gmenroc

Best part of that article is the news on Clancy.

I think with the new cap in place, we can satisfy both positions nicely....also, look for Puke to be asked to restructure his contract to make a significantly lower base amount and more room for us under the cap.....ideally, I wish we could just show him the door, but are there even any decent LT's out there to replace him with?

No better replacements that I can think of when it comes to Luke, and yeah, that'd be nice if he restructured. I think that we can pick up Arrington and Madison without too much problem as is. I think we could even go after a safety in free agency as well. Arrington wouldn't be my first choice for free agent linebacker, but if he's wanting to play here that badly, he may be willing to accept slightly less $$$ than some of the other names.

The signing bonus and salary are completely separate entities, with the signing bonus representing the only guaranteed money. If LaVar signed a 5-year, $15 million deal with $5 million bonus, then he would get a salary of $3 million per year on average + $1 million annually from his signing bonus (signing bonus is evenly distributed over the duration of the contract).

Exactly how tired do you get of explaining the salary cap to people too lazy to look it up?

Free Agent (in order)

-CB

-LB

-S

Draft (in order)

-LB

-DT

-CB

-WR

I, too, am in favor of keeping Joseph around. I think that he's shown what he can do here and there. He hasn't been near as consistent as we would all like him to be. I don't think he's getting many double teams because of our DEs, and I don't think it's a fatigue issue as we do have a rotation on the DLine, but for what he has shown, I just wouldn't want to see him let go.

In free agency, I'd like to pick up a CB (like Sam Madison, Ronde Barber, Ricky Manning Jr., or Ike Taylor)

I'd also like to see an Outside Linebacker (like Witherspoon, Arrington, Peterson, June). And we'd also want a safety (like Chavous, Archuleta, Hope).

That's 3 free agents that are fairly big names, which might and might not be do-able depending on the contracts each of them are looking for. We could be easily outbid by many other teams, specifically the Eagles who now have something like 25 million in cap space, so the extra 10 million we got doesn't mean that will be able to splurge, because obviously, every team got that same 10 million. Basically, the extra 10 mil will allow us to sign our own free agents if we choose to do so as well as pursue a few free agents. I just don't think that we all the options out there that bringing in 3 guys will be that difficult.

1st round, for Linebacker

--Ernie Sims

--DeMeco Ryans

--Bobby Carpenter

(Although from what I've read about Lawson, I wouldn't be opposed to him either)

2nd round, for Defensive Tackle

--Claude Wroten

--Rodirique Wright

3rd Round, for Cornerback

--Anwar Phillips

--Will Blackmon

4th Round, for Wide Receiver

--Cory Rodgers

--Devin Aromashodu

--Brandon Marshall

Really don't see him in the plans for a 2nd rounder. But the issue, as stated by others, is that we have far more pressing needs. Furthermore, with the resigning of Ward, I don't see us going with a RB in the draft at all.

Will Witherspoon AND draft 1 in the first round

As long as we go LBer in the first round and we get a guy with good size, good speed, and good smarts; I'll be happy.

There is a difference between signing "3 FAs" and signing 3 of the FAs that you suggested in a previous post. Arrington and Madison, for example ... that is possible. Arrington, Madison, and Hope? No way, especially when the Giants have to bring back some of their own UFAs, sign some lesser role players, and save money for signing their draft picks.

 

Webster and Eli reinforcement my point that teams are wrong to a.) draft out of need, and b.) enter the draft with a laundry list (i.e. QB in the 1st, RB in the 2nd, WR in the 3rd, etc.). The Giants did not need a QB the year the traded for Eli, as they already had Kerry Collins. The move to get Eli was a classic example of getting the (perceived) best player available. In Webster's case, remember all that rhetoric from Accorsi and Reese last year? "We never thought he'd be available, too good to pass up, blah blah blah." They took the best player available instead of letting need dictate the pick.

 

You cannot use need to make draft picks? It's irresponsible. Rookies are two things: unproven commodities and likely unable to start early on. And you are going to address a need by inserting a rookie? Get a veteran instead, someone who is a proven commodity at the pro level. Use draft picks to augment the talent level of your team. Here's an article on the logic behind drafting the best player available (with a few exceptions, i.e. QB) instead of entering the draft with a laundry list.

Without reading the article (leaving the office for the day), I think players like Eli are the exception much more than the rule. The Giants knew when they were able to get Eli, that he could be the QB for the next decade and that his ability to play QB as a college player far exceeded that of any college QB that has come out in years and likely won't be seen again for some time. That would be the type of player that you draft regardless of what needs your team has. I would say the same about Reggie Bush this year. And in no way am I saying that we should draft all these rookies and start them day 1. I'm simply saying that these rookies, according to the so-called experts (whom I rely upon because I haven't seen the rookies with my own two eyes), are the most ready and closest to being able to start in the NFL.

I simply would draft the best player available in a given position for the first 2 or 3 rounds; but again, making sure that that position is covered by a veteran until that rookie can step in and contribute on a consistent level. After the first few rounds, I agree wholeheartedly that you're taking best player available regardless of position.

Agree, espically if a new CBA is not agreed to, the little cap room we have will be better spent on a vet CB.

I'm thinking that a lot of us are assuming it will be signed. I really don't think that either side wants to go into this season without an extension in place, evidenced by their willingness to extend the deadline twice. It is getting down to the wire, but both sides realize that any extension right now will be better in the long run than no extension at all.

The number one thing that I hate about baseball is the fact that some teams have much more flexibility when it comes to signing players than others. It almost creates an uneven playing field it seems. The NFL avoided that by the sharing of revenue and having a salary cap. If we go away from that, we're welcoming even higher salaries, higher ticket prices, and the unfairness between small market and large market teams.

However, I agree that if we have limited cap room, we have to look to shore up the secondary. I don't want to go into the season with a 2nd year player having the most starting experience in our secondary.

The point of free agency is to address needs. The purpose of the draft is to add talent. If you enter draft saying "I'll take a CB in the 1st, an OT in the 2nd, a WR in the 3rd" then you are setting yourself up to fail and take less qualified players ahead of more qualified players.

 

You're forgetting that is the CBA is signed and the salary cap rises, then competition for players intensifies and their prices rise as a result ... thus, we aren't signing 3 marquee starters on defense this offseason.

I'm not saying that it's going to be like last year's spending spree, but I just don't see any reason why we can't sign 3 FAs. And when it comes to drafting, if you have 3 solid QBs, you're not drafting a QB in the first round, regardless of who's there. If you have those 3 solid QBs and one of the top rated QBs is available when it's your turn to draft, you trade down to a team that needs that QB, but not so far down that you avoid getting who you want.

Case in point - we needed help in the secondary last year and we drafted Cory Webster. The year we drafted Eli, we had Collins, but apparently had had enough with his inconsistency. Not to mention, it's like EA said, sometimes there are players you just cannot pass up when given the opportunity to draft them. These players are obviously rare. But I have to absolutely disagree with you that when it comes to draft day, there's an expectation that the selections you make will fill a need, even if that need is nothing more than depth at a given position. And if you're already set at that position, than you're drafting in another position.

Just my take.

Wouldn't mind seeing this at all.

Draft players, not positions...

 

Also, the Giants do not have the cap flexibility to get 3 of the free agents you listed ... they'd be lucky to get two...

I realize that you draft players, but you have to address needs as well. And I'm assuming the CBA is signed and we gain roughly 10 mil in cap space. If that happens, I don't see why we couldn't sign 3 FA.

Heard on Mike & Mike this morning that the chances are he'll probably be looking for a 1-2 year deal and basically audition for next year or the following year's free agency period to hit the big payday. I wouldn't mind giving him that 2 year deal with the 2nd year being voidable. Simiilar to the deal we gave Kurt Warner I think.

At the same time, we draft one the best rookie LBer we can. Arrington starts this year, rookie definitely gets some playing time. Next year, Arrington walks, rookie starts.

But when it comes to some of the FA LBers out there, I wouldn't mind having Witherspoon, Peterson, or even Cato June (I realize he's a RFA and it would cost a future draft pick) all before Arrington. If we landed Witherspoon or June, the possibility of drafting in a different direction than LB in the first round becomes much more plausible.

I've got the Giants going LB, DT, CB in rounds 1-3.

For the LBer in round 1, I'm thinking Ernie Sims, DeMeco Ryans, or Bobby Carpenter.

For DT in round 2, I'm looking at Claude Wroten or Roderique Wright.

For CB in round 3, I'm thinking Anwar Phillips or Will Blackmon.

And in case you're curious, I'd go WR in round 4 with Cory Rodgers, Devin Aromashodu, or Brandon Marshall.

I've also got the Giants signing a veteran CB (Will Allen, Ronde Barber, Ricky Manning Jr, Ike Taylor, or apparently Sam Madison).

I've also got the Giants getting an OLB via free agency (Will Witherspoon, Lavar Arrington, Julian Peterson, Cato June).

I've also got the Giants finding a free agent safety (Cory Chavous, Adam Archuleta, or Chris Hope).

Chances are we get another backup QB to replace either Lorenzen or Hasselbeck, but that move won't be major I don't think. I would not be opposed to having both these guys back.

Why can't they agree on 58% this year and maybe next, and then in years that follow, have that percentage increase? Is this negotiation thing really all that difficult? I mean, in the long run, they're all filthy fucking rich and it seems like we're splitting hairs. Maybe it's just me being a frustrated fan with millionaires arguing with millionaires over who should get millions more.

He is old and would only be worth a one year deal. I'd prefer a younger CB like Ricky Manning Jr who could be a part of this team for years to come. The only vet CB I would immediately want (if cut) would be Ronde Barber.

That's my thoughts exactly regarding the possibility of signing a veteran CB. If we sign Ronde for 3 years, we're almost guaranteed Tiki sticks around that long.

I like the movement towards younger players too, but a good point was made about Manning Jr's height.

Petitgout - Seubert/Diehl - O'Hara - Snee/Diehl - McKensie

No, they don't get that money immediately. But it is guaranteed, so they will see every penny of it at some point.

Actually, when it comes to signing bonuses, the players do get that money up front. However, when it comes to accounting for it against the salary cap, Money's example was spot on.

The one thing that confuses me more than anything are the performance incentives that players can hit depending upon their play on the field, the multi-tiered bonuses, roster bonuses, and how these are counted against the cap.

Nicely thought through. Not sure that all those players will get to us in the draft, but I haven't looked into it too much. Just becoming familiar with some of the names at this point. Researching who we might draft is a little pointless in my opinion because the draft strategy could change big time depending upon what we do in free agency. And what we do in free agency is highly dependent upon what happens with this collective bargaining agreement.

The only glaring problem I saw was the draft pick trade with Denver. If I'm Denver and I can't afford 2 first round picks, I'm packaging the two of them together and moving up in the first round of the draft, not just picking up an additional pick next year. So that logic is a little off...to me anyways. Furthermore, we'd have to throw in more than just our 1st rounder next year to get the value from both sides remotely close to equal. No way that 1 first rounder this year is equal to 1 first rounder next year.

But other than that, as long as we shore up the LBers and Secondary in the offseason, I'll be happy.

Wouldn't mind seeing a TE drafted as long as by that time we've signed a CB (preferrably a FA), 2 LBers (1 FA and 1st round pick), a DT, a S, and Offensive line depth were all addressed first.

I'll explain through the use of an example.

 

---------------

 

A player's cap number for a given season is the combination of that player's salary for that season and the amount of money from his signing's bonus due to him that season.

 

Let's say Will Allen re-signs with the Giants. His contract is 5-years, $20 million with a $5 million signing bonus. The distribution of his salary may look something like this (hypothetically):

 

2006: 2,000,000

2007: 3,000,000

2008: 4,000,000

2009: 5,000,000

2010: 6,000,000

 

The distribution of his signing bonus would look exactly like this, as signing bonus is evenly distributed over the duration of the contract ($5.0 million / 5 years = $1.0 million per year):

 

2006: 1,000,000

2007: 1,000,000

2008: 1,000,000

2009: 1,000,000

2010: 1,000,000

 

Thus, Allen's cap number during the contract will look exactly like this:

 

Year: Salary + Signing Bonus = Cap Number

 

2006: 2,000,000 + 1,000,000 = 3,000,000

2007: 3,000,000 + 1,000,000 = 4,000,000

2008: 4,000,000 + 1,000,000 = 5,000,000

2009: 5,000,000 + 1,000,000 = 6,000,000

2010: 6,000,000 + 1,000,000 = 7,000,000

 

So, if someone were to say "in 2008, Will Allen's cap number is $5.0 million," they are saying that Will Allen is taking up $5 million in cap space. In other words, if the salary cap (maximum amount a team can spend on player's salaries) for 2008 is set at $100 million, $5 million is going to Will Allen.

 

---------------

 

Seems simple, right? It gets a little more complicated. The important distinction is that salaries are not guaranteed, but signing bonus is guaranteed. Thus, if a team cuts a player, they have to pay him the remaining money from his signing bonus. But, they do not have to pay him his salary.

 

I'll return to the Will Allen example. Let's say that in March 2008, the Giants decide to cut Will Allen. At that point, only $2 million of his original $5 million bonus has been paid to him ($1 million in 2006, and $1 million in 2007). So, if they cut him, the remaining $3 million owed to him gets accelerated in the form of a "cap hit" (and Will Allen basically gets a check for $3 million).

 

However, Will Allen does not see $.01 from the $4 million salary he is set to make in 2008. Since player salaries aren't guaranteed, that $4 million is wiped off the books ... disappears. In this hypothetical situation, although the Giants took a $3 million cap hit (aka "dead money") by releasing Will Allen, they also save $4 million because his $4 million salary is erased. Thus, cutting Will Allen results in a net cap saving of $1 million ($4 million salary erased - $ 3 million cap hit).

 

In this situation, Will Allen's cap number prior to release was $5 million, but cutting him freed up $1 million.

 

Hope that makes sense. Any questions?

 

(Bottom line: don't become a capologist!)

Nicely explained!

Also noteworthy is the significance of the June 1st date. That's the day that the signing bonus is paid. So in the Will Allen example previously noted, if he were cut June 1st, 2008 instead of March 2008, he'd get paid the 1,000,000 bonus that year and the remaining 2,000,000 salary cap hit would take affect the following year. So, in that case, he received 3 million of the original 5 million bonus (2006, 2007, and 2008). The remaining 2 million would hit in 2009. So we would lower his cap number from 5 million to 1 million THIS YEAR, saving 4 million. But, he'd have a 2 million hit NEXT YEAR.

I think I got that right. I'd also agree on the not becoming a capologist.

This year is his last chance to prove himself worthy of a first rounder. He needs to stay healthy. You know he will make the team.

Bingo. He's shown flashes, now he just needs consistency.

Defense begins at the point-of-attack, at DT, with pressure up the middle...which we were sorely lacking last season, especially when Joseph got hurt. I'm hoping we go DT in the 1st Round (2nd Round at the latest).

You're right, we didn't get much pressure. I'm telling you that with Clancy (if resigined), Joseph, Strahan, Umenyiora and the backups, we'd be fine on the D-line if our LBers played better. My thoughts are

1- Outside LB

2- CB or S

3- WR

4- DT

5- LB

6 & 7- Offensive line depth