fishgutmartyr

 

Exactly; Cruz' SECOND full-time season. Nicks didn't set the world on fire his rookie year either. Steve Smith was supposed to be the smartest NFL-ready receiver in his draft class and didn't make any plays until the playoffs... he had 63 receiving yards as a rookie.

 

I think the jury is still out on McAdoo and I'm not sure what the hype is about either, but I'm happy Gilly is gone.

Cruz was on IR his rookie season.

Call me when McAdoo gets 7 wins.

Or has multiple years running a top-10 offense.

It might happen, or not; but I wouldn't exactly start talking about how much better the offense is at this point.

In the meantime, this article only points out that McAdoo is dealing with the same shit Gilbride did last year--except with Beckham. Frankly, if they didn't draft that kid, the offense would still look terrible.

The only other difference is that you guys wanted Gilbride's head on a pike for similar results. Assuming we even get to 7-9.

 

From your link.....

Give Coughlin a roster with some decent players, and hope the injuries are in line with the median for the league, and the guy can win games.

1) Yeah, wow....Billy B and the Patriots win games with a less than decent squad. What's Coughlin's excuse?

But the fact is, over the last 5 seasons, this team has been among the most injured in the NFL. Add to that a GM that has done a poor job addressing areas that fans and sports writers have identified as problems for years - specifically, offensive line and linebacker.

2) Oh yeah, most injured...other teams haven't had injuries where teammates stepped up? Gotta give me a break there. Reese & co. should have prepared like noted.

No way in hell a crappy coach wins 2 Super Bowls working with the roster he's been seeing for the past few years.

3) No, clearly the problem is Reese and Reese only. Not our shitty defense adjustments. How many games have we lost because we couldn't play a good second half?

 

1) Bellichek is a coach at the Lombardi, Shula, Noll, Landry level: Coughlin isn't. There's no shame in that, but comparing him to those guys is hardly fair.

2) You mean like 2011, where we had injuries, and won a SB? We should have started the rebuild in 2012, if the team was honest in its personnel assessment. That was a last hurrah, that the FO completely misread as a start of a new era.

3) Clearly the problem is there is no clear answer to the problem.

You want to blame Coughlin? How's that offensive line doing? Changing OCs clearly changed the results on offense. On the other hand, adding players to the defense really improved things before the injuries started to add up. He's culpable for that.

You want to blame Reese? How's that star-studded IR list going? With the addition of Brewer and Williams, we're up to 22 guys on it--nearly half the team. Nobody is winning with that many players out. The 2010 Packers had 10 guys on IR, and it was thought to be amazing that they won a SB.

We're in the middle of a rebuild--the turnover in the offseason should have told you that. But I haven't seen one stunted as badly by injuries as this one since the 1970's.

I was never one for interpretive dance.

Nick Grieson, Kevin Lewis, and Jay Foreman. Grieson was injured. Foreman wasn't on the team in the beginning of the season. (I think Lewis was cut in preseason, and had to be brought back, but I'm not sure of that.) None of those guys were supposed to be starters.

Sorry bigblue, but with all the blame-game going on, it's hard to keep track. It's especially frustrating because I don't think Reese or Coughlin are more to blame than anyone else.

This season has seen injuries, age/attrition, slow development, and disappointing results in what should have been strengths--plenty of blame for all facets of this team. Pinning it on one or two guys isn't going to fix this--Mara has to look at the whole thing.

I'll even admit it isn't all on Fewell--he's a flat-out bad coordinator (I'm saying this because of a 5-year record, not just this season), but he isn't responsible for specials or the oline. He isn't getting the players stretched, or handling injuries.

First of all, it's the NFL. The job description is basically "run into each other really, really hard." Most players have been injured somewhere along the way; particularly since between high school, college, and their draft contract ends, they've already played the game for the better part of a decade.

Cruz hasn't been injured before, and it was a weird injury. Beason has been injured, but not his foot before. I don't recall Schwartz or Thurmond being injury-prone. Akumura has a torn bicep, which isn't what you'd expect happening to a CB, at least I don't.

Nobody knew about Wilson's stenosis until after his injury. Same with Phillips' degenerative knee.

Corey Webster played his senior year in college with a bad foot--we drafted him and got a quality starter for years. Reese drafts Thomas who had one knee injury before years earlier that was ok by his senior year, and got a couple of years out of him, too--unfortunately, not for the same length of time we had Webster. But you can't fault Reese and praise Accorsi for doing the same thing.

You can't really fault a GM for injuries--and if you could, I could think of a few years where you would have to say Accorsi screwed up, too--does anyone remember who the linebackers were in the 2005 playoff game?

I'm pretty sure the Giants lead the league in players on IR, or at least starter-games-missed because of injury or IR.

That's true. We do lead the league in IR, and with the exception of DRC (injured), Walton, and Jerry, it reads like this year's FA class; with a few crucial additions.

We probably do lead the league in starter-games-missed, but I'm not sure. If we do, it would be the second year running.

As for Shawn Williams and Will Allen: Williams spent more time on IR than on the field--and never really got it going. When he was relatively healthy, he'd get starts--but they were William Joseph starts, if you know what I mean.

Will Allen got injured a lot, but was better at staying on the field. To be fair, he was decent in coverage, but couldn't get an INT at gun-point. He'd drop passes that seemed to have been thrown to him.

 

 

Fair points, but Accorsi also hired Coughlin, and swung the draft day trade for Eli Manning, who in turn became the best Giants QB of all time.

 

In that same 2004 draft, Accorsi gets Chris Snee, Torbor, Wilson, and Derrick Ward.

 

One year later 2005, maybe the best case of drafting you could ask for.....without a 1st rounder, and only 4 picks, Accorsi gets Webster, Tuck and Jacobs.

 

2006, they drafted Kiwanuka, who is STILL starting on the team.....I'd blame Reese for that, not Accorsi. Cofield was a solid pickup in the 4th.

 

Ward was poached off of the Jets practice squad. Not part of the draft, just like Cruz.

I've been hearing all season that Reese's drafts were bad because no one is left from some of his drafts--even if the reason was that they went to another team after their rookie contract was up--using that same "logic," you shouldn't include Wilson or Torbor. Or Cofield. I think it's a stupid argument, because obviously it's a good pick if somebody's willing to play for the player, but I don't make the rules.

I could easily argue that Kiwi was a botched pick--I'll leave it to you to decide whether he was a full time sub/guy who had to play out of position because he couldn't break into the line. We traded our position that year to Pittsburgh, who immediately selected Santonio Holmes. We took the extra pick, packaged it with our 2nd rounder, and got Sinorice Moss. Slick.

 

Yeah, I get it, Accorsi had his share of misses......but when he turned the team over to Reese in 2007, he had built:

 

1) An excellent defensive line

2) A very solid offensive line

3) A coach who will likely be heading to Canton

4) The best QB in Giants history

5) A battering ram running back

6) A pro-Bowl receiver (Plax) and the best Giants receiver of all time (Toomer)

 

I'll credit Reese with a strong 2007 draft that rounded out the roster, but that 2007 team was an Ernie Accorsi production, from the coach, to the QB, to the D-Line, and the O-Line. Even in 2011, when clear flags were being raised, the Giants managed to get another Championship from a roster with Ernie's players still forming their veteran core.

 

Unlike Accorsi, Reese has never had to deal with the 2 biggest priorities of any GM - finding a coach and a QB. For 8 straight seasons, he's had the luxury of knowing who is going to coach the team, and who is going to lead the offense. That's a luxury that most every other GM in the NFL would have loved to have.

 

From everything I've heard, Coughlin was Mara's guy, not Accorsi's. Yes, Eli was Ernie's guy.

The defensive line? You mean the one with the Hall of Famer that George Young drafted? Was this George Young's team too?

If Accorsi was still around in 2007, Pettigout would have been LT, not Diehl, and there wouldn't have been room for Seubert.

Wait--Toomer the best Giant's receiver of all time!? Seriously? Longest career of all time? Sure. Most yards in team history? Definitely. Best? No way. I would take Nicks, Smith, Cruz, OBJ, and Del Shofner over him. Hell, I'd take Burress, and I despise that moron.

 

I look at what Reese inherited, and where the team is now, and by that measure, Accorsi did a better job as GM. That doesn't mean I want Reese fired. But I don't think Reese's mistakes should be placed at the feet of a Head Coach who has twice proven that he win a championship with the right players.

 

Contrast Coughlin with Harbaugh...... does anyone in the NFL feel that the 49ers aren't loaded on paper?......and yet Harbaugh hasn't been able to beat inferior opponents with superior players. In 2007, Coughlin's guys managed to beat the Cowboys, Packers, and undefeated Patriots, in that order. IN 2011, they travelled to SF and beat Harbaugh's team in his own house....prior to that, they had beaten a Packers team that looked like the most dangerous team in the NFL. And of course, they finished it off with beating Belichick and Brady for the second time.

 

Great coaches - like Coughlin - are a rare breed.

Never said I wanted Coughlin gone--I'm just tired of the Accorsi mythology.

Wayne Garrett played baseball in the 70's for the Mets, Fish. I think you're thinking of someone else. I hope?

lol, you're right. I was thinking Barry Stokes. I'm not even sure how I got to Wayne there--maybe a spark from a neuron hit a piece of aluminum up there.

 

What it says to me is;

 

Hey were not the Redskins, we are going to be throwing the DC, special teams coach, a bunch of assistant coaches, the strength and condition staff out the door, along with a roster turnover and maybe even firing the head of scouting.

 

The last thing any new HC or GM needs is to come into a team during chaos and no stability what so ever, that's not how this organization has or ever will be run, once again they arnt the Redskins who get to drown any coach they bring in, in nothing but constant coach and roster turnover. What the team does need is stability until the time comes when Coughlin is "retired" and JR tires to prove himself, no blame is passed but the Giant's can continue to build a team suitable for the next HC to come in, much like the team EA built for Coughlin and Eli to come in and lead.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/new-york-giants/roster/2003

Look at this roster. It contains the following: an overrated, often injured TE, a wide receiver tandem that managed to go an entire season without a touchdown in 2004, a running back on the brink of losing his career because of fumbling problems, a HOF'er drafted before Accorsi, and a couple of good draft picks in Diehl and Umenyiora, who hadn't done much of anything to that point. A severly injured Rich Seubert. A left tackle who was already in decline. Keith Hamilton in his last year of freedom, literally. Out of 53 players, those are the ones even worth mentioning, and a good chunk of those were pretty freaking flawed.

Our oline was a joke, our linebackers not much better than the ones we have now, and the defensive backfield couldn't buy an interception (they kept dropping their money). Kerry Collins had mobility that made Eli look like Michael Vick in his prime.

The team that Accorsi "built for Coughlin and Eli to lead" was 2 years away from even seeing a playoff loss, and 4 years from a SB. Accorsi gets credit for O'Hara, MacKenzie, Pierce--but what about flops like Carlos Emmons, Barrett Green, and Wayne Garrett? Norman Hand? How close did he get to fucking us for years with the Arrington signing? What about the legend that was Kenny Holmes? What about all the years we didn't sign anyone because we were so cap-fucked?

Want to talk drafts? He had 11 picks in 2003. 11. We kept Umenyiora, Diehl, Tyree, and Shiancoe for any length of time. We wasted Shiancoe. We cut Keven Walter. So we could hold on to Willie Ponder, I guess.

How long were we stuck with William Joseph, Tim Carter, Gerris Wilkinson, Sinorice Moss, Shaun Williams, the two Wills, and a bunch of others hoping we'd get something, anything out of them? Fucking Ron Dayne!? Accorsi bombed out on 4 first rounders on this list alone (Dayne, Williams, Allen, Joseph)--and you guys are putting him on a pedestal while crucifying Reese for Sintim, Austin and some lousy mid-round picks? Or do we then switch the argument to Reese being Accorsi's head of scouting, without giving Reese some credit for the 2004-2005 drafts?

Reese has had some shit luck, and made some bad picks. But that doesn't turn Accorsi into a genius.

(I'm sorry, BiC, I don't mean to take it out on your post, but this drives me crazy. Sometimes I think I live in a completely different reality. Even worse, I think I missed the point of your post. I think you hit a trigger with that, lol.)

While I'm thinking of it, I wish you guys would stop bunching the 2008 draft with 2009-2012. That was a very good draft with some really lousy knees. The talent was there--it just couldn't stay on the field.

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/update/24870917/giants-promote-dl-paul-hazel-waive-dt-dominique-hamilton

 

Giants promote DL Paul Hazel, waive DT Dominique Hamilton

by Igor Mello | CBSSports.com

 

Sat, 06 Dec 2014 1:52 PM ET

The Giants announced a pair of roster moves prior to Sunday's game against Tennessee, the Recordreports. The team promoted defensive lineman Paul Hazel from the practice squad to the 53-man active roster and waived defensive tackle Dominique Hamilton.

 

Our backup LBs for our next defeat will be Hazel/Davidson.

When I didn't want to see Herzlich play anymore, this isn't quite what I had in mind...But I'm sure Hermann has these guys all coached up since Tuesday so that it will be a smooth transition if they need to go on the field. I'm sure they will position themselves as well as Williams did.

...And you guys were worried about winning ourselves out of our drafting position...

I'd say better late than never.

It looks to me like Reese and Coughlin have the same, noble problem: too loyal to their underlings. Reese's general theory is a reasonable one--if you draft well, you don't spend on FAs, and you turn over your own. But that totally hinges on your draft, and that falls completely on how well your scouting staff does their job--Marc Ross. Our scouting system hasn't changed as far as we know from when Reese was in the spot, so the problem probably lies with the guy that replaced him.

Same with Coughlin. This team sucks, but it hasn't given up--that's not a sign of a poorly coached team. Conversely, specials have always been average or less, even drafting players specifically for their special teams skills. With the exception of the backfield, the defense can't develop players, can't get in position, and can't make clutch plays. That's all coaching issues, but at levels lower than Coughlin. If he makes a stink, let Coughlin go, but I don't think he will; he has to see what we're seeing. He'll never say it--he doesn't air the laundry in the press--but he's smart enough to see it.

I completely agree with Pat Traina:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2289196-5-ways-to-fix-the-ny-giants-front-office-and-coaching-staffs

I just thought of something--we're not getting that many games out of our draft choices, that's been established all over the place.

On the other hand, I'm having a real problem thinking of any huge influx of FAs (other than this year, obviously) that we've been relying on between 2010 and 2013. Canty (gone), Boley (gone), Antrelle Rolle, Dan Conner(one game wonder), Baas (gone), Patterson/Jenkins, Beason, Jon Conner(we signed because we had to), Dallas Reynolds (we signed because we had to), Rivers(gone), and Bennet (for one year). Locklear(gone). Oh, and a couple of former picks that were ancient and/or broken down: Ross and Andre Brown, both gone.

I'm not counting guys who never made it out of preseason like Curry.

So not only have our drafts been unproductive (we all agree on that phrase--we argue about why it they were unproductive), we haven't been trying to upgrade/compensate for free agency losses/retirement through free agency, either. It's like we took an older 2010 team and said "Let it ride," for 3 years, hoping that things will magically not go to shit as players age or go elsewhere.

I'm not going to list the players we lost--it's too depressing.

 

I had to draw the line somewhere, so admittedly, I didn't go into the undrafted free agents...but I excluded them from all teams...not just the Giants.

 

I agree, that injuries are an x factor that can't necessarily be predicted in many cases. I agree further, that that's not necessarily on the GM. I could argue though, that it's the GM's responsibility to maintain the depth on the team. And, that in my scenario, that a GM who provides his team with depth as opposed to superstars, could score better. Consider a team that drafts a 1st round OT and a 5th round OT in the same year. Assuming the first round OT earns the starting spot and gets injured in the team's 8th game. The GM could earn more points from the backup in the 2nd half of the season than they would in the 1st half of the season. So, the injury would actually help the GM...

 

That said, I won't argue that the way I did this doesn't have flaws.

• It IS only 5 years.
• Some teams have changed GMs in that period of time...so in some cases, it's comparing TEAMS as opposed to GMs...a point I made in a thread here last week.
• Injuries are a wild card...but the only real way I could come up with to account for that is to penalize all teams for the injuries they sustained because in the case of a Chad Jones, there is no way of knowing if he would have registered 'games played' or not.

 

I think you've taken this as far as someone can without earning a paycheck for the trouble.

Without going into even more ridiculous amounts of detail, this sort of thing is still going to be flawed. I could argue stuff like Chad Jones, but I'll go the other way--James Brewer:

• 4th rounder;
• played in 26 games (8 starts);
• gets a win percentage multiplier that includes a 10-6 season and a Superbowl, when he's only played games for teams comfortably below .500

Anyone care to argue that Brewer deserves to be that many points in the Giant's total, value-wise?

Meanwhile, guys like Cruz and Hynoski aren't factored in at all.

A great pick on a shitty team is going to be worth less than a terrible pick on a great team, playing the same amount of games. Of course, you'd expect a great pick to play more on a bad team, but I could think of circumstances that would block that (better, more expensive FA, coach with concussion history, etc.).

Like I said, I applaud you on the work you've done. That's a damn impressive task to take on for ungrateful bastids like me.

Jeez....20 players on IR is a shit-load at 3/4 way through the season.

 

TEAM INJURED RESERVE COUNT

 

New York Giants - 20

Seattle Seahawks - 16

Indianapolis Colts - 12

Jacksonville Jaguars - 11

Kansas City Chiefs - 11

Miami Dolphins - 11

San Diego Chargers - 11

Baltimore Ravens - 10

New Orleans Saints - 10

San Francisco 49ers - 10

Atlanta Falcons - 9

Dallas Cowboys - 9

Oakland Raiders - 9

Tennessee Titans - 9

Buffalo Bills - 8

Carolina Panthers - 8

Cleveland Browns - 8

Detroit Lions - 8

Green Bay Packers - 8

New England Patriots - 8

St. Louis Rams - 8

Washington Redskins - 8

Arizona Cardinals - 7

Cincinnati Bengals - 7

Houston Texans - 7

Minnesota Vikings - 7

Philadelphia Eagles - 7

Chicago Bears - 6

New York Jets - 6

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - 6

Denver Broncos - 5

Pittsburgh Steelers - 3

Well, we have a number 1 ranking in something this year...

I appreciate what you're trying to do here, and how much time it took to do.

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Roster-moves-Giants-place-five-players-on-IR/b7d0e109-b720-4e38-b5ab-7a99215e389b

 

Geoff Schwartz, Adam Snyder, Mathias Kiwanuka, Robert Ayers, and Terrell Manning were placed on Injured Reserve


EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. – The Giants made several roster moves today as injuries continue to take their toll on the team.Five players were placed on injured reserve: offensive linemen Geoff Schwartz (ankle) and Adam Snyder (knee), defensive ends Mathias Kiwanuka (knee) and Robert Ayers (pectoral), and linebacker Terrell Manning (ankle).

That group increases the number of Giants players on injured reserve to 20, including rookie Bennett Jackson, who is on practice squad/injured list.

Although the Giants placed five players on I.R., they can replace only four on the roster, because Manning was signed last week from the Cincinnati Bengals’ practice squad. According to NFL rules, he cannot be replaced on the 53-man roster for three weeks after moving from a practice squad to the roster, even if he is placed on injured reserve.

The Giants added three players to their roster from the practice squad, guard Eric Herman, defensive tackle Dominique Hamilton and linebacker James Davidson.

The Giants also signed running back Chris Ogbonnaya, who has played in 51 regular-season games for St. Louis, Houston, Cleveland and Carolina with 12 starts. His career totals include 158 carries for 710 yards and two touchdowns. Ogbonnaya played in five games for the Panthers earlier this season and ran for 50 yards and a touchdown on 14 carries. He was released on Nov. 3.

Schwartz was one of the Giants’ major offseason acquisitions. But he missed the season’s first 10 games after dislocating his toe in a preseason game vs. the Jets on Aug. 22. Schwartz made his Giants’ debut at right tackle on Nov. 23 vs. Dallas. He suffered his season-ending injury in the first quarter of the Giants’ loss Sunday in Jacksonville.

Snyder, a 10-year veteran, joined the Giants on Sept. 3. He played in four games, including a start vs. the Cowboys last week. Snyder hurt his knee in that game and was replaced by Weston Richburg – whose place he had taken after the rookie started the first 10 games.

Kiwanuka, the 2006 first-round draft choice who is in his ninth Giants season, did not travel to Jacksonville because of his knee injury. He started the first 11 games this season and had 28 tackles (20 solo), 2.5 sacks and two fumble recoveries. His absence on Sunday ended his streak of 59 consecutive regular-season games played (plus four postseason games). In his career, Kiwanuka has played in 120 regular-season games with 82 starts. He has 38.5 career sacks, which place him eighth on the franchise’s career list.

Ayers was also signed as a free agent last offseason after spending five years with the Denver Broncos. He played in each of the first 12 games, including his first start in Jacksonville in place of Kiwanuka at left end. Ayers is tied with Jason Pierre-Paul for the team lead with five 5.0 sacks. Ayers suffered a torn pectoral muscle in the second half against the Jaguars.

Manning made his Giants’ debut on special teams in Jacksonville, though he was not credited with a tackle. He first signed with the Giants on June 16 and was waived on Aug. 30. Manning played three games early this season for the Chicago Bears.


Herman, 6-4 and 320 pounds, missed the first four games this season while serving a suspension for violating the league’s policy on performance enhancing substances. He was signed to the practice squad at the conclusion of the suspension. Herman was a seventh-round draft choice by the Giants in 2013. He spent the first 16 weeks of the season on the practice squad before joining the active roster on Christmas Day. He was inactive for the season finale vs. Washington.

Hamilton, 6-5 and 334 pounds, has been on the practice squad since Sept. 3. He entered the NFL as a rookie free agent with the Oakland Raiders in 2012. The Missouri product spent most of that season on Washington’s practice squad. In 2013, Hamilton was on the practice squads of both the Redskins and the Kansas City Chiefs. He played in all four of Kansas City’s preseason games before being waived on Aug. 30. Like Herman, he Hamilton has never played in a regular-season game.


Davidson, 6-3 and 242 pounds, was signed to the practice squad on Sept. 16. Davidson was originally signed by the Cincinnati Bengals as a free agent from Texas-El Paso. He was waived on Aug. 27.

• Defensive end/linebacker Paul Hazel was signed to the practice squad. Hazel, 6-5 and 238 pounds, played 13 games for the 2013 Cleveland Browns on special teams, including six in which he also played on defense. He had two special teams tackles. Hazel entered the NFL as a free agent with Jacksonville from Western Michigan. He joined the Browns after being waived by the Jaguars. Hazel was in training camp with the Houston Texans last summer.
  
• Defensive end Jordan Stanton, who was in training camp with the Giants and was briefly on the practice squad early in the season – his contract was terminated on Sept. 16 - was re-signed to the practice squad. Stanton played at James Madisoin.
  
• Also joining the practice squad is guard Rishaw Johnson, who played three games with one start last year for the Kansas City Chiefs. He has also spent time with Seattle, Tampa Bay, Dallas and Green Bay. Johnson played at California University of Pennsylvania.

 

Basically, with the exceptions of Jerry and Walton (yay!), our entire group of FA signings are now on IR. Oops, how could I forget DRC?

It doesn't get much worse than this.

 

 

Well I believe the Giants spotted Gilbride about 7 seasons at offensive coordinator...

 

Honestly I don't know how horrible he is when you look at what he has to work with and that equation changes weekly.

Yeah. And I wish this team was getting the same results as most of the time Gilly was being "spotted."

This offense has pretty much the same problems it had last year: weak line, injuries at running back, no help at tight end, and only one WR playing with any effectiveness.

Not really fair to judge an OC on that. But good enough to get a guy retired.

11 points given up and 7 sacks defends itself. Fewell has rolled out more than his share of shitty performances but this wasn't one of them.

We are talking about the Jaguars, here. I won't call them the worst team in the league, because at this point, we're right there in the running. But who on that offense scared you?

Yet when push came to shove, the defense wound up on their collective ass, again. It should never have gotten to that point, but it did. At the beginning of the season, I said that the defense would have to come through for this team to have even a chance--this was one of the moments I was talking about. That hasn't happened once this season. And it's happened precious few times in five freaking years!

If the defense had come through that one series, I would be saying that they saved the game for us. I'm in no way, shape, or form saying that the offense played well.

I'd take that line over this one in a second. All those guys except Allen were decent to good players.

That line put Collins on IR.

 

Sorry fish but that's just crazy. ANY team should be able to win if the D plays like ours did on Sunday, and regaining less than a FG lead with time on the clock is hardly putting us in a winning position. As Coughlin said, we would have had a better chance of winning if the offense had just taken knees the entire second half. They didn't just stink it up,they literally gave the game away.

Tree, in a bubble, you're right. As I said, the offense stunk up the field in the second half. I'm not faulting the defense for losing the big lead. That would be crazy.

But where has that one, crucial stop that has to be made been all season? Even when the offense, through some miracle of happenstance, gets us in a position where we have a shot to win, we give up a long drive, at best. Everytime I hear an announcer say "this is the game" and the defense is on the field, I know they'll lie down like dogs.

This isn't just this one game, this is a pattern that has been going on over multiple games, in multiple seasons.

you have to be perfect on every possession, tree

No, but coming through in turning points of a game a little more than never would be nice.

I swear, some of you guys could watch Fewell gnaw on the skull of a newborn on the sidelines, and find a way to defend him.

 

I agree....and in Rodgers, we're talking about the very best QB around today and one of the best I've ever seen. Now ask yourself how a more "human" QB would fare behind our OL and counting on our so-so receivers? Guys like Rivers, Big Ben, Cutler, Ryan, Stafford......they'd be like, "get me outta here"!

 

Not saying Eli hasn't had his bad moments/games but you can't look at his game in a vacuum. There are 10 other guys in the equation and too often that's forgotten, on this Board and other places.....and I give Eli A LOT of credit for not once, in all his years here, throwing a teammate or a unit (like the OL) under the bus.

People also forget that both Rivers and Roethlisberger walked onto teams which were very much run oriented. Pittsburgh had a great line, and San Diego had Tomlinson and Gates in their prime.

Niether of those guys would have gotten a Lombardi in 2011. Roethlisberger would be behind bars in any other town than Pittsburgh.

 

How do you remember all of this?

 

http://bit.ly/rNgkvh

A little of both--I mean, how the hell do you forget Ian Allen falling backwards on his ass before a play to get a false start penalty?

Anyone?... Anyone?...Please?

And I remember being upset that we let Chris Bober go, since he was the only lineman with any experience that played with even a little competence that year. Fortunately, the FO had better ideas.

Age is kind enough to let me forget the likes of Wayne Lucier or Brian Hatch.

Now that I'm in that groove, though, maybe there is hope for the line--because now I'm thinking how fucking bad Diehl looked in his rookie year (Richburg), and how he looked before he went to LT (Pugh).

The D gave up only 11 points and got 7 sacks. D was not the problem.

The D is as much a problem as any other part of this team--that's 2 consecutive games we had the lead before the opponent's last possession.

The offense did stink up the field in the second half, but they did regain the lead. And it doesn't excuse the defense for being completely unable to stop any offense from marching down the field.