The Venenzuelan Tom Glavine

[xxi-xxv]

Wow , 140 mil sure aint what it use to be. I guess for 16 mil a year expecting a pitcher to get past 6 innings is a real stretch.

 

So let me get this straight. Since July 1 2007 Johan Santana is now 12-14 with a 3++++ ERA and he is a staff ace?

 

On the bright side... we have six more years of an aging left hander to look forward to to get his stuff back.

 

 

The franchise has maybe never been as pathetic as they are now.

[Lubeck]

Wow , 140 mil sure aint what it use to be. I guess for 16 mil a year expecting a pitcher to get past 6 innings is a real stretch.

 

Well there was the rain delay.

 

Either way I am happy today. Carton will be whining like a little bitch Monday morning.

[gateb]

johan's been a dissappointment but like you said yourself a while ago there have been far worse disasters for the mets than what johan has done this year. in an era defined by FA busts and terrible trades, johan's been good enough. i never thought johan was that spectacular until i heard the bloated expectations of him (20 guaranteed wins, etc.).

 

the mets offense just does nothing when he starts now.

[xxi-xxv]

He is averaging a tad ovr 6 innings per start. About what the 41 year old Glavine gave the Mets in 2007.

 

 

I know they do not score for him and I know that he did have a game or 2 blown, but an ACE has to go more than 6 innings from time to time.

 

I feel bad for Johan though. Everyone felt he was the band aid to the wounds that this team had from 2007 and its clear they did not need a band aid, but they needed major reconstruction surgery.

[gateb]

Johan's gone more than 6 innings 11 out of 17 appearances. Only once has he gone below 6 IP and that time it was 5.2 and he was set for the win until wagner blew it.

 

the only BAD outing he's had this year was against LAA.

 

all things considered this is the pitcher i expected when we got him in february before the bloated expectations came up.

[xxi-xxv]

Johan's gone more than 6 innings 11 out of 17 appearances. Only once has he gone below 6 IP and that time it was 5.2 and he was set for the win until wagner blew it.

 

the only BAD outing he's had this year was against LAA.

 

all things considered this is the pitcher i expected when we got him in february before the bloated expectations came up.

 

I stand corrected he is averaging 6 2/3 ip/start

 

His 2nd outing vs the Braves, 12hits in 7 innings was awful

 

Giving up a grand slam to an AL pitcher was awful. I do not care how many errors were made behind him before that. Its unacceptable and improbable for even a shitty pitcher.

 

 

 

[gateb]

I stand corrected he is averaging 6 2/3 ip/start

 

His 2nd outing vs the Braves, 12hits in 7 innings was awful

 

Giving up a grand slam to an AL pitcher was awful. I do not care how many errors were made behind him before that. Its unacceptable and improbable for even a shitty pitcher.

12 hits may be awful but is 3 ER awful? who gives a shit about how many hits he gives up?

 

call him another tom glavine but i guarantee you he wont be posting a 4.5 ERA

 

his average IP isnt that great but you made it sound as if he goes 7 innings or more once in a blue moon.

 

ask any twins fan about johan and he'll tell you that this is what santana is at this point. you should be more pissed at the media then santana. they're the ones that made him out to be the next tom seaver before spring training.

 

his 140 million is a reflection of zitos contract, leverage, and pure desperation on the mets part. his play hasn't really merited the money he got.

[gateb]

and felix's home run was 94 MPH and out of the strike zone. it may look bad that he gives up a grand slam to an AL pitcher but i dont see why felix isnt getting any credit and johan's getting all blame. im not gonna be a johan apologist but that was a great piece of hitting. as laughable as it sounds you take off his uniform and you could easily call him arod on that swing.

 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d08gfZpnDA4

[xxi-xxv]

12 hits may be awful but is 3 ER awful? who gives a shit about how many hits he gives up?

 

call him another tom glavine but i guarantee you he wont be posting a 4.5 ERA

 

his average IP isnt that great but you made it sound as if he goes 7 innings or more once in a blue moon.

 

ask any twins fan about johan and he'll tell you that this is what santana is at this point. you should be more pissed at the media then santana. they're the ones that made him out to be the next tom seaver before spring training

 

That game in Atlanta was putrid, 3 double plays and 2 line outs, he was rocked and that 3 ER line is as misleading as you can get. 4 total runs, 12 hits and a grand total of 1 strikeout. 1! This is a guy who has led the league in strikeouts the past 3 years and he had 1!

 

I know a Twins fan, he told me Santana has not been the same since June of 07, look at the stats. Santana was far better and gave more IP and less hits/ ip in Minny, an AL team by the way facing a DH.

 

he is averaging 6 2/3 ip. You are the one that brings up he has only one start less that 6 IP, yet I tell you that he only averages 6 2/3. Guess what, do the math he does only go 7 ip or more "once in a blue moon"

[Allstarjim]

Johan is doing fine, not dominant. I think he will continue to do well. Is it possible that Rick Peterson tinkered with him too much? Let's give him a few more starts with Warthen. I'm somewhat pleased with Johan, but not blown away. Church is back so I'm excited about the near future of this team. I don't think you can say that this team is more pathetic than it's ever been. I mean, even in my lifetime they've been more pathetic. Remember the Alomar/Mo Vaugh team? I can't remember, did that team also have Bobby Bonilla? Ugh.

 

Besides, this team is only 3 games out of first and is right about .500. With everything this team has gone through with Alou, Church, bad calls, bad luck, Pedro, Heilman being inexplicably bad, the Willie Randolph watch and subsequent firing, we are just 3 games out. That is retarded, this team should be sharing the cellar with Washington. But we've managed to stay in this thing and now we have a relatively complete team... moreso now than we've had all year. We've also been through the worst parts of our schedule, we have a lot more games now at home, I'm not even sure if we even have another west coast trip left. This team is coming around.

 

 

[xxi-xxv]

Johan is doing fine, not dominant. I think he will continue to do well. Is it possible that Rick Peterson tinkered with him too much? Let's give him a few more starts with Warthen. I'm somewhat pleased with Johan, but not blown away. Church is back so I'm excited about the near future of this team. I don't think you can say that this team is more pathetic than it's ever been. I mean, even in my lifetime they've been more pathetic. Remember the Alomar/Mo Vaugh team? I can't remember, did that team also have Bobby Bonilla? Ugh.

 

Besides, this team is only 3 games out of first and is right about .500. With everything this team has gone through with Alou, Church, bad calls, bad luck, Pedro, Heilman being inexplicably bad, the Willie Randolph watch and subsequent firing, we are just 3 games out. That is retarded, this team should be sharing the cellar with Washington. But we've managed to stay in this thing and now we have a relatively complete team... moreso now than we've had all year. We've also been through the worst parts of our schedule, we have a lot more games now at home, I'm not even sure if we even have another west coast trip left. This team is coming around.

 

Who said that this team is more "pathetic than its ever been"??

[mws44]

Note: Johan Santana is Doing his Job

By Matthew Cerrone - Jun 29, 2008 8:41 am

 

 

Johan Santana let up four hits, four walks and three runs, while striking out eight, in six innings pitched during a loss yesterday at Shea Stadium against the Yankees.

 

Santana is 0–4 with a 2.53 ERA in his last five starts, during which the Mets have averaged two runs per game and are 0–5. Meanwhile, in that same time, only three other National League starting pitchers have a better ERA than Santana.

 

…though, it should be noted that, in his previous start to yesterday, he allowed a grand slam to the opposing pitcher, on which all runs were considered unearned thanks to an error by David Wright, even though he, santana, let up the home run…

 

Jerry Manuel, on Santana, talking to reporters after the game:

 

“I don’t know if he can pitch any better than how he’s pitched lately. Us not scoring runs puts a lot of stress on every pitch. He feels like he can’t make a mistake…What an ace has to do is give you a chance to win every night, and that’s what he does…He’s keeping us in games, but we’re just not getting the job done offensively.”

 

Santana, following yesterday’s game, said to reporters:

 

“I’m doing my job. Other than that, there’s nothing else I can do. I can’t go out there and do the things that my teammates have to do.”

 

….zing…ouch…the thing is, he’s mostly right…i keep reading people comment on how he has not been an ‘ace,’ whatever that means…fact is, only a few pitchers have been better than him, so, short of hitting a home run or two, i’m not sure what else he’s supposed to do…

 

Santana’s 3.00 ERA is fifth-best in the National League this season, while his 103 strike outs are fourth-best.

 

Only Tim Hudson, Aaron Cook and Cole Hamels have thrown more innings in the National League as a starting pitcher.

I don't know man, I haven't been very disappointed in Santana. I knew he gave up homeruns going in, and even that hasn't really killed him. He does give up a lot of hits, but limits the run damage for the most part and is the only starting pitcher on this squad who consistently pitches into the seventh inning. That's a reliever for 1 out in the seventh, then setup guy and closer. That's exactly the formula we were looking for.

 

The grand slam sucks, but that pitch was a high and outside fastball and he put a lucky swing on it.

[gateb]

That game in Atlanta was putrid, 3 double plays and 2 line outs, he was rocked and that 3 ER line is as misleading as you can get. 4 total runs, 12 hits and a grand total of 1 strikeout. 1! This is a guy who has led the league in strikeouts the past 3 years and he had 1!

 

I know a Twins fan, he told me Santana has not been the same since June of 07, look at the stats. Santana was far better and gave more IP and less hits/ ip in Minny, an AL team by the way facing a DH.

 

he is averaging 6 2/3 ip. You are the one that brings up he has only one start less that 6 IP, yet I tell you that he only averages 6 2/3. Guess what, do the math he does only go 7 ip or more "once in a blue moon"

1 out of every 2 starts is once in a blue moon

 

He's gone 7+ 10 times out of his 17 starts.

 

and santana has posted the best ERA in june of any NL pitcher.

[jranieli]

There is something we have to realize, this team is not putting up runs. There is no reason why he should only have 7 wins at this point. We are expecting way too much. It is rare that you see a pitcher go past 7+ innings anymore, except when it's against the Mets.

[xxi-xxv]

1 out of every 2 starts is once in a blue moon

 

He's gone 7+ 10 times out of his 17 starts.

 

and santana has posted the best ERA in june of any NL pitcher.

 

Gate B he is AVERAGING, meaning it is what it is as our former manager use to like to say 6 2/3 IP /start. You can cite all the starts he has gone into the 7th all you want, at the end of the day he is a 6 2/3 ip pitcher.

 

 

That ERA is as much a joke as anything, that awesome amazing terrific only Babe Ruth could have hit it grand slam was unearned.

 

I just heard the best thing about Johan, he pitches just bas enough to not win on a consistent basis.

 

Its clear the guy is on the donwside, but hey we have 6 more years for him to refind himself.

[xxi-xxv]

[jranieli]

 

tell us how you feel.

 

If Willie was still here (wishing the champagne will only taste sweeter), the Mets would not even scored a run tonight.

[Allstarjim]

Who said that this team is more "pathetic than its ever been"??

 

 

The franchise has maybe never been as pathetic as they are now.

 

[xxi-xxv]

No one is going to tell me that in the way they handled WIllie that it was not pathetic and combined with their play was as low rent as one can get. To their credit as predicted by me they have gone on a run. It still does not erase the way they handled WIllie and how second rate the Wilpons(Jeff) can be at times. I will say this though, just like I told Phillies fans last year when they caught the Mets, this has as much to do with the Phils starting to tank as the Mets playing well.

 

If the Mets continue like this, they will win this div by 5 games especially if Philly continues to struggle.

[xxi-xxv]

tell us how you feel.

 

If Willie was still here (wishing the champagne will only taste sweeter), the Mets would not even scored a run tonight.

I think if Willie were still here the Mets might actually be 5 games under. Its clear that he was not the voice this team needed to succeed. Wonder had they shit canned him last year if the Mets would have been better off all year? Hard to argue I guess.

[gateb]

so this thread is gonna be bumped every time he has an off start? not to be an apologist but his career ERA is above 6 when getting 6 or more days of rest.

[xxi-xxv]

so this thread is gonna be bumped every time he has an off start? to be an apologist but his career ERA is above 6 when getting 6 or more days of rest.

 

fixed

 

 

Did you hear his quote of how he was screwed up with no bullpen session due to the Billy Joel concert at Shea?

 

 

LAME, if you ask me.

 

 

To quote the great Joe Beningo yesterday "ok Johan its been 4 months now, show me something".

 

I am sorry Joe is right, its time for Johan to step up and stop the exuses I do not care about the ERA or whatever else, go out and outpitch the other teams starter, if that means CG 2 hitter, so be it.