fishgutmartyr
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Posts posted by fishgutmartyr
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I'd love to hear who that great replacement for Beatty was in 2013, either in FA or the draft.
Note which OTs were signed at that point, and how much--Beatty's contract was not out of line, especially for a starting OT, who at that point, wasn't playing nearly as poorly as he has since.
Here's what was left in Sept. that year:
Jared Gaither
Barry Richardson
Wayne Hunter
Jammal Brown
Sean Locklear
Demetress Bell
D’Anthony Batiste
Jason Smith
Jordan Black
Pat McQuistan
Frank Omiyale
Jeff Otah
Tony Hills
Brandon Keith
Brandyn DombrowskiYum. Quite the selection.
There wasn't that much available at LT that year--and the ones that were didn't get signed significantly lower than Beatty, who was right in there with the typical signing.
This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. We don't spend a fortune on Baas if Seubert AND Koets don't suffer career-ending knee injuries the same season. We're not scrambling for linemen if any one of Brewer, Petrus, Mosely, McCants show something or (in the case of McCants) develop quicker. Baas had us bent over, and his agent knew it.
And before crucifying Reese about the current state of the WRs, you guys might want to take a walk down memory lane and check out some of the WR groups we had before Reese got the job--it wasn't all that long ago we were pinning our hopes on Tim Carter or Sinorice Moss...I'd take Manningham NOW over those two at their "peak", and he didn't even make the team this year.
If you want to fault Reese for anything, it would have to be for managing to find players with long development times and short careers. Maybe he should switch from Tarot cards to runes, or something.
This fanbase has the patience of a mayfly.
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I didn't get to see the game last night, I was working. Maybe if I did, I'd be reacting the same way you guys are.
But, I'll say this, before you guys begin a group hemorrhage: do you remember the first 3 games of 2007? When St. Spagnolo started, we weren't just beaten on defense, we were absolutely slaughtered.
I'm not saying this season will end the same way, nor am I saying that this offense will definitely be all right; but I will say it is way too early to pass judgement on what was done this offseason. And this is coming from one of the few guys on this site that wasn't all that keen on getting a new offense--we have it, so let's give it a chance.
I wanted Martin in the first round, didn't happen. But I'm not about to call Beckham a bust, because I have no idea what he'll eventually bring to the team. From the sound of it, we can really use a WR, so maybe it will ultimately make sense. Beatty probably has confidence issues and rust right now. None of these linemen have played with each other for any appreciable time, and all of them are trying to master the offense.
Frankly, I would have been really surprised if we won last night, and felt that way the minute we went "in a new direction." A lot of you knew this too, but that doesn't make easy to watch.
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Tony Romo must be feeling pretty good right now. Ready to play his heart out for the team.
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Written like a true 5 Decades Giants Fan there Gut... Like you I have endured 18 years without the playoffs...and many horrible seasons ... They made the expected and unexpected triumphs all the sweeter. The sky is not falling...and if they have to do poorly this year to have another run at greatness...I say so be it.
It's kind of comical in Giants-land right now. Most people wanted a new offensive coordinator (which they got), new olinemen (which they got--maybe not all superstars, but all still pretty much on the uptick), and new runningbacks (ditto). Now, at the end of preseason, they're wondering why all these new things aren't running like a well-practiced, veteran team. I mean, we were basically "Team Tiki" for two years after MacKenzie came on board.
It's kind of like complaining that a toddler isn't winning any NCAA track meets.
Our defense is more balanced this year than it has been for years. Yes, the line isn't as ridiculously strong in pass rush as it was, but the backfield should give them more time. And we have a couple linebackers this year, rather than immobile obstacles.
(I started to be a fan during the year Arnsparger was given the coaching job. I actually had trouble wrapping my head around the fact we were in the same league as the Staubach Cowboys or the Madden Raiders--it felt like we were in division II. I had a football signed by Scott Eaton, and my fav player at first was Pete Athas--I laugh at the complaints I hear today.)
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He's probably not going to see the field. Whoever is the backup between Jerry/Mosely will be getting snaps first. Unless he's meant to be more of a backup for center, since Richburg is now the starting guard.
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It's all going to depend on injuries on the oline. If they can stay together consistently, they'll gel faster, and the offense might start showing something. We had an incredible stretch between 2005-2010 where we had very few games missed by our starters. People forget that, and put much less emphasis on cohesion than they really should.
I'm probably going to get slammed for this, but I think Coughlin did a pretty remarkable job last year. Between the clear lack of talent and injuries, the poor play from key players, and the last-gasp condition of the roster; even getting that team to 7-9 was yeoman's work--especially after starting 0-6. Granted, we beat some pretty shitty teams: but we weren't exactly dominant last year, either. It could have very easily folded up and went the way of Fassel's 2003 season.
I think this isn't a year of extremes--I'd be very surprised if we were drafting 1st or toting a Lombardi--but then again, I thought we were doomed at the beginning of 2011 after all the injuries started to pile up. And we are in the NFC East, which has some pretty shitty teams right now. The Eagles had a remarkable season last year, but they also had an outlier season as far as the small amount of injuries they had; and I doubt that the INT rate will remain that low. Dallas and Washington are at least as bad as we are.
There are plenty of things to worry about: the oline, TEs, who will actually show up at WR. We don't even know how the playcalling on offense will go. But the question marks were there already, and we knew there was some gambling that had to be done this year. It isn't the same litany of questions 2013 had, and I think we're in a better position this year than we were this time last year. We're not relying on the the brittle legs of Andre Brown. We're not trying to milk another season from David Diehl, or getting blind-sided by another surgery for Snee. We don't have to worry about JPP AND Tuck. We have some NFL linebackers. Some of our DTs are old, but we also have youth. Same with DE. At least one side of the ball is stable this year--Beason is not Dan Conner, and we're not relying on other team's washouts to save the day. Our older players are either backups, special teams (long snapper and kickers), or in positions with heavy rotation--it's not that bad. Manning is 33, but Simms played longer than that, and was far, far more beaten up than Manning has been.
I wouldn't say a winning season is out of the question, and I'm willing to take a wait-and-see approach to this offense, and give it some time. If we're .500 at midseason, we've got a shot. Either way, I think we'll be in better shape at the beginning of 2015 than we were the beginning of this year.
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Relax. It's just the preseason and you're looking at the stat in a bubble.
ahh...the voice of reason.
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Dan Graziano @DanGrazianoESPN 43s
Giants place WR Marcus Harris and S Cooper Taylor on injured reserve. Tough break for Harris.
Tough break for both of them. Cooper looked good in the games I saw.
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/08/24/top-preseason-grades-4-3-outside-linebackers/
4-3 Outside Linebackers
1. Keith Rivers, BUF: +6.3
Breakdown: The former New York and Cincinnati linebacker has looked really impressive in his new home in Buffalo this preseason, grading positively both against the run and in coverage.
Signature Stat: While all four passes thrown into his coverage have been caught, they have gone for a total of just 23 yards.
All right...I'm trying to keep calm...he could be playing 3rd string for all I know...
You know what? FUCK THAT! We didn't get anything close to this when he was here! How much more evidence is necessary that our LB coach sucks more than a porn star on prom night?
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Grimble must have been the easiest cut Coughlin ever had to make. Did he even get a single practice in?
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Washington has another game winner!
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Robinson making 2 consecutive catches!? Is that in his contract?
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Just started watching after halftime. Miserable. Even worse trying to watch it online.
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Quinn!...That handsome sumbitch
I was thinking more of the linebackers coach--it's kind of damning that Williams/Paysinger are picking up their games only after Beason shows up. And he's got a hell of a lot more to work with this year than Jr. does.
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believe it or not it's possible to have bad personnel AND a bad position coach
Sure it is. But if your personnel did nothing with a coach that's supposed to be one of the best at what he does, it's not reasonable to pass judgement on the next coach dealing with an even weaker group after a couple of months. In an entirely new offense, mind you.
There are coaches on this team that have sucked for years and no one bitches--wonder why this coach is catching grief...
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Don't forget Travis Beckhum was a 3rd round pick.
Dammit, man! I almost have--and now I have to start over...
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Yep.
Take the same squad that caused the firing of the previous coach (well, Beckum, Pope's chosen one, didn't help), remove the two guys that played the most.
Replace them with a FA that causes a resounding "who?" throughout the crowd, and a UDFA that hasn't been on the field for weeks.
Stir.
Blame the coach.
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I'll give you Manningham. He only really gave us one good season, but that was one more than we got out of the other 9 guys in 11 years.
Go back further--old man Young and Accorsi pretty much sucked at 3rd round, too. Dan Campbell was the highlight of players who decided to stay with us before Tuck, going back to 1990 or so. There was Shiancoe and McCaffrey, too; but that didn't do the Giants much good.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/draft.htm
Like I said, at least Alford might have given us something had he not gotten the knee injury (aside from the 1 critical sack in the 1st SB this run); we'll never know what Chad Jones had to offer, but at least there was some potential there. Sadly, if Moore or Bromley give us some production, we're ahead of the curve for this team.
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Also, when was the last time the Giants had a productive 3rd round pick? Justin Tuck?
Damontre Moore might show something this year; same with Jernigan (but I have my doubts). That's 2013 and 2011.
2010 was Chad Jones
2009, the third pick was Beatty; the third round pick was Barden--say Barden.
2008 was Manningham
2007 was Alford.
Manningham was productive. Alford was just starting to look that way and wound up injured and out of the league. Every time Barden showed a hint of something--IR. Chad Jones.
It hasn't been that we've picked badly so much as they might as well have given the third round pick a check for a few hundred thousand and had one of his knee ligaments surgically removed for all the good it's done us. Less painful for the player, too.
The 2008 draft is mind-boggling.
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We're 8 million under the cap but honestly, if we were going to put a trade together I'd rather it be for an O-lineman or TE.
Spiller would have to come REALLY cheap... like, 5th rounder cheap to be considered.
See above.
What we have at RB is meaningless if we can't run block. What we have at oline I'm ok with taking a wait and see approach, but TE? Ugh.
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So much time has been wasted on this project, I'm glad for it to be over so we can try settling on a # 1 somehow.
I really didn't think he would continue. You just don't fuck with the spinal cord. This might sound terrible, and I don't mean it in a bad way, but if he had to find that out the hard way, I'm glad it was just this. And at least this didn't happen later in the preseason.
Another in a long list of failed 1st round running backs for this team. Not his fault, but the net effect is the same.
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Nassib looked good tonight. Not QB controversy good, but "able breathe a sigh of relief that we're going into the season with Painter as #2 again" good.
Is it me, or does Curtis Painter even look bad while handing off? Between the blown blocking of the oline and Painter's telegraphing, I actually felt sorry for Cox at the end of the game.
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Four practices with Ryan Nassib: A breakdown of the Giants backupRyan Nassib was drafted with the hope that he would never play a down for the Giants, but with the expectation that he would edge Curtis Painter in the preseason.
Nassib was schooled to run an offense like Eli Manning, but bred on the second and third string portion of the depth chart, an ever-changing line of offensive lineman and wide receivers.
In the same thought, he can be viewed as the ultimate value pick by the Giants, who scooped him up in the fourth round after many projected him to get taken in the first, or a mistake the team is beholden to for another few summers.
But for now, there is little doubt that he could be one play away from being the Giants starter, which is why the spotlight has never been brighter for Nassib. Coming off a season where Eli Manning suffered his first major injury, one that resulted in offseason ankle surgery, the Giants know there is always a chance their iron-cast quarterback won't be under center.
That leaves a player waiting on the sidelines that, at times, seems to confound his coaches as well.
"There’s been some things he’s missed," quarterbacks coach Danny Langsdorf said. "He’s had a couple turnovers and some bad throws at times. But overall, I’m really pleased at how he’s been throwing the ball as a whole in training camp. It’s been pretty good."
In an effort to gain an accurate assessment of his progress, The Star-Ledger tracked Nassib throughout the last four days of training camp, noting the receivers he was throwing to, the defensive backs he was throwing against, the snap-to-throw times, the level of attempt difficulty and the placement of his passes. Here is what we found:
THE GOOD:
By an unofficial count, Nassib completed passes at a 66.4 percent clip during the last four days of camp between 11-on-11 and 7-on-7 drills and made almost all of his intermediate throws. In addition, a majority of his passes were to receivers who will likely not make the 53-man roster, or end up on the bottom rung. By an unofficial count, Nassib got to throw 10 live passes to perceived starters.
The discrepancy is one of the hardest parts of judging a backup quarterback.
"Well, yeah, it’s always the toughest part on the backup quarterback because they don’t get as many reps for one, and then they’re always interchanging their personnel," quarterbacks coach Danny Langsdorf said. "So they’re at a little bit of a disadvantage in terms of the timing with the receivers. That’s part of the deal. They’ve got to be able to adjust and adapt to that, making those changes, and they’ve got to be comfortable with everybody."
He also showed the inclination to put throws in the right place. Some of Nassib's throws came in high or wide, but intentionally so. During a game when Adrien Robinson is being covered by a safety, the advantage will likely be in the air. Likewise for Larry Donnell, who was also on the receiving end of some high passes.
With Mario Manningham, for example, a lot of the balls were the way Manning would customarily throw them; drooping passes near the sideline on comeback routes and back-shoulder fades that come in with enough room to make a play. Nassib was spot-on during one particular back-shoulder attempt to Preston Parker on Sunday, who caught the ball over Travis Howard.
THE BAD
Nassib had his worst day against members of the starting defense during a session where they revealed some odd-fronts and blitz packages. On attempts during that particular portion of practice on Friday, Nassib tossed the ball out of bounds following a heavy rush, tossed a quick slant behind wide receiver Corey Washington and threw an interception.
On the pick, Nassib looked comfortable enough in the pocket and made his smoothest step-up of camp. The deep ball was to Jerrel Jernigan, but was given up on once a second defender came into the picture.
Langsdorf, understanding that there is little to glean from training camp deep balls due to the decreased competition in air, was willing to give Nassib a pass there.
"The other thing that people don’t always see is how the defenses play the receiver," he said. "Sometimes that receiver is cut off or is too wide and the window the throw the deep ball is cut down. So it’s not always a quarterback throwing up a jump ball. It’s where we’re placing it and being safe with it. It has to do with the receiver releasing and getting on top of the defender."
At times, Nassib was asked to hurry up his pre-snap checklist by Ben McAdoo. His snap to throw times, which varied from a tidy 2.9 average on some drills to a much higher 4.5-5 in other drills, also needs shaving down.
THE CONSENSUS
Nassib doesn't look unprepared, which was the main hope of the coaching staff coming into camp. As a backup, he is studious and prepared. He sells his play-fakes well when working against the first-string defense and isn't taking shortcuts during practice.
Though some of his passes, especially during individual drills, are puzzling, he has made enough growth over the last week that some are taking notice.
"He’s getting more comfortable communication-wise mostly," Langsdorf said. "Making sure we’re on the same page with the receivers and the protection matches what we’re doing downfield. Those are the things that he’s gotten more comfortable with doing. He communicates well; he’s fast at it. If you watch our practices, he’s moving around quickly, he’s getting the calls made to the right guys under good time, so I like that part of it. He’s not wasting a bunch of time at the line of scrimmage."
Interesting article by Connor Orr that puts a little context on what's going on.
Let the bashing begin.
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He did.....and he had the launch time of a rocket.
But I liked Collins....he was on balance a good QB.....certainly the best QB within the stretch between Simms and Eli.
Collins looks a lot better following Brown, Kanell, and Graham than he would if he had directly followed Simms.
He wasn't a terrible QB, but it makes me laugh when I hear about how Eli has to have players around him when I remember this guy:
1) If he had to leave the pocket and he threw the ball, it would be an int;
2) If he was touched in any way in the pocket, the ball was hitting the ground.
When his line was blocking, and receivers were getting open, Collins was very good. Otherwise, you could smell the failure; he couldn't make things happen. You could win with him: but you would never win because of him. That puts him below Simms and Manning.
He wasn't the worst QB to ever play on the Giants by a long shot--I can think of worse QBs that started for this team than Dave Brown, let alone Collins--but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't praying for a QB in 2004.
Simms was without a doubt the most accurate Giant QB I've ever seen.....his problem was:
a) Like a statue in the pocket
b) Outside of Bavaro, really didn't have much to throw to.
c) Operated in a run-first offense.
If there is a stat for "most passing yards on 3rd and long while getting drilled in the ribs", Simms owns it.
Or 4th and 17....
http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/Relive-the-Play-4th--17/8fdf577e-e4c9-40d3-993b-bbb71d7e9b17He probably owned that stat before Scott Brunner started...Those olines were fucking awful.
Now that I think about it, he was actually a pretty good scrambler when he first started--a knee injury took care of that, though.
Another Jerry Reese stinks article.
in New York Giants
Posted
This is just bullshit to make a flawed point.
It's the same one that's been used dozens of times already. It's stupid, and has no relevance to Reese's drafting ability (or lack of it). No matter what you think of his other picks, it's ridiculous to fault the guy for picking a player who subsequently has a career-ending car crash, or players who look good right up until knee injuries cripple them. It just taints the whole argument.
Manningham "Somewhat of disappointment"? In what world is a 3rd rounder who produced for us a disappointment? He wasn't an X WR, but he did make plays for us; even if he was frustrating at times.
"Fucking Amateurs." --Walter Solbchak