Gspotter

It's amusing that you dog out Shockey, just amusing and very telling. It's funn that your frame of reference for QB'g is Big Ben, your frame of reference for TE's is Bavaro, and on and on. This (ladies and gentlemen) is the reason why Madden has made little monsters out of the young consumer. Too much time playing with the All-Madden team (a ficitional unit I might add) has made little, loud-mouthed GM's who don't recall the realities of the pre-salary cap days. This is also the same group that see free agency as a means to build Frankenteam: this is just silly, please put down your controllers and really, really watch some football.

Marty, Good to hear from you as well. Hope things in your neck of the woods are going smoothly. Jakk and I corresponded off-line once or twice and he said he's on to baseball until there's something to talk about: seemed like a nice enough fellow, despite that plethora of anti-KC venom that the other MB was forced to endure. No we have it again with Eli. Everyone gets too wrapped up in his flaws. I think your assessment is correct: he's asked to throw a significant amount and more importantly, at critical moments. Eli will be fine and he needs to improve, that's all there is to it. I agree with you that a strong D and less of an emphasis on Eli will sharpen him up. It's a lot to ask of a QB and comparing him to Big Ben is a little bit of apples to oranges considering Pitts personnel, coaching, and the maturity of many key players in that system compared to the second season with the G's offense and the (again) changing OL. I hope ELi's throwing and mechanics improve, I can live with the ocassional batted ball and less frequent interception, but the wounded ducks are what gets everyone on this MB worried. So what's worse, a lesser armed Eli or a strong armed Collins? I mean, arguing for a Big Ben like experience is silly since it's such a rarity that early in a career.

I don't mind him for the right price, but I doubt that we'll see a valuable trade off. I don't want to overlook him, but there are other intangibles that concern me, such as does he fit in the TC mold? As for his injuries, well that's life and he's not debilitated. I still doubt that we'll get him because he's too much for too little and teams like the Dolphins will jump at the chance to put a name player on the aging D.

I have to say that there are times that I think Eli stands in the pocket and shows some distinct bravery. I like that in him and believe in that type of QB. I also think that we'll know a lot about him after this season. Money may be correct that he could be a Trent Green type of guy. I'm not going to get too concerned yet, though we've all seen the ducks, the bad decisions, etc. We've seen this before and it can work itself out, we just need a short leash. I agree that EA went nuts for Eli and I wouldn't have made the same move, but then we might still be dealing with Collins and I don't think that would have made anyone else happy. Of course, if we go further into post season and Eli performs better then nobody can claim him as a bad deal. That's a long way to go though, especially in a much more competitive NFC East.

I think (in the end) we're all in the same boat: high hopes, a reasonable amount of concern, and the desire to erase that last SB from our minds. Nothing would thrill me more than for my son to grow up with a reliable leader in Eli the way I felt about Phil. Those are big shoes to fill and so I think we'll know all we need to know about Eli by the end of this season. In the same way I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, I also don't want to hold on as long as we did with Collins and even Dave Brown. A lot, however, will depend on the run game and the further development of our offensive scheme and receiving core.

No need to be alarmed, yes John Elway and Marino were great improvisors, but Eli does play very well when he maintains proper technique. He's young and only now can we call him experienced. If he falters, then we'll know soon. if he thrives, then we'll know that he was still green. I've seen what you all saw and the most important part is still the winning attitude like we saw against Dever. He's a maturing leader who needs to improve. As for throwing out the baby with the bath water, well, I'll side with Bill Walsh who said, "show me a QB's footwork and I'll tell you whether that team won the game or not!"

The Internet is a funny place where men, boys, and probably 4 girls total get together to talk and sign in with multiple names and talk shit. It's the biggest waste ever. It's almost like Public Access: a noble idea where open communication could be had by all free of advertising, now populated by Star Trek geeks, light porn, and the ocassional environmentalist.

This is my new favorite gag on the Mb

I'd pick an Eli, Shockey, or Plaxico-like player

420, I have to say, I almost look forward to your new pics each week and GTAS is a classic. That's one of my favorite characters from way back. I recall he was actually a teacher in NYC or something like that...plus it's nice for Lockhart to see his real father.

Thanks 420 and happy holidays, your big day is upon us in just over a week. I realize that other pro teams won't be visiting our weight room per se, however it's interesting that our own players find it so much more competitive. I have to wonder what that means for the way that things are done. In Fassel's era (all the nautilus machines and heavy injuries). Now our injuries are down, but still the off-season banter goes on. My thought is that it's fine, yes Marvin Harrison and Peyton are great, but they haven't won the big one by just being together. Also, with all the Faux Four's blubbering, did Ben win because he and Hines Ward spent every minute of the off-season together? My thinks "no."

Any real Giants fan should dislike the Eagles (if not) hate them. this is where the true discussion lies, we needn't be (as Parcells put it: subversive from within). We are what we are until we're something else. So, for the time being, we're in the position of defending the NFC East title and fighting off the nonsense of fans like those of the Eagles who have conveniently forgotten that they haven't won the big one and only dominated while much of the East was so weak that it wasn't much to win it and slide into a favorable playoff position...and yet they blew it time and time again.

While the Faux Four pull out their butt plugs, I applaud Shockey for working out at a place known for it. if the Faux Four knew football, perhaps they'd consider the problem with people (universally) trusting the Hurricane's strength program and not the Giants. Perhaps the appropriate target of all this cry-baby, bullshit would be our own program and why it's not where people flock to?

Is this the same D4P from the other MB? These postings are a sorry attempt to instigate from a guy who's team is from a city committed to losing. If it is the same person, then you must have gotten soft, your former incarnation was much more clever. If not, then you are a sorry attempt at the person I enjoyed as D4P. This thread is dopey but then again this MB seems to be a haven for this type of brain fart. Am I missing anything?

Can you imagine our team without the energy that comes from #80? I wouldn't want to imagine it and furthermore, I wish that TC would let him get stoked up again. I think it brought the crowd alive and (clearly) we're not getting that type of crowd roar from our other TE.

Shockey: no heart, selfish, bad hands All of this because he's played tough, no plays through injuries, and dropped only a couple of critical balls that would have helped us. Jeremy doesn't not play alone dipshits, your team puts you in position to win. EA must puke when 3rd grade Madden franchise fags tell him what he should do with the team.... I'm further troubled by the prospect of these loud voice being able to vote before they're able to think...

Arguing that Shockey is a liability is comical. The proponents of this view must not have paid close attention to the Howard Cross years: reliable, slow, mostly a blocker, not an offensive weapon. Instead, the Faux four looks at the Shockey for his minimal, but critical mistakes. As if the glory years of the Giants didn't include Simms' passes being batted at the line, Joe Morris fumbling, or LT missing a tackle. I've seen it all and now that the Faux Four post so often, now I've heard it all. Let's get rid of the most exciting and often productive player on our roster: a guy who led our team in receptions just a season or so ago. It is proof that I can look at the color blue with some people and they're seeing something else entirely...it must ruin their Madden gaming.

That's a dopey question, since we aren't replacing #80 or #17 in the forseeable future. So why don't you try to bait me with a question that's based in reality, like who should we draft with our first pick and why?

Thanks Firstnten, I enjoy the banter, but the repetition's of this argument's giving me a rash. I see from the last posts that I was right, the Faux Four haven't counted up its balls properly yet.

The Faux Four couldn't count his balls and get the same number twice. Cut big money, big time players, to replace them with either the old and done, the young and overhyped, or unproven. Nice. Comparin our team to other teams entrenched starters is masterbation and you're making a mess on yourself in front of the whole MB. My hope is that you do too much huffing or imbibe too much cough medicine and let other Giants fans know that you are any one of your handles. Perhaps they will be able to convince you of the error of your antagonizing position. Too bad you devote this much energy to embarrasing yourself, you might actually have learned something about football in the time you've spent acting like a broken record.

We shouldn't pay an aging and problematic LB that multiple amount of LT's salary despite the accounting for FA and inflation. It's propesterous to sign LA for that number. He is a brand and people buy into him just like the Raiders did to Warren Sapp. I'd rather find the diamond in the rough, like Tiki Barber. I'd take a LaVarr if he was affordable, but I wouldn't pay too many people that price. Ah, see real football talk...(insert dopey Faux Four comment here...ex. "yeah our QB is that overpaid, etc."

What's even more boring is Nutty's response to my assessment of their (the Faux Foursome) participation on the MB. This gets to be a waste. And to think, with the draft around the corner, we're still playing this dopey badger game about Eli, Shockey, and other players that aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Let's get on to talking about the world of possibilities in what's going to happen to this team. I get the whole antagonization angle and I'm sure that's especially rewarding for the person who logs in as the Faux Foursome, but it makes these conversations a farce.

Would I be the one to dust it...no. Besides, it's a closed case already: I can see it's a clear fit for you

I'm sure (if they dusted that thing for prints) your special lady friend's would be all-over it.

Man, this is a boring game...really. "The weather is good or bad because..." -predictable answer by the Faux Foursome: Jeremy Shockey "Our upcoming season is already over because..." -predicatable answer by the Faux Foursome: Eli Manning "The polar ice caps are melting...." -predictable answer by the Faux Foursome: again, Jeremy Shockey This is the worst sports banter ever. It's not clever, never insightful, and it's indicative of why I don't actually enjoy going to games. Given the situaiton of having to sit next to one of these types of personalities after the price of admission, the result will not be good. Where are the good posters? Why is this a good thing for the MB to have this repetitive schlock on the board?