xxi-xxv Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 To argue with me that this piece of dung is nothing more than a fraud. You can have all the three run saves vs the Nats that you want. This guy have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER saved a big game. This was as big a game as the Mets have needed in years and yet again, he fucking blows it, in Grand fucking fashion. SO I beg the Wagner apologists, argue with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jranieli Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 It was a save he needed but not a big one and not the biggest in years. It was a trip we should have won but there is no reason for this team to be out west again and will be out there again. He should have never been put in the situation though. This whole team is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 It was a save he needed but not a big one and not the biggest in years. It was a trip we should have won but there is no reason for this team to be out west again and will be out there again. He should have never been put in the situation though. This whole team is to blame. So you thin its out of the realm for a closer to hav to get 4 outs in a game in a team needs in a pitchers park. Wagner apologist#1 = jranieli I am not arguing with you here and I RESPECT your opinion, but I find it incredulous that anyone thinks this is not deplorable for a guy who a)does all the talking of a big time closer and b)makes the money of one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 Every save is big for a closer. When a closer blows it the games just look bigger. Our entire pitching staff sucked today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jranieli Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 So you thin its out of the realm for a closer to hav to get 4 outs in a game in a team needs in a pitchers park. Wagner apologist#1 = jranieli I am not arguing with you here and I RESPECT your opinion, but I find it incredulous that anyone thinks this is not deplorable for a guy who a)does all the talking of a big time closer and b)makes the money of one. You know I am not an apologist. I am angry too man. This whole pen is horrible and Pedro did not come up big today when we needed it. I guess pitchers only pitch well 3/4 of the time. Most of the time, the team cannot score runs and today they did, the pitching sucked balls. There should be no excuses for Pedro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 You know I am not an apologist. I am angry too man. This whole pen is horrible and Pedro did not come up big today when we needed it. I guess pitchers only pitch well 3/4 of the time. Most of the time, the team cannot score runs and today they did, the pitching sucked balls. There should be no excuses for Pedro. This team is snake bit. When they've been hitting, the pitching has sucked (like today) when they can't hit, the pitching is great but just short of good enough to win. Church's freak concussion continues to haunt the team, questionable managerial moves, and bad defense at areas we are usually good at. This team has been swept in 4 game series twice already this year. No closer is automatic, Wagner has had a lot of big saves in his career, and I agree with gateb that the games are magnified when the win is in the bag and the closer blows it. It's just coincidence and bad luck that it happened on a day where we had lost the previous 3 games and the team really needed a win. It's just almost comical at this point the way this team seems to find a way to lose. Schoenweis inexpicably falling apart against left-handers the other night, of all batters, and Wagner today. It just sucks and I think Willie may not make it through the week if this team doesn't start winning.... starting with their next game. I'm being serious. I really believe the Wilpons will fire him in-season to try to get somebody in there that can fire this team up or send a message. This team collapses under pressure and they are really feeling all the pressure in the world from the biggest pressure cooker in the world, New York. They are pressing and Willie can't seem to communicate to them effectively in a way that can get them to relax, because Willie is wound so tight himself. To top it off, this team is one of the worst power-hitting teams in the league, and you need your big boppers in an offense to get things done sometimes when your team is unable to put together rallies. Beltran has been disappointing in this area, not to mention Delgado. Was hoping Church could fill the void there but he obviously can't when he's not on the field. This is a mess of a team and the Mets can only hope that they can get some young players up here that are loose and ready to go all out similar to Jeffries in his rookie year and Lenny Dykstra. The Mets should be on critical alert right now and a lot of players need to get hot and stay hot for a long time to even consider getting back into this race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jranieli Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 And whoever did this scheduling is a fucking retard. So they go on a West Coast trip get a day off and come home for 6 days and then go out west again without a day off and play three games in LA and then get a day off to travel to Colorado, play 3 games there and travel to play Seattle the next day in New York. They will be lucky to win 7 out of 15. Get this, they get another day off while they are at home and then play the Yankees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 And whoever did this scheduling is a fucking retard. So they go on a West Coast trip get a day off and come home for 6 days and then go out west again without a day off and play three games in LA and then get a day off to travel to Colorado, play 3 games there and travel to play Seattle the next day in New York. They will be lucky to win 7 out of 15. Get this, they get another day off while they are at home and then play the Yankees. We play the Yanks in a doubleheader too. I agree, it is total bullshit. The thing that was most striking about this team heading into the year was the fact we don't have a power guy that is a legit threat to go deep every time he's up, or is capable of changing a game with a 3 run bomb. I originally wasn't for it but Teixera is starting to turn into a must if we want to return to legitimacy with our lineup. And bring a gold glove to first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 We play the Yanks in a doubleheader too. I agree, it is total bullshit. The thing that was most striking about this team heading into the year was the fact we don't have a power guy that is a legit threat to go deep every time he's up, or is capable of changing a game with a 3 run bomb. I originally wasn't for it but Teixera is starting to turn into a must if we want to return to legitimacy with our lineup. And bring a gold glove to first. Gateb, I hear you and I totally agree, but we should not even entertain the idea of Big Tex in a Mets uniform. There is no way the Braves will let him walk. The Braves will pay him and I just don't see him leaving that ball club. What we need to hope for is that one of the young guys will be ready to take that position, whether it be Carp, Evans, or Ike Davis. If they are not, we are probably better off just having someone like Tatis play first until one of them emerges, or renting a vet for one year like Millar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Gateb, I hear you and I totally agree, but we should not even entertain the idea of Big Tex in a Mets uniform. There is no way the Braves will let him walk. The Braves will pay him and I just don't see him leaving that ball club. What we need to hope for is that one of the young guys will be ready to take that position, whether it be Carp, Evans, or Ike Davis. If they are not, we are probably better off just having someone like Tatis play first until one of them emerges, or renting a vet for one year like Millar. The Braves do not have the ability to bid as high as the bidding war may go. They have a lot of young studs they intend to lock up and signing Teixera to a loaded deal would not permit that to happen. That's why I didn't get why they traded for him in the first place. They weren't one piece away, they gave up a ton of prospects, and they weren't going to resign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Gateb, I admire your optimism but I still believe that the Braves will make it happen. The Braves are tenth in payroll right now at over $102 million. In addition, Hampton's contract is in it's final year, so that's $15 million they are paying him this year that they are not next year. Plus they are already paying Tex $12.5 million, so it's not much more of a reach. Plus Glavine's $8 mil likely comes off the books too, as he's probably retiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 the two most pertinent points that x brought up are the fact that he makes as much as he does and the fact that he shoots his mouth off. rivera never talks, so as far as im concerned NO closer should be talking like billy does. he doesn't have the clout to be putting up 'know your role, rook' signs on people's lockers, and calling out his teammates in the media. and he simply makes way too much money for a guy who doesn't get big saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 Gateb, I admire your optimism but I still believe that the Braves will make it happen. The Braves are tenth in payroll right now at over $102 million. In addition, Hampton's contract is in it's final year, so that's $15 million they are paying him this year that they are not next year. Plus they are already paying Tex $12.5 million, so it's not much more of a reach. Plus Glavine's $8 mil likely comes off the books too, as he's probably retiring. that's true... i just don't think the braves really are into the idea of paying Tex (or anyone) that much money. if you read articles everywhere the Braves are considered an afterthought for Tex's landing spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 the braves aren't paying all of hampton's contract though, florida is paying 6+ mil of it per year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allstarjim Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 the two most pertinent points that x brought up are the fact that he makes as much as he does and the fact that he shoots his mouth off. rivera never talks, so as far as im concerned NO closer should be talking like billy does. he doesn't have the clout to be putting up 'know your role, rook' signs on people's lockers, and calling out his teammates in the media. and he simply makes way too much money for a guy who doesn't get big saves. AA - I agree with almost all of what you said, except for the big saves. He has gotten big saves before and will again, and he will blow some saves, too. The thing about the New York fan base is that they have been exposed to Mariano Rivera's greatness for so long, that he becomes the basis of comparison for any closer in NY. That is just not fair to wagner because Rivera is one of, if not the best, closer of all time, and Wagner simply can't compete with that. In short, New York fans have been spoiled by Rivera, and need to realize that Wagner is still better than all but maybe two or three closers in all of baseball. I'm as frustrated as any NY fan, but Wagner has been very good the last couple of years. This team is not losing because of Wagner. It is losing because the hitters, starting pitchers, and bullpen can't all put a solid game in together at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 AA - I agree with almost all of what you said, except for the big saves. He has gotten big saves before and will again, and he will blow some saves, too. The thing about the New York fan base is that they have been exposed to Mariano Rivera's greatness for so long, that he becomes the basis of comparison for any closer in NY. That is just not fair to wagner because Rivera is one of, if not the best, closer of all time, and Wagner simply can't compete with that. In short, New York fans have been spoiled by Rivera, and need to realize that Wagner is still better than all but maybe two or three closers in all of baseball. I'm as frustrated as any NY fan, but Wagner has been very good the last couple of years. This team is not losing because of Wagner. It is losing because the hitters, starting pitchers, and bullpen can't all put a solid game in together at all. wagner's had a good career, and is probably the 3rd or 4th best closer over the past 12 years or so, but the guy hasn't won anything and seems to fancy himself some all-time great vet who has the clout to say the things he says. i honestly don't agree with him. if rivera and hoffman are quiet professionals who don't conduct themselves that way, then wagner should follow suit. it'd be like some 10 year vet punter shooting his mouth off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 the two most pertinent points that x brought up are the fact that he makes as much as he does and the fact that he shoots his mouth off. rivera never talks, so as far as im concerned NO closer should be talking like billy does. he doesn't have the clout to be putting up 'know your role, rook' signs on people's lockers, and calling out his teammates in the media. and he simply makes way too much money for a guy who doesn't get big saves. Stop talking nonsensical jargon that makes sense AA, we have had a bad schedule and we are snake bitten wah wah wah. I am dusgusted reading this. Schedule? Too many west coast trips and a game against a last place team like the Yankees? I am starting to think you people believe this nonsense! A 140 million payrol should overcome this mundane bullshit! Here are the facts, this team SUCKS ASS. This team as currently comprised had their best chance of winning in 2006, they had a 1-0 lead in the LCS and a lead in game 2 at home in the 9th and the game was blown. By who? I shall not say his name. Yet here we all are apologizing for all this 2 years later, with a team that is nowhere near as good and has the heart of an alley cat. Facts are facts this team sucks, and its apparent that they have zero heart. Onto the2008 NFL season for Met fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 Billy Wagners post season career ERA is a nice little 8.71. 10.1 IP 18 hits allowed, 11strikeouts and 3 saves. Again explain to me when in a big spot this guy has come through. I give you yesterday and last AUG 30th vs the Phils. Games his team needed immensely and he blew. This guy is garbage and I will argue this poin till the death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 LMFAO My god this guy is nothing more than Benitez. Please anyone argue my thoughts I dare you. This man is Benitez with a southern accent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gateb Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 At least Wagner has a career in running out the tarp during rain delays. He showed me a lot last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxi-xxv Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 even the groundskeepers laugh at Wagner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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