xxi-xxv Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have been reading and hearing about what a great off season Mr. Minaya has had do to his fixing of the bullpen, on paper anyway and I have to laugh because basically it was the Mets ability to take on a contract of one player that many teams did not want to pay and of course outspend the competition for this off seasons best closer available(much like he did in 2005 for Wagner). Anyway why do I find this funny? Well, for all the great accolades that are given to Minaya for these moves remember one thing. It was 2 off seasons ago that he traded 2 guys in Heath Bell and Matt Lidstrom for nothing. Two guys who are exactly what Putz and Rodriguez are(not as proven I know)but hard throwing right handed closers. Are they as good as the current two? Obviously not. But they also cost a fraction of the other two. So here is the question to ask yourself, would the Mets be better suited with the current situation they have or be better off with Bell and Lidstrom and say another 19 million in salary room to get another hitter that this lineup so desperately needs? Could they say have gone and gotten that guy Ramirez from the Dodgers, you know the dude who played for the Red Sox? Would they be better with that Manny guy, Belll and Lidstrom or what they have now? Curious as to what your opinions are? Do you also believe Minaya has to take a hit for letting 2 guys like that get away and getting garbage in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meetdamets Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have been reading and hearing about what a great off season Mr. Minaya has had do to his fixing of the bullpen, on paper anyway and I have to laugh because basically it was the Mets ability to take on a contract of one player that many teams did not want to pay and of course outspend the competition for this off seasons best closer available(much like he did in 2005 for Wagner). Anyway why do I find this funny? Well, for all the great accolades that are given to Minaya for these moves remember one thing. It was 2 off seasons ago that he traded 2 guys in Heath Bell and Matt Lidstrom for nothing. Two guys who are exactly what Putz and Rodriguez are(not as proven I know)but hard throwing right handed closers. Are they as good as the current two? Obviously not. But they also cost a fraction of the other two. So here is the question to ask yourself, would the Mets be better suited with the current situation they have or be better off with Bell and Lidstrom and say another 19 million in salary room to get another hitter that this lineup so desperately needs? Could they say have gone and gotten that guy Ramirez from the Dodgers, you know the dude who played for the Red Sox? Would they be better with that Manny guy, Belll and Lidstrom or what they have now? Curious as to what your opinions are? Do you also believe Minaya has to take a hit for letting 2 guys like that get away and getting garbage in return? LMAO i find this kinda funny......Heath Bell is straight GAAAABAHge when he pitched for us all i remember him doing is giving up late inning bombs.... He hated NY and everything about our team.When he was traded he said his greatest moment as a met was when they traded him hes a scumbag......and another thing WHY OHHHH WHY are you sooo fixated with adding another bat let alone that ASShole non hustling team wrecker like MAnny......yes i understand our team is loaded with lefties but it could be a whole lot worse...Im confident with the linup we have we got alot of young guys that have a whole lot to prove and thats great........WE are not the Yankees we are not just gonna throw money around like they do...if you remember last year which i know every mets fan does Offense was not our problem it was our fucking Pitching.....The Mets will be fine we WILL WIN THE NL east and make some noise in the postseason......SO FUCK MANNY and LETS GOO METS ANd get off OMARS back for christ sakes dude...........GET PUDGE OMAR LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 10, 2009 Author Share Posted March 10, 2009 LMAO i find this kinda funny......Heath Bell is straight GAAAABAHge when he pitched for us all i remember him doing is giving up late inning bombs.... He hated NY and everything about our team.When he was traded he said his greatest moment as a met was when they traded him hes a scumbag......and another thing WHY OHHHH WHY are you sooo fixated with adding another bat let alone that ASShole non hustling team wrecker like MAnny......yes i understand our team is loaded with lefties but it could be a whole lot worse...Im confident with the linup we have we got alot of young guys that have a whole lot to prove and thats great........WE are not the Yankees we are not just gonna throw money around like they do...if you remember last year which i know every mets fan does Offense was not our problem it was our fucking Pitching.....The Mets will be fine we WILL WIN THE NL east and make some noise in the postseason......SO FUCK MANNY and LETS GOO METS ANd get off OMARS back for christ sakes dude...........GET PUDGE OMAR LOL Yes I agree we do not throw money around like the Yankees on players like Texeira and Burnett to address a need, we throw it at the likes of Luis Castillo and Scott Schoenweis. That Manny is sure a pos I agree, but he did lead the Sox to 2 WS titles and single handedly carried the Dodgers on his back last year, but hey we have guys that can do that here right? Sooner or later ONE of them will do it I assume because its yet to happen from ANY of them when it really counts. And yes offense is not the problem over 162 games against shitty pitching, but it sure has been a problem in the late inning pressure situation come September and October the past three years, a situation that that team wrecker you speak of thrives in. As for Bell, go check the stats, he has been great the past 2 years. I even saw on ESPN they have him as one of the best up and coming relievers along with Lidstrom. Not saying that either of them are better than Pitz and Rodriguez, but if Omar gets credit for those two, he HAS to take a hit for the other two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I agree with.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 wait for it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 XXI. Not so much for Bell but definitely for Lindstrom. Here was a guy who you could just see that he was just what the Mets needed in the 'pen, and they let him go for Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick (Henry Owens was included in the deal from the Mets). You do not trade a fireballer like Lindstrom for minor league starting pitchers with low ceilings. The Bell deal was also a bad one. Not quite as bad, but still bad. He traded Bell and Ring, two relievers with good potential, for Jon Adkins and Ben Johnson. I know the Mets weren't THAT desperate for a light hitting 4th outfielder, and Adkins? Omar deserves a lot of criticism for trading away those talents for no return. But he's also made bold moves that he deserves credit for. I have to say that monday morning quarterbacking is pretty easy, and Omar did bring in players that made the Mets relevant again. So for that, he should be commended. Overall, he's a success as a GM. But for those two moves, they were terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lubeck Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have been reading and hearing about what a great off season Mr. Minaya has had While they do not have nearly the payroll the Yanks have the Mets are still in the top 5 in payroll. Having that money to spend makes it easy for a GM to look good. That said I can't speak about past transactions and how the Mets could be better if those transactions had not occurred. I just felt the need to point out that it isn't only the Yanks who can spend some cash to upgrade their team and have the GM look stellar in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandolphScott Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 LMAO i find this kinda funny......Heath Bell is straight GAAAABAHge when he pitched for us all i remember him doing is giving up late inning bombs.... He hated NY and everything about our team.When he was traded he said his greatest moment as a met was when they traded him hes a scumbag......and another thing WHY OHHHH WHY are you sooo fixated with adding another bat let alone that ASShole non hustling team wrecker like MAnny......yes i understand our team is loaded with lefties but it could be a whole lot worse...Im confident with the linup we have we got alot of young guys that have a whole lot to prove and thats great........WE are not the Yankees we are not just gonna throw money around like they do...if you remember last year which i know every mets fan does Offense was not our problem it was our fucking Pitching.....The Mets will be fine we WILL WIN THE NL east and make some noise in the postseason......SO FUCK MANNY and LETS GOO METS ANd get off OMARS back for christ sakes dude...........GET PUDGE OMAR LOL I bring you to June 2006, I was working that day and got off really early from work. I was hanging around and out of nowhere Bell walks into the diamond club lobby from Norfolk with a heavy as shit duffel bag....3 hours later..Bell is then told to go back to Norfolk. Yeah, I'd be just a little pissed too. Then again, I can know what the fuck I am talking about instead of making shit up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Lesner Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 The Mets offered K-Rod like 3 million more than what the Angels offered him last year in Spring Training, so I don't know what you mean when you say that teams didn't want to pay for him. A guy gets 62 saves and you don't want him so we could get an old hitter who can't play defense? Come on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 XXI. Not so much for Bell but definitely for Lindstrom. Here was a guy who you could just see that he was just what the Mets needed in the 'pen, and they let him go for Jason Vargas and Adam Bostick (Henry Owens was included in the deal from the Mets). You do not trade a fireballer like Lindstrom for minor league starting pitchers with low ceilings. The Bell deal was also a bad one. Not quite as bad, but still bad. He traded Bell and Ring, two relievers with good potential, for Jon Adkins and Ben Johnson. I know the Mets weren't THAT desperate for a light hitting 4th outfielder, and Adkins? Omar deserves a lot of criticism for trading away those talents for no return. But he's also made bold moves that he deserves credit for. I have to say that monday morning quarterbacking is pretty easy, and Omar did bring in players that made the Mets relevant again. So for that, he should be commended. Overall, he's a success as a GM. But for those two moves, they were terrible. I am in no way bashing Omar for anything he did in terms of his overall tenure here, I am merely objectively(I think that needs to be the Mets section theme this year) pointing out that he really rectified a problem that some could argue he created by spending cash on the best available. He gets credit for that but I agree Lidstrom was just a plain stupid trade, especially when you consider he also traded a power arm in Owens and then that same offseason went and got Ambrioux Burgos for Brian Bannister and justified it by saying he loves having power arms in the pen . I am mad that we do not have a better bat in the OF, but I blame that more on the Wilpons money situation than Omar. What I will give Omar credit for is that in his 5 year tenure here the Mets have drafted 100 times better than they had the previous 5 years under Philips and Duquette. Omar does believe you win by having pitching and developing as much of it from within as possible and for that reason alone I like him as a GM, with that attitude you should always at least compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 keep sleeping on heath bell (not you x) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 11, 2009 Author Share Posted March 11, 2009 The Mets offered K-Rod like 3 million more than what the Angels offered him last year in Spring Training, so I don't know what you mean when you say that teams didn't want to pay for him. A guy gets 62 saves and you don't want him so we could get an old hitter who can't play defense? Come on. I did not say I did not want him and let me clarify TEAMS DID NOT WANT TO PAY HIM THE EXCESSIVE AMOUNTS THE METS DID. Its the same reason the Yankees have Sabathia. Obviosly teams will "pay" them, its just that the Mets paid more and that fixed the problem. Let me simply put the question to you as you seem to need this asked as simply as possible. Would you rather have Bell, Lidstrom and money for that old hitter who can't play any defense(cough worse than Murphy or Tatis) or would you rather have Rodriguez, Putz and the current OF situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 keep sleeping on heath bell (not you x) I think Bell is very good, I just don't think he would be the pitcher he is today on the Mets. I have a lot of respect for what Bell has done for San Diego's pen, AA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 that's a fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 14, 2009 Author Share Posted March 14, 2009 I think Bell is very good, I just don't think he would be the pitcher he is today on the Mets. I have a lot of respect for what Bell has done for San Diego's pen, AA. the Mets and in particular that kook Rick Peterson fucked Bell up. Up and down up and down, man was just back from Norfolk one year and sent back the same day. You could tell from day 1 this kid had good stuff and once he got his weight under control he really showed it. I always liked him. I am not sure you are not right in your assesment that maybe NY was not the place for him, but he has definitely proven that for Ben JOhnson and Jon Adkins he was a steal for the Padres and a demerit on the resume of Omar Minaya, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 the Mets and in particular that kook Rick Peterson fucked Bell up. Up and down up and down, man was just back from Norfolk one year and sent back the same day. You could tell from day 1 this kid had good stuff and once he got his weight under control he really showed it. I always liked him. I am not sure you are not right in your assesment that maybe NY was not the place for him, but he has definitely proven that for Ben JOhnson and Jon Adkins he was a steal for the Padres and a demerit on the resume of Omar Minaya, IMO. This stuff evens out. Dumb trade but shit happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 This stuff evens out. Dumb trade but shit happens. Since the Seo for Sanchez deal before the 2006 season season Omar has on his resume... Brian Bannister for Ambrioux Burgos, because he likes having power arms in his pen then... trades Heath Bell(a power arm in the pen) and Royce Ring to the Padres for Ben Johnson and jon Adkins(not a power arm for the pen) then.... trades Matt Listrom(a power arm) and Henry Owens(a power arm) to the Marlins for Jason Vargas and some other bum I cannot even recall(neither of which were power arms in the pen). So my question is where exactly does this thing even out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 Since the Seo for Sanchez deal before the 2006 season season Omar has on his resume... Brian Bannister for Ambrioux Burgos, because he likes having power arms in his pen then... trades Heath Bell(a power arm in the pen) and Royce Ring to the Padres for Ben Johnson and jon Adkins(not a power arm for the pen) then.... trades Matt Listrom(a power arm) and Henry Owens(a power arm) to the Marlins for Jason Vargas and some other bum I cannot even recall(neither of which were power arms in the pen). So my question is where exactly does this thing even out? I'm just talking about with trades sometimes you win and others you don't. We got El Duque in the 06 and some of 07 season and John Maine who looks to be a solid starter for Kris Benson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 15, 2009 Author Share Posted March 15, 2009 I'm just talking about with trades sometimes you win and others you don't. We got El Duque in the 06 and some of 07 season and John Maine who looks to be a solid starter for Kris Benson. agreed, but since the Maine, El Duque and Sanchez coups of 2006, Omar has been off a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted March 15, 2009 Share Posted March 15, 2009 agreed, but since the Maine, El Duque and Sanchez coups of 2006, Omar has been off a bit. Yeah. It seems like he's gone to a strategy that goes along the lines of signing a bunch of washed up players and hope one of them turns out great and make him look like a genius (tatis). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Yeah. It seems like he's gone to a strategy that goes along the lines of signing a bunch of washed up LATIN players and hope one of them turns out great and make him look like a genius (tatis). fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted March 16, 2009 Share Posted March 16, 2009 Does he get credit for Johan? That was a trade that, by most accounts, we won by a landslide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 16, 2009 Author Share Posted March 16, 2009 Does he get credit for Johan? That was a trade that, by most accounts, we won by a landslide. Yess he does, but that has as much to do with the Mets ability to pay him as it does with what they gave up. You can bet if baseball were not such an economically one sided sport for certain teams there would have been better offers on the table to the Twins then what they basically settled for with the Mets. For arguements sake I guess we shall say he gets credit, but IMO much like Cashman with the Yankees in the late 90's when he got Knoblauch and Clemens and Justice etc in trades, it was more about being able to afford them then what your GM genius did to make the trade happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted March 21, 2009 Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yess he does, but that has as much to do with the Mets ability to pay him as it does with what they gave up. You can bet if baseball were not such an economically one sided sport for certain teams there would have been better offers on the table to the Twins then what they basically settled for with the Mets. For arguements sake I guess we shall say he gets credit, but IMO much like Cashman with the Yankees in the late 90's when he got Knoblauch and Clemens and Justice etc in trades, it was more about being able to afford them then what your GM genius did to make the trade happen. Exactly. It doesn't take a genius to realize that former Cy Young award winner Johan Santana is a good pitcher. But it does take a $100+ million payroll to afford him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted March 22, 2009 Author Share Posted March 22, 2009 Exactly. It doesn't take a genius to realize that former Cy Young award winner Johan Santana is a good pitcher. But it does take a $100+ million payroll to afford him... OBJECTIVITY Me likes this..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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