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They may have done it this time


xxi-xxv
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As a fan of this team since I was a kid and my DAD use to make fun of the manager they called "clueless Joe" I have rooted for this franchise through good times and bad.

 

I was 12 in 1986 and crying that my 108 win team was gonna lose the WS, we all know what happened.

 

I loved Doc in 1985 and all the kids in the neighborhood would sit together and watch him pitch in 1984, 85 and 86. It was an event every 5th day.

 

I died in 88 when Cone ran his mouth and Hershiser broke our hearts.

 

I kept on rooting despite a brutal trade of Lenny our 86 hero for a bum named Samuel.

 

I still rooted when they traded Cone, our last link to the old teams of the 80's

 

Lived through Jeff Torborg, generation K and Dallas Green.

 

Even survived the brutal loss to the crosstown Yankees and the burden that held.

 

I think I may have had enough.

 

Maybe this is my generations June 15th 1977, the day the Mets lost plenty of fans.

 

WHat they did today to Willie Randolph(who maybe should have been fired and certainly said some stupid shit the past few weeks)was as low class as I have ever seen. To make this man suffer through this, travel 3000 miles and fire him in the middle of the night is one of the most disgusting acts I have ever seen in all my years of watching baseball. This makes Steinbrenners old firings in the 80's seem like a love fest. Willie was certainly not Miller Huggins, and he did NOTHING to erase the stench of 2007, and we all know the manager goes first, but to undercut him like this was as bad as it gets. This was a manager who took over a team that was a mess in 2004 and had a winning record from day 1. Again, Casey Stengel? No. Art Howe, no fucking way.

 

Maybe this is my generations midnight massacre? I know plenty of guys who were Met fans and turned their back on the team in 1977 with what they did to Seaver. I was a baby when they happened so I do not know the feelings involved, but this seems as bad simply from a human standpoint. Just when you think the bumbling Mets can not sink any lower they pull antics like this.

 

I do not know what this will come to, but I can honestly say now that it just might not be worth it anymore with this franchise so long as Fred and Jeff are involved. I was actaully getting excited about he way the team looked and had a hunch they might start to play better. Now? I do not know and I do not know if I care? <_<

 

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If they go on a 10 game winning streak and somehow make the playoffs you'll be cheering for them. Winning cures so many things.

 

Not so sure about that, winning is nice, cheering for a loveable loser bunch can be fun too, but when you stop being a respectful organization its hard to root for them.

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They could have handled it alot better, that's for sure.

 

I will not stop rooting for this team. They were my first love in sports, and will always have a special place in my heart.

 

I did mention about a week ago, in the midst of all this drama, that I wish I was a 10 year old baseball fan and didn't have a clue as to what was going on behind the scenes, and only knew players' names, stats, and wins and losses.

 

I feel for Willie, but he is the one guy who can hold his head up high as he handled this whole thing with class and PROFESSIONALISM.

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Not so sure about that, winning is nice, cheering for a loveable loser bunch can be fun too, but when you stop being a respectful organization its hard to root for them.

 

 

XXI, you and I are about the same age, and I was nodding along with your recounting of those old Mets teams, those old memories. And I have to say, as a lifelong Mets fan like yourself, today I have never felt more embarrassed to root for a team. It is very hard to be proud of this organization right now.

 

I do root for the Rays as my American League team because I live in Tampa, but it's not like my lifelong love affair with the Mets. I just thought I'd root them on because like you said, they were a bunch of lovable losers going against the big bad Yankees and Red Sox, and they are a local team. There is an organization I can be proud of, and it's a sad day for me today to feel a fan of this Mets team.

 

I am trying to direct my distaste towards Minaya, Bernazard, and the Wilpons, though. They are the real villains here, not the players (although this group has done plenty to piss me off this year). So I guess I am going to continue to root on this band of players, but I feel very conflicted hoping for a team's success, knowing that to some, it would validate this decision and bring success upon a bunch of jackasses in the front office and ownership.

 

And like you said, it's not so much the decision but the cowardly way they went about it. And Minaya, had he had any real backbone, if he really didn't want to fire Willie and is just being used by the ownership as a some kind of scapegoat, should just resign.

 

This is a tough one to take, but I will root on these guys, but hope that Minaya and especially Bernazard get theirs.

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Classless? Yes.

 

Worth getting rid of them over? No.

 

I know it's easy to get caught up in the pride and everything that goes with the organization but it just isn't worth it. Ultimately our concerns should solely involve the 25 players on the field and leave the business and front office aspects of it up to those guys.

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XXI, you and I are about the same age, and I was nodding along with your recounting of those old Mets teams, those old memories. And I have to say, as a lifelong Mets fan like yourself, today I have never felt more embarrassed to root for a team. It is very hard to be proud of this organization right now.

 

I do root for the Rays as my American League team because I live in Tampa, but it's not like my lifelong love affair with the Mets. I just thought I'd root them on because like you said, they were a bunch of lovable losers going against the big bad Yankees and Red Sox, and they are a local team. There is an organization I can be proud of, and it's a sad day for me today to feel a fan of this Mets team.

 

I am trying to direct my distaste towards Minaya, Bernazard, and the Wilpons, though. They are the real villains here, not the players (although this group has done plenty to piss me off this year). So I guess I am going to continue to root on this band of players, but I feel very conflicted hoping for a team's success, knowing that to some, it would validate this decision and bring success upon a bunch of jackasses in the front office and ownership.

 

And like you said, it's not so much the decision but the cowardly way they went about it. And Minaya, had he had any real backbone, if he really didn't want to fire Willie and is just being used by the ownership as a some kind of scapegoat, should just resign.

 

This is a tough one to take, but I will root on these guys, but hope that Minaya and especially Bernazard get theirs.

 

 

I really truly believe that when I hear people say that Omar lobbied as long as he could for Willie I believe it. I think the real turds here are bernazrd and Jeff Wilpon. You have to listen to Bill Maddens interview on ESPN radio today, he went ballistic on Bernarzard and said and I quote "omar you better watch your back now", real powerful stuff. I actually was late to a meeting sitting in the car listening this morning. Do not know i you have evr read or heard Bill Madden(Ny Daily News)but he is a real mellow guy, not this morning.

 

As for the team I am starting to look at it this way. Jerry Manuel seems like a very respectable man(so did Art Howe :mellow: ) and he has been known to get on guys. My question is as the bench coach did he not get on guys and now all of a sudden since Willie is gone he will?

 

In hindsight, Willie should have been canned last October and started fresh from that mess. IMO Peterson has been bad karma since his infamous "I can fix him in 10 minutes" mantra in regards to Victor Zambrano. I liked Willie and really enjoyed the team in 2005, seeing him start to mold something with the young guys and win 83 games after the awful Howe era and in 2006 seeing it all come together. Somewhere along the lines the Mets changed from that scrappy bunch in 2005 to the mess they were by the end of last year and this year. Guess we shall see what the future holds.

 

One thing I do like that Mauel stated, he thinks 2007 should have been used as motivation instead of simply "ignoring it". If you look at Coughlins talk is cheap theory of 2007 in relations to 2006 it seems that maybe using the recent failures of the past in relation to current motivtion is a good idea in sports management. Who knows?

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I really truly believe that when I hear people say that Omar lobbied as long as he could for Willie I believe it. I think the real turds here are bernazrd and Jeff Wilpon. You have to listen to Bill Maddens interview on ESPN radio today, he went ballistic on Bernarzard and said and I quote "omar you better watch your back now", real powerful stuff. I actually was late to a meeting sitting in the car listening this morning. Do not know i you have evr read or heard Bill Madden(Ny Daily News)but he is a real mellow guy, not this morning.

 

As for the team I am starting to look at it this way. Jerry Manuel seems like a very respectable man(so did Art Howe :mellow: ) and he has been known to get on guys. My question is as the bench coach did he not get on guys and now all of a sudden since Willie is gone he will?

 

In hindsight, Willie should have been canned last October and started fresh from that mess. IMO Peterson has been bad karma since his infamous "I can fix him in 10 minutes" mantra in regards to Victor Zambrano. I liked Willie and really enjoyed the team in 2005, seeing him start to mold something with the young guys and win 83 games after the awful Howe era and in 2006 seeing it all come together. Somewhere along the lines the Mets changed from that scrappy bunch in 2005 to the mess they were by the end of last year and this year. Guess we shall see what the future holds.

 

One thing I do like that Mauel stated, he thinks 2007 should have been used as motivation instead of simply "ignoring it". If you look at Coughlins talk is cheap theory of 2007 in relations to 2006 it seems that maybe using the recent failures of the past in relation to current motivtion is a good idea in sports management. Who knows?

 

I hear you. I have never heard Bill Madden, I'm just out of market for his radio show. I whole-heartedly agree with you about 2007. Ignoring unpleasant experiences or situations has never worked in any facet of life. It's just not an effective way of coping.

 

As far as Willie Randolph goes, I just have this nagging feeling in my gut that this guy was a good manager that got dealt a bad hand of cards. I would've like to have seen a more fiery Willie at times, but who's to say that didn't happen behind the scenes? I would've liked for him to say something in the press to use them as motivation, as Charlie Manuel did for his Phils last year ("This team is GOING to win!") and as Jim Fassel did in 2000 when he "anted up". But I have to wonder... is this season and last year's collapse just as simple as a collection of events completely outside of Randolph's control? Like you've stated, Omar is responsible for Delgado and Castillo's signings. What could Randolph do about the Alou and Church situations? What could Randolph do when Sanchez has a career threatening injury that he's not fully back from and may never return to what he once was? Not to mention El Duque and Pedro's numerous DL stints.

 

Clearly, Randolph got dealt a horrible hand by Minaya and injuries. Could Randolph have done things a little different and squeezed out a few more wins? I think so. But one thing is clear, Randolph didn't deserve this fate, and neither did us fans.

 

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Man I thought I had seen it all in NY Baseball. I have been a Mets fan since age 5, starting in '69 and I used to laugh at the Yankees and their follies. But Jesus what a low down way to do it to a guy. I was never a big fan of Willie as I thought he was more of a Yankee than anything else. But why do it to the guy this way. Either fire him before this series of games and/or wait out the season.

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