PSL Protest

hlb37 · August 26, 2008

Thatius · August 26, 2008

I still do not understand a few of the legalities involved here.

1) How do you lease the same space twice. Jets and Giant fans should both have rights to that seat for anything that goes on in the stadium including concerts, soccer, college games, and Jets and giant games.

You pay for the rights to the seats, you get the rights to the seats. You dont share the rights to the seats. The only thing comparable would be a time share type of thing. That would work if only Jets and Giants played at the stadium, what aboout concerts, soccer, and college games? Those tickets need to be offered to those with the Licences FIRST.

2) How can the teams use the PSL money? If it is meant to go back to the fan if and when they decide not to buy the seasons tickets, then it needs to be kept as a security, meaning it goes into a non interest bearing account(escrow). If not then they owe the lincencee for the interest it would have gained for the years they held onto the money.

There are already laws on the books that make this kind of thing illegal. Why in NY/NJ there arent a thousand lawyers trampling over each other to get these guys into court is beyond me.

eagleEye · August 26, 2008

I said it before, and Ill say it again: Wellington would have never let this happen. Jon Mara should be ashamed of himself.

GreyHoodie · August 27, 2008

I still do not understand a few of the legalities involved here.

1) How do you lease the same space twice. Jets and Giant fans should both have rights to that seat for anything that goes on in the stadium including concerts, soccer, college games, and Jets and giant games.

You pay for the rights to the seats, you get the rights to the seats. You dont share the rights to the seats. The only thing comparable would be a time share type of thing. That would work if only Jets and Giants played at the stadium, what aboout concerts, soccer, and college games? Those tickets need to be offered to those with the Licences FIRST.

2) How can the teams use the PSL money? If it is meant to go back to the fan if and when they decide not to buy the seasons tickets, then it needs to be kept as a security, meaning it goes into a non interest bearing account(escrow). If not then they owe the lincencee for the interest it would have gained for the years they held onto the money.

There are already laws on the books that make this kind of thing illegal. Why in NY/NJ there arent a thousand lawyers trampling over each other to get these guys into court is beyond me.

Ever heard of time sharing? With time sharing you the right to occupy a space for a certain period of time each year, eg third week in May. With the PSL you are buying the right to occupy space on days in which the Giants play football at home.

The Jets/Giants PSLs are less valuable than those that give you the right to buy tickets to non-exempt event (concerts etc) but no PSL gives you the right to attend every event held in the stadium. Having a PSL in a stadium that hosts the superbowl will not secure you a ticket to the SB. What is exempt or not is largely in control of the stadium owners.

In general offering PSL owners the first crack at buying tickets, helps the owner of the stadium sell tickets so making an event non-exempt is not done unless the performer insists.

What the Jets/Giants should do for concerts is give PSL owners the right to buy half the tickets. Own a 4 pack you can buy 2 tickets to see concert.

By and large as long as both parties are over 18 you can contract to do anything that is not illegal. And as this is a luxury item, if you don't like the pricing of PSLs your best recourse is not to buy it. This not price gouging of infant formula. If sufficient number of people refuse to purchase the seller will have to make adjustments.

**RandolphScott** · August 27, 2008

I said it before, and Ill say it again: Wellington would have never let this happen. Jon Mara should be ashamed of himself.

Wellington would have let it happen, don't kid yourself. I believe and Peter King wrote this

a while back in his MMQB for SI that Mara did NOT want to go the route of the PSL's, I'm sure

it kept John Mara up at nights, but this is also a business and he has to protect his team and

his investments.

Wellington would have done the exact same thing.

hlb37 · August 27, 2008

there is no question that what they are doing is legal. at the same time, there is no way that this won't force die hard fans out of the stadium. They are going to make a ton of money for themselves in the process. not much we can do about it.

I guess that is why the premier nfl franchises now trade at a billion plus.

Ditto · August 27, 2008

All fans from around the country should unite and quit buying NFL gear. You gotta hit them in the pocket book.

Lubeck · August 27, 2008

Wellington would have done the exact same thing.

No he wouldn't, he would magically pull a new stadium out of his ass.

Or he would somehow convince all the union construction workers to do the job pro bono. And the companies providing the materials used to build the stadium would out of generosity donate the steel, wire, sheet rock, etc. to build that stadium.

Seriously tell me how Wellington would pay for this stadium without either PSLs or getting the state to kick in hundreds of millions of our dollars.

hlb37 · August 27, 2008

No he wouldn't, he would magically pull a new stadium out of his ass.

Or he would somehow convince all the union construction workers to do the job pro bono. And the companies providing the materials used to build the stadium would out of generosity donate the steel, wire, sheet rock, etc. to build that stadium.

Seriously tell me how Wellington would pay for this stadium without either PSLs or getting the state to kick in hundreds of millions of our dollars.

for starters he would have recognized that there was nothing wrong with th existing stadium and played there

Lubeck · August 27, 2008

for starters he would have recognized that there was nothing wrong with th existing stadium and played there

I agree they don't need a new stadium, but lets assume that isn't a factor. They are building a stadium. How does Wellington build it without PSLs or tax dollars?

gateb · August 27, 2008

just wanted to throw it out there... the jets are really killing the fans that sit in the lower tier.

Basically they either pay the money and ridiculous tickets amount or give up their season tix. with there being no PSLs in the upper bowl no one is going to give up the season tix, so jets fans sitting down low won't be able to move up top.

hlb37 · August 27, 2008

I agree they don't need a new stadium, but lets assume that isn't a factor. They are building a stadium. How does Wellington build it without PSLs or tax dollars?

It seems given the 30k+ waiting list and the sub 1% turn over rate that they could have found a bank to float a loan against future revenue.

Think about it. What is the average ticket price going to be now? 250 bucks? thats over 200 million a year guaranteed right there. Add advertising revenue, naming rights, parking and concessions.

Sure they have to pay player salaries but remember they are probably grabbing another 100 odd million from their share of tv contracts plus a piece of the league merchandise licensing.

Lubeck · August 27, 2008

It seems given the 30k+ waiting list and the sub 1% turn over rate that they could have found a bank to float a loan against future revenue.

Think about it. What is the average ticket price going to be now? 250 bucks? thats over 200 million a year guaranteed right there. Add advertising revenue, naming rights, parking and concessions.

Sure they have to pay player salaries but remember they are probably grabbing another 100 odd million from their share of tv contracts plus a piece of the league merchandise licensing.

And why should they lose money in the form of interest on a loan when they don't have to? You think Wellington would blow millions of dollars just to not charge PSLs?

Money · August 27, 2008

for starters he would have recognized that there was nothing wrong with th existing stadium and played there

The Giants and their antiquated stadium are only in the middie of the pack as far as revenue is concerned. Their being routinely out-earned by every other team in their division. That puts them at a competitive advantage, especially as new stadium continue to proliferate throughout the league.

**Lughead** · August 27, 2008

New Jersey assemblyman rips Giants over PSL plan

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Wednesday, August 27th 2008, 4:52 PM

A New Jersey lawmaker is urging the Giants to rethink their plan to sell personal seat licenses for every seat in the new football stadium at the Meadowlands.

Assemblyman Anthony Chiappone on Wednesday applauded the Jets for allowing 27,000 upper-deck fans to buy season tickets without also shelling out a one-time personal seat license fee and encouraged the Giants to do the same.

Chiappone is sponsoring legislation that would ban the sale of seat licenses at all sports facilities in the state.

The Hudson County Democrat said he considers personal seat licenses “an unfair gouging of fans,” but he said the Jets’ plan, announced Tuesday, to charge only premium season ticket holders is fairer than charging everyone.

“What the Jets are doing is different than the Giants,” he said. “They are leaving 27,000 seats PSL-free. A large portion of the stadium fan base will be able to buy seats without having to purchase a PSL.”

Giants spokesman Pat Hanlon said the team had no comment.

The Giants plan to sell seat licenses for $1,000 to those in the upper deck and as much as $20,000 for those with field-level seats. The Jets are selling PSLs for between $4,000 and $25,000 for lower level seats at the stadium the Jets and Giants will share. It is scheduled to open in 2010.

The money will help pay for the $1.6 billion stadium, which the Giants and Jets are paying for. Each team expects to receive about $170 million from the sale of seat licenses.

The fees come on top of regular season ticket prices. Anyone who does not pay forfeits the right to buy season tickets.

Chiappone said he hopes his proposal will be debated in the Legislature this fall, noting that his concern extends beyond the situation at the new stadium.

Stadium owners could charge for seat licenses “even if they choose to rehab a stadium, on top of escalated seat prices,” he said.

Chiappone, who is a Giants fan but does not hold season tickets, said he will participate in a demonstration organized by fans before the Giants home opener against the Redskins on Sept. 4.

gateb · August 28, 2008

The Jets process is going to be much more confusing then ours.

There's is going to be based on seniority. With the ridiculous lower seat prices everyone's going to go into the upper deck. Good luck with that one.

hlb37 · August 28, 2008

The Jets process is going to be much more confusing then ours.

There's is going to be based on seniority. With the ridiculous lower seat prices everyone's going to go into the upper deck. Good luck with that one.

They never guaranteed you could stay put if you made that priority #1 did they??

The whole thing is going to be a cluster fuck. I love my seat and am not looking forward to losing it at all but it is not like I am not going to smile and pay the man.

**Lughead** · August 29, 2008

Jets fan finds a way around $30,000 seat license Thursday, August 28, 2008

EDT 8:31 PM BY BOB GROVES Staff Writer"

While some fans are fighting the Jets' new personal seat license fee (PSL), Howard Freeman wants to turn it into a business opportunity.

Freeman, a sports marketer in Fairfield, is offering to sell the naming rights to his two seats for Jet games at the new Meadowlands stadium to help him offset the $30,000 (PSL) that the team is charging him for the right to keep buying season tickets.

The Jets said Freeman's plan was out of bounds.

"It is not permitted, and the team declined further comment," spokesman Bruce Speight said today.

The Jets announced this week that they will charge PSL fees similar to those of the Giants for seats in the lower bowl of the stadium, but they won't have PSLs for 27,000 upper-deck seats. The Giants are charging $1,000 for PSLs in those seats.

The teams say they need the additional revenue to help pay for the new stadium, which will open in 2010.

Obtaining the naming rights to Freeman's two lower-level loge seats in Section 113 would entitle the buyer to cover them with its corporate or personal logo during 10 Jet home games, he said.

Freeman also is offering free sampling of all his pregame tailgate offerings and the right of first refusal to buy any of his unused Jets tickets at face value.

Freeman and his son, Jesse, would wear merchandise bearing the sponsor's logo at all games, Freeman said. The seats are sheltered and located near a stadium men's room, he said.

"It's about marketing," said Freeman, 55, who lives in Wayne. "All I'm doing is creating my little lemonade stand.

"I'm not stealing lemons, I'm not going into competition with anybody," he added.

Freeman said he has had Jet tickets since he and three college buddies went in together on seats at Shea Stadium in 1976. He was not thrilled when the Giants, then the Jets, levied their PSL fees, but said he saw it as a chance for private enterprise.

"Ever since the Giants came out with a PSL, I hear everybody whining it's not fair," he said. " 'Woe is me'; I'm gonna call my congressman, I'm gonna call my lawyer.' But, hey, this is America. Mr. [Jets owner Woody] Johnson can do what he wants."

Because he will own the PSL and have the right to sell it, Freeman figures he can offer naming rights as a great way for sponsors to get publicity.

"If I'm dealt lemons, I make lemonade and come up with creative, entrepreneurial solutions using my main principle, OPM — other people's money — but offer them value at the same time," said Freeman, who stages jazz and balloon festivals.

The Jets have not won a Super Bowl recently but are asking loyal fans to invest more money in PSL fees and costlier tickets, he said.

"I'm just looking to market my little part of the investment," he said. "I should get more than a cup holder and more leg room."

E-mail: groves@northjersey.com

While some fans are fighting the Jets' new personal seat license fee (PSL), Howard Freeman wants to turn it into a business opportunity.

CHRIS PEDOTA/STAFF Jets season-ticket holder Howard Freeman is going to try to sell the naming rights to his seat at the new stadium so he can recoup part of the $30,000 personal seat license fee. Freeman, a sports marketer in Fairfield, is offering to sell the naming rights to his two seats for Jet games at the new Meadowlands stadium to help him offset the $30,000 (PSL) that the team is charging him for the right to keep buying season tickets.