HOUND

McCargo's stock is inflated due to the amazing talent that bookended him at NC State. I hate the thought of paying a heavy price for him. If we're talking run stuffers, then I'd add Babatunde Oshinowo of Stanford to the mix. He's more of a nosetackle type but is a big body that will pay nice dividends in the run game. I tend to think 2nd round is a bit early for him but that being said I still don't think he'd dissapoint, although he's a better fit for a 3-4. I could care less what NFL draftcountdown's mock says. It's a mock. There's no guarantee on anything it's predicting. I tend to agree that I included some longshots in my player pool but every year unexpected guys fall. I bet there are names out there that we'll be able to choose from that nobody has even considered. Happens every year. I think Hodge brings more to the table than Alston. I agree we have a greater depth need on the outside but we also need a backup to Pierce. Hodge would fill that role nicely.

You're kidding right? How is Reggie Bush a lock? Nobody's a lock. I hardly believe there's any guarantee that Reggie will outshine Eli. And looking at it from a positional standpoint, I'd much rather take a gamble for a franchise QB than a franchise RB if I were to trade up. I'm not down on Reggie but to simply say he's already an automatic for the Hall of Fame is a bit much, no? I also think the durability question can be raised about the guy. He's never been asked to run the ball 25 times a game on a consistent basis. Can he hold up to the beating a RB takes in the NFL while logging 300 carries in a season? Nobody knows.

I don't think this is a case of staying put and taking someone else. The Texans would HAVE to trade down if they didn't want Bush. I'd tend to agree that the Jets seem like the most likely candidate to trade up. Minnesota is another team I could see trading up as the yhave an extra 2nd round pick but I can't see them getting the top spot. Besides if they were moving up they'd likely target a QB, not Bush. The Raiders are always a candidate to do something foolish but again, I don't see them moving up for Reggie. This is an odd year. I think the top spots in the draft could be obtained for cheaper prices than we've seen in the past. New Orleans may like it's choices but it doesn't want to pay 2nd pick money. If both they and the Texans are looking at moving back, a team looking to move up could play Houston and New Orleans off each other. It seems like a buyers market right now.

Of the players you listed, the only one's I'm interested in in round 2 are Bing and Colledge. I don't dislike Demetrius Williams but I don't think we need to go WR in round 2 and I also think he might be available in round three. If not a similar talent, like Martin Nance or a boom/bust guy like Brandon Marshall are options in round 3. As for round 2 I've got my eye on: CB Kelly Jennings CB Jonathan Joseph CB Richard Marshall S Daniel Bullocks S Ko Simpson OT Jonathan Scott LB Abdul Hodge DT Rod Wright - yeah the bust factor is high but so is the potential. This guy was likely the top rated DT going into his senior season. He'll need some coaching but he could pay big dividends at a need position for us. I don't expect a few of these guys to be available when we pick but every year there are guys who slip into the picture that you never expect. I don't feel that any of the players listed have no chance at being there at 56.

This article on NFL.com details the growing indicators that Bush may not wind up a Texan. Adam Schefter It boils down to a couple of things - The Texans have had no contract talks with Reggie Bush yet they have spoken to DE Mario Williams about a contract. People in the Bush camp readliy admit that they don't get the feeling Houston will select him. Most of the time trade rumors usually have an agenda attached to them but in this case, there really isn't a reason for those who shared information to benefit from it. In other words, these rumors shouldn't be quickly dismissed since the sources have no reason to speculate falsely.

I'd love to see us take Ryans. I prefer him over Carpenter. I really don't think Greenway will fall all the way to 25 but if he did it would be a real tough call between the two. Greenway is the higher rated prospect and deserves to be but Ryans may actually be a better fit for our team. I wouldn't be disappointed with either pick. I won't be upset if we get Carpenter either unless we take him over Ryans or Greenway. As for most mocks having us taking Ryans .... loot at that date of this thread: Hound pats his back!

I went back and forth on who I liked better Youboty or Williams but Williams off and on focus scared me off a bit. I agree that there likely isn't any one area where Youboty ranks tops in this class but I don't think that's necessarily a damnation of his skills. He really seems pretty solid acorss the board. I'll also agree that Youboty maybe more than any other corner has the widest range of reviews from the critics. That alone should likely scare me more but I guess I'm on the side of the fence that endorses him. Tye Hill is the guy I steer clear of. You need more than just speed to play corner in the NFL and I'm not sure Hill has it.

I think it's premature to assume failure of this project just because you have a small number of lists to date. The draft isn't even resuming until tomorrow. There's plenty of time for people to submit picks.

I think Gil Brandt is about as good as a rotting turnip when it comes to assessing football talent. He's an old man. I did a cornerback ranking thread on the Giants page here Needless to say, I think he's got Tye Hill overrated and Ashton Youboty underrated. Michael Huff doesn't even belong in the article as he'll be playing safety in the NFL.

Davis is an impressive propect but I'll be shocked if he goes in the draft's first five picks.

Can any player taken during the draft's second day ever be considered a "huge bust"? I tend to agree that Moore will never be a contributor.

You could also argue the offenses are scaled back too. It's not like they can put in real complex stuff when they've got 30 guys who have never worked together and less than two weeks of practice. I do think players can make a name for themselves in the practices too but neither side has a major advantage on game day.

I'm in for a 4th round. I pick at the top of the 3rd and there are easily 3-4 players that I simply can't make up my mind on. Although given how good I'm doing at this I understand if the rest of you want to stop after 3 rounds

This wasn't THAT bad of a draft for the Giants. We all know what Bavaro did. But Stacy Robinson started for a stretch. He wans't anything special but he contributed. Lee Rouson was much better than Adams. Adams was slower than Dayne. Herb Welch won a Super Bowl ring with the G-Men if I'm not mistaken.

I don't question that Bloom is committed to football but I still don't think I'd draft him. The best contribution any team will get from his initially is in the return game and I'd rather Chad MNorton in that capacity than a rookie. I really don't see Bloom carving out much of a football career. Who know's maybe he can be the next Tim Dwight, but that's hardly earthshattering ... and he doesn't have Dwight's wheels.

I agree, Wimbley's stock has definitely risen. I've gotta agree that he really shouldn't be taken by a team that doesn't plan to employ a 3-4. I'd also say he's a bit overrated at this point. Seems like a 2nd rounder to me.

The games I saw Williams in were primarily in the early part of the season. In those contests he looked every bit as good as his reputation. I will agree that in today's NFL I would be nervous taking a high round pick on player who might lack intelligence. Williams doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed. I really think today's game has become so complex, especially at certain positions that it takes more than just athletic ability. Although in Williams defense his football IQ was strong enbough to play two positions in college so maybe I'm being a bit harsh on him. I still beleive, due to his extensive playing time, that he's in the best position to contribute immediately. As for Hill, well, there's no way all of these guys fulfill their potential. From what I've seen of Hill, he just seems more athlete than football player.

Excellent avatar! :worshippy:

One possible silver lining to Defensive Tackle issue is that we feasibly could get away with a 3rd round or later selection due to the fact that we frequently rotate our Tackles anyway. We likely aren't going to get an everydown DT in this draft unless we trade up which I don't think is a good idea. However we may be able to snare a guy who will add quality depth and flash playmaking ability. Think of how a guy like Sam Rayburn was effectively used in spot duty by the Eagles.

I made reference in another thread to the deep talent pool available at cornerback in this draft. However every prospect seems to come with risk attached too. There are no slam dunks. There's been a lot of talk about corners on this board as several mocks have had us taking a CB. Several posters have also expressed a desire to nab one on the first day. Here's my observations of the top prospects in the draft based on scouting reports: In no particular order: Jimmy Williams - Senior CB who got extensive playing time at Virginia Tech. Even spent some playing time in his sophomore year at Free Safety. Some Scouts feel he's better suited at that position but with his fine size and speed (6'2", 210 lbs.) the team drafting him is almost obligated to at least first try him on the island. Williams has proven himself adept at man and zone coverage. He's solid in run support, showing a knack to shed blockers and fill holes. He plays as physical as his size and delivers strong hits in both the run and pass game. He's got fine closing speed which helps him recover. He flashed his all around game last season when he held future blue chip WR Calvin Johnson of Georgia Tech to just one catch. He gets a solid jam at the LOS and uses his hands exceedingly well in that capacity. He shows all the skills necessary to excel in bump and run. He needs better discipline. He got kicked out of the ACC Championship game. He's also shown signs of immaturity to the dismay of his Coaches. Coaches have criticized him for freelancing at times. He's shown a tendency to play up and down to the level of competition. He needs to improve his read and react skill in zone coverage. He's sometimes late to make his break. He's slightly stiff in the hips, which reduces his speed coming out of breaks. Ashton Youboty - Junior CB who started his final 2 seasons for the Buckeyes. Excellent size/speed ratio (6', 190 lbs. 4.45 forty). Has improved his football intelligence as he's gained experience. Teams threw away from his frequently during his final season. Plays a solid bump and run which goes along with his fine physical game. Very good in run support as well as open field tackling. Matches up better with big receivers where his size and strength grade out well. Excellent jump ball skills. Has displayed good soft hands. Had an interception, 4 PBU's and 3 tackles as a sophomore against Braylon Edwards in a big win over Michigan. Michigan game elevated his stock but may have inflated his ego. Showed poor technique in the games following it and overreacted frequently to pump fakes. Also struggled a bit with smaller receivers. He was a bit erratic at times in '05 and bounced back and forth between fine execution and giving up big plays. Antonio Cromartie - Rare movement skills for a 6'2" corner. Performs agility drills better than 180 lb speedsters (Cromartie is 205 lbs.). Can match up with any receiver in the game. Hip flexibility is incredible for a player of his size. Terrific technique throughout his backpedal, turn, and pursuit. Anticipates well. Amazing ball skills. Frank Coyle has him rated, not just as the best corner in the draft, but the best Defensive Back overall, ahead of Texas's Michael Huff. Coyle also called him the best cover corner to come out of FSU since Deion Sanders and the best prospect at the position in the last 2 decades! Coyle admittedly has him ranked higher than most draftniks but says he's got tremendous upside and the potential to be the best cornerback in the game. Easily a top 10 prospect! Everybody is aware that Cromartie is coming off a knee injury that derailed his Junior season. Guess how many starts he's had for the Seminoles vaunted defense? 1 ... that's right ... 1 total start in his college career. Talk about your risk/reward pick! Cromartie could still stand some improvement in many aspects of zone coverage. He's awfully raw which is to be expected due to the diminished playing time. He's not as alert and instinctive in recognizing routes and his decision making could be better. He's not a physical player and similar to Deion, he's a drag down tackler, not a hitter. Tye Hill - Blazing speed is the hallmark of his game. He was a two sport All-American in both football and track. His sprinter's speed allows him to stick with receivers in the deep game and close quickly on balls in the air. His instincts are adequate. He's got good flex in his hips allowing him to turn and stick with wideouts. Despite his size (5'10", 185 lbs.) he's durable and isn't afraid to help in run support. His backpedal needs work. He tends to bail way too frequently. He needs to demonstrate more consistency in run support, especially at the LOS. He tends to arm tackle and is shed far too easily. Despite excellent PBU number's he's got alarmingly bad hands. He only totaled 5 interceptions in his college career. He's much better in man coverage and needs refinement in zone. He tends to rely too much on his speed and seems delayed in his reads. Kelly Jennings - Average size with excellent speed (5'11", 175 lbs., 4.45 forty). Has the ability to contribute early in his career. Well rounded skill set with few glaring weaknesses. Very flexible hips and excellent agility. Top line change of direction skills make him a terror in man coverage. Has the best footwork of any corner in the class. Breaks quickly on the ball in the air. Graded out high versus top competition. Quick low backpedal that allows him to plant and drive with no loss of speed and solid drive. Reads routes well and rarely gets caught gambling. Quick study and a high character player, something not always attributed to Hurricanes players. Reliable hands. Not as physical as you'd like in his jam, press and run support. Is not a big hitter and doesn't seek contact. Needs to improve his physical play. Far too many tackle attempts are the leg cut variety. Failed to finish Senior Bowl week with tight hamstring. Hammy problem flared up again at the combine. Although Jennings posted solid numbers at Miami's Pro Day. Jonathan Joseph - Athletic Junior coming off a short stay in the SEC. Graded out well against fine talent in the conference. Explosive speed (4.4) as well as fine size - 5'11", 195 lbs. Very smooth backpedal. Fluid in his turns. Good speed coming out of transition. Has demonstrated the ability to stick with the receiver throughout the route. Covers the deep route well and is adept at reacting to the ball in flight. Excellent recovery time combined with outstanding range. Soft hands and a proven interceptor. Ranked as one of the top JUCO players in the nation before transferring to South Carolina. Has as much upside as any prospect at the position with the triangle numbers to match. Played in just 14 games at the D-1 level. Has a tendency to get overaggressive and try to make the big play. One scout termed him "reckless". He is aware and closes quickly in zone coverage but has limited experience in the scheme and will likely face a steep learning curve in the pros. Here's how I see them in the following categories: Coverage Abilities: Best - Cromartie, Worst - Hill Run Support: Best - Jimmy Williams, Worst - Cromartie Playmaking Skills: Best - Cromartie, Worst - Hill Speed: Best - Hill, Worst - Williams Intangibles - Jennings Ability to Perform Immediately: Best - Williams, Worst - Joseph. How Do I rank em? 1. Cromartie - I'm not nearly as sold on him as Coyle but even if he's 75% of the player he predicts, the team drafting him will have struck gold. I don't think you can say things like Best CB prospect of the past 2 decades when the guy has just one start but you can't ignore the tremendous athletic ability in the larger physical package. 2. Ashton Youboty - He didn't get a BEST ranking in any category for me but he's consistently solid across the board. His biggest weakness at this point might be the lack of a senior season. He's shown that there really isn't anything he can't do, it's just now a case of doing everything more consistently. Playing time realistically should cure all his warts. 3. Jimmy Williams - I'm banking on him maturing and fulfilling his potential. Unlike Cromartie and his injury and Youboty's youth, Williams biggest risk seems to be his brain. If he can concentrate on his game and he gets the backing of an astute coaching staff he'll make a team very happy. 4. Jonathan Joseph - Patience is the key. You can't expect Joseph to come in and instantly perform as a shutdown corner. Be prepared for a season's worth of mistakes before he realizes his potential. However, once he's cut his teeth he may end up as the best of the group. 5. Kelly Jennings - I love the intangibles. He's an easy guy to root for. However his small frame (175 lbs. ) makes him a major injury threat. He hasn't been asked to put on weight which he'll need to do at the next level to remain healthy. Can he retain his speed and agility with added muscle? It remains to be seen. I just think he's an awfully big risk in the first 75 picks. 6. Tye Hill - One of these cornerbacks has to be a bust right? My money's on Hill. Everything I've seen and read leads me to the conclusion that he's a track star playing football. Speed does kill and it also shows up every Sunday. But without proper technique even the most athletic prospect will flounder. Hill has already shown he'll never be a physical tackler. He's also displayed shockingly bad hands. If he can't tackle and he can't intercept, all that's left is coverage ability and there's more to that than simple speed. Hill is my player to avoid.

I never said it was a bad pick. I made a witty remark about the bongblower you added to your franchise. If you want to get defensive about it, that's up to you. Methinks if you're going to draft a pothead, you better be prepared to answer tougher questions than my silly comments For example, since you identified the obvious need the Browns have for a top notch interior lineman on defense, why would you pass over arguably the best prospect in the draft at that position in round 1? I'm not down on Manny Lawson but if I'm Cleveland and I can choose between DT Haloti Ngata and LB D'qwell Jackson or DT Claude Mariwroten and LB Manny Lawson ... well, I know which way I'm going there.

From what I've read on Hill's subpar Senior Bowl performance, it was his reads that got him in trouble, not his lack of athleticism. He apparently tried to jump a couple of routes and simply guessed wrong. Maybe it was a case of a player being too aggressive trying to make a big play on the big stage. All reports seem to indicate that he had a solid week of practices in Mobile so it's not like he was in over his head. Like I said, I don't think anybody questions his skill set, but if he has the cranial capacities of a Frank Walker then it might not matter!

At least he mentioned the need at OT. I'm simply amazed at all the chatter I keep hearing about how we must find a guy to replace Toomer yet nobody mentions Luke. We're presently deeper at WR then we are at Tackle. Luke's cap hit next year is simply too big to swallow. We REALLY need to find a possible replacement in this draft. I rate Left Tackle as a far greater need than WR or RB on offense. As much as I agree that we need to add a Defensive Tackle it just seems as though the guys projected to be available at our slots seem like reaches, the better prospects figure to be taken when we pick. For as well as linebacker and corner are predicted to look for us in this draft, Defensive Tackle isn't doing us any favors.

Can't believe how far D'qwell Jackson fell. Nice value there. Can't believe Money thought Pizan could handle running this thing. Can't believe how good of a draft the Packers are having so far. Can't believe it's not butter.

Smoke 'em if you got 'em!