Big Board

[parlintm]

Here's my big board of the top 35 players. Keep in mind that this is not a mock draft but a ranking of players based on skill and if you don't take need into account AT ALL this is the order in which you would draft. Id like to do this for the first 5 rounds or so but only have time right now to do the beginning. Ill post the finished version some time later this week or early next week.

 

1. Reggie Bush

2. DBrick

3. Vernon Davis

4. Mario Williams

5. Matt Leinart

6. Vince Young

7. Michael Huff

8. AJ Hawk

9. Ngata

10. Bunkley

11. Deangelo Williams

12. Antonio Cromartie

13. Chad Jackson

14. Ernest Sims

15. Winston Justice

16. Manny Lawson

17. Santonio Holmes

18. Jay Cutler

19. Jimmy Williams

20. Donte Whitner

21. Chad Greenway

22. Tye Hill

23. Lendale White

24. Bobby Carpenter

25. Demeco Ryans

26. Maroney

27. Eric Winston

28. Leonard Pope

29. Marcus McNeill

30. Nick Mangold

31. Jonathon Joseph

32. Tamba Hali

33. Mathias K.

34. Richard Marshall

35. Gabe Watson -- This guys the most difficult person for me to rate in the draft. He's easily talented enough to be a top 10 pick but doesnt seem to give a shit. I mean he's got bust written ALLL over him. But then again he could become the best DT in football. I put him here at 35 but if I were drafting w/ the 35th pick and everyone ahead of him on this list were gone, I still wouldnt take him. Money, since you probably saw him more than everyone else, at what point would you take the plunge? 10? 25? 30? 56? 100? never?

 

So this is my rough draft of the top 35. I really need to get working on my marketing project but I will produce at least 4 rounds of my Big Board by early next week and will post it here. If anybody notices any key oversights, please feel free to comment.

[CharlesShowMeTheWay]

Here's my big board of the top 35 players. Keep in mind that this is not a mock draft but a ranking of players based on skill and if you don't take need into account AT ALL this is the order in which you would draft. Id like to do this for the first 5 rounds or so but only have time right now to do the beginning. Ill post the finished version some time later this week or early next week.

 

1. Reggie Bush

2. DBrick

3. Vernon Davis

4. Mario Williams

5. Matt Leinart

6. Vince Young

7. Michael Huff

8. AJ Hawk

9. Ngata

10. Bunkley

11. Deangelo Williams

12. Antonio Cromartie

13. Chad Jackson

14. Ernest Sims

15. Winston Justice

16. Manny Lawson

17. Santonio Holmes

18. Jay Cutler

19. Jimmy Williams

20. Donte Whitner

21. Chad Greenway

22. Tye Hill

23. Lendale White

24. Bobby Carpenter

25. Demeco Ryans

26. Maroney

27. Eric Winston

28. Leonard Pope

29. Marcus McNeill

30. Nick Mangold

31. Jonathon Joseph

32. Tamba Hali

33. Mathias K.

34. Richard Marshall

35. Gabe Watson -- This guys the most difficult person for me to rate in the draft. He's easily talented enough to be a top 10 pick but doesnt seem to give a shit. I mean he's got bust written ALLL over him. But then again he could become the best DT in football. I put him here at 35 but if I were drafting w/ the 35th pick and everyone ahead of him on this list were gone, I still wouldnt take him. Money, since you probably saw him more than everyone else, at what point would you take the plunge? 10? 25? 30? 56? 100? never?

 

So this is my rough draft of the top 35. I really need to get working on my marketing project but I will produce at least 4 rounds of my Big Board by early next week and will post it here. If anybody notices any key oversights, please feel free to comment.

 

I honestly think Tamba Hali should be rated much higher than you have him here. He was a great player last year and consistently shed through being double teamed. Many people underrate his ability.

[parlintm]

I honestly think Tamba Hali should be rated much higher than you have him here. He was a great player last year and consistently shed through being double teamed. Many people underrate his ability.

 

Agreed. Will be reflecting next time. I made this in about 6 minutes.

[HOUND]

The one thing I never understand about value boards is the inflated status of quarterbacks. IF players are being ranked solely on their talent at the position, it just seems as though QB's get way more respect than they deserve. For example, last year you'd struggle to find a value board that didn't have Alex Smith in the top 5. Yet last years QB class was mediocre compared to other years.

 

I think this year is better but still not elite. There isn't a can't miss prospect at the position yet guys like Leinart and Young still make top 10 on value boards. I just don't see it. I don't think there's been a QB drafted in last year or this year, that is good as any of the top 2 from 2005.

 

Please don't take offense at this Armstead as I'm not pointing a finger at your board. This is just a trend I've noticed in value boards that irritates me.

 

If it's me, there isn't a QB even in the top 15 players in this years class.

[Pizan]

A lot of times players are rated higher if the person who created the draft board likes certain individuals. Others take some things into consideration more so then others. For me its Intangibles. I will have to disagree with Hound and say that there is one QB who is deserving of being rated in the top 5. Thats Vince Young.

[HOUND]

Pizan .. we don't disagree often but on this topic ... I think you're crazy.

 

Armstead has motivated me. I may have to create my own big board.

[HOUND]

Hound's Big Board ( had to eat my words on the QB's in the top 15)

 

1. RB R. Bush

2. DE M. Williams

3. LB A.J. Hawk

4. OT D'Brick

5. DT H. Ngata

6. DT B. Bunkley

7. TE V. Davis

8. DB M. Huff

9. LB E. Sims

10. OT W. Justice

11. DB A. Cromartie

12. WR S. Holmes

13. QB M. Leinart

14. QB J Cutler

15. RB D. Williams

16. C N. Mangold

17. QB V. Young

18. LB C. Greenway

19. WR C. Jackson

20. LB D. Ryans

21. RB L. White

22. DE M. Kiwanuka

23. OT E. Winston

24. LB M. Lawson

25. DT G. Watson

26. CB A. Youboty

27. RB L. Maroney

28. CB J. Williams

29. LB B. Carpenter

30. DB D. Whitner

31. LB D. Jackson

32. DE T. Hali

 

A quick glance will show this isn't your typical value board. I'm simply not high on this years QB class. It's a strong Defensive draft.

 

Guy's I tend to be higher on then most:

LB E. Sims

DE M Kiwanuka

 

Guy's I think are overrated:

All the QB's

DB Jimmy Williams

[Pizan]

Pizan .. we don't disagree often but on this topic ... I think you're crazy.

 

Armstead has motivated me. I may have to create my own big board.

 

 

Hound I have to ask you, in your opinion, what position is the most important position on the football field? We should both agree that it is QB, am I right? What do you look for in your QB? Me, I look for leadership first and foremost. I told you Im an intangibles type of guy, so im also big on character. Second I look to see if he performs well in the clutch. Third, wins. Fourth, the ability to take over and control a game, the X factor. After that effiency and turnovers. Finally arm strength and accuracy.

 

Vince Young is 22 years old, a national champion, and one of the best prospects to enter this years draft class. You think im crazy? Well maybe I am. Let me set it straight from the start though, Im not a Texas fan and Im not from Houston, I have no reason to be bias. A 6'5″ 230-pound quarterback with superior athleticism and hard to find leadership shouldnt be over looked. The fact that he is the first QB ever to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for a 1,000 all in one season should not be over looked. If you look at the direction of pro QBs, most of them are guys who can move and throw. Young is perhaps one of the best to ever do so.

 

A lot of people compare Vick to Young. Well Vick went number 1 overall in a draft with LaDanian Tomlison. Vick is absolutely outstanding at two things, running and throwing the ball far. He struggles reading the field and with accuracy. Young has far better accuracy than Vick and a completely different type of runner. Vick displays his unbelievable speed and ridiculous agility. Young runs by everyone but it never looks like he is running hard. He makes people miss but rarely does more than a sidestep. Rarely have I seen him run down from behind in a game. For being 6'5" 230lbs thats incredible. Young also ran for almost twice as many yards per season than Vick did at Virginia Tech.

 

Before the 2nd game of the season Young took action. After practice he wrote a challenge on a dry erase board: Anyone who wants to beat Ohio St. show up for 7 on 7. That turned into 11 on 11. It was then when Young gave Texas the sort of attitude and desire it would take to become national champs. That OSU game would become one of the defining games of the season for Texas and would hold one of the defining moments of Youngs career. Young single handedly defeated one of the best defenses in College football with his legs as well as his arm. With 2 1/2 minutes left in the game Young threw the game winning pass to Sweed between a narrow gap of two defenders and the sideline. Later that season he would go on to defeat arguebly one of the best college football teams of all time for the National Championship.

 

Vince Young is now Texas most winning QB in school history, he is also the NCAAs 7th all time QB in winning percentage. He was just a junior, he is only 22 years old. Young has everything you look for on the field and off the field. After the Texas A&M game Young stuck around for an hour and signed every kids shirt that was there. Young is also heavily involved in the longhorn leaders program as well as a constant face in Austin area schools, at charity events and as a motivational speaker.

 

Young is everything you can ask for in a QB for todays game. He has it all, to me there are few better. Young will come out of this draft as the best player.

[parlintm]

Well, maybe 2nd best... Reggie Bush is a freak. Both of these guys have the potential to "redefine" their positions.

[E-town Giant]

alright whatever

[HOUND]

Hound I have to ask you, in your opinion, what position is the most important position on the football field? We should both agree that it is QB, am I right? What do you look for in your QB? Me, I look for leadership first and foremost. I told you Im an intangibles type of guy, so im also big on character. Second I look to see if he performs well in the clutch. Third, wins. Fourth, the ability to take over and control a game, the X factor. After that effiency and turnovers. Finally arm strength and accuracy.

 

Vince Young is 22 years old, a national champion, and one of the best prospects to enter this years draft class. You think im crazy? Well maybe I am. Let me set it straight from the start though, Im not a Texas fan and Im not from Houston, I have no reason to be bias. A 6'5″ 230-pound quarterback with superior athleticism and hard to find leadership shouldnt be over looked. The fact that he is the first QB ever to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for a 1,000 all in one season should not be over looked. If you look at the direction of pro QBs, most of them are guys who can move and throw. Young is perhaps one of the best to ever do so.

 

A lot of people compare Vick to Young. Well Vick went number 1 overall in a draft with LaDanian Tomlison. Vick is absolutely outstanding at two things, running and throwing the ball far. He struggles reading the field and with accuracy. Young has far better accuracy than Vick and a completely different type of runner. Vick displays his unbelievable speed and ridiculous agility. Young runs by everyone but it never looks like he is running hard. He makes people miss but rarely does more than a sidestep. Rarely have I seen him run down from behind in a game. For being 6'5" 230lbs thats incredible. Young also ran for almost twice as many yards per season than Vick did at Virginia Tech.

 

Before the 2nd game of the season Young took action. After practice he wrote a challenge on a dry erase board: Anyone who wants to beat Ohio St. show up for 7 on 7. That turned into 11 on 11. It was then when Young gave Texas the sort of attitude and desire it would take to become national champs. That OSU game would become one of the defining games of the season for Texas and would hold one of the defining moments of Youngs career. Young single handedly defeated one of the best defenses in College football with his legs as well as his arm. With 2 1/2 minutes left in the game Young threw the game winning pass to Sweed between a narrow gap of two defenders and the sideline. Later that season he would go on to defeat arguebly one of the best college football teams of all time for the National Championship.

 

Vince Young is now Texas most winning QB in school history, he is also the NCAAs 7th all time QB in winning percentage. He was just a junior, he is only 22 years old. Young has everything you look for on the field and off the field. After the Texas A&M game Young stuck around for an hour and signed every kids shirt that was there. Young is also heavily involved in the longhorn leaders program as well as a constant face in Austin area schools, at charity events and as a motivational speaker.

 

Young is everything you can ask for in a QB for todays game. He has it all, to me there are few better. Young will come out of this draft as the best player.

 

Pizan - there's very little in your post I disagree with. Despite how I've rated him on a professional level, I'm a big fan of Vince Young the player. I love what he's accomplished. He definitely isn't afraid to work hard to accomplish his goals. I agree that for the most part, the intangibles are all in his favor.

 

I do feel that on a collegiate level the QB isn't as instrumental as it is in the NFL. Dominating teams can win NCAA National Championships with average QB's. It doesn't happen as often in the NFL. I'll also say that Heisman worthy QB's who elevate their teams level of play don't always have the skill set to even make a roster at the next level. Look at Tommie Frazier and Eric Crouch. I'll even add Gino Toretta to that list, although it pains me to do so since the guy was hardly Heisman worthy.

 

I completely agree that Young is an incredible athlete with freakish skills. But I'm not convinced that his passing skills are sufficient for the next level. I saw 3 Longhorns games this year, including the National Championship game. I rarely saw him in the position where he even needed to throw under what I consider NFL conditions, which qualifies as any of the following:

 

- Threading the needle into a tight spot to hit a closely covered receiver.

- Staring down the rush and delivering the ball to a receiver.

- Checking down to 2nd and 3rd options.

 

Seems like almost every time I saw Young throw the ball he was soft tossing it or lofting it in front of a wide open receiver. I read that the guy has good arm strength but I rarely see it on display. He also worked out of a shotgun way too much which means he likely needs to develop NFL grade footwork.

 

I'm not predicting he'll be a bust I just don't think he'll be a perennial all-pro either. I think he faces a steep learning curve.

[Pizan]

Well, maybe 2nd best... Reggie Bush is a freak. Both of these guys have the potential to "redefine" their positions.

 

 

You're right. Reggie Bush does some amazing things and so has Vince but in Reggies biggest game of his career vs ND this past season he wasnt the won who won the game for USC, Matt did. In Youngs two biggest games the OSU game and the National Championship, Young won both of those practically by himself. He didnt have a Heisman runner up as a teamate or the nations best oline. Vince Young was a one man wrecking crew.

[parlintm]

You're right. Reggie Bush does some amazing things and so has Vince but in Reggies biggest game of his career vs ND this past season he wasnt the won who won the game for USC, Matt did. In Youngs two biggest games the OSU game and the National Championship, Young won both of those practically by himself. He didnt have a Heisman runner up as a teamate or the nations best oline. Vince Young was a one man wrecking crew.

 

No doubt.

[uconngiants]

Here's my big board of the top 35 players. Keep in mind that this is not a mock draft but a ranking of players based on skill and if you don't take need into account AT ALL this is the order in which you would draft. Id like to do this for the first 5 rounds or so but only have time right now to do the beginning. Ill post the finished version some time later this week or early next week.

 

1. Reggie Bush

2. DBrick

3. Vernon Davis

4. Mario Williams

5. Matt Leinart

6. Vince Young

7. Michael Huff

8. AJ Hawk

9. Ngata

10. Bunkley

11. Deangelo Williams

12. Antonio Cromartie

13. Chad Jackson

14. Ernest Sims

15. Winston Justice

16. Manny Lawson

17. Santonio Holmes

18. Jay Cutler

19. Jimmy Williams

20. Donte Whitner

21. Chad Greenway

22. Tye Hill

23. Lendale White

24. Bobby Carpenter

25. Demeco Ryans

26. Maroney

27. Eric Winston

28. Leonard Pope

29. Marcus McNeill

30. Nick Mangold

31. Jonathon Joseph

32. Tamba Hali

33. Mathias K.

34. Richard Marshall

35. Gabe Watson -- This guys the most difficult person for me to rate in the draft. He's easily talented enough to be a top 10 pick but doesnt seem to give a shit. I mean he's got bust written ALLL over him. But then again he could become the best DT in football. I put him here at 35 but if I were drafting w/ the 35th pick and everyone ahead of him on this list were gone, I still wouldnt take him. Money, since you probably saw him more than everyone else, at what point would you take the plunge? 10? 25? 30? 56? 100? never?

 

So this is my rough draft of the top 35. I really need to get working on my marketing project but I will produce at least 4 rounds of my Big Board by early next week and will post it here. If anybody notices any key oversights, please feel free to comment.

 

 

i think me and you both agree on gabe watson it is so hard to rank the man

[Pizan]

I completely agree that Young is an incredible athlete with freakish skills. But I'm not convinced that his passing skills are sufficient for the next level. I saw 3 Longhorns games this year, including the National Championship game. I rarely saw him in the position where he even needed to throw under what I consider NFL conditions, which qualifies as any of the following:

 

- Threading the needle into a tight spot to hit a closely covered receiver.

- Staring down the rush and delivering the ball to a receiver.

- Checking down to 2nd and 3rd options.

 

Seems like almost every time I saw Young throw the ball he was soft tossing it or lofting it in front of a wide open receiver. I read that the guy has good arm strength but I rarely see it on display. He also worked out of a shotgun way too much which means he likely needs to develop NFL grade footwork.

 

I'm not predicting he'll be a bust I just don't think he'll be a perennial all-pro either. I think he faces a steep learning curve.

 

 

Hound, the Ohio St game winning touchdown pass was a threaded pass to a closely covered reciever. I've seen more then enough times where Vince Young is set to pass and defenders are in his face. Whats a Vince Young pass with out defenders in his face? A flick of the wrist and the ball is tossed 40 yards down field. Did you happen to catch the Oklahoma game? He did that countless times including a 60 yard strike he made look way too easy that went for a TD. The Texas offense was designed for Vince, with two checks and then Vince can use his legs. Mack Brown actually commented on that at one point during the season.

 

Point is Vince Young has everything it takes to be an all-pro QB. He is a much better overall QB prospect then Vick was when Vick left early, and we all know how high Vick was selected. Young still has things to work on but what QB coming out of college doesnt?