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Yes I see you do not like Antonio Pierce, that still does not mask the fact that Kevin Lewis was nothing more than backup fodder getting too much PT back in 2004....

Ryan Church just traded for Jeff Franceour...... ehhhh, both about the same I guess.

Simply watching that game you might say they are not that bad. This was also a defense that did not blitz very much, yet they still gave up huge plays in the passing game. I do not think remembering these two is based on this game, its the collection of the body of work. Both were on that 2002 team that collapsed in San Fran and quite frankly both were not very good. Average at best. Our current Cb's are SO much better than these two. Moot point. And BTW Kevin Lewis was garbage, no business starting 16 games at MLB that year but he was the best they had. He was so mediocre that upon his release he had ZERO games played elsewhere until injuries ravaged the 2005 team and they brought him in, wearing #44

Funny thats the thought process I used when David Ortiz started to hit homers....you might be onto something there

fixed j/k I'm such a child and could not help myself forgive me....

So I clicked on the NFLN the other night and rewatched a game, Big Ben vs ELI from late in the year 2004 one week(6 days actually) after a young ELI had his 0.00 rating day vs the Ravens. Anyway couple of things stuck out to me. That may have been the day that ELI was able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. He was coming off that awful week, facing Big Ben who was undefeated as a starter at that point and was hearing all the crap. He played very well that day(better than Ben in fact) and showed that Eli unflappable demenor that we all now know. One thing, he is such a better QB now, they completely simplified things for him that day and watching him now its like night and day. Our O line consisted of a man named Winey and Whittle and quite frankly I always like Jason Whittle but he was really not any good, at least as compared to this line. The overall depth was garbage. Kevin Lewis was the starting MLB, Kendrick Allen and Lance Legree anchored up front, while a man named Hollowell played significant time at LB. All players that on todays team would be lucky to even make the practice squad. Tim Lewis was awful, just plain awful. The Wills could not cover or catch a cold. We've come a long way baby...thats for sure. Thankfully.

Jerry Manuel in ST "Yeah playa, Murph done be my bestest hitter against lefties as a lefty, he done be even better than Ryan Church and Church be gangsta". I want that Jerry

Jerry Manuel in ST "Yeah playa, Murph done be my bestest hitter against lefties as a lefty, he done be even better than Ryan Church and Church be gangsta". I want

Jerry Manuel in ST "Yeah playa, Murph done be my bestest hitter against lefties as a lefty, he done be even better than Ryan Church and Church be gangsta". I want that

There was a scathing article in yesterdays Ny Daily News about the Mets farm system. I cannot reiterate it enough, this franchise from top to bottom is suffering from what happened in 2007. It happened to the Phils post 64 and is happening now to the Mets. What we are contemplating now should have in essence been done 2 years ago. A real indictment of Omar Minaya here, enjoy the read if you don't first.... Adam Rubin

Hey your team is pretty damn good, happy to see that.

the Mets would lose Delgado, Reyes, Beltran, Putz and Maine and get nothing out of Ollie Perez all year and on July 4th were still only 1.5 games out would you have asked me what type of drugs I use or figured I went completely dellusional? How about if I said the Mets would lose a game on a 27th dropped out pop up to the Yanks, would lose a game because a guy did not touch 3rd base and would lose when a guy decides for some reason not to slide into home? Think about it, all the bullshit and this mess of a team is 1.5 out as of the start of tonights Phils game. I think here is what we know....they need Perez and Maine to be what they can be, Nieve and Redding are ok, but they are what they are. We need these guys back and we need them good, particularly Perez. They need 2 of the big 3 out back and back 100%, we are talking perennial all stars here. The role players have played admirably, but these are big guns, they need 2 of them back and probably all 3 at some point to really have a chance. Things could be worse. My prediction they win 2 of 3 in Philly and wake up Monday morning right in the thick of things 1 week away from the AS break and hopefully some good health on the horizon and a deal or two to be made.

IMO the Omar Minaya watch is on. The lack of a farm system and any prospects worth a damn under his watch is glaring. Any GM can spend money and sign Beltran, Krod, Pedro, etc. or make a no brainer deal like JOhan and hand him 140 mil. The good ones keep churning out players in the low levels and above. To see the Mets awful minor league situation all you need to do is look at the records of the AAA Buff Mets and the AA Bing Mets.....its disgusting. This is on Omar.....

This man cannot stay healthy throwing 100 pitches every 5th day, its a tax on his arm, what makes us think he could pitch 3-4 days and 80-90 pitches in that time over a 4 day span. Guys injury prone, thats it.

Guys I hate to say it, we need to just sit back and let whatever happens happen. This team is a)not very good with or without their big players and b)has ZERo in terms of tradeable chips. Imo the best trade option might be Beltran. Its not even being pessimistic, because at this point what has happened to this team is ridiculous in terms of injuries its just how it is. I think the Mets have to concentrate on having the best arms and as athletic a team as they can have. Trading older guys for prospects, although not ideal for a 140 mil payroll team in a new ballpark is the longterm goal this franchise has to take.

Do you know that the Mets, in this juiced ball, juiced player, watered down pitching era have not had a corner outfielder produce a 100 rbi season since Bernard Gilkey in 1996? Yes the Mets spend money on latin scouting, but how good has it been? Outside Reyes has it really paid off? Obviously the jury if still out on Fmart, but one thing I will say the organization seems to not stress is fundamentals, watching a 20 year old kid not run out a pop up is mind boggling to me on any level. Nonetheless it would be nice to stay at .500, but sadly this team just cannot compete day in and day out with this roster.

Wow, I actually read this entire thread.

Give me all the big names you want to sign, when you have a minor league system that outside of Wright and Reyes has not produced a decent player(unless you want to count Jason Bay?) in 20 years what can you expect when 3 of your 4 top players are hurt? This is an idictment of the team top to bottom and one has to wonder what the Wilpons spend on scouting in relation to other teams. Bottom line you can spend like the Red Sox and Yanks and Phils, but when you spend like the bottoms feeders on scouting eventually it will show. Can you imagine ANY other MLB team even having Argenis Reyes in AA?

This teams inability to get any length out of their starters outside Livan and Santana is killing the pen. Parnell has clearly started to get his rookie come uppings, but the rest of the pen is overworked day and and day out. BTW, when does Minaya start feeling the heat here?

You know not for nothing, but if I told you the Mets would lose Reyes AND Delgado for extended time begining in May, would lose JJ Puts for 2-3 months, would get nothing from Ollie Perez, would lose John Maine to the DL, would lose Church for a few weeks, Daniel Murphy would be hitting 238 on June 17th and they would have no one on the roster with over 10 homers. How many games would you say they were out? 10? 12? Its time we start giving Manuel some credit. I am not crazy about the man and think he is too forgiving of many of the mental errors this team makes, 3 of which come to mind that actually cost them wins. With all that said they are 3 out. If I am a Phillies fan when you consider what they have gotten from some of key guys besides the big 3 and the Mets are in the state they are in I would be very frustrated(not with my team)but with the fact the Mets are hanging in. 3 out with what has occured is a minor miracle at this point. As for guys to get, go get Huff, hes versatile and does not create controversy when and if Delgado comes back as he can play the OF and add a nice little rotation with Sheff, Church and can spell Delgado late in games for defense. Its gonna be interesting how this team uses this time as a confidence booster as to what they could really do when at full strength.

You know this friggin team does show some heart. Albeit last night was brutal, but thats a brutal loss no matter who you are playing. To come out today and win that game behind a AAA pitcher showed me something. Say what you will but this team plays for Jerry and despite missing 2 of their best 4 players they continue to stay in it. Some points I think need to be made. Although I will not annoint him as anything more than a backup, Santos should be the I will not say EVERYDAY catcher but the MAJORITY catcher. He plays hard. Reminds me a bit of what the Phils found in Chris Coste a few years back. I am not a big Church fan, but hes healthy, let him play RF the MAJORITY of the time. Correctly spot Sheff, bastard can hit when healthy, but needs his rest play him 5 of 7 games or 4 of 7 depending on matchups. Let Murphy play 1b. SOB has a good infield glove and I believe if you can get Church going some and maybe Reed spelling Sheff to keep him healthy you can let Murphy just work his way through his ups and downs. Say whatever you want about Wright, motherfer can hit. I have never felt he was a home run hitter and maybe Citi has made him change his approach some. I prefer 360 18-20 and 100 with all the steals over 290 30 and 100. He has been clutch too. Sean Green seems to have found his way, the ground ball ability is key. I am starting to like what I see, even from this undermanned bunch. They play hard and lets face it are dealing with losses to personnel that would cripple most teams in the majors. I would like to see less mental errors and maybe some sort of accountabilty on the players part for them, but all in all they have shown me something, especially today. No matter what happens tomorrow they are staying afloat.

:lol:

thank you for clearing that up AJ, I never have thought that Ibanez was overrated, in fact I think he and Abreu were the best options for the Mets this off season and am very bitter we did not sign him. Ggirl I do hate the Phils, but I respect them and know they are a good team, probably one of the top 3 in baseball and like I said if they get a front line starter look out. As for the Mets, if we can stay in it until health/reinforcements permit we have the look at the very least of a team that shows grit. Plus we have Johan and KROD, the best starter and closer in the NL.

In all honesty think about this, the Mets are missing huge offensive numbers with Delgado and Reyes out. Forget Delgado and his 100 runs and 115 rbis, but Reyes changes how you pitch to this ENTIRE lineup, especially when he is on base. The 2 -5 hitters see better pitches when he is on and the 6-9 hitters do as well as teams do not want to put runners on and have him drive in runs from the leadoff spot. The Mets sorely miss him, from top to bottom. As for Ibanez, I would be happy if he were a Met and had 12 homers and 40 rbis and a 290 average. Omar needs to get a thumper and if he does Jerry needs to let Murphy play 1B everyday. I think its clear Tatis best abilities are playing once every three days. Manuel gets some credit for piecing this together, but the Mets need some sort of presence in this lineup other than Wright and Beltran.

They own us, simple as that. They have better players, tougher players and an overall more potent lineup. What more is there to say? The Mets need to start coming to the realization that they are gonna have to stay aflot till they get back reyes or delgado or add a bat and fight for the WC. This Phils team is not gonna relinquich the NL east this year and heaven help us when they add another starter. The case has been rested on Ibanez, guy has not missed a game in 3 years, is good for 30 homers and 100 rbis every year and can hit, even in citifield. No use talking about that one anymore.