Zelmo

Ok look, let's settle this... the Cruz, back-breaking INT was a fluke play. You can't criticize Cruz for trying to bring it in, he's trying to make a play and it's understandable. You can't fault Manning on the pass because had Cruz not slipped, that ball is a perfect throw. I watched it a couple of times and it was a timing play, Eli was already in his throwing motion as Cruz turned to make the break inside. And it's not an INT unless Cruz tips it up, and another Seahawks DB tips it. It's just a fluke play. If anything, Cruz needs better spikes so he doesn't slip, blame it on that.

 

The last INT was irrelevant. The game was over when Browner took it back for 6. You have Boothe snapping the ball at Eli's feet earlier, and a fumble by Cruz earlier.

 

One of the worst passes of the game for Manning was the TD pass to Cruz. The INT by Earl Thomas was equally bad. But other than those two throws, I thought Eli played well. But we are making mistakes up front that is costing this team dearly. Bad snaps, missed blocks, and penalties, these are the reasons the offense is not as good as it should.

Jim I kept trying to say exactly this

Good post

-Z

I also think Fox had his mike turned up more this game, so you heard the dreaded "Omaha" more but it's always there.

It's just Eli's version of Blue 180...

But your point still remains...Eli plays better when things are simpler

-Z

At the risk of starting another fight and/or reinfuriating Storm, I just wanna point out that if you take away Eli's garbage time pick, his QB rating for today's game would have been 102.5...with that last pick it went down to 91.82

But I agree with you Sephiroth, though Eli seems to be good at making those pre-snap adjustments, at the end of the day he performs better after the snap without all of it...and after the snap is all that counts.

-Z

There's a lot of truth in that statement, Z. It's the bend don't break philosophy, and it's weak. It's basically hoping that they will mis-execute along the way, and the defense will capitalize with a pick or fumble recovery. The great defenses in the NFL FORCE those mistakes with aggression, not passively waiting for it to happen for them.

It's funny you bring up "bend but don't break"...I don't remember when but at some point in this game I was thinking of posting on here that the Giants this year seem to have this rumored-to-exist "bend but don't break" defense and how "bend but don't break" is a ridiculous concept.

If I'm just being ignorant of some brilliant defensive strategy then please someone enlighten me, but no team in the freaking world comes to play that day saying ok we're gonna give up a lot of yards but we're gonna buckle down when it counts and not let them score. "Bend but don't break" is a cute analyst fabrication to post facto describe defenses that for whatever reasons give up a lot of yards and not as many points. It is not an actual strategy to head into games with.

There is a concept when you're facing teams with big play capability to take away the big plays and leave yourself more vulnerable to the short stuff, but that's not what's going on here.

-Z

He threw it before he made his break. Ya know, timing...then he slipped...completely catchable ball.

From watching the game broadcast I'm with you...I thought Manning threw the ball to the right spot had Cruz not slipped...and I thought Cruz made a good effort to get a hand on it but that it wasn't one of those balls that he "should've caught". I wanna see another angle.

It's ironic that if Cruz doesn't make the effort to catch that ball it most probably falls incomplete.

-Z

You cant allow Charlie Whitehurst to lead an 80 yard drive for the go ahead td. You just cant. They don''t stop the run now either which used to at least be one of the stronger aspects of this team.

Well see Fewell's defense is built on letting the opposing team march down the field, AND THEN stopping them. So everything on that drive was actually going exactly as Fewell had foreseen, they just got knocked off their gameplan at the stopping them part by the weird Osi offsides play. Nothing to see here folks.

-Z

Normally, I would agree, but I was shocked Eli didn't sense the pressure on that one. He could have stepped up and been fine, IMO.

 

And still, 3 turnovers is 3 to many, in my book. Especially since the Nicks pick and the Cruz pick, IMO, were forced, inaccurate throws....if he hits Cruz on the numbers we probably aren't having this discussion.....

I hear...the Nicks throw was terrible....the Cruz throw I wanna see a better angle on.....on sacks and fumbles game rewind usually has the "coaches cam" where you can see the whole field...I wanna see where Eli was in his decision making/motion as Cruz was recovering from his slip...

-Z

He has consistently whiffed on his blocks. I know the OLine hasn't played well but Hynoski hasn't been helping.

Yeah but his nickname is cool so he's off limits to criticism.

-Z

Storm your starkly different view is making me plan to rewatch this game on GameRewind with a particular eye to Manning.

-Z

I think "I have to play better" is the one it should be on.

Not 4 turnovers?

-Z

Ok, so one fumble in OUR red zone. One ill advised interception on our side of the field. And one ill advised interception in THEIR red zone.

 

Yes, he played consistent, got the offense in a rhythm all game, he was accurate with the ball, and when it mattered most he protected the ball.

 

This is completely stupid, bro, just so you know. You're normally a really intelligent Giants poster.

I appreciate the compliment...and I respect you too...I think there's just a combination of factors that are making me view his performance different than you.

- In general, when QB's get stripped I don't usually view it as the QB turning the ball over. I view it more like the pass protection turned the ball over/the defense made a nice play. That's just my own personal thing. I know I feel that way when Osi or someone on our team strips an opposing QB...I don't think wow that guy sucks I think nice play Osi with the strip. Obviously there are plays that are the QB's fault, but many time's it's not. QB's a position where you're expected to stand in there in pressure, keep your eyes downfield, and make a throw, and you need to rely heavily on the guys around you keeping you safe. Again obviously there are times when the QB doesn't handle his pocket positioning right, but on a whole I tend not to view QB's getting stripped as their own personal turnover.

That being said, heading into the Cruz INT, realize that to me, at that point Manning had turned the ball over once. Obviously you can argue with this but I personally didn't view the Cruz INT as being Manning's fault or a bad throw or decision, and the garbage time INT (there were 26 seconds left), for sure didn't register to me in rating his performance.

Hence I was taken aback when his game as a whole was getting the "4 turnovers" label.

-Z

I'm done with this, if you don't see how 4 turnovers by your quarter back is poor QB play, me explaining it to you isn't helping.

You're really not being logical...when his stat sheet says 3 TD's you're quick to point out how one was a bad decision....but you refuse to acknowledge that it works the other way as well...for God sake one of the turnovers was in garbage time...if that's not being disingenuous with stats I don't know what is...Just because the stat sheet says 4 turnovers really doesn't tell the story...

Pretend you're the coach...do you think Coughlin is on Manning after the game for the Cruz INT or his INT in garbage time???

-Z

How? Because he got lucky and hit on a 60+ yard TD pass? Please dude. "Bottom line stats" work both ways. A very Romo-esque game from Manning.

I'm fine with taking away that TD in the genuine analysis of his play. In my post I said that was one of his bad decisions.

How in the world was this performance Romo-esque? He didn't choke nor was it his fault we lost. In fact, his passing attack was one of the only bright spots the entire game and he was this close to leading us to another comeback win. Victor Cruz doesn't lose his footing and we very likely put that ball in the endzone in a play or two.

My post praising Manning's play didn't mention his stats at all. It was about his actual QB performance, which was perfectly fine.

-Z

What are you talking about? Manning, despite what you say, turned the ball over 4 times. If he showed up every Sunday like that, we'd lose EVERY game and dog would be here the second every Giant s game.

There's no such thing as a bottom line stat....even you must admit saying "Eli turned the ball over four times", while statistically true, is a GROSS misrepresentation of his performance. It just is.

-Z

JPP looks dangerous, and I really think Lindval Joseph is getting better every game. Also Corey Webster did well against Sidney Rice and overall he's done well this season. As I said earlier, Kenny Phillips is starting to look like another Shaun Williams, always seems like he's late to the play and that late hit was fucking ridiculous. I'd rather see Deon Grant in there. D'quan Williams looks like he's a player also.

Phillips played really well the first three games.

-Z

I love watching this guy play. He has definitely earned the starting TE position. He's done more in the first 5 games for the Giants than Beckum has done in two full years in the NFL (Beckum: 171 total yards / 2 TDs) and Beckum can't block. I see Eli throwing to Ballard more and more in the future cuz he catches the damn ball!

Must your bring up Beckum??

They should really and truly cut him right now. He's just an awful awful player. Just awful. You can feel the life getting sucked out of a play when it involves him.

I don't care who they fill the spot with, but Beckum is useless.

-Z

I miss spags

+10

Seriously

-Z

No, I think Eli's had a much better start to the season this year than last. But that won't stop Dog.

Oh almost nothing will stop the dog at this point after years of inconsistency by Eli. My point was more that if the Eli of today was what Eli would have been bringing to the table every Sunday all these years, the dog would never have gotten on his case to begin with.

-Z

I think "great" is a bit heavy. He was fine, but he also clearly overthrew Manningham when he had gotten behind the Hawks defence and was wide open. Plus he was staring Nicks on that INT, it's something he can't seem to stop doing.

Ok maybe I overdid it in response to Storm bashing him. But bottom line is if the Eli of today would show up every Sunday, let's just say the dog wouldn't have what to post about.

-Z

"Pretty" stats, but absolutely no substance to that start by Manning. Not even close to having a pretty good game.

I think you're hating on Manning way too much, he had an excellent game. Made bad decisions on the Cruz TD and the Nicks INT. That's it. The other Cruz pick and the interception on the final drive were respectively, not his fault, and irrelevant.

He was accurate, moved well in the pocket, stepped up into throws, avoided pressure, threw some balls away when necessary. Manning had a great game.

-Z

The ball wasn't behind him at all it was actually out in front of him leading to the end zone...it was a little too out in front because the timing was thrown off because Cruz slipped...not really anyone to blame on that play imo just unfortunate that Cruz wasn't able to make the play.

Link

-Z

Is it me or did the defense just look very slow in space today? Slow to shed blocks, slow to the ballcarrier etc Actual tackling wasn't that bad imo but we just weren't in position.

-Z

Wait until we start playing good teams. Its going to get a lot uglier if the lethargic play and overall ineptitude continue.

But that's the irony of it. They'll probably come out with more intensity against the better teams.

I'm not sold on Cruz until he settles himself down. I've been searching for a word for him...I don't know ...he's too flappy or something...

We all knew from the beginning, just by how he runs with the ball, that he was gonna put the ball on the ground this year.

It's a shame, because he's turning out to be a big playmaker.

-Z

I love this guy...he blocks well, he's dependable, he seems to catch everything you throw his way, but I gotta ask, how the heck does he get open? I mean he might be the slowest tight end catching passes downfield I have ever seen. He's slow like molasses, doesn't run any real nice routes, he just kinda chugs downfield in a slightly slanted line and then catches the ball when thrown to.

Incredible. I'll take it, I'll definitely take it, but I don't really get it.

-Z

We just might get to see Da'Rel in limited action and a lot more of DJ Ware. I think Gilbride is going to air the ball out more than usual this sunday.

Gilbride finally started airing it out at the end of the Cardinals game. As the offensive line continues to improve in pass protection teams are gonna have a hard time loading the box against the run, becuase we can do damage through the air.

-Z