The tale of two quarterbacks.

[Nesta]

well certainly he didn't always win...but they always believed they could win any game because of him...and when he was all they had, he won more then he lost...Manning has yet to prove that he can put the team on his shoulders when he needs to and carry them...the Dog isn't saying he can't, but as each game of year moves forward with limited evidence of this...well...ummm...you know...

 

Elway never had to carry the entire team. He may have had to move out of the pocket cause the oline was playing poorly, or outgun his opponent because his defense played poorly, or look to secondary receivers because his number one was playing poorly, but he never had to carry the entire team. When it was up to him to do so, you got 55-10, superbowl loss vs. 9'ers. It's impossible for one person, especially a quarterback to carry an entire team. Someone has to catch the fuckin ball.

[ksm7]

Elway never had to carry the entire team. He may have had to move out of the pocket cause the oline was playing poorly, or outgun his opponent because his defense played poorly, or look to secondary receivers because his number one was playing poorly, but he never had to carry the entire team. When it was up to him to do so, you got 55-10, superbowl loss vs. 9'ers. It's impossible for one person, especially a quarterback to carry an entire team. Someone has to catch the fuckin ball.

 

the Dog wonders why this would be different? first you say he never had to carry the team, then you say when he did they got blasted in the Super Bowls...the fact is, it was the same team with the same players...he had little around him and won repeatedly from his first years in...Manning has not shown that...the DOg has no issue with you, just simply stating that these two QBs do not belong in the same conversation...Manning is no Elway, at this stage of his career...he is not a consistent winner....

[Nesta]

the Dog wonders why this would be different? first you say he never had to carry the team, then you say when he did they got blasted in the Super Bowls...the fact is, it was the same team with the same players...he had little around him and won repeatedly from his first years in...Manning has not shown that...the DOg has no issue with you, just simply stating that these two QBs do not belong in the same conversation...Manning is no Elway, at this stage of his career...he is not a consistent winner....

 

No I'm saying when any qb has to carry an entire team, they lose. It's not complicated.

We've been down this road doggy. If Elway had little around him, why did he have more probowlers on his roster in that first 4 years than the Giants?

 

And no he's not a consistent winner. He's got one less win than PEYTON FUCKING MANNING in the same number of starts.

[Nesta]

How's McNabb doing btw?

[ksm7]

No I'm saying when any qb has to carry an entire team, they lose. It's not complicated.

We've been down this road doggy. If Elway had little around him, why did he have more probowlers on his roster in that first 4 years than the Giants?

 

And no he's not a consistent winner. He's got one less win than PEYTON FUCKING MANNING in the same number of starts.

 

The Dog will try again (computer issues...cursed computer...)...are you suggesting that Winder/willhite = barber/jacobs...and that johnson/jackson/kay = burress/toomer/shockey?? The fact is Elway won close to on his own regularly...did he beat super bowl caliber teams on his own...no...but most of the time he did won...

 

and Manning has as many wins as his big brother...super...he still doesn't belong in the same breath as Elway...you disagree...the Dog is fine with that...

 

keep guessing...the Dog found the Eagles lack of ability to win the big one laughable...because the Dog does not care much for the Eagles...

[Nesta]

The Dog will try again (computer issues...cursed computer...)...are you suggesting that Winder/willhite = barber/jacobs...and that johnson/jackson/kay = burress/toomer/shockey?? The fact is Elway won close to on his own regularly...did he beat super bowl caliber teams on his own...no...but most of the time he did won...

 

and Manning has as many wins as his big brother...super...he still doesn't belong in the same breath as Elway...you disagree...the Dog is fine with that...

 

keep guessing...the Dog found the Eagles lack of ability to win the big one laughable...because the Dog does not care much for the Eagles...

 

Winder was a two time probowler in Elway's first 4 years, and though his receivers weren't all pros (AND NEITHER ARE OURS), Mark Jackson and Steve Watson were good in their time. You make it sound like he was throwing to peewee players.

 

The denver defense was outstanding, unlike ours in the last 4 years.

 

No worries doggy, if I were an eagle fan, I'd be denying too.

[ksm7]

Winder was a two time probowler in Elway's first 4 years, and though his receivers weren't all pros (AND NEITHER ARE OURS), Mark Jackson and Steve Watson were good in their time. You make it sound like he was throwing to peewee players.

 

The denver defense was outstanding, unlike ours in the last 4 years.

 

No worries doggy, if I were an eagle fan, I'd be denying too.

 

And the measure of great players has to do with pro-bowls? The Dog has to disagree there...the fact is, Manning has more to work with then Elway did...never the less - again, Manning does not belong in the same comparison...the Dog is begining to think you may be the third Manning brother with your unbridled support...again, no issues with that...

 

think what you will about the Dog's team of choice..whatever keeps you warm at night...it can't be Eli's performance that is doing that, so...

[Nesta]

And the measure of great players has to do with pro-bowls? The Dog has to disagree there...the fact is, Manning has more to work with then Elway did...never the less - again, Manning does not belong in the same comparison...the Dog is begining to think you may be the third Manning brother with your unbridled support...again, no issues with that...

 

think what you will about the Dog's team of choice..whatever keeps you warm at night...it can't be Eli's performance that is doing that, so...

Yes the measure of great players has to do with probowls doggy, amongst other things.

If you want to say 'fact is Manning has more to work with' then prove it. Elway had more probowlers around him, so you prove how he had less to work with.

 

Maybe you won't have to hide your love the egals next year when Kolb takes over.

[ksm7]

Yes the measure of great players has to do with probowls doggy, amongst other things.

If you want to say 'fact is Manning has more to work with' then prove it. Elway had more probowlers around him, so you prove how he had less to work with.

 

Maybe you won't have to hide your love the egals next year when Kolb takes over.

 

The Dog thought the whole Barber - Winder, Shockey-Clarence Kay, Vance Johnson-Plaxco Burress comparisons at the skill positions would suffice...unless you think those players in Denver were better, in which case the Dog doesn't see this debate progressing very far....

 

I am sure if given the opportunity to take each player in their respective prime, a coach would choose the vaunted Winder/Kay/Johnson trio over Barber/Shockey/Burress...that coach would require a mental exam, but he would have that opportunity....

 

The Dog knows very little about Kolb, so even if the Dog was an Eagles fan, it would be hard to say what feelings this would initiate...

[Nesta]

The Dog thought the whole Barber - Winder, Shockey-Clarence Kay, Vance Johnson-Plaxco Burress comparisons at the skill positions would suffice...unless you think those players in Denver were better, in which case the Dog doesn't see this debate progressing very far....

 

I am sure if given the opportunity to take each player in their respective prime, a coach would choose the vaunted Winder/Kay/Johnson trio over Barber/Shockey/Burress...that coach would require a mental exam, but he would have that opportunity....

 

The Dog knows very little about Kolb, so even if the Dog was an Eagles fan, it would be hard to say what feelings this would initiate...

 

Doggy doggy. Winder was a good back, indicated by the two pro bowl selections in Elway's first 4 years he was one of the best in the AFC at that time. Now career wise did he match up to Barber? No. Hardly any rb's do. But we aren't comparing careers here, just the first 4 years of each qb. So did Elway have a good rb? Yes he did. And granted Eli has one in BJ and had one in Barber.

 

Shockey is a good te. Very good receiving te, but he was not an outstanding blocker like Kay. And that was Kay's primary role on that offense. So poor comparison.

 

And yes Burress is better than Vance Johnson. Ofcourse Burress is a vet, and vance was a rook/soph in those first 4 years. Vance probably had the better hands. Burress the size.

 

But you are wisely skirting the issue of the TEAM. The majority of Elway's probowlers came from his defense.

And as they say, defense wins championships. Elway had a good one. Ours was best in Eli's rookie year, then went downhill from there.

 

Elway had a better team around him period. If you want to prove otherwise, please do. I just can't take your word for it, as I was watching that team back then, and this team now.

 

In the meantime, I'll be here painfully defending my team, while you sit in the closet protecting your ovaries.

I really felt for you yesterday. Your egles came so close.

[ksm7]

Doggy doggy. Winder was a good back, indicated by the two pro bowl selections in Elway's first 4 years he was one of the best in the AFC at that time. Now career wise did he match up to Barber? No. Hardly any rb's do. But we aren't comparing careers here, just the first 4 years of each qb. So did Elway have a good rb? Yes he did. And granted Eli has one in BJ and had one in Barber.

 

Shockey is a good te. Very good receiving te, but he was not an outstanding blocker like Kay. And that was Kay's primary role on that offense. So poor comparison.

 

And yes Burress is better than Vance Johnson. Ofcourse Burress is a vet, and vance was a rook/soph in those first 4 years. Vance probably had the better hands. Burress the size.

 

But you are wisely skirting the issue of the TEAM. The majority of Elway's probowlers came from his defense.

And as they say, defense wins championships. Elway had a good one. Ours was best in Eli's rookie year, then went downhill from there.

 

Elway had a better team around him period. If you want to prove otherwise, please do. I just can't take your word for it, as I was watching that team back then, and this team now.

 

In the meantime, I'll be here painfully defending my team, while you sit in the closet protecting your ovaries.

I really felt for you yesterday. Your egles came so close.

 

Interesting indeed...

 

Sammy Winder rushed for over 1000 yards exactly once in that 4 year span, and never ran for more then 3.9 yards a carry...good for him in making he pro-bowl...fact is, he was an everage back...made better by the fact that teams focused on Elway, which may have opened the ground game up a tad (but obviously not much)...The Dog wonders what Manning would be doing with a ground game that was that painfully average...oh wait, yesterday was a pretty good indication, was it not?

 

and yes, defense wins championships, and denver had a quality defense...but in comparing QBs, is it not better to focus on what weapons they have on offense? Burress is superior to Johnson during that period of time...and shockey and toomer have been better weapons in that time then Watson and whoever you want to add to Denver's third receiver option if not Kay (how about Clint Sampson or Butch Johnson - boy they were stellar...)...Mark Jackson, like Vance Johnson were early in their careers as you stated, so in Elway's first four years as a QB, he had Sammy Winder (3 yards a carry) anchoring the ground game, average receivers who may have progressed following those first years, but we are only looking at those early years, and a tight end that specialized in blocking....hmmmm....interesting....Manning had access to veteran backs and receivers...

 

the bottom line is that Elway, in his first three years as a full time starter, produced records of 13-3, 11-5 and 11-5 with a SUper Bowl appearance in his fourth...

 

Again, keep going down the Eagles route if it pleases you....you would not be accurate in your conclusions, but again, whatever keeps you warm...

[Nesta]

Interesting indeed...

 

Sammy Winder rushed for over 1000 yards exactly once in that 4 year span, and never ran for more then 3.9 yards a carry...good for him in making he pro-bowl...fact is, he was an everage back...made better by the fact that teams focused on Elway, which may have opened the ground game up a tad (but obviously not much)...The Dog wonders what Manning would be doing with a ground game that was that painfully average...oh wait, yesterday was a pretty good indication, was it not?

 

and yes, defense wins championships, and denver had a quality defense...but in comparing QBs, is it not better to focus on what weapons they have on offense? Burress is superior to Johnson during that period of time...and shockey and toomer have been better weapons in that time then Watson and whoever you want to add to Denver's third receiver option if not Kay (how about Clint Sampson or Butch Johnson - boy they were stellar...)...Mark Jackson, like Vance Johnson were early in their careers as you stated, so in Elway's first four years as a QB, he had Sammy Winder (3 yards a carry) anchoring the ground game, average receivers who may have progressed following those first years, but we are only looking at those early years, and a tight end that specialized in blocking....hmmmm....interesting....Manning had access to veteran backs and receivers...

 

the bottom line is that Elway, in his first three years as a full time starter, produced records of 13-3, 11-5 and 11-5 with a SUper Bowl appearance in his fourth...

 

Again, keep going down the Eagles route if it pleases you....you would not be accurate in your conclusions, but again, whatever keeps you warm...

 

 

You said Elway had less to work with, and you have yet to prove it. You're focusing on 3 players. Does a football team have only 4? Prove your statement. I'm not gonna take your word for it.

 

And yes, this year, just about every eagles fan is denying it. Unlike the folks here. We stand by the team. Thick and thin. And it really doesn't matter if your an eagle fan or not. The fact you can't admit your team, is good enough for me. It shows you have no balls. No give me another paragraph about how 3 players make the Giants a better team than Broncos.

[ksm7]

You said Elway had less to work with, and you have yet to prove it. You're focusing on 3 players. Does a football team have only 4? Prove your statement. I'm not gonna take your word for it.

 

And yes, this year, just about every eagles fan is denying it. Unlike the folks here. We stand by the team. Thick and thin. And it really doesn't matter if your an eagle fan or not. The fact you can't admit your team, is good enough for me. It shows you have no balls. No give me another paragraph about how 3 players make the Giants a better team than Broncos.

 

umm, ok. we are looking at which QB had more to work with, correct? if so, then please re-read what has been posted over and over above...if not, then the Dog requests you clarify what you are looking for here...

 

if it suits you, then just keep attacking the Eagles...it matters not to the Dog...

[Nesta]

umm, ok. we are looking at which QB had more to work with, correct? if so, then please re-read what has been posted over and over above...if not, then the Dog requests you clarify what you are looking for here...

 

if it suits you, then just keep attacking the Eagles...it matters not to the Dog...

 

 

Yes we are dog. And the dog is completely moronic to discount what a defense means to a quarterback or the offense.

 

The dog wants to compare 3 players when there are obviously 22+ that decide the outcome of the game.

Since the dog can't put 2 and 2 together, I will oblige.

 

A defense dictates, for one, how many points a quarterback must score to win a game.

A defense dictates to an extent, for another, the offensive gameplan. If the defense has given up a 21 point lead, the quarterback must do much more than if the defense has held it's opponent to 7 points.

 

I thought that was an obvious point, but....there you go.

Now, if you cannot prove your point, without narrowing the broncos and giants down to three players, stop wasting the nesta's time.

 

Yes the eagles will do. Tell me I'm wrong dog, that if the eagles were your team, you wouldn't be denying it as you are now.

[ksm7]

Yes we are dog. And the dog is completely moronic to discount what a defense means to a quarterback or the offense.

 

The dog wants to compare 3 players when there are obviously 22+ that decide the outcome of the game.

Since the dog can't put 2 and 2 together, I will oblige.

 

A defense dictates, for one, how many points a quarterback must score to win a game.

A defense dictates to an extent, for another, the offensive gameplan. If the defense has given up a 21 point lead, the quarterback must do much more than if the defense has held it's opponent to 7 points.

 

I thought that was an obvious point, but....there you go.

Now, if you cannot prove your point, without narrowing the broncos and giants down to three players, stop wasting the nesta's time.

 

Yes the eagles will do. Tell me I'm wrong dog, that if the eagles were your team, you wouldn't be denying it as you are now.

 

Excellent...the Dog is not discounting the importance of a defense...the Dog is simply stating that Manning has had more to work with in terms of offensive weapons then Elway, which speaks to Elways need to produce offensively more so on his own then Manning...we certainly cannot debate this point without comparing the weapone they had...imagine if Elway had access to Barber in those early years, and so had a legitimate run threat and big play maker...

 

Again, the Dog is ending this here because we appear to be at an in-pass, and the Dog is quite certain that others here are uninterested in our differing views...for the record, we will leave it at this:

 

You, Nesta, are of the belief that Manning is comparable to the likes of John Elway, while the Dog believes that Manning at this stage in his career is not comparable to a QB the caliber of an Elway...

 

 

[Nesta]

Excellent...the Dog is not discounting the importance of a defense...the Dog is simply stating that Manning has had more to work with in terms of offensive weapons then Elway, which speaks to Elways need to produce offensively more so on his own then Manning...we certainly cannot debate this point without comparing the weapone they had...imagine if Elway had access to Barber in those early years, and so had a legitimate run threat and big play maker...

 

Again, the Dog is ending this here because we appear to be at an in-pass, and the Dog is quite certain that others here are uninterested in our differing views...for the record, we will leave it at this:

 

You, Nesta, are of the belief that Manning is comparable to the likes of John Elway, while the Dog believes that Manning at this stage in his career is not comparable to a QB the caliber of an Elway...

 

This isn't that hard dog. If Elways def gives up 13 points, Elway has only to score 14 to win. If Eli def gives up 21, Eli must score 22 to win. So you most certainly cannot remove the rest of the team from the equation if you're talking about who had more talent around them. It's a ridiculous argument.

And with that, Elway indeed had more talent on his team than Manning does at this point.

 

And again, you're mistaken. I'm comparing Elway's first four years with Eli's. Not their entire careers. It's easy for you to say 'the caliber of Elway' in retrospect, but in his fourth year there were still doubts about him as a quarterback. Ofcourse after his superbowl loss, there were much less, but that was after his 4th year.

 

You never answered the question. If I correctly guessed your team to be the egals, would you indeed be denying them as you are now?

 

ofcourse you would, you don't want your ovaries to be stepped on.

[BadEgg]

Eli Manning and John Elway.

 

I know some of you may chuckle at that thought, but hear me out first if you please.

 

These two guys have more in common than Kennedy and Lincoln. And I'm not even going to get into the draft and trade demands.

 

First the stats.

Elway's first four years.

               +---------------------------------------+-----------------+
                 |              Passing                  |     Rushing     |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year  TM |   G |  Comp   Att   PCT    YD   Y/A  TD INT |  Att  Yards  TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1983 den |  11 |   123   259  47.5  1663   6.4   7  14 |    28   146   1 |
| 1984 den |  15 |   214   380  56.3  2598   6.8  18  15 |    56   237   1 |
| 1985 den |  16 |   327   605  54.0  3891   6.4  22  23 |    51   253   0 |
| 1986 den |  16 |   280   504  55.6  3485   6.9  19  13 |    52   257   1 |

 

Manning's first four years.

        +---------------------------------------+-----------------+
                 |              Passing                  |     Rushing     |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year  TM |   G |  Comp   Att   PCT    YD   Y/A  TD INT |  Att  Yards  TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 2004 nyg |   9 |    95   197  48.2  1043   5.3   6   9 |     6    35   0 |
| 2005 nyg |  16 |   294   557  52.8  3762   6.8  24  17 |    29    80   1 |
| 2006 nyg |  16 |   301   522  57.7  3244   6.2  24  18 |    25    21   0 |
| 2007 nyg |   9 |   168   283  59.4  1820   6.4  14  11 |    15    41   1 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

 

Note the similarities in yds, cmp%, yds per att, and ints. About the only difference between the two is Elway's rushing abilities, and the fact Manning has thrown more TD's and fewer INT's.

 

Now everyone knows that Elway was hot in the 4th qtr and in the red zone, but few realize that Manning has that same trait. Though we're all disappointed with Manning's overall qb rating and completion percentage (just as Denver fans were by Elway's) we should be more impressed with his 4th quarter play and his abilities when in the short field.

Examples:

Manning's fourth qtr qb rating is incredibly higher than his overall, and has been since his 2nd year.

His 92.9 rating in the 4th shows that Eli gets better as the game progresses and that's a sign of a great qb.

Eli's 5 4th qtr TD's puts him in company with his brother, Hasselbeck, Romo, Brees, and Warner.

 

But Manning's play inside the opponents 20 tells the real tale.

In the area of the field where most qb's have a lower completion %, Eli's spikes.

Inside the 20 Manning is only inferior to Brady and Brees. His 64.1% is 3rd in the NFL.

Inside the 10 his 62.5% is equal to Palmer's and better than Peyton, Romo, Bulger, Favre, and Brady to name a few.

 

These were all early traits of one John Elway, as well as the low completion %, and the high INT's.

 

In 86, Elway's 3rd year, he lead what is known today as 'the drive', leading his team 98 yards in 5 mins to tie the Browns and eventually beat them in overtime.

In 06, Manning's 3rd year, he lead the team to overcome a 24-7 deficit in the 4th qtr, driving in the last 58 seconds for the game tying fg, and eventual overtime victory against the eagles.

 

You naysayers may bring up the fact that Elway made it to the superbowl his 4th year, and to that all I can say is defense. Elway had one. So far the closest thing to a defense Eli has had would be called 'swiss cheese'. This year isn't yet over and so far Manning has stood toe to toe with Elway as far as playoff contention.

 

I know today's game is faster paced, and players get dumped and replaced quicker than in Elway's day, but I would hate to throw away a future superbowl MVP and HOF qb, just because he had growing pains as Elway did.

Think about it. Elway is the only qb to start in the superbowl 5 times. And he won twice. What kind of laughing stock would the Broncos be today had they dumped/traded him after year 4?

 

Patience kids. Patience.

 

**Edited out the orange crush line. Technically the 80's Broncos defense were not the 'orange crush' but they were formidible and nasty just the same.

 

I just can't resist this thread anymore. Comparing Eli to Elway is laughable, especially after yesterday. Did you know that Qunicy Carter had a higher completion percentage in each of his first 4 years than Eli? Did you know his yards per completion was higher in 3 of the 4 years. Quincy didn't have the running backs that either Denver or the Giants have. Quincy has also won as many playoff games as Eli. I guess, based on these key statitstics, we can conclude, with certainty, that Eli is either going to be a hall of fame QB, like Elway, or a Canadian league reject, like Quincy...

 

Or better yet, maybe Qunicy can still be a Hall of Famer. Maybe the Giants should give him a tryout, based on those yards per completion and completion percentage stats.

 

Anyone who watched Elway knows that he had the ability to improvise and make things happen when his blocking broke down. And Elway rarely looked as poor as Eli looked yesterday and has looked throughout his career. His mechanics are awful at this stage of his career. Throwing off his back foot. Taking sacks when he could throw it away. Tipped balls. When the pressure comes, Eli folds. Time and time again.

 

Eli was playing the worst pass defense in the entire league yesterday! Regardless of who had the better supporting cast, Eli has enough weapons that he should NEVER look as bad as he did yesterday. He should have also been able to bury the Detriot pass defense, and should have played better against Dallas. The sacks he took late in the second quarter of the Dallas game were a gift.

 

And comparing a regular season game in Philly to the Drive in Cleveland? That's insulting.

 

 

[fringe]

I just can't resist this thread anymore. Comparing Eli to Elway is laughable, especially after yesterday. Did you know that Qunicy Carter had a higher completion percentage in each of his first 4 years than Eli? Did you know his yards per completion was higher in 3 of the 4 years. Quincy didn't have the running backs that either Denver or the Giants have. Quincy has also won as many playoff games as Eli. I guess, based on these key statitstics, we can conclude, with certainty, that Eli is either going to be a hall of fame QB, like Elway, or a Canadian league reject, like Quincy...

 

Or better yet, maybe Qunicy can still be a Hall of Famer. Maybe the Giants should give him a tryout, based on those yards per completion and completion percentage stats.

 

Anyone who watched Elway knows that he had the ability to improvise and make things happen when his blocking broke down. And Elway rarely looked as poor as Eli looked yesterday and has looked throughout his career. His mechanics are awful at this stage of his career. Throwing off his back foot. Taking sacks when he could throw it away. Tipped balls. When the pressure comes, Eli folds. Time and time again.

 

Eli was playing the worst pass defense in the entire league yesterday! Regardless of who had the better supporting cast, Eli has enough weapons that he should NEVER look as bad as he did yesterday. He should have also been able to bury the Detriot pass defense, and should have played better against Dallas. The sacks he took late in the second quarter of the Dallas game were a gift.

 

And comparing a regular season game in Philly to the Drive in Cleveland? That's insulting.

you're right, elway was arguably the best ever. i think what nesta is alluding to is that with most, it takes time for greatness to develop. while i don't expect eli to reach elway status, i also don't expect him to reach down to the depths of quincy carter. he's a QB we can win with when he's throwing accurately.

 

now you should go prepare for getting your asses whupped by the Packers.

 

[Nesta]

I just can't resist this thread anymore. Comparing Eli to Elway is laughable, especially after yesterday. Did you know that Qunicy Carter had a higher completion percentage in each of his first 4 years than Eli? Did you know his yards per completion was higher in 3 of the 4 years. Quincy didn't have the running backs that either Denver or the Giants have. Quincy has also won as many playoff games as Eli. I guess, based on these key statitstics, we can conclude, with certainty, that Eli is either going to be a hall of fame QB, like Elway, or a Canadian league reject, like Quincy...

 

Or better yet, maybe Qunicy can still be a Hall of Famer. Maybe the Giants should give him a tryout, based on those yards per completion and completion percentage stats.

 

Anyone who watched Elway knows that he had the ability to improvise and make things happen when his blocking broke down. And Elway rarely looked as poor as Eli looked yesterday and has looked throughout his career. His mechanics are awful at this stage of his career. Throwing off his back foot. Taking sacks when he could throw it away. Tipped balls. When the pressure comes, Eli folds. Time and time again.

 

Eli was playing the worst pass defense in the entire league yesterday! Regardless of who had the better supporting cast, Eli has enough weapons that he should NEVER look as bad as he did yesterday. He should have also been able to bury the Detriot pass defense, and should have played better against Dallas. The sacks he took late in the second quarter of the Dallas game were a gift.

 

And comparing a regular season game in Philly to the Drive in Cleveland? That's insulting.

 

Elway never played a bad game. He was a Hof from day one.

In case you read nothing but the title, I acknowledged Elway's mobility, and this is merely a comparison of the twos first four years. In which, Elway was sacked many more times and lost many more fumbles as well.

 

And Eli does indeed have a running game and bigger threat at wr, which would account for more scores.

Meanwhile Elway had the better defense, which would account for more wins.

 

The drive in Cleveland required elway to drive down the field once. Eli had to do it 4 times in Philly.

So you're right, it's not a fair comparison.

[Sephiroth]

Elway never played a bad game. He was a Hof from day one. rolleyes.gif

 

nesta, clear this up for me from the other thread. Is this "putting words in someone's mouth to make a point?" And if so... does that make you a "little bitch?"

 

Just wondering.

[Nesta]

nesta, clear this up for me from the other thread. Is this "putting words in someone's mouth to make a point?" And if so... does that make you a "little bitch?"

 

Just wondering.

 

Nah, that role is already taken. Now get me some coffee bitch.

 

And Elway rarely looked as poor as Eli looked yesterday and has looked throughout his career.

[ksm7]

Elway never played a bad game. He was a Hof from day one.

In case you read nothing but the title, I acknowledged Elway's mobility, and this is merely a comparison of the twos first four years. In which, Elway was sacked many more times and lost many more fumbles as well.

 

And Eli does indeed have a running game and bigger threat at wr, which would account for more scores.

Meanwhile Elway had the better defense, which would account for more wins.

 

The drive in Cleveland required elway to drive down the field once. Eli had to do it 4 times in Philly.

So you're right, it's not a fair comparison.

 

oh dear - the Dog was all set to let this thread go, but then to reiterate that Manning's comeback was superior to arguably the best comeback moment in NFL history is disturbing...yes, Manning drove the team back a number of times from a greater deficit, and no doubt it was a great comeback...but to do so against an average team (the Eagles are and were an average team) in week 3 of the season as oppossed to driving 98 yards in four minutes in rough whether conditions on the road in a champioship game against the number one seeded team in the AFC that year is far superior a situation...the Dog wonders, 25 years from now, when asked to list the best comeback moments in NFL history, how many people would choose the Manning comeback in week 3 of the Eagles game as oppossed to the Elway drive in the AFC championship? Probably just you, and the Mannings...or at least Eli and his daddy...Peyton is too smart for that...

[Nesta]

[/b]

 

oh dear - the Dog was all set to let this thread go, but then to reiterate that Manning's comeback was superior to arguably the best comeback moment in NFL history is disturbing...yes, Manning drove the team back a number of times from a greater deficit, and no doubt it was a great comeback...but to do so against an average team (the Eagles are and were an average team) in week 3 of the season as oppossed to driving 98 yards in four minutes in rough whether conditions on the road in a champioship game against the number one seeded team in the AFC that year is far superior a situation...the Dog wonders, 25 years from now, when asked to list the best comeback moments in NFL history, how many people would choose the Manning comeback in week 3 of the Eagles game as oppossed to the Elway drive in the AFC championship? Probably just you, and the Mannings...or at least Eli and his daddy...Peyton is too smart for that...

 

Ofcourse you were gonna let it go. You raised a ridiculous argument that I in turn shoved up your vag.

 

And I am not alluding that manning's feat is a greater one than Elways, only that it shouldn't be brushed aside as paltry. the 'unfair comparison' is tongue in cheek.

 

Yes doggy, the egals are average. This year. Last year their pass d was 9th. Is that average?

[ksm7]

Ofcourse you were gonna let it go. You raised a ridiculous argument that I in turn shoved up your vag.

 

And I am not alluding that manning's feat is a greater one than Elways, only that it shouldn't be brushed aside as paltry. the 'unfair comparison' is tongue in cheek.

 

Yes doggy, the egals are average. This year. Last year their pass d was 9th. Is that average?

 

Fair enough...we agree to disagree on the subject...as for the Eagles pass defense, the Dog is pretty sure their defensive productivity increased when they made the surge mid to late season...the Dog would be naive to discount Manning's comeback...it was just that when you compared them in the same sentence, and then later said it was an unfair comparison because Manning had to bring them back from a greater deficit, the Dog assumed you were suggesting that is was a superior feat...all in the interpretation...

 

 

[Nesta]

Certainly looks like an even comparison now wouldn't you say?