Parcells as Giants GM in 2007?

[Guest MontyPython]

A noted columist for the last 45 or so yrs of covering the NYG's has stated : "don't be surprised to see Parcells as the Giants GM next yr when EA steps down"

 

 

What do you folks think?

[gateb]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

 

Jerry Reese guys come on!

[fishgutmartyr]

I agree with GateB--with the job the front office is doing, it would be a sin not to reward them by not hiring someone internally.

 

Plus, I don't think that much of Parcells as a personnel guy anyway. Not to mention his tendency to bail on teams that hire him.

[Guest MontyPython]

I agree with GateB--with the job the front office is doing, it would be a sin not to reward them by not hiring someone internally.

 

Plus, I don't think that much of Parcells as a personnel guy anyway. Not to mention his tendency to bail on teams that hire him.

 

 

nice thoughts - he does build winners tho! us included!

 

...GM of the NYG's is/was his "dream" NFL job and why he left in 1991 when George Young was not gonna give up the position.

 

I have not voted yes or no...yet, I wanna give some folks a chance to vote first

[gateb]

Let's think of this way. If we make a move such as hiring a guy like Parcells things are going to be different. He may have a different philosophy which would force us to rebuild. If we reach into our current FO and hire a guy like Reese, we are assured to continue what we are doing with our FA and drafting.

[Guest MontyPython]

Let's think of this way. If we make a move such as hiring a guy like Parcells things are going to be different. He may have a different philosophy which would force us to rebuild. If we reach into our current FO and hire a guy like Reese, we are assured to continue what we are doing with our FA and drafting.

 

 

I'll respectfully disagree for one reason....Tom Coughlin

 

If Parcells came in as GM in 2007? I would think it would be seamless, and he would leave Coughlin alone and just continue to get him players, kinda like EA is doing.

 

just my 2 cents.

[fishgutmartyr]

I'll respectfully disagree for one reason....Tom Coughlin

 

If Parcells came in as GM in 2007? I would think it would be seamless, and he would leave Coughlin alone and just continue to get him players, kinda like EA is doing.

 

just my 2 cents.

That's another thing--Parcells is a control freak. Imagine how he would be to a coach, especially Tom Coughlin, who's worked under him as an assistant coach? There would be some chemistry between the two, but remember, chemistry gave us TNT.

 

Sorry, just see to many negatives here.

[RandolphScott]

Erroneous, they put Bill Parcells name in place of mine (Golfinkid) I'm currently

building a strong resume with a huge backing of Madden NFL 2007 stats, signings and overall

success.

 

This is just a huge smoke screen as I will never bail out on the New York Giants, although my

only flaw is that I am too loyal.

 

I'll respectfully disagree for one reason....Tom Coughlin

 

You wan't Tom Coughlin has our General Manager?

Do you want to be in Salary Cap hell for years after he leaves?

[Ditto]

I agree with GateB--with the job the front office is doing, it would be a sin not to reward them by not hiring someone internally.

 

Plus, I don't think that much of Parcells as a personnel guy anyway. Not to mention his tendency to bail on teams that hire him.

Plus, I'd be worried about friction between him and TC as there was between him and Young.

[uconngiants]

Let's think of this way. If we make a move such as hiring a guy like Parcells things are going to be different. He may have a different philosophy which would force us to rebuild. If we reach into our current FO and hire a guy like Reese, we are assured to continue what we are doing with our FA and drafting.

 

 

Exactly right now we are to close to a superbowl (if we dont win this year) to bring in a new GM and have him change the mindset

[Guest MontyPython]

Exactly right now we are to close to a superbowl (if we dont win this year) to bring in a new GM and have him change the mindset

 

 

um hello?

 

unless the word has not been out for the last 6 months or so...Ernie Accorsi is retiring after this yr (2006) a replacement will be needed.

[gmenroc]

I voted yes, just because Coughlin and Parcells have worked together in the past seemingly well and there's no reason to believe that relationship wouldn't continue. I'm sure they could come to a consensus on the direction the team would go.

 

And regarding a rebuilding, if we don't do something soon, other than the acquisition of a short-yardage back (which we've done already), to brace ourselves for Tiki's retirement, than we will be taking a few steps backward anyway.

[Guest MontyPython]

I voted yes, just because Coughlin and Parcells have worked together in the past seemingly well and there's no reason to believe that relationship wouldn't continue. I'm sure they could come to a consensus on the direction the team would go.

 

And regarding a rebuilding, if we don't do something soon, other than the acquisition of a short-yardage back (which we've done already), to brace ourselves for Tiki's retirement, than we will be taking a few steps backward anyway.

 

 

I agree with Gmenroc and voted Yes...I waited a bit

 

Coughlin has worked for Parcells before with great success and it could work again. I think Parcells respects Coughlin enough to let him do the coaching....and Coughlin respects Parcells enough to let him handle the GM chores. A match made in heaven for a few years? maybe....

[fishgutmartyr]

I agree with Gmenroc and voted Yes...I waited a bit

 

Coughlin has worked for Parcells before with great success and it could work again. I think Parcells respects Coughlin enough to let him do the coaching....and Coughlin respects Parcells enough to let him handle the GM chores. A match made in heaven for a few years? maybe....

I think it would be a matter of time before Parcells would try to take over coaching duties. "I bought the groceries, I know how to cook my own recipe." sort of thing.

 

Considering how he left, I don't want him back on the Giants again. Considering how he's left the other teams he's coached for, I don't want him back on the Giants again.

[jints]

He got us a ring, so why complain? Unless we get one this season.

[fishgutmartyr]

He got us a ring, so why complain? Unless we get one this season.

He "got us" two rings. Of course, saying that completely ignores the efforts of George Young, who started assembling that team years before Parcells was head coach. Not to mention that Parcells had a defense run by one of the best defensive minds of his time. Or the fact that by the time he took the coaching job, the Giants already had one of the best linebacking tandems in the league for about 5-6 years, and through shrewd drafting, maintained that reputation for 2-3 years after he left.

 

Some of his remarkable coaching accomplishments:

1) Having Scott Brunner lead the way to an astounding 3-12-1 record his first year. This despite taking over a team that missed the playoffs the previous year due to tie-breakers (during a strike season), and had been in the playoffs the year before that. That tie against the Cards, by the way, is the single worst regular season game I've ever seen.

2) Playing Butch Woolfolk (or however you spell his name) well after it was apparent to everyone else on the planet that the guy was not effective.

3) Turning the forward pass on 1st down into a trick play.

 

All that being said, he was a good coach. But this whole myth that he took a team on his shoulders and carried it to the promised land has got to stop. He had two confirmed Hall of Fame players playing for him (another who was damn close, and I'm not even counting OJ Anderson); and a future Hall of Fame coach leading the strength of the team. Not to mention linemen the likes of Barte Oates, William Roberts, (a healthy) Jumbo Elliot; Tight Ends like Zeke Mowatt and Mark Bavaro; and probably the best blocking fullback of his time in Maurice Carthon.

 

The players on those teams were extremely talented; some of the best teams in the NFL at the time, but to hear the myth, you would think Parcells got those rings by smoke and mirrors. The sin is that a team of that caliber didn't have three.

 

Since then, he's gotten crushed in one Superbowl, lost an AFC championship, and taken the Cowboys to a one-and-out playoff run. We actually haven't done much worse without him.

[Guest MontyPython]

He "got us" two rings. Of course, saying that completely ignores the efforts of George Young, who started assembling that team years before Parcells was head coach. Not to mention that Parcells had a defense run by one of the best defensive minds of his time. Or the fact that by the time he took the coaching job, the Giants already had one of the best linebacking tandems in the league for about 5-6 years, and through shrewd drafting, maintained that reputation for 2-3 years after he left.

 

Some of his remarkable coaching accomplishments:

1) Having Scott Brunner lead the way to an astounding 3-12-1 record his first year. This despite taking over a team that missed the playoffs the previous year due to tie-breakers (during a strike season), and had been in the playoffs the year before that. That tie against the Cards, by the way, is the single worst regular season game I've ever seen.

2) Playing Butch Woolfolk (or however you spell his name) well after it was apparent to everyone else on the planet that the guy was not effective.

3) Turning the forward pass on 1st down into a trick play.

 

All that being said, he was a good coach. But this whole myth that he took a team on his shoulders and carried it to the promised land has got to stop. He had two confirmed Hall of Fame players playing for him (another who was damn close, and I'm not even counting OJ Anderson); and a future Hall of Fame coach leading the strength of the team. Not to mention linemen the likes of Barte Oates, William Roberts, (a healthy) Jumbo Elliot; Tight Ends like Zeke Mowatt and Mark Bavaro; and probably the best blocking fullback of his time in Maurice Carthon.

 

The players on those teams were extremely talented; some of the best teams in the NFL at the time, but to hear the myth, you would think Parcells got those rings by smoke and mirrors. The sin is that a team of that caliber didn't have three.

 

Since then, he's gotten crushed in one Superbowl, lost an AFC championship, and taken the Cowboys to a one-and-out playoff run. We actually haven't done much worse without him.

 

 

wow - i can tell this person does not like Bill Parcells, and for a NYG fan like myself to see this after living and suffering through the 60's and 70's of nothing but losing, makes me get some thoughts down.

 

1st things first. ...the culture of the NYG's was a losing culture until GM George Young took over in 1979. Ray perkins (HC) chose Parcells in 1979 to be his Defensive co-ordinator. The defense ranked, with a 6-10 record, 15th. He left after one yr (1980) and came back in 1981. He helped take the 27th ranked defense of 1980 and turned it into the 3rd ranked of 1981.

 

2nd - Lest short memories forget, Simms had a blown knee and shoulder problems coming into 1983. Brunner had led the NYG's to the playoffs for the first time in 18 yrs in 1981. In 1982, he came close to getting them back. Summer of 83? Parcells went with his gut, and to his word, he admitted the mistake 2 yrs later to Simms in private after the spectacular failed comeback loss vs the Bengals. Keep in mind Simms was inserted in a 1983 week 6 loss to the Eagles and promptly broke his hand on the helmet of Eagle Dennis Hairston and was lost for the season. Brunner was traded and Simms was named starter for the 1984 season.

 

3rd - you claim the talent surrounding him could have made any coach win? ha, he pushed the right buttons at the right times. He clearly got players like Jim Burt to play their best, over their heads if you will. Lee Rouson, Phil Mcconkey, Brad Benson (twas a journyman O liner till Parcells got him)

 

4th - not a Patriot fan, but crushed? what? 34-27 or something is crushed? Dan Reeves NYG's went 6-10 the yr the Pat's were crushed. hmmmm.

 

5th - Butchie Woolfolk - short memories again? 1984 week 1 was the last start for Butchie. this was after leading the NYG's in rushing in 1983. Why was week 1 1984 the last start for Butchie? here is Parcells own words from the press conf after the 28-27 NYG win vs the Eagles..... Question: Why was Woolfolk benched in the 2nd half? Parcells: "at halftime we looked at the tape and saw a play where 9 Eagles were pancaked to the ground and Butch gained 1 yard. I could get more than 1 yard with 9 players on the ground (laughter in the pressroom) We thought that it was time for Joe Morris to try and get more than that 1 yard."

[fishgutmartyr]

wow - i can tell this person does not like Bill Parcells, and for a NYG fan like myself to see this after living and suffering through the 60's and 70's of nothing but losing, makes me get some thoughts down.

 

I did my time in the 70's. Started watching the Giant's during Arnsparger's tenure. Fortunately, I have very little memory of those teams, other than Pete Athas and John Mendenhall.

 

And frankly, no, I don't think that much of Parcells. A good coach? Yes. This legend that he's made out to be? No.

 

1st things first. ...the culture of the NYG's was a losing culture until GM George Young took over in 1979. Ray perkins (HC) chose Parcells in 1979 to be his Defensive co-ordinator. The defense ranked, with a 6-10 record, 15th. He left after one yr (1980) and came back in 1981. He helped take the 27th ranked defense of 1980 and turned it into the 3rd ranked of 1981.

 

Oh, he quit teams back then, too? Didn't remember that. Could the dropoff in 1980 be caused by a change in defensive coordinators/philosophy and a new learning curve for the team? Possibly. And something else happened in 1981 that might have had an impact on the defense--what could that be? Oh yeah, that was Taylor's rookie season, when he basically went ape-shit on every team they played.

 

You also mentioned Ray Perkins. You have to agree with me that it was Young/Perkins that changed the culture of losing the Giants had, but Parcells seems to get the credit. I think that's what bugs me the most. Perkins doesn't have the winning record career-wise, but he was stuck with some incredibly bad teams, and things had improved considerably by the time he went to Alabama.

 

2nd - Lest short memories forget, Simms had a blown knee and shoulder problems coming into 1983. Brunner had led the NYG's to the playoffs for the first time in 18 yrs in 1981. In 1982, he came close to getting them back. Summer of 83? Parcells went with his gut, and to his word, he admitted the mistake 2 yrs later to Simms in private after the spectacular failed comeback loss vs the Bengals. Keep in mind Simms was inserted in a 1983 week 6 loss to the Eagles and promptly broke his hand on the helmet of Eagle Dennis Hairston and was lost for the season. Brunner was traded and Simms was named starter for the 1984 season.

 

Actually, I did forget about Simms injuries, particularly the hand injury. Long day.

 

3rd - you claim the talent surrounding him could have made any coach win? ha, he pushed the right buttons at the right times. He clearly got players like Jim Burt to play their best, over their heads if you will. Lee Rouson, Phil Mcconkey, Brad Benson (twas a journyman O liner till Parcells got him)

 

Jim Burt was a good player, who went on to win rings with the 49'ers. I don't think he was ever in Parcell's "circle of trust," and if he needed that kind of button-pushing, he wouldn't have been starting on the niners defensive line. Brad Benson was drafted by the Giants in 1978, so I'm not sure how you got "journyman" out of that. Phil McConkey was a tough little cuss who would have given his all no matter what, just because that was who he was. Lee Rouson? You mean the backup running back that had me break into cold sweats every time Morris was a little slow getting up? Look, I'll concede this point, because motivation is one of Parcell's strengths, but geez...

 

By the way, motivation doesn't translate in a GM position.

 

I'm not going to bother with your 4th point, because frankly I don't care about the Pats, and there is no way in hell I'm going to defend Dan Reeves, who I thought little of when he was with Denver.

 

5th - Butchie Woolfolk - short memories again? 1984 week 1 was the last start for Butchie. this was after leading the NYG's in rushing in 1983. Why was week 1 1984 the last start for Butchie? here is Parcells own words from the press conf after the 28-27 NYG win vs the Eagles..... Question: Why was Woolfolk benched in the 2nd half? Parcells: "at halftime we looked at the tape and saw a play where 9 Eagles were pancaked to the ground and Butch gained 1 yard. I could get more than 1 yard with 9 players on the ground (laughter in the pressroom) We thought that it was time for Joe Morris to try and get more than that 1 yard."

 

He was leading the Giants in 1983 because he had the lion's share of carries. He averaged 3.5 yd/carry in 246 attempts. Meanwhile, Carpenter managed 3.7, and Morris avg. was 4.1. Carpenter had 170 attempts, Morris 35. I don't remember if Carpenter was injured that year, honestly. But combined, Morris/Carpenter managed to gain 88 yards less (769 yds) than Woolfolk (857 yds) in 41 less carries. They would only have needed to average 2.2 yd/carry for the rest of the attempts to be even with Butch. I would expect Morris' average to drop with more carries, but to fail to make up the difference would have meant it would need to drop almost 2 yds/carry. That's not likely. Carpenter had 150+ attempts, so I don't think his average would have dropped much, if at all.

 

So what am I saying? Even in 1983, the RB getting the majority of the carries (and therefore, yards) was not necessarily the best running back on the team. I remember feeling that way back in 1983, and the stats bear me out. Why did it take a full year and 1 running play for Parcells to notice it?

 

Anyway, I agree to disagree, but hope you continue the discussion, because I enjoy talking about those heady old days.

[Guest MontyPython]

I did my time in the 70's. Started watching the Giant's during Arnsparger's tenure. Fortunately, I have very little memory of those teams, other than Pete Athas and John Mendenhall.

 

And frankly, no, I don't think that much of Parcells. A good coach? Yes. This legend that he's made out to be? No.

 

Oh, he quit teams back then, too? Didn't remember that. Could the dropoff in 1980 be caused by a change in defensive coordinators/philosophy and a new learning curve for the team? Possibly. And something else happened in 1981 that might have had an impact on the defense--what could that be? Oh yeah, that was Taylor's rookie season, when he basically went ape-shit on every team they played.

 

You also mentioned Ray Perkins. You have to agree with me that it was Young/Perkins that changed the culture of losing the Giants had, but Parcells seems to get the credit. I think that's what bugs me the most. Perkins doesn't have the winning record career-wise, but he was stuck with some incredibly bad teams, and things had improved considerably by the time he went to Alabama.

Actually, I did forget about Simms injuries, particularly the hand injury. Long day.

Jim Burt was a good player, who went on to win rings with the 49'ers. I don't think he was ever in Parcell's "circle of trust," and if he needed that kind of button-pushing, he wouldn't have been starting on the niners defensive line. Brad Benson was drafted by the Giants in 1978, so I'm not sure how you got "journyman" out of that. Phil McConkey was a tough little cuss who would have given his all no matter what, just because that was who he was. Lee Rouson? You mean the backup running back that had me break into cold sweats every time Morris was a little slow getting up? Look, I'll concede this point, because motivation is one of Parcell's strengths, but geez...

 

By the way, motivation doesn't translate in a GM position.

 

I'm not going to bother with your 4th point, because frankly I don't care about the Pats, and there is no way in hell I'm going to defend Dan Reeves, who I thought little of when he was with Denver.

He was leading the Giants in 1983 because he had the lion's share of carries. He averaged 3.5 yd/carry in 246 attempts. Meanwhile, Carpenter managed 3.7, and Morris avg. was 4.1. Carpenter had 170 attempts, Morris 35. I don't remember if Carpenter was injured that year, honestly. But combined, Morris/Carpenter managed to gain 88 yards less (769 yds) than Woolfolk (857 yds) in 41 less carries. They would only have needed to average 2.2 yd/carry for the rest of the attempts to be even with Butch. I would expect Morris' average to drop with more carries, but to fail to make up the difference would have meant it would need to drop almost 2 yds/carry. That's not likely. Carpenter had 150+ attempts, so I don't think his average would have dropped much, if at all.

 

So what am I saying? Even in 1983, the RB getting the majority of the carries (and therefore, yards) was not necessarily the best running back on the team. I remember feeling that way back in 1983, and the stats bear me out. Why did it take a full year and 1 running play for Parcells to notice it?

 

Anyway, I agree to disagree, but hope you continue the discussion, because I enjoy talking about those heady old days.

 

1. drop off in 1980 was due to injuries and rookies... Carson, Dan Lloyd,Gary Jeter....to name a few, missed most or part of the yr. and also rookie cb Mark Haynes getting beat regularly....Yea, the Patriots offered him more money in summer of 1980, and he bolted. Came back in summer of 81 when more money was offered. whats hard to understand about making more bucks?

 

2. Jim Burt was almost cut in 1981, hiding under his bed in camp. Burt never really played till NT Bill Neill retired after the 83 season due to bad knees, and Parcells was forced to play him with Jerome Salley. Brad Benson was a FA from 1977, spent time at all O line positions, never cementing a spot, until Parcells moved him to left T in 1984, and the rest they say is history.

 

3. 1983 - Rob Carpenter was injured a good part of the yr, and Joe Morris had injuries and major fumbling troubles. Butchie woolfolk was one of the only healthy RB's left. He had no choice but to feed him the ball.

 

4. 1981 - why did LT go "ape shit" against every team? Because Parcells knew that he could use Taylor in unconvential ways (lining up over center was one) and get away with it!

 

5. Perkins - ah, Ray the enforcer. Perkins made a dumb ass move in 1979.... read how the Veterans mutineed against the "3 a day" practices that was killing them, with Carson standing up to him and telling him that no one would be healthy for the season. Thats one reason why they started 0-5 in 1979! in truth, Perkins was what they needed at the time, but he also left them high and dry with 3 games left in 1982 with his "resignation" to go to his dream job in alabama. ...so, thanks Ray for the turnaround, but it came with a cost.

[fishgutmartyr]

2. Jim Burt was almost cut in 1981, hiding under his bed in camp. Burt never really played till NT Bill Neill retired after the 83 season due to bad knees, and Parcells was forced to play him with Jerome Salley. Brad Benson was a FA from 1977, spent time at all O line positions, never cementing a spot, until Parcells moved him to left T in 1984, and the rest they say is history.

I guess I stand corrected with every point here, remind me not to argue with you on this. Benson's only team was the Giants (except for a quick stint with the Raiders in '91), but he wasn't drafted in '78.

 

It sucked to lose Ray when we did, but that was his dream job. When a coaching legend picks you as a successor to your old school, how are you going to refuse?

 

Nice to see other people remember Dan Lloyd. I always thought he was a pretty good LB, but he seems to be the forgotten one in that group.