 million. no teams are shelling out dough to pay anyone's salary.

 

No!!!

[Ditto]

Absolutely not, even though Santana is a lefty.

 

Hughes may be just as good, plus we don't have to give up our best fielder.

 

Hughes came off a bad year because of a hamstring injury. It was only natural that he favored it when coming back, and if you'd have noticed, he got stronger as the season progressed. I stand by my predictions. He's going to be a great one.

 

And, if Boston won't give up Bulsholz for him, why should we give up Hughes?

[Herc]

because boston was the best team in baseball from start to finish and won a world series with their current roster--which they've just finished up keeping intact--you can very well make the argument that boston doesn't need santana nearly as much as the yankees do. im not saying you guys are wrong, but here's my opinion:

 

what are the odds that all three of these prospects turn out to be hits? it's one thing to count on one of your highly touted pitching prospects to be your fourth or fifth starter, but 3 of them to be your 2nd, 3rd and 4th? that's a ton of risk if you ask me. it's not out of the question that by june of next season wang is doing his thing, joba is pitching very well (let's say 3.50 era), hughes is hurt, and kennedy simply isn't living up to expectations. now mike mussina (assuming pettitte retires) is your third starter and and you're back in the same situation as last season when you had to overpay to get clemens (this time it'll be pettitte, perhaps) to come out of retirement.

 

as solid as melky is he's already surpassed where he was projected to be when he was a prospect and he isn't even being counted on to start next season. how much better can he get? and how many games can he realistically play as a 4th OF? if he duplicates his stats and games played from last season i'd say that doesn't make him anymore valuable than any starting position player except maybe damon--and obviously less valuable than all 5 starters + mo.

 

hughes is nice and i think he'll be great, but as far as him being just as good as santana someday? highly unlikely. we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball at age 28 with only 4 years of mileage as a starting pitcher who has pitched well in the playoffs and has excelled in the american league. when you throw in the fact that there are no similar options in the free agent market (a joke), or the trade market (orioles won't trade bedard to the yanks, and peavy isn't on the trade block.....yet). there is more of a financial risk in santana and more of a performance risk in hughes. when you have the resources the yanks have you trade the performance risk for the financial risk and at the same time minimize the rotation risk. if joba pitches well and kennedy bombs then so what? you got santana, wang, joba and mussina and you fill in the 5th starter with a callup or a cheap alternative without putting yourself in the position to throw 20 million at pettitte to get him out of retirement. and if pettitte comes back at the beginning of the season then you are only taking a risk with joba this season as hughes will be gone and then whoever starts the season at the 5th spot (mussina or kennedy) you have a backup for him without making any transactions.

 

anyway that's my two cents, i'd make this trade in a second. if im a yankee fan i love the potential and the promise of having these three guys in the rotation, but i hate the risk. i'd much rather have one or maybe two of them being counted on to hold their own as the 3rd/4th and 4th/5th spots then 3 of them to hold down the 2nd/3rd, 3rd/4th, and 4th/5th spots.

[Ditto]

First of all, Donnie, I already touted Hughes as being our ace by June, and that’s even if Pettitte comes back, so I’m not going to agree to giving him up. The only downside I see in Hughes is a potential hamstring problem. Santana is great and everything, but Hughes is home grown, and being biased, I’d venture to say I wouldn’t even make the trade even up.

 

As far as Melky goes, this will be his 3rd full year coming up, and that’s usually a breakout year for players. If he already surpassed his expectations, as you say, that’s all the better (more better?). I’m expecting him to get better as far as OBP and runs scored go. After an atrocious beginning, he did give us 70+ rbi’s. I don’t know where you heard he wasn’t being counted on to start next year because, as of now, we don’t have a replacement.

 

What does suck is the rumor I’m hearing that Pettitte isn’t coming back, and that will leave us without a lefty starter, and the only reason I would consider making the trade. I’m not counting on Mussina at all, except maybe as a spot starter and long relief help. Joba is untouchable in case Mo goes down.

 

What I will do is a Melky and Wang for Santana trade, but that’s as far as I’ll go.

[Herc]

melky will be on the bench opening day. damon will start in cf and matsui will start in LF. that's not to say melky won't get plenty of playing time this season but the fact that he isn't a starter and isn't being counted on in the everyday lineup makes him expendable IMO

[RandolphScott]

And, if Boston won't give up Bulsholz for him, why should we give up Hughes?

 

 

Boston is the front runner for Santana and in all probability they will offer Lester.

A top 3 of: Johan Santana, Josh Beckett, Schilling/Matsuzaka....good luck Yankees fans.

 

And when are Yankees fans going to realize that Melky Cabrera isn't very good,

at all. He is a good 4th outfielder and that's about it, being in that stacked lineup

hides alot of his shortcomings. If the Yankees had a centerfielder with an arm like

most MLB teams do, Melky would be the Yankees version of Endy Chavez.

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

No I dont do that trade...giving a 29 year old pitcher with small legs a 7 year deal all that money is beyond retarded.

 

 

Melky has the potential to be an all star centerfielder. Im not sure what gives you the impression that he's nothing more than a 4th outfielder...he is MUCH better than Endy Chavez and he's only 23 years old.

[Herc]

i think melky is definitely a starting OF on most teams (i'd take him in a millisecond to replace cameron on cf), but because right now he's the 4th OF and the yanks don't have to rely on him as much as their other tradable assets i think he's somewhat expendable

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

i think melky is definitely a starting OF on most teams (i'd take him in a millisecond to replace cameron on cf), but because right now he's the 4th OF and the yanks don't have to rely on him as much as their other tradable assets i think he's somewhat expendable

I would include Melky in a deal for santana because the yankees have a few cf prospects on the come up...John Damon then becomes a stop gap for Action Jackson. But as of right now Melky is not the 4th outfielder, he is the starting cf with Matsui the DH/4th outfielder and Damon in left.

 

 

[MakeMeSomeFoodHo]

Id like to add that Phil Hughes will be the best pitcher out of the three and might be the best pitcher in the AL East by 2010. Id consider him completely off limits in any trade. Id give Joba up before Id give Hughes up

[Herc]

wow that's a pretty bold statement, but in the end who knows if joba will handle the transition from bullpen back to the rotation. i was beginning to have doubts about how great hughes would be until the playoffs, even so i want to see how he handles adding the changeup to his arsenal before i get too high on him again.

 

i had no idea they were planning on starting melky in CF this season. even so, he is somewhat expendable since you have a capable backup in damon. yeah he's a downgrade but i'd give up some d in the OF for a guy like santana.

 

as for the long-term agreement, sure no one wnats to give a six year extension to a guy who is going to be 29, but santana is a smart pitcher who will adjust to the decrease in heat on his fastball. the guy is already relying heavily on his changeup as it is so I can see him making a pedro-like adjustment to getting old.

 

in general NO ONE wants to give ANY pitcher a six or even a five year deal. pitchers are a risky long-term investment but because there are so many shitty pitchers out there and so few good ones you have to pay a premium if you want to trade or sign one--that's just how the market is being dictated the past 10 years or so, otherwise no team would do it

[Ditto]

wow that's a pretty bold statement, but in the end who knows if joba will handle the transition from bullpen back to the rotation. i was beginning to have doubts about how great hughes would be until the playoffs, even so i want to see how he handles adding the changeup to his arsenal before i get too high on him again.

 

i had no idea they were planning on starting melky in CF this season. even so, he is somewhat expendable since you have a capable backup in damon. yeah he's a downgrade but i'd give up some d in the OF for a guy like santana.

 

as for the long-term agreement, sure no one wnats to give a six year extension to a guy who is going to be 29, but santana is a smart pitcher who will adjust to the decrease in heat on his fastball. the guy is already relying heavily on his changeup as it is so I can see him making a pedro-like adjustment to getting old.

 

in general NO ONE wants to give ANY pitcher a six or even a five year deal. pitchers are a risky long-term investment but because there are so many shitty pitchers out there and so few good ones you have to pay a premium if you want to trade or sign one--that's just how the market is being dictated the past 10 years or so, otherwise no team would do it

If Torre would have started Hughes in the 1st game of the play offs like I told him to, we'd have won the damn thing. Then Torre would have still had a job with a major league team.

[Herc]

If Torre would have started Hughes in the 1st game of the play offs like I told him to, we'd have won the damn thing. Then Torre would have still had a job with a major league team.

 

i guess you didn't hear, but he's coaching the dodgers now. but if your intent was to say the dodgers aren't a major league team then im with you

 

seriously though, you can't not start wang in game 1. torre did a lot of bonehead things but starting a rookie with a handful of starts in game 1 of the playoffs is asking a lot of the kid

[Ditto]

seriously though, you can't not start wang in game 1. torre did a lot of bonehead things but starting a rookie with a handful of starts in game 1 of the playoffs is asking a lot of the kid

F"k it! Throw him out there! He can handle it! It's one of the things I like about the kid. He's got ice in his veins. I wouldn't have hesitated to start him in the 7th game of the WS.

 

Now, a vet whose trying to earn next years contract is another story.

[gateb]

If Torre would have started Hughes in the 1st game of the play offs like I told him to, we'd have won the damn thing. Then Torre would have still had a job with a major league team.

 

Why would you start hughes over a guy who won 19 games after missing a full month to start the year?

[Ditto]

 

Why would you start hughes over a guy who won 19 games after missing a full month to start the year?

1. Wang doesn't pitch that well in road games.

2. Hughes was our best pitcher down the stretch and was adequately rested.

[xxi-xxv]

If Torre would have started Hughes in the 1st game of the play offs like I told him to, we'd have won the damn thing. Then Torre would have still had a job with a major league team.

 

Do you speak to Torre via cell phone, internet or landline? I would love to drop him a line sometime and tell him I admire him for his work with abused children.

[Ditto]

Do you speak to Torre via cell phone, internet or landline? I would love to drop him a line sometime and tell him I admire him for his work with abused children.

Naw, no hot line or anything. But the way I scream at him sometimes, he had to hear me.

[charlietags]

I think with the Yank's history with starters I pass on Santana if I have to give up Hughes, Kennedy & Cabrera. Just look back over the past number of years & who has been brought in. Who is still here? We have had miserable luck with bringing in starters.

[RandolphScott]

I think with the Yank's history with starters I pass on Santana if I have to give up Hughes, Kennedy & Cabrera. Just look back over the past number of years & who has been brought in. Who is still here? We have had miserable luck with bringing in starters.

 

 

The Yankees are now willing to give up Philip Hughes in a deal for Santana.

 

Linkage

[xxi-xxv]

Naw, no hot line or anything. But the way I scream at him sometimes, he had to hear me.

 

I hear ya on that, something tells me that Billy Wagner at the very least knows I am out there

[gateb]

1. Wang doesn't pitch that well in road games.

2. Hughes was our best pitcher down the stretch and was adequately rested.

Aside from a shaky start against Boston, Wang was just as good as Hughes in September.

 

He had 4 very good starts on the road and 2 bad ones, not exactly enough to convince Torre to start him over a guy who's won 40 games over the last two seasons.

[Herc]

because boston was the best team in baseball from start to finish and won a world series with their current roster--which they've just finished up keeping intact--you can very well make the argument that boston doesn't need santana nearly as much as the yankees do. im not saying you guys are wrong, but here's my opinion:

 

what are the odds that all three of these prospects turn out to be hits? it's one thing to count on one of your highly touted pitching prospects to be your fourth or fifth starter, but 3 of them to be your 2nd, 3rd and 4th? that's a ton of risk if you ask me. it's not out of the question that by june of next season wang is doing his thing, joba is pitching very well (let's say 3.50 era), hughes is hurt, and kennedy simply isn't living up to expectations. now mike mussina (assuming pettitte retires) is your third starter and and you're back in the same situation as last season when you had to overpay to get clemens (this time it'll be pettitte, perhaps) to come out of retirement.

 

as solid as melky is he's already surpassed where he was projected to be when he was a prospect and he isn't even being counted on to start next season. how much better can he get? and how many games can he realistically play as a 4th OF? if he duplicates his stats and games played from last season i'd say that doesn't make him anymore valuable than any starting position player except maybe damon--and obviously less valuable than all 5 starters + mo.

 

hughes is nice and i think he'll be great, but as far as him being just as good as santana someday? highly unlikely. we're talking about the best pitcher in baseball at age 28 with only 4 years of mileage as a starting pitcher who has pitched well in the playoffs and has excelled in the american league. when you throw in the fact that there are no similar options in the free agent market (a joke), or the trade market (orioles won't trade bedard to the yanks, and peavy isn't on the trade block.....yet). there is more of a financial risk in santana and more of a performance risk in hughes. when you have the resources the yanks have you trade the performance risk for the financial risk and at the same time minimize the rotation risk. if joba pitches well and kennedy bombs then so what? you got santana, wang, joba and mussina and you fill in the 5th starter with a callup or a cheap alternative without putting yourself in the position to throw 20 million at pettitte to get him out of retirement. and if pettitte comes back at the beginning of the season then you are only taking a risk with joba this season as hughes will be gone and then whoever starts the season at the 5th spot (mussina or kennedy) you have a backup for him without making any transactions.

 

anyway that's my two cents, i'd make this trade in a second. if im a yankee fan i love the potential and the promise of having these three guys in the rotation, but i hate the risk. i'd much rather have one or maybe two of them being counted on to hold their own as the 3rd/4th and 4th/5th spots then 3 of them to hold down the 2nd/3rd, 3rd/4th, and 4th/5th spots.

 

 

[Lubeck]

 

You should send in an application for the GM job :brooding: