Good news hopefully on the way

[Allstarjim]

Church is eligible to come off the disable list I believe after tomorrow. He should be able to play by Sunday. Hopefully, he is now fully recovered and can help this team.

[Jay Lesner]

This is great news. With him on the team, I think our driving runs in problem will be behind us.

 

Things are looking up if you ask me.

[RandolphScott]

This is great news. With him on the team, I think our driving runs in problem will be behind us.

 

Things are looking up if you ask me.

 

 

No, they aren't. Once the grace period on Manuel wears off everything will revert back to form.

 

Only way it changes is if:

Johan Santana starts to throw 95 again.

Carlos Delgado magically reverts back to his 2005 form where he hit .301.

Billy Wagner stops blowing saves.

David Wright stops pulling the ball every fucking at bat.

 

 

No, Ryan Church isn't going to solve anything if you ask me.

[jranieli]

Easy guys, we have won two in a row and won two series in a row. Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Many teams do initially well when there is a change in managers. Let give this a few weeks or a month and we will see where the team stands.

[xxi-xxv]

I felt this bunch was gonna get hot regardless of who the manager is. Like I said, do not know why I feel this way, there is no evidence to suggest such, its just my hunch.

 

I do see a renewed energy to the team, but I must say, I saw this last week against Arizona as well, but Wagner made sure that did not matter.

[feefifoefum]

I felt this bunch was gonna get hot regardless of who the manager is. Like I said, do not know why I feel this way, there is no evidence to suggest such, its just my hunch.

 

I do see a renewed energy to the team, but I must say, I saw this last week against Arizona as well, but Wagner made sure that did not matter.

 

He made sure it mattered 2 nights ago against the heart of LAA's order.

 

The guy had 1 bad week.

[Jay Lesner]

He made sure it mattered 2 nights ago against the heart of LAA's order.

 

The guy had 1 bad week.

 

 

I agree. Wagner has been good for us all year, he has a bad week and suddenly he's not as good as he was before that.

 

I admit, I was on Wagner's case last week too, but looking back I think he's back to his form.

 

Also, the pessimistic attitude isn't going to solve shit.

[xxi-xxv]

He made sure it mattered 2 nights ago against the heart of LAA's order.

 

The guy had 1 bad week.

 

If you think Wagners troubles in the BIG SPOT are confined to "one bad week" you must have not been not watching the Mets the last couple of years.

Let me refresh shall I.

 

Game 2 2006 NLCS Wagner gives up a game winning homer to the immortal 155 pound Seo Taguchi. Mets lose and do not go up 2-0 in series. Wagners troubles this series promt then manager Willie Randolph to go "against the book" in the deciding game 7 and not use his closer in a tie game at home, which 99% of the time is the route one goes.

 

Aug 30th 2007, Mets are about to get swept in a 4 game series in Philadelphia, Wagner gets rocked for 4 runs and Mets lose and do get swept as he "whines" about getting used for more than 3 outs.

 

Mid June 2007, same scenario vs the Phils, only this time he blows it with being used for only 3 outs, in this case it was no outs and he never got one and Pat Burrel hit a homer back to Philly off him to complete the Phils sweep at Shea.

 

other notables..

 

Loses 4-0 game for Pedro against the Yankees and blames it on that he should not be used in a non save situation.

 

Some other important info on Mr "Big" Time. His career post season ERA is a stellar 8.31, he has pitched 18 innings in the post season yet did not get his first save until 2006 with the Mets against th Dodgers. Of course he has more post season blown saves still then saves, but hey, maybe he was having a bad week then too.

[RandolphScott]

I agree. Wagner has been good for us all year, he has a bad week and suddenly he's not as good as he was before that.

 

I admit, I was on Wagner's case last week too, but looking back I think he's back to his form.

 

Also, the pessimistic attitude isn't going to solve shit.

 

 

 

And neither is the optimistic side where you don't see any faults in the team.

[Jay Lesner]

Isn't that the object of being a fan, to cheer your team on, no matter how they do?

 

I think we can accomplish more by being optimistic, instead of pessimistic.

 

the Mets were (are) going through a tough stretch, and maybe a turnaround is coming by.

[gateb]

Isn't that the object of being a fan, to cheer your team on, no matter how they do?

 

I think we can accomplish more by being optimistic, instead of pessimistic.

 

the Mets were (are) going through a tough stretch, and maybe a turnaround is coming by.

i don't think the mets play will be impacted either way by what message board members are talking about in a sub-section...

[feefifoefum]

If you think Wagners troubles in the BIG SPOT are confined to "one bad week" you must have not been not watching the Mets the last couple of years.

Let me refresh shall I.

 

Game 2 2006 NLCS Wagner gives up a game winning homer to the immortal 155 pound Seo Taguchi. Mets lose and do not go up 2-0 in series. Wagners troubles this series promt then manager Willie Randolph to go "against the book" in the deciding game 7 and not use his closer in a tie game at home, which 99% of the time is the route one goes.

 

Aug 30th 2007, Mets are about to get swept in a 4 game series in Philadelphia, Wagner gets rocked for 4 runs and Mets lose and do get swept as he "whines" about getting used for more than 3 outs.

 

Mid June 2007, same scenario vs the Phils, only this time he blows it with being used for only 3 outs, in this case it was no outs and he never got one and Pat Burrel hit a homer back to Philly off him to complete the Phils sweep at Shea.

 

other notables..

 

Loses 4-0 game for Pedro against the Yankees and blames it on that he should not be used in a non save situation.

 

Some other important info on Mr "Big" Time. His career post season ERA is a stellar 8.31, he has pitched 18 innings in the post season yet did not get his first save until 2006 with the Mets against th Dodgers. Of course he has more post season blown saves still then saves, but hey, maybe he was having a bad week then too.

 

I'm referring to this year. What happened in the past, is in the past. You can't change it. This year, he has been one of the best in the game, and he had one bad week. And his last save was a pretty important one. Is there an available closer out there you'd rather have on this team? Maybe they should give HR Heilman a shot. Or dead arm Sanchez.

 

Wagner must be performing pretty well this season since it took you until ONE BAD WEEK in mid-June to pounce on him. You talk about his 3 run saves, but I think he had more 1 run saves in 06 than any closer in baseball. You know, the year the Mets won 97 games. I'm not a Wagner "apologist" by any stretch, but think it's only fair to give a guy credit when he gets the job done if you are going to bash him everytime he has a bad week. Was his last save not in a BIG SPOT for this team?

 

I can't argue with his postseason experience, if you can really call it that. The guy has played in less postseason games than Jose Reyes.

[xxi-xxv]

I'm referring to this year. What happened in the past, is in the past. You can't change it. This year, he has been one of the best in the game, and he had one bad week. And his last save was a pretty important one. Is there an available closer out there you'd rather have on this team? Maybe they should give HR Heilman a shot. Or dead arm Sanchez.

 

Wagner must be performing pretty well this season since it took you until ONE BAD WEEK in mid-June to pounce on him. You talk about his 3 run saves, but I think he had more 1 run saves in 06 than any closer in baseball. You know, the year the Mets won 97 games. I'm not a Wagner "apologist" by any stretch, but think it's only fair to give a guy credit when he gets the job done if you are going to bash him everytime he has a bad week. Was his last save not in a BIG SPOT for this team?

 

I can't argue with his postseason experience, if you can really call it that. The guy has played in less postseason games than Jose Reyes.

I do not know where to begin with this, so I shall start with what I assume you are not aware of in terms of Wagner and his postseason stats.

 

Are you seriously comparing a position player, who has started every post season game his team has been in with a relief pitcher? If you want to do that you can say Jose Reyes has appeared in more post season games the past 2 years then Mariano Rivera. It makes no sense. Wagners teams appeared in the post season in 1997, 98, 99, 2001 and 2006. He did not record his first save until 2006, yet had blown 2 and had a career post season ERA of 11.87, which actually went up with his 2006 ERA of 16.88.

 

By the way Jose Reyes has appeared in 10 post season games in 1 year of being there, Billy Wagner has appeared in 11. SO you statement, even in its slanted way of comparing a position players games played in the post season with a reilever is completely untrue.

 

Since you did not provide any statistical data to back up your point I have to assume your statement about his 1 run saves in 2006 is also wrong. That one I am checking on.

 

I have been all over Wagner since the day he got here. The guy is a fucking fraud, a loud mouth and a bad teammate. Ask the Phils, Olivr Perez and those in Houston that threw a party when he left town. Had he been good for most of this year? Yes. BUt as usual when the pressure started to mount and the games meant a lot more he spit the bit. WHen you call out your team like he does and use others by name(see Oliie Perez) you best better not pitch like he did in blowing 3 straight games, basically shitting on the 2 best pitching performances the Mets had in Santans and Pelfry 15 innings, 0 runs, 19 k's.

 

By the way, 18 innings pitched in the post season with 3 saves(all in 2006) and 3 blown saves is plenty of a post season career.

 

As to your question of who would be abetter closer here? The answer is sadly no one. Its a shame though that management gave all this money to this overrated windbag instead of gooming a young closer like we should have in 2005.

 

Lets hope he put is shittiness behind him, but the track record says no

[feefifoefum]

I do not know where to begin with this, so I shall start with what I assume you are not aware of in terms of Wagner and his postseason stats.

 

Are you seriously comparing a position player, who has started every post season game his team has been in with a relief pitcher?

 

By the way Jose Reyes has appeared in 10 post season games in 1 year of being there, Billy Wagner has appeared in 11. SO you statement, even in its slanted way of comparing a position players games played in the post season with a reilever is completely untrue.

 

Since you did not provide any statistical data to back up your point I have to assume your statement about his 1 run saves in 2006 is also wrong. That one I am checking on.

 

I have been all over Wagner since the day he got here. The guy is a fucking fraud, a loud mouth and a bad teammate. Ask the Phils, Olivr Perez and those in Houston that threw a party when he left town. Had he been good for most of this year? Yes. BUt as usual when the pressure started to mount and the games meant a lot more he spit the bit. WHen you call out your team like he does and use others by name(see Oliie Perez) you best better not pitch like he did in blowing 3 straight games, basically shitting on the 2 best pitching performances the Mets had in Santans and Pelfry 15 innings, 0 runs, 19 k's.

 

By the way, 18 innings pitched in the post season with 3 saves(all in 2006) and 3 blown saves is plenty of a post season career.

 

As to your question of who would be abetter closer here? The answer is sadly no one. Its a shame though that management gave all this money to this overrated windbag instead of gooming a young closer like we should have in 2005.

 

Lets hope he put is shittiness behind him, but the track record says no

 

I did some searching, and only Hoffman had more 1 run saves in 2006. 18 - 16.

 

As for his postseason experience, I was making the point that it is a very small body of work to judge him on. I have looked it up on 2 different sites, and both say he has pitched 10.1 innings in the postseason, appearing in 1 game each season in 97, 98 and 99 with Houston. I mistakenly thought he had appeared in 8 games when I said Reyes had played in more, (it is 11) and I used Reyes not to compare them as players, but as a reference, Met fan to Met fan, to how little Wagner has pitched in the postseason, (considering the ages and MLB tenure of both players) that a kid who's team made the playoffs one year had more games played than a guy who's been around a long time now. Even for a reliever, 10.1 IP at this point in his career amounts to very little postseason experience. MLB.com also says he has 3 saves in 3 opportunities, (assuming SVO means save opportunities?), including 2 in the Mets' 3 wins in the NLDS in 06. I would never defend his performance in the NLCS, though.

[xxi-xxv]

I did some searching, and only Hoffman had more 1 run saves in 2006. 18 - 16.

 

As for his postseason experience, I was making the point that it is a very small body of work to judge him on. I have looked it up on 2 different sites, and both say he has pitched 10.1 innings in the postseason, appearing in 1 game each season in 97, 98 and 99 with Houston. I mistakenly thought he had appeared in 8 games when I said Reyes had played in more, (it is 11) and I used Reyes not to compare them as players, but as a reference, Met fan to Met fan, to how little Wagner has pitched in the postseason, (considering the ages and MLB tenure of both players) that a kid who's team made the playoffs one year had more games played than a guy who's been around a long time now. Even for a reliever, 10.1 IP at this point in his career amounts to very little postseason experience. MLB.com also says he has 3 saves in 3 opportunities, (assuming SVO means save opportunities?), including 2 in the Mets' 3 wins in the NLDS in 06. I would never defend his performance in the NLCS, though.

He blew game 2 98 against the Padres, he actually wound up getting the win as the Stros came back.

 

Nonetheless, he is our closer and I do not have to like him(I think he is a snake and a bad teammate on top of being an overrated player)but I hope he at the least can help the team win games. I do not like that he does not like to be inserted in what I will call the Goose Gossage situation(2 on 1 out with men on in the 8th and then is expected to pitch the 9th as well), but he is the only alternative.

[feefifoefum]

He blew game 2 98 against the Padres, he actually wound up getting the win as the Stros came back.

 

Nonetheless, he is our closer and I do not have to like him(I think he is a snake and a bad teammate on top of being an overrated player)but I hope he at the least can help the team win games. I do not like that he does not like to be inserted in what I will call the Goose Gossage situation(2 on 1 out with men on in the 8th and then is expected to pitch the 9th as well), but he is the only alternative.

 

I'm not saying you have to like him. I think he is a horrible teammate as well. Believe me, I have cursed him out many times watching him blow games or make them tighter than they have to be, but there aren't many above average closers out there, and I do think he's one of them.