fishgutmartyr

Is his footwork changing again?

You guys are taking that comment way too seriously.

Why not Guinta? He wanted the job in the past.

The secondary on the whole looked competent, all things considered. In fact, looking at all the injuries, they played very well.

He's familiar with the players and the coaches; so he would be able to jump in and keep who needs to be kept, ditch who needs to be ditched. He apparently knows how to develop players.

The only flaw I've seen are the miscommunications in the backfield, but is that scheme? If so, then that's out of his hands, and he might be able to create something that gets rid of the problem.

It's not as jarring a change (if Coughlin is in a "do it this year or you're done" situation), and Coughlin gets to save face by hiring one of "his" guys.

The only problem is we don't know how he'd call a game.

 

I love you man . Happy New Year.

You too, Nas.

Well in fairness that game was very one sided early, but yeah towards the end of the game the jags played much better and deserved the win.

Oh, I know that.

But the constant references to losing to the Jags as "the lowest point in many years" probably isn't getting him a Christmas card next year.

Before I forget, thanks for posting these, Tempest.

On the one hand, keeping Coughlin is ok with me. He has his flaws; but he never took a SB team, stink the field with it for 2 years and have the next coach get to the playoffs with the same group, either.

But defend Fewel and Quinn? Jesus. Saying Quinn had a better year than last year is technically true, but it's like saying horseshit is better than pigshit.

You can tell he's not just an owner, he's a fan.

You can also tell that he won't be getting any party invites from the Jacksonville owner anytime soon.

i'm not saying we'd do the same thing with gilbride, nas. i don't like the guy at all and i probably shat on him more than anybody on this board. i'm just trying to be fair when assessing whether changing to mcadoo is the biggest reason why we flipped it around. i took a lot of credit away from gilbride for 2011 in saying that nicks and cruz turned a lot of short passes into long touchdowns and it wouldn't be fair of me to not factor beckham into the mcadoo equation either

I can respect that.

Truth be told, though, so long as the offense improves, I couldn't give a shit how it happens. If it was fact that having a human sacrifice of Gilbride to the football gods would improve the offense, I'd hand the knife to the priest.

 

I don't think O and D rankings mean shit unless they're weighted against opponents' strength. We put up a lot of yards on some really bad D's down the stretch.

Dallas got to play us, Philly, and Washington 6 times. The Colts got to play Jacksonville, Tennesee, and Houston 6 times. Then got to play each other's divisions once.

Are those good offenses? Because they played very similar schedules to ours.

 

I pretty much agree with all of this. I might look at RT as well instead of Guard in the draft. I think if you draft a good RT it gives you some flexibility... you could move him inside if he can't beat out Pugh or needs time to develop, or you could move Pugh to Guard and keep the kid on the outside. Seeing Richburg have a tough time playing out of position this season makes me a little leery of this plan at the same time.

 

But man, would I love to see a Chris Snee type in the middle for the next 10 years. I think an idea situation would be to trade down to 15th or so, nab the best interior lineman we can, and possibly get an additional 2nd or 3rd to fortify the LB or TE spots.

I see the reasoning with RT, and it makes sense. But personally, I am sick to death of drafting tackles and trying to shoe-horn them along the line. Brewer, Mosely, McCants--didn't work--and now the middle of the line is its weakest point.

Meanwhile, when we did something crazy like draft guards as guards, Seubert and Snee--we were solid. I don't think Reese completely ignored the line--but he certainly ignored the middle of it--Petrus and Henderson are the only guards he's drafted that I even remember, and he drafted Henderson in the 7th round.

If we have to draft a "versatile" lineman, draft a guard that can play center. Please.

Why do we seem to live or die by the strength of the coordinators? Other teams live or die by their HC. Teflon Tom strikes again.

Because, just like every other team in the league, the HC doesn't drill down into every detail of a game plan. Not only would it be impossible for 1 person to try to run both sides of the ball, it would be ill-advised. At most, a HC will pick one side and run that, ala Fassel for a couple of years; usually the side he's most oriented towards. You try to do it any other way, and the life expectancy for head coaches would probably drop to their early 40's.

Do you think your guy, a former QB, was running the San Fran defense? Of course not, unless he was an idiot. He probably put in some broad strokes, and let Fangio work out the details. Naturally there's input, and there will be more than that during critical moments of the game--but the bulk of the game is called by the coordinator.

Coordinators are also typically the ones doing the hiring of position coaches, with the sign off of the head coach. That's almost a bigger deal than game-planning, because those coaches are the ones dealing with the players every day and preparing the players to execute game plans, they're the ones that are supposed to be doing the player development. Those are the coaches that should have been turned over long ago--and it's on the coordinators if they haven't.

Yes, a head coach has a lot of responsibility--as a generalist, in creating a culture, in creating an overall cohesion. The very fact we were in the last 5 games speaks to Coughlin's ability there. He does bear responsibilty for hiring and not firing the coordinators when it becomes necessary. But to blame Coughlin for some of the things he's getting blamed for would be like blaming the bugs in Yosemite on Paul Cook.

So long as Fewel goes, I don't care...

 

True....but I just don't trust Beason to stay healthy, so the cupboard may be equally bare at MLB......and they seem to like Behr. But your point is well taken. Both positions need to be addressed, either through a high draft pick or FA. The total absence of a running game prompts me to keep OL as #1 priority, though.

 

Interesting that you specify a Guard. This brings us to the annual question: are we OK going forward with Beatty and his big cap hit ($26M over next three years) or do we jump on the chance to get out from under that contract by making him a June 1 cut? I suppose getting him to extend/redo is another option (if he's amenable).

Well, sadly, we still don't know what we have with Schwartz. I like to think he'd be better than Jerry, and putting him next to Pugh might help at RT as well. Moving Richberg to his natural position could strengthen 2 positions, since Richberg isn't hitting any probowls at guard, and JD Walton shouldn't be starting.

Honestly, I don't follow why everyone is so freaked-out about Beatty's contract--if you look at it in comparison to other LT's in the league, it's just about average, which is the level of play we typically get from him. Yes, he was absolutely terrible in 2013, but he was ok in 2012, and again in 2014. The cap hit rises over the years, but so will the cap, and the younger players in the league will probably eclipse his contract.

http://overthecap.com/position/left-tackle/

Personally, if his level of play stays about the same, I'd consider dumping him after 2016. In 2017 there'd be considerable cap savings and only 2.5 million in dead money. Gives us time to draft a tackle a little further down the line, giving us extra draft picks right now for more urgent positions.

So, yeah, a guard.

Offense is ranked 10th total yards; 13th in total points.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2014&seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&role=TM&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG

Still a lot of work to do, and there's some consistency issues; but that is quite a job with the crap he's had to work with.

Not ready to put him on a pedestal, but credit where it's due.

Defense, you ask? The usual.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2014&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG

Yeah, I put LB a close second to OL on the list of needs. A safety would be 3rd.

I would put safety above the other two positions, simply because we at least have a couple of pieces in place on the starting LBs and OLine. If Rolle isn't re-signed, who do we have at safety?

Don't get me wrong--we definitely need another guard and a moment of prayer for a healthy Schwartz; and as far as backups the linebackers are a wasteland--but we're looking directly at a mediocre Stevie Brown, Taylor, and Behr. As potential starters.

This line could be very good if we had two guys who could run block. When we needed a yard on third and one, you knew you could get it behind Chris Snee. When this Giants team needs one, who do you turn to? I still think the line needs two players (maybe one could be Schwarz but I wouldn't trust him after being injured the entire year).

 

I keep saying we need two LBs but I think you can live with McClain and the kid we got. Beason is done and we really need somebody solid there.

 

As usual, it'll come down to injuries. As usual, I expect TC and crew will do nothing to address the league's worst conditioning staff.

To be fair, we didn't sign McClain to be MLB. I'll give him credit for stepping up into the position.

I'd be more than happy to scrap Williams, Paysinger, and Herzlich. I think 2 are free agents, so it's not like it'll cost.

I'd hate to be Reese--this reeks of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

JPP has talent, but how does it balance with inconsistent pass rushing; a nasty habit of collapsing into the middle of the line allowing outside runs; and a history of nagging injuries that are reminiscent of Tuck?

The "I was in the bathroom" comment after a loss bugs me, too. Probably more than it should, but still...

JPP's worth keeping to be sure--but it's really going to depend on the price, the direction the defense goes in the future, and how much Reese is willing to gamble that he's going to be more healthy than not.

I'd be very wary about how I structure a long contract with him.

While on the subject, what did you guys think of the oline yesterday? On the one hand, we can't run to save our lives. On the other, 53 passing attempts with no sacks--plenty of hurries, but what do you expect when you're one-dimensional? No way I want to keep the line as-is, but that is one weird stat.

I'd love to see Andre Williams actually have a hole to run through. He's got some heart. And it was nice to see him actually catch some passes.

For whatever reason, offense couldn't convert in the red zone this game, which was surprising.

Defense was just as frustrating as usual--sack on first down, give up 3rd and long anyway. We score, they give up points. SOP. We blew this game on multiple levels, but hoping we could pull it out of our ass with a last minute TD and 2-pointer was a bit much. Looking forward to the Fewell years being a bad memory. Bottom line: the defense should have done better this year than it showed, injuries be damned.

I really don't think the defense is as untalented as people think--it's got weak spots, but assuming we actually get Beason to stay on the field next year, we have some decent starters at LB, we have some very good CBs (Prince and DRC are damn good--between McBride, Chykie Brown, and Thurmond there's some decent backup next year), and some respectable defensive linemen. Safety is a big question mark with Rolle, and with both Behre and Cooper Taylor winding up injured. Who knows what happens with JPP.

I know I'm naming names that are going FA next season, but I don't think Thurmond or Brown are going to be expensive at all next year. Rolle is kidding himself if he thinks he's getting 9 million from anyone next year.

We took leads/tied games in the 4th quarter a couple times this season. Apparently, the only way the defense can hold it is to not see the field afterwards.

But this offense does need some more work.

We ARE in the middle of blowing things up--look at the 2011-2012 roster, and count the missing bodies. Both lines are being reworked, we actually have NFL competent starters at LB (if Beason gets and stays healthy--and we don't have any quality in backups, but we're better off than we have been), and a lot of big contracts were dumped last year, with more to come this year. We still have a way to go, but we're getting there. Jennings is a plus if he can stay on the field, Williams is ok, and Darkwa looked like he had potential.

So I'm not sure what your definition of blowing up a team actually is.

I think he's dreamy

Penalty after a touchdown catch. Bust.

Fuck Fisher. I'll admit I got a chuckle out of the Washington coin toss--because Snyder is an even bigger dickhole, but that doesn't make Fisher any less a douchebag.

I just couldn't root for that guy to win without taking a shower afterwards.

McAdoo had a good game today--let's hope that becomes more the rule than the exception going forward.

 

5th in offense in 2010, top 10 2008, 2009, 2014. McAdoo is doing a better job with essentially the same problems, lack of a running game and an ineffective offensive line.

 

It really is impossible to say how much better things would be if we kept Gilbride and he had the opportunity to work with Beckham. I think if Gilbride was still running the offense, Manning would be on IR and we would still have a losing season record.

I assume you meant to type 2011.

In the same paragraph, you say it's impossible to tell how things would be if we kept Gilbride, then go ahead and trash him anyway. Sounds reasonable.

This is year one for Eli in this offense, and he is on pace to surpass or equal most of the average offensive seasons under Gilbride. One would think next year there will marked improvement as Eli and most of the other players will not only be familiar with the offense, but have all of these game reps going into the season. In light of these facts, it is premature to really judge McAdoo's offense next to Silly Gilly as this is not an apples to apples comparison, except to say that it's been a modest improvement, which is somewhat encouraging for a first year offense.

I'm sorry, but outside of Beckham, I'm just not seeing this vast improvement. The line, while marginally improved, still is terrible in the heart of the pocket, the running game is only as good as Jenning's ankles, and we might be getting slightly better play from the TEs. To his credit, McAdoo's offense does seem to be better in the red zone--but we've lost a lot of the big play offense we used to have.

As far as interceptions are concerned, how many times were we blown out this year, where desperation passes weren't even attempted?

 

Agreed.

 

Also, I don't think people question Gilly's scheme as much as his complete inability to adapt his scheme in his last few years. By week 5 last year it was obvious Brandon Myers couldn't block, Will Beatty needed some help, and the offense could benefit from a quick passing game. Why we hadn't seen adjustments in those areas by week 11 was maddening.

This year, we've marginally improved the line. (Richberg, Walton and Jerry might not strike fear, but they're better than any of the crap we put on the field last year.) We scrapped the scheme, and put in one that's supposed to be short count/quick routes. We aren't getting significantly better results, you've said so yourself.

So similar results (and I'm assuming we get to 6-10 at least, which isn't a given) with new players and an offseason to study and prepare with a scheme specifically designed to alleviate the pressure on the oline. What do you think Gilbride could have done last year midseason that would have had any significant effect, based on the results we've gotten this year?

Again, I'm not trashing McAdoo--I hope he has a nice, long, successful stint here. I'm not even criticizing the job he's done so far. I just don't see the basis for praising him yet.

 

Uh... who is asking Eli to win games with his feet?

Nobody except for the offensive line.

 

Really? Cruz seemed to do fine in his rookie season; well second full time season. Nicks didn't take three years either. Comparing Randle or Barden or Moss to real WR is not going to work. Randle isn't doing much better this year either.

 

As Fish stated, I’ll buy into the McAdoo hype when he produces past Gilbride. So far not very promising. This season would have been ugly without Beckham.

The funny thing is, I never said he was bad--just that even with new concepts and philosophies, he's having as much difficulty as the previous guy dealing with the same problems.

Hopefully, with a decent line and a 2nd healthy WR, he'll do ok.