Lets review our current roster to determine remaining holes.

[gateb]

Nice research there.

Pts scored - 6th

YPG - 8th

Rushing YPG - 6th

Passing YPG - 13th

So what categories were you thinking of for the top 5 offenses?

 

Thats good but definitely not elite. What positions do we need to draft other than DT and LB to improve our defense? Do a litte reading before you get back to me because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

But you have to look at his point. With a QB playing as mediocre than any other QB in the league, we still produced a lot of points. Now, if we get the production that is expected out of Eli in his third season, with special teams helping us get into good field position and our defense supposedly healthier and more improved, I expect us to be in the top 5 in multiple offensive categories.

[parlintm]

Yeah sorry towards the end of the year the Seahawks,Colts,and Bengals creaped in front of us. Still top 5 though and top 5 is elite. I could care less about the 3rd WR that is until an injury occurs. But if healthy Carter can fill in or Taylor could step up. Wr is the least of our worries.

 

Well then what are our worries other than DT and LB? I think we seem pretty solid at S, CB and DE.

[gateb]

Well then what are our worries other than DT and LB? I think we seem pretty solid at S, CB and DE.

If we get Arrington then I see ourselves keeping Luke, but still drafting a LT in the first round if we fill our other needs along with Lavar.

[parlintm]

But you have to look at his point. With a QB playing as mediocre than any other QB in the league, we still produced a lot of points. Now, if we get the production that is expected out of Eli in his third season, with special teams helping us get into good field position and our defense supposedly healthier and more improved, I expect us to be in the top 5 in multiple offensive categories.

 

I do understand his point but just because we're near the tops in the league in a given category doesnt mean we can stop trying to improve. The third WR is a very obvious position that can use some improvement, that point is undeniable. You can argue that we have more pressing needs but I'm arguing that after we address LB and DT there isnt anything more pressing.

 

Some team has to have the best offense in the league, why not us? Why should we be content with 3rd or 4th. I really think adding a threat at #3 WR will propel us to the top and have a better effect on this team than adding depth on defense.

[HOUND]

Some of them will make the team but I didn't want to speculate which ones so I went with the best bet players to make the team. Clancey was extremely over paid. As I mentioned earlier he benefitted by playing next to the best DE combo in the NFL and he took the pay day. The Giants know better than to give him that kind of money knowing we can plug another guy in there and have them be just as effective. Robbins is a solid player as is Joseph, Duckett, and Allen. Remember people thought DT was a weakness going into last year as well and it turned out to be just fine. Our DT's will be just fine as they are. We will add a free agent or draft one. I am not all that concerned about the DT position. OLB is our weakest link. If we get a playmaker at this position we will have a dominant defense.

 

Are you saying Clancy was overpaid by the Giants last year or the Cardinals paid too much to get him? Either way I couldn't disagree more. Clancy was making a whopping $721 K last season for NY. The Cardinals signed him to a 4 year 8.1 million dollar deal (which includes his signing bonus). That's relative chump change for a starting grade DT. Besides, if playing next to good defensive ends made him productive, what's the harm in that? I wholeheartedly agree we shouldn't have given the guy a 20 million dollar deal but I also think we let him walk for pretty cheap.

[gateb]

I do understand his point but just because we're near the tops in the league in a given category doesnt mean we can stop trying to improve. The third WR is a very obvious position that can use some improvement, that point is undeniable. You can argue that we have more pressing needs but I'm arguing that after we address LB and DT there isnt anything more pressing.

 

Some team has to have the best offense in the league, why not us? Why should we be content with 3rd or 4th. I really think adding a threat at #3 WR will propel us to the top and have a better effect on this team than adding depth on defense.

I'm not disagreeing with going after a third WR. I myself have been saying for a while now that we should draft a WR in the first round or at least in the top two rounds to be an extra threat and a future replacement for Toomer if we do fill our voids up. However, in terms of being elite, I think this can be done quite simply if we keep our team together, stay healthy, and play to our full potential.

 

I agree with your second paragraph. But I do feel that LB and DT is more of a priority right now then putting our offense at #1. As we know from watching the Colts, #1 offense isn't necessary. I could tolerate #3 offense and #9 defense combined with #1 special teams.

[parlintm]

I'm not disagreeing with going after a third WR. I myself have been saying for a while now that we should draft a WR in the first round or at least in the top two rounds to be an extra threat and a future replacement for Toomer if we do fill our voids up. However, in terms of being elite, I think this can be done quite simply if we keep our team together, stay healthy, and play to our full potential.

 

I agree with your second paragraph. But I do feel that LB and DT is more of a priority right now then putting our offense at #1. As we know from watching the Colts, #1 offense isn't necessary. I could tolerate #3 offense and #9 defense combined with #1 special teams.

 

I agree wholehartedly that LB and DT are much bigger needs this offseason. I even think we could go for drafting 2 at each position. Im just looking past those two and the only other true need I see left is the third WR.

Here's another way to look at it. Lets say we go w/ Lb/dt in first two rounds. I think adding a third WR in round 3 could help us go from 3rd to 1st in offense wheras adding a player at ANY position wouldnt effect our defensive ranking because they would never get onto the field this year. If you can think of a spot, please let me know.

[HOUND]

Nice research there.

Pts scored - 6th

YPG - 8th

Rushing YPG - 6th

Passing YPG - 13th

So what categories were you thinking of for the top 5 offenses?

 

Thats good but definitely not elite. What positions do we need to draft other than DT and LB to improve our defense? Do a litte reading before you get back to me because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

 

I believe we were 4th in total yards per game.

We were 11th in passing yards per game.

You got rushing right though.

[gateb]

I agree wholehartedly that LB and DT are much bigger needs this offseason. I even think we could go for drafting 2 at each position. Im just looking past those two and the only other true need I see left is the third WR.

Here's another way to look at it. Lets say we go w/ Lb/dt in first two rounds. I think adding a third WR in round 3 could help us go from 3rd to 1st in offense wheras adding a player at ANY position wouldnt effect our defensive ranking because they would never get onto the field this year. If you can think of a spot, please let me know.

I think Carter can be the equivalent of a third round WR pick though. I'm not disagreeing that we shouldn't go WR in third round but I think we should look for value more then position in those type of rounds with the players we have.

 

Carter is really the guy that can take our offense to another level. Carter and/or Taylor that is. Their speed and big play capability is tremendous if they can catch the ball on a consistent basis and of course, stay healthy.

 

I'm all for drafting a WR in the first couple rounds, maybe even third. But after that unless it is the BPA, I don't really think that we should draft a WR there. For all we know, that guy could be the #6 WR with Taylor, Carter and Tyree in front of them. Don't want our third rounder to go to that.

[parlintm]

I believe we were 4th in total yards per game.

We were 11th in passing yards per game.

You got rushing right though.

 

Yeah, i noticed that right after i posted it. I got bad info from a bad sight. My apologies. Point is we weren't the top scoring team and we weren't top 5 in the other offensive categories.... although we sure could be if we had a consistent 3rd WR

[GiantsRevival]

Nice research there.

Pts scored - 6th

YPG - 8th

Rushing YPG - 6th

Passing YPG - 13th

So what categories were you thinking of for the top 5 offenses?

 

Thats good but definitely not elite. What positions do we need to draft other than DT and LB to improve our defense? Do a litte reading before you get back to me because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

OK Nice research but what you seem to have left out were key stats that a offense is judged by.

Total ofense 4th

Scoring offense 3rd (which obvoiusly you should recheck since you misquoted it)

Rushing 6th

passing 11th

 

With key players like Eli 5th in yardage,Tiki 2nd in yardage, Shockey 3rd in yardage, and Plax 9th in yardage. We have plenty of weapons on offense. Before we draft a WR I'd rather see a OLB, DT, LT, C, S, CB. Thats how far down my list a WR is at this point. Second day in the draft. Check the real stats of our offense then check the stats of our defense and see were the true needs are on this team. Very few people will side with you that WR is high on our list of needs. Why? Because football common sense tells them that.

Learn football before you attack someone that knows far more about football than you.

 

Just to prove my point here are the defensive stats:

Total defense 24th

Scoring 14th

rushing 12th

passing 27th

 

So you tell me what is a greater need on this team a 3rd WR or rebuilding the defense? Anyone with a football IQ could answer this one correctly.

[parlintm]

I'm all for drafting a WR in the first couple rounds, maybe even third. But after that unless it is the BPA, I don't really think that we should draft a WR there. For all we know, that guy could be the #6 WR with Taylor, Carter and Tyree in front of them. Don't want our third rounder to go to that.

 

I just want 1 WR. He'd be 5th, Tyree will never be a legit WR... hes ST all the way. And when Carter and Taylor get their annual injuries he instantly becomes the #3. JK. I pray that Carter can stay healthy b/c hes exactly what we need. Unfortunately he just cant do it which is why we need to draft a WR, for insurance and to challenge for that spot.

[gateb]

Seeing that the Colts had so many weapons on offense for the last few years or so, I'd rather have a more balanced type team, where we continue to spend our big bucks on defense and then possibly have enough money to get another threat to our offense.

 

When you think about it, EA deserves major props for managing this team. Almost every position is filled with at least a decent player and he continues to look for more playmakers or players who can fill in whatever holes there are. We are a very, very well-balanced team.

[gateb]

I just want 1 WR. He'd be 5th, Tyree will never be a legit WR... hes ST all the way. And when Carter and Taylor get their annual injuries he instantly becomes the #3. JK. I pray that Carter can stay healthy b/c hes exactly what we need. Unfortunately he just cant do it which is why we need to draft a WR, for insurance and to challenge for that spot.

Tyree better be a WR if he wants to live up to the amount of money we paid him. He could be a decent #4. That Dallas game to end the 2004-2005 season showed me that he can make some catches and it turns out he is very fast. He could even be a #3 if he really is worked on.

[parlintm]

OK Nice research but what you seem to have left out were key stats that a offense is judged by.

Total ofense 4th

Scoring offense 3rd (which obvoiusly you should recheck since you misquoted it)

Rushing 6th

passing 11th

 

With key players like Eli 5th in yardage,Tiki 2nd in yardage, Shockey 3rd in yardage, and Plax 9th in yardage. We have plenty of weapons on offense. Before we draft a WR I'd rather see a OLB, DT, LT, C, S, CB. Thats how far down my list a WR is at this point. Second day in the draft. Check the real stats of our offense then check the stats of our defense and see were the true needs are on this team. Very few people will side with you that WR is high on our list of needs. Why? Because football common sense tells them that.

 

So you tell me what is a greater need on this team a 3rd WR or rebuilding the defense? Anyone with a football IQ could answer this one correctly.

 

Sorry about misquoting the offense, I did it in a hurry but my point was that we werent top scoring team and a top 5 team in every offensive category.

 

Ill give you OLB and DT as needs ahead of WR in this draft. I even agree with you to some extent that we need a LT too (although its harder to find a legit LT in the third than a WR). I think that S and WR are comparable in terms of need, although I give the edge to WR b/c of the Toomer's Age Factor. We absolutely dont have a need at CB though. A third round pick would be behind the following: Madison, McQuarters, Webster, Deloach, Peterson and Walker. As for C, we have 2 serviceable centers and adding another would just be a waste of a roster spot.

 

Well, if my options are 3rd WR OR rebuilding the defense, its close, but i guess id have to go w/ rebuilding the defense. Last time I checked though, you cant rebuild an entire defense in one draft pick, let alone a third round pick.

Edited March 28, 2006 by Armstead98

[GiantsRevival]

But you have to look at his point. With a QB playing as mediocre than any other QB in the league, we still produced a lot of points. Now, if we get the production that is expected out of Eli in his third season, with special teams helping us get into good field position and our defense supposedly healthier and more improved, I expect us to be in the top 5 in multiple offensive categories.

We were top 5 last year some of his stats are wrong.

 

I do understand his point but just because we're near the tops in the league in a given category doesnt mean we can stop trying to improve. The third WR is a very obvious position that can use some improvement, that point is undeniable. You can argue that we have more pressing needs but I'm arguing that after we address LB and DT there isnt anything more pressing.

 

Some team has to have the best offense in the league, why not us? Why should we be content with 3rd or 4th. I really think adding a threat at #3 WR will propel us to the top and have a better effect on this team than adding depth on defense.

 

We don't need a #1 offense. We need a top ten defense to go along with that top 5 offense.

 

Are you saying Clancy was overpaid by the Giants last year or the Cardinals paid too much to get him? Either way I couldn't disagree more. Clancy was making a whopping $721 K last season for NY. The Cardinals signed him to a 4 year 8.1 million dollar deal (which includes his signing bonus). That's relative chump change for a starting grade DT. Besides, if playing next to good defensive ends made him productive, what's the harm in that? I wholeheartedly agree we shouldn't have given the guy a 20 million dollar deal but I also think we let him walk for pretty cheap.

I was talking about what Arizona paid him. Watch how his play goes down now that he can't hide behind Strahan and Osi. They made him look real good. Obviously the Giants thought he got to much or they would have resigned him. I believe we can plug in Robbins and he can have the same success. Plus getting into a bidding battle with the Cardinals was a losing battle. They have ridiculous cap room.

 

I agree wholehartedly that LB and DT are much bigger needs this offseason. I even think we could go for drafting 2 at each position. Im just looking past those two and the only other true need I see left is the third WR.

Here's another way to look at it. Lets say we go w/ Lb/dt in first two rounds. I think adding a third WR in round 3 could help us go from 3rd to 1st in offense wheras adding a player at ANY position wouldnt effect our defensive ranking because they would never get onto the field this year. If you can think of a spot, please let me know.

We only have one C on our roster, we could use another G because Whittle is gone, We need a SS to backup Wilson(I'm not even sure Harris is a SS), OT needs to be adressed we only have 3, 2 OLBers, DT, and I wouldn't mind a solid corner in the 1st 2 ropunds in case Peterson can't come back. WR is way down the list. Going from 3rd to 1st in offense is barely noticable. And there are a lot of defensive players in this draft that can start immediately. There are a number of OLBer that are starting material that should be available for us in the 1st round. Remember the 3rd WR is rarely on the field in our offense. How much of an impact do you really think a 3rd WR would be in our offense. We are mostly and I-formation offense.

 

I believe we were 4th in total yards per game.

We were 11th in passing yards per game.

You got rushing right though.

Yes you are correct sir he also left out a few key stats as well. Its easy to argue a point when you misquote stats.

[parlintm]

We only have one C on our roster, we could use another G because Whittle is gone.

 

We need a SS to backup Wilson(I'm not even sure Harris is a SS), OT needs to be adressed we only have 3, 2 OLBers, DT, and I wouldn't mind a solid corner in the 1st 2 ropunds in case Peterson can't come back.

 

WR is way down the list. Going from 3rd to 1st in offense is barely noticable. And there are a lot of defensive players in this draft that can start immediately. There are a number of OLBer that are starting material that should be available for us in the 1st round. Remember the 3rd WR is rarely on the field in our offense. How much of an impact do you really think a 3rd WR would be in our offense. We are mostly and I-formation offense.

 

Seubert can play center. If Wilson get hurt, Demps can play SS and Butler will step in at FS but Harris is a SS. If Peterson doesnt come back we'll be fine. We've got McQuarters, Deloack and Walker right now as backups to Madison and Webster.

 

I think people are misunderstaning this. I want to/insist on using our first two picks on a LB and DT. Im talking about getting a WR in the 3rd or 4th.

 

I know its a low impact position but its still a position and it will give us greater flexibility on third down. Getting that third WR (after first getting a LB and DT) will help more IMO than a 5th safety, 6th corner and 4th OT.

[GiantsRevival]

Seubert can play center. If Wilson get hurt, Demps can play SS and Butler will step in at FS but Harris is a SS. If Peterson doesnt come back we'll be fine. We've got McQuarters, Deloack and Walker right now as backups to Madison and Webster.

 

I think people are misunderstaning this. I want to/insist on using our first two picks on a LB and DT. Im talking about getting a WR in the 3rd or 4th.

 

I know its a low impact position but its still a position and it will give us greater flexibility on third down. Getting that third WR (after first getting a LB and DT) will help more IMO than a 5th safety, 6th corner and 4th OT.

Well if Seubert is backup C then we are thin at G. Either way we probably need 1 OL. If it were a perfect draft this is how mine would look. Counting on us signing a DT in free agency

1st OLB 2nd RB 3rd LT 4th OLB 5th G/C 6th WR 7th CB

 

Honestly I wouldn't be upset if we went in a different direction. I've been thinking about it. If we were to sign Arrington and draft a DT in the second. I would absolutely love to get RB White in the 1st. You wanna talk about depth. If Tiki goes down we are done. At least with White we have an eventual replacement and possible immediate star if Tiki were to go down. This is scary to think about. But imagine Ward or Jacobs as the every down back. Ouch I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with that. So actually RB is probably higher on my list than WR

[parlintm]

Well if Seubert is backup C then we are thin at G. Either way we probably need 1 OL. If it were a perfect draft this is how mine would look. Counting on us signing a DT in free agency

1st OLB 2nd RB 3rd LT 4th OLB 5th G/C 6th WR 7th CB

 

Honestly I wouldn't be upset if we went in a different direction. I've been thinking about it. If we were to sign Arrington and draft a DT in the second. I would absolutely love to get RB White in the 1st. You wanna talk about depth. If Tiki goes down we are done. At least with White we have an eventual replacement and possible immediate star if Tiki were to go down. This is scary to think about. But imagine Ward or Jacobs as the every down back. Ouch I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with that. So actually RB is probably higher on my list than WR

 

Thats why Seubert's so valuable, he can play both. I really think we're fine at OL. I could see us signing an undraftee or two but for now the OL might be our strongest unit.

 

If Tiki goes down we're f'ed. At least that's what we'd think. Although I wouldnt count Jacobs and Ward out quite yet for being able to carry the load for a few games. Granted, its the last thing I want to see but Id like to think they could do it. It would be a split job and we'd have to rely on the passing game (good thing we're going for that 3rd WR, hehehe....) and our defense will have to step up as well. Something I certainly think that they'll be capable of this year.

 

Here's why we wont draft a RB (unless its a late round grab). The Giants are looking at using their top 3 picks to make the team better this year. We badly need at least a LB and DT. After that there are some spots that could still use some depth: WR and S are the two that come to mind. So the Giants will use the top 3 picks to address needs as long as they are close to the BPA. They're not going to find a better back than Jacobs/Ward in rounds 4-7 so it would be a waste of a pick.

[Barens]

Thing is we don't need a superstar at DT. We have 3 capable Dt's in Joseph,Robbins, and Allen. We just need some depth. A middle rounder would suffice. With the 1st 2 rounds available for OLBers. Going into a draft with 2 weakness in depth is not a bad scenerio.

 

I never said we had to sign a superstar, and while Joseph, Allen and Robbins are somewhat capable, they aren't exactly the most reliable. Plus, one of the reasons our defense was so successful defending the run last year, IMO, was because of the depth we had at DT, and how we utilized Clancy's strength's. I think Buckner might be the only viable option left at DT, and he's not in Giants blue just yet.

[Money]

I think the difference between having a good DL and a dominant DL is the lack of a playmaking DT next to Joseph. That's why I'd be tempted to take someone like Bunkley or Ngata if they are available at 25. If you want to win games, it all starts up front.

[Money]

The Giants offense was 3rd in the NFL scoring output with a 2nd-year QB and new OL. We are returning they same starters and primary reserves, aside from Jason Whittle. I think Eli's natural progression, his developing rapport with Shockey, Toomer, & Burress, and improved continuity along the OL will result in considerable improvement from 2005 to 2006. Maybe we could use some spare parts here and there, but concerns over the offense are misguided.

[parlintm]

The Giants offense was 3rd in the NFL scoring output with a 2nd-year QB and new OL. We are returning they same starters and primary reserves, aside from Jason Whittle. I think Eli's natural progression, his developing rapport with Shockey, Toomer, & Burress, and improved continuity along the OL will result in considerable improvement from 2005 to 2006. Maybe we could use some spare parts here and there, but concerns over the offense are misguided.

 

My concern is not for the offense but for one position. I think that concerns over the defense are quite overstated. During the last half of the season the Giants D was actually a strength of ours. Here's how they performed in the most important category (pts allowed) in the last half of the season:

Week 8: Shutout Skins

9 - held 9ers to 6

10 - gave up 24 to the Vikes but if you remember there was an INT TD, punt TD and kickoff TD... so none of that is on the D.

11 - Held the iggles to 17 in the win

12 - Gave up 24 to the hawks (highest scoring offense in NFL) in OT.

13 - Cowboys got 17

14 - Gave up 23 to eagles

15 - Held KC (highest YPG offense in NFL) to 17

16 - Worst game of the season for defense here. Gave up 35 to Skins cuz we couldnt stop Moss.

17 - Held raiders to 21 in Win.

Playoffs - Gave up 21 to Carolina w/ street players starting at LB for us.

Those numbers aren't awful so our defense can't be as bad as everyone makes it sound.

 

Meanwhile... in the biggest game of the year the offense laid a goose egg. Im not saying the offense sucks or the defense is great. Im just saying that its not THAT lopsided. So we look at last years D and think, what was our weakness there? Almost everyone would say the secondary and injuries to the LB's.

 

So where are we now? Well we just signed a pro bowl CB as well as 2 other solid DB's. Id say that took care of a lot. Yes we still have holes at LB and DT but for the most part that's it. Yes we can use more depth on defense but I dont think we need to freak out and say we can only draft 7 defensive players. Since our offense absolutely sucked (and it wasnt all Elis fault) in the biggest game of the year, I certainly think it can use a bit of improvement. How can we do that? By adding a decent third WR. If we do that, I believe our team will be complete, after drafting a LB and DT of course. The rest of the picks can be used to address depth at various positions: another LB, DT and S for example.

[Money]

Armstead, signing a 32-year old Sam Madison and Will Demps (who is average when healthy, which he currently is not) doesn't make our defense that much better. Our secondary has made some improvement, at least in terms of personnel, but not much. Perhaps replacing Milius with Giunta will pay significant dividends, but the Giants still have a lot more work to do on the defensive side of the ball. Right now, there is no WLB on the roster, which is problematic. Our DT situation behind Joseph is underwhelming. Aside from Webster, what CB on this team can see as a plus starter in 2007 or 2008?

 

Some 11-game stretch where the defense allowed 18.18 points per game should not hide the defenciencies that exist. And keep in mind, 18 ppg is above average. If the Giants want to realistically contend for a Super Bowl, they should have much higher standards.

 

Also, using 1 game (vs. Carolina) to make conclusive judgments regarding the state of the offense is foolish. That game in no way discount what happened in the previous 16 games. That's akin to me saying that defense is far worse than anyone thinks because of the San Diego game. You have to look at the big picture, not selective samples.

[parlintm]

Armstead, signing a 32-year old Sam Madison and Will Demps (who is average when healthy, which he currently is not) doesn't make our defense that much better. Our secondary has made some improvement, at least in terms of personnel, but not much. Perhaps replacing Milius with Giunta will pay significant dividends, but the Giants still have a lot more work to do on the defensive side of the ball. Right now, there is no WLB on the roster, which is problematic. Our DT situation behind Joseph is underwhelming. Aside from Webster, what CB on this team can see as a plus starter in 2007 or 2008?

 

Some 11-game stretch where the defense allowed 18.18 points per game should not hide the defenciencies that exist. And keep in mind, 18 ppg is above average. If the Giants want to realistically contend for a Super Bowl, they should have much higher standards.

 

Also, using 1 game (vs. Carolina) to make conclusive judgments regarding the state of the offense is foolish. That game in no way discount what happened in the previous 16 games. That's akin to me saying that defense is far worse than anyone thinks because of the San Diego game. You have to look at the big picture, not selective samples.

 

I agree to some extent. Im just trying to point out that the Giants D really wasnt that bad last year and it has already improved this offseason. With some key draft picks at DT and LB I actually think it will be improved to the point that its good enough for us to be a SB contender. The part that I agree with is the fact that we've got aging players in the secondary but you could make the same argument at WR. For me it comes down to getting players who could help us get over the hill and win a SB this year or next. I think that one of those spots is at the third WR. EA even said in his offseason interview that it was a priority of his. For that reason I wanted to discuss who the potential players are that he might draft but I guess the MB is set on taking only defensive players this year and there is absolutely zero interest in discussing the possibility of acquring an extra WR, which is fine. It just means that Ill have to go to other sites to discuss who the good mid-round receivers might be because while you all disagree that its not important, I still think that EA will draft one.