Dragon

16 minutes ago, Sephiroth said:

It's my understanding that he was offered less guaranteed money, but with much more incentives.  I think that is more than fair given his very extensive injury history, and the fact that he's also proven to be ineffective when playing dinged up.  Why would the team pay additional guaranteed money compared to two years on a tag without a guarantee that you're getting extra in performance and games played?  That just sounds like bad business to me.  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.  

Yea idk where that info came from. The story out is that the most we offered was $19.5M until like 2 days before the deadline to negotiate and then Schoen upped the guarantees to just over $22M but dropped the AAV. 

We're really only disagreeing cause from Saquon's pov there's no reason to accept anything less in guarantees than the sum of the 2 tags as there's no one else on the team that should be tagged over him next off-season, so at least $22M, but the FO had other views. 

Long story short, this is a gamble for both sides and I hope it works out in everyone's favor cause the last thing any of us want to see is Saquon leaving pissed and going right to Philly where he'd have the best OL in football. 

5 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

This is the one thing I want to see next year. Kelce fucking owned him in the playoffs.

I want Lawrence to have at least one big game against Kelce think season. Fuck that guy.

And I think we will def see an improvement. Who knows how much playing the amount of snaps he did had a negative impact on Dex. This year (fingers crossed) with more and BETTER depth, Dex will be fresh for more of the season and leave Kelce and Hurts wondering wtf happened a few times. 

4 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

How has he not been offered his value?  He already earned the top rookie RB contract money and had two great seasons, and three mediocre-to-bad ones.  He finished in the top ten in scrimmage yards twice in that time period.

Those rookie contracts are locked in;  if I was Shoen I wouldn't be basing my contract negotiations off the Falcons' bad drafting strategy.

Jesus Seph...  he was offered UNDER the total guarantees for the 2 franchise tags for the majority of the negotiations. That's the baseline which, oddly enough, is $400k more than Robinson's rookie contract. Locked in for the rookies or not, the starting point for negotiations is right there and no less than that. Why would anyone in that position accept less? Or are you advocating for the next newhire straight out of college to come in to your job and equal/surpass your salary despite the disparity in experience?

I'm guessing you're calling 2019 one of his "mediocre" years? You don't believe that DJ taking over at QB and turning the ball over as much as he did wasn't a part of everyone's performance being down? And yet in that "mediocre" year Barkley still went over 1000 rushing and 1400 from scrimmage with 8 TDs on 83 less touches than his top 2 statistical seasons. To state again... those Judge years aside (2020 ACL Injury/2021 ACL Recovery and High Ankle Sprain) he averages 1707 yards from scrimmage and 11 TDs. All with a piss poor offensive line and a coaching philosophy that just hit the 21st century in Spring 2022. This should've been simple. 

4 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

Schefter put out a tweet.

There hasn't been a RB to sign a long term contract worth 10 million or more since 2021 with Chubb.  

 

Check social media. It won't amount to much with the CBA not coming up for a while but the RBs around the NFL are all collectively pissed and voicing it. 

10 minutes ago, BlueInCanada said:

From everything I've read he was offered all three contracts that went down in value every time.

What did he think would happen?

 

Depends on what was actually offered. Ima keep harping on the Corey Davis number and the fact that despite the aav being lower, Bijan Robinson getting more guaranteed than Saquon was offered for the majority of the negotiation process. 

7 minutes ago, Virginia Giant said:

Blame the league. It’sa Shame the rb position has gone so undervalued. My childhood memories are built around guys like Barry sanders, Emmit smith, Thurman Thomas, etc. wouldn’t be the same and not sure the nfl without those types of players is fun. But as a Gm you can’t break a trend like this and be stuck with a huge contract for a position the league isn’t paying like that. While they’re paying other positions we suddenly can’t afford. It sucks, and honestly I think Saquon and Jacob’s are doing the right thing. They just don’t have much leverage. 

If $2m increases on the aav and guarantees are breaking the bank when the cap is going up over $50m in the next 2 years idk what to say about this situation anymore. 

21 minutes ago, The P said:

 

Well... Daboll's bonehead move last year was Adoree Jackson on punt returns. Guess Schoen needed to match his stupidity once. Still sure he was the right choice for GM but that doesn't mean I'm gonna agree with every move he makes. This was stupid. And all over $2M. 

Welp... as he said... it is what it is. I think this is a mistake, but I'm just a fan. 

And again... in 3 years the cap is gonna be near $300M with only 1 of our key free agents coming up for a deal in that timespan. By the time guys like Neal and KT are up for new deals, a 4 year deal for Barkley will be over.

2 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

I like Barkley, but he's always injured. I'm not a fan of throwing bad money at good... he has a value, offer him his value, and if he refuses let him walk.  Dude's not a savior;  if he was we wouldn't have had losing seasons 4 out of the 5 years he's been here. 

Only 1 season he's played less than 13 games and that's cause you can't play on a torn acl.

There... right there is the problem. He hasn't been offered his value. He's been offered LESS guaranteed money than the top rookie RB contract. That's less than the 2 franchise tags. Why would anyone take that?

Be serious. You don't even believe that. 

I had a long conversation with some ppl while I was at work about this. Let's take Corey Davis and use him as an example here. He's averaging 656 yards from scrimmage and just under 3 TDs per year for his career with a big outlier year in 2020. Saquon even when including 2 injury riddled years is averaging 1200+ and just over 7 TDs. Ignore 2020 and 2021 and you have him averaging 1700+ and 11 TDs. Idc about anyone buzzwords (positional value)... there's no way you're gonna tell me Corey Davis is worth paying more than Saquon Barkley is.  

2 hours ago, gmenroc said:

Or he doesn't sign, sits out, makes 0, and ruins his career.

Giants are in much better shape in 2023 without Barkley than Barkley is without the Giants.

Say what you want about reality, but that's what it is.  Life isn't fair.

While this is true, we're more likely to see DJ struggle without Barkley than with him, and then we've potentially wasted even more time and money as an organization. It's a simple fix. Stop lowballing and pay the fn man that's kept this organization even remotely relevant the past 5 years while we've been dicking around with a shitshow FO and even worse coaching staffs instead of acting like he ain't worth it now that we have some kind of competency in both regards. With the cap going up as astronomically as its projected to over the next 3-4 years (read $256M in 2024, $275M in 2025 and so on...) this should be a no-brainer, but everyone seems to think that paying Barkley will make us some kinda poverty stricken franchise and that's just asinine. 

Positional value shouldn't cause this much of a discrepancy between a top 5 RB in the NFL and a WR 2/3 on any given roster. 

1 hour ago, gmenroc said:

 

Again..offer could be much more than the guaranteed portion ..say 13-14mil per year over 3 or 4 years.  This is one of those situations where I am not faulting either side for coming to the table with heels dug in a bit.  Both have valid arguements for what they want

I am def faulting someone. Even if the aav is $13-14M... if the best you can do on the guaranteed side is $3.5M less than a rookie deal (Bijan gettin $21.96M guaranteed on his rookie contract), I'd feel disrespected too especially if the report of the Giants wanting it to be a 3 year contract is true. That means Schoen isn't willing to commit more than a guaranteed $6.33M/year to a top 3-4 RB in the NFL and one of the primary reasons our QB is so damn effective at the play action and read option. 

55 minutes ago, gmenroc said:

I think that 19m refers to the guaranteed portion over 2 years.

Meaning Schoen... knowing the value of the franchise tag over this year and next... decided to lowball Saquon. Idc how ppl feel about the value of the RB position... that was bs if true. 

If that was the offer I'm 1000% on Barkley's side. No way in hell I'm accepting a deal worth less than the 2 tags. 

Need him to save some of those for Jason Kelce. 

Still on the side that this goes down to the wire regardless of whether it's contentious or not. The issue here is that there are 2 other RBs on franchise tags as well and while I don't think Pollard is much of an issue, Jacobs def is. If Saquon's agent accepts ANY deal rn and the Raiders lose their collective minds and pay Jacobs like $18M/year or something, she's gonna look incompetent and she can't afford that. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the deal was damn near finished, but they were waiting to see if any other team caves on their deals. 

9 hours ago, BronxRik said:

Dude should take a page from Cousins. He played on, what, 2 tags in Washington? It's guaranteed money, all of it. Then he goes and gets an $86 million fully guaranteed contract?

He's using $100 bills for kindling in Minny. 

I mean... if that were a viable option for a RB I'd agree with you. 2 more years of wear and tear on his body and he ain't getting shit. He needs to be secured now and Schoen needs to pay the man. 4 years $52-56M w/$30M guaranteed. Put the majority of the guaranteed money in the first 2 years, throw in some incentives for the tail end of the contract and maybe a void year to manipulate the cap. Play with a good soldier like Barkley and you show every free agent that you can't be trusted. 

Fuck em. Hope he remembers that when he's coming over the middle next time we play KC. 

Idt he signs before the deadline. Both sides are gonna take it down to the wire. On top of that if Josh Jacobs signs before Saquon does he'd basically set the floor for a Saquon deal so they may be waiting on that too. 

19 hours ago, TaylorBanksCarsonVanPelt said:

I hear all of that.  In the end... Toney needed a full dose of Daboll, Parcell, Coughlin... even Fassell would have all collectively kicked his ass and got him motivated.  People forget that peeps got on Parcells for giving LT carte blanche.  I agreed with Parcells, you have a guy (arguably the best ever) who changes the game... and physically gets the Giants into the playoffs and two Superbowl's... you let him do what he wants within reason short of rape and murder.

Add taking loaded guns with no safety on them into LQ and I agree. Lol.

I've been seeing someone float this around on Twitter. 4 years $56M w/ $28M guaranteed. I'm no cap expert especially with the advent of void years and all the different incentives that could change a contract and hit at different times, but if Schoen somehow manages to finesse the first 2 years of that so that no guaranteed money is on the cap for years 3 and 4, how would everyone feel?

Questions we and Schoen need to ask ourselves when evaluating Saquon are... how effective would DJ be with Breida, Gray and Brightwell as his only backs vs with Saquon? How much does Saquon help DJ thrive? How many games do we lose last year without Saquon? I know the narrative is don't pay the RB, but the cap is going up significantly over the next 2 years and considering how GMs can manipulate numbers to be favorable and fit under the cap no matter what the AAV is... PAY THE MAN. 

3 hours ago, Sephiroth said:

Neal's gotta make the jump this year.  I sure hope he does. 

You and me both. Between the injury and him just having trouble adjusting to speed rushers it looked bad, but according to social media he hasn't stopped working all off-season.