HOUND

Ernie Sims out of FSU would look great in Blue if we can't trade up for Ngata or Bunkley to play alongside Joseph at DT. He's drawn very close comparisons to Derrick Brooks (another Seminole alum) and in his senior year finally played like an NFL stud.

 

I'd rate the potential LBs like this: Sims > Carpenter > Greenway

 

A future LB corps of Pierce, Lavar and Sims would be devastating.

 

The other way I'd go is Cromartie out of Florida to play CB...his skill set looks a lot like Chris McAlister's when McAlister was drafted from Arizona.

 

If neither Cromartie or Sims are available at #25 I'd either draft Eric Winston at LT to protect Eli's blindside or trade down with a team like the Colts and get another 2nd or 3rd in what looks like a very deep draft.

I don't think Cromartie or Sims will be available when we select but either one at 25 would be a steal. I also agree that LT should be on our radar. If we can get Eric Winston in round 1 I'm happy.

I think you left a LB off your list though. D'Meco Ryans would be an excellent pick for us. I'd rather him than Carpenter.

Unless Addai can master blitz pick-up by the end of preseason (doubtful), as well as return kicks (definitely not), there's 0% chance he contributes more than Ward and Morton.

 

Plus, I think Ward is a more talented player. Fans really underestimate him for some reason. He's a solid player.

Actually I read that Addai has the best developed blitz pickup skills of all the RB prospects in this draft.

Despite this I'm still not all that high on the guy. Sure he set the world on fire at the combine with his 40 times but did you see his legs? He looks like a sprinter, not a football player. Those toothpicks are going to get snapped in half unless he puts on more muscle. I'd rather take a flier on a guy like Maurice Jones-Drew than spend a second rounder on Addai.

I underachieved in college too.

And I don't regret a second of it.

Now, see, I was thinking the dead opposite. With DT being one of the few glaring needs remaining on this team, I was thinking more along the lines of being able to trade up, and get one of the better DTs.

 

I don't have a copy of the draft pick value chart handy, so I'm not entirely sure what it would take to move up from 25 to around 15 or so, but if it's a 3rd rounder, I wouldn't mind doing just that. No way I give up a 2nd. But if we go DT in round 1, backup LB in round 2, and WR in the 4th; I'd be more than happy.

This is pure speculation on my part but I don't think Ngata or Bunkley will be there past 12. The Browns draft in that slot and would take either player if they were still available. With teams like Oakland and Buffalo also having major needs at the position I don't see either guy dropping out of the top 12. The 12th pick carries a 1,200 point value. Our pick at 25 is only worth 720 points so we've got to make up another 480 if we have any chance to move up. Our 2nd rounder is only worth 340, so realistically we're talking about having to give up our first, second AND something else to move into that range. High price to pay IMHO. Not only that we technically would need to move higher than 12 as the Browns won't deal that pick if Bunk or Ngata are there as they're the players they covet.

So in other words, forget about trading up to get either of the top 2 tackles.

I've heard the opposite regarding DT. After the top 3, there's a substantial dropoff.

After the top 2 there's a substantial dropoff. Watson is risky.

I dunno Money, I'll be thrilled if we select D'Meco Ryans. I like everything abot the kid and am convinced he'll make some team happy. If Arrington's knees do in fact let us down in the latter part of the year, I'm not nervous at the thought of Ryans filling in. Yes, it's not nearly as much of a need position now that we have Short and Lavar but I still think DT will be a reach/gamble if we go Gabe Watson. If a quality Left Tackle prospect isn't there then Ryans is still a great pick.

Incorrect with the Jags pick. Not only is Daniel Manning a top 7 CB prospect, Kiper has him top 5 in SS, too. Good try, though.

One of these days you guys are going to learn that Kiper is hardly the best source for talent evaluation and draft predictions. He gets the most press, I won't argue that fact. But I'll stick to talent evaluators that are actually current or former NFL scouts.

Manning is not first day corner material.

Been away all weekend, haven't had time to comment, let alone let the Lavar Arrington signing sink in.

 

Don't pat yourself on the back too much with Kiwi. Passing up on Tamba Hali or Kameron Wimbley was a risky move, considering Kiwi's stock has been dropping.

Tamba Hali is a tweener. The Packers already have a tweener pass rusher in KGB. No need to add another one.

Wimbley, similar to Lawson is best suited to a 3-4 base defense which the Pack don't play. I'm not down on either player but neither was a good fit for Green Bay.

I haven't seen where Kiwi's stock is dropping. Hali's on the other hand seems to be falling based on what I've seen.

Good article, horrible thread title.

Glauber goes over the top a bit in the article. The LT references were stale 5 years ago. But the backbone of his argument is something that shouldn't simply be glossed over by Giants fans in the wake of the signing. Lavar, while being incredibly talented, has not lived up to his billing. At least part of his underachieving can be chalked up to his freelancing. I'm sorry but this isn't a minor thing. The game of football is a team concept. The best defenses work because every guy knows his responsibility and conversely knows where his teammates are. If Lavar thinks he's above that concept then there there is potential for major problems. If Lavar lines up with the assignment of covering the tight end but instead decides he can get to the passer and blitzes, he's hanging his teammates out to dry. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this won't happen but if it does, the first guy who needs to get in his face is Pierce. He lobbied for Arrington, he needs to make sure he understands that gloryhogging it simply won't be tolerated.

My first concern in pursuing this signing was money related. I think the front office did a solid job of adding a quality player to a need position without overspending. This was especially impressive considering the Postons are not the easiest cats to deal with.

Now my next concern is that Arrington buys into the system and respects the coaches and his teammates.

Lastly, there's still the issue of his knees. If he breaks down come December, we're in the same spot as last season. However, football is a game of injuries and there's no sense fretting over who will be healthy 8 months from now.

Now that we've got Lavar, we don't need to draft a LB in the first round which actually gives us a ton of flexibility. Id actually like to see us trade down and capitalize on the depth of this draft and pick up an extra third rounder but for this mock I'm going ot have us stay put. Im also going to be using nfldrafcountdown's latest mock and pick from the players left on the board at 25.

 

Round 1: Deangelo Williams RB - I know a lot of you think that Eric Winston is the pick here but I'm not completely sold on him. I dont necessarily think that he's going to be a successful LT in the NFL given his injury history and size. So if Deangelo falls to us he's my choice. This guy has been nothing but great in college and I think is one of the top 10 most talented players in the draft. DW gives us a legit backup if Tiki goes down and will be more than ready to replace him when he chooses to end his HOF career. This is Tiki's replacement IMO. A guy who will be a succssful full time RB. Also, there is no better mentor for him than Barber. Tiki will show him how to work hard, read defenses, etc. This is the ultimate BPA pick and I would love to land Deangelo on draft day.

 

Round 2: Jon Alston LB - Our LB corps are phenomenal right now but some of they're not exactly immune to injury. Alston is one of the most athletic players in the entire draft and would be a great backup to Lavar.

 

Round 3: Dusty Dvoaracek DT - Here we get a smart, hardworking DT that we need to occupy blockers so that our LB's can make plays all day long. He's exactly what we need in the middle to compliment WJ and I think he can be a starter from day 1. This guy's got everything I would want in a DT and would be an ideal pick here.

 

Round 4: Devin Aromashadu WR - A very fast, big receiver who excels at going deep. Is probably a year or two away from being a big threat but he adds another body to compete for the third WR spot. He's got the size and speed you look for in a WR prospect.

 

Round 5: Seppo Evwaraye OT - A huge, talented offensive lineman. He's got the size and speed you look for. From Finland and only started playing football in 1999 so hes very raw. I think that LP is our LT for the next 2 years, regardless of who we draft and maybe 2 years from now, Seppo has refined his technique and can replace LP. He's committed to getting better and is worth the late round pick.

 

Round 7: Shawn Ellis FB - Big guy who likes to hit. Played defense before FB so he can be a big contributor on special teams. Oldschool fullback.

Winston missed the bulk of his junior season with a knee injury. That's the only significant time he missed in his college career, which isn't too shabby considering he started for three years. He returned his senior year and earned All ACC first team honors. Doesn't sound like a guy battling a nagging injury problem to me.

Size??? He's 6'6" 310 lbs. How is that a size problem?

Well if you never believed it in the first place why would you write:

Once again we have proven they have no Contacts and they do nothing but lie and make shit up

??????????

I'm guessing the average 7th grader could've figured out that these guys have been jerking your chain the entire time. Yet you're triumphing over the fact that you've somehow "exposed" them?

Hound I have to ask you, in your opinion, what position is the most important position on the football field? We should both agree that it is QB, am I right? What do you look for in your QB? Me, I look for leadership first and foremost. I told you Im an intangibles type of guy, so im also big on character. Second I look to see if he performs well in the clutch. Third, wins. Fourth, the ability to take over and control a game, the X factor. After that effiency and turnovers. Finally arm strength and accuracy.

 

Vince Young is 22 years old, a national champion, and one of the best prospects to enter this years draft class. You think im crazy? Well maybe I am. Let me set it straight from the start though, Im not a Texas fan and Im not from Houston, I have no reason to be bias. A 6'5″ 230-pound quarterback with superior athleticism and hard to find leadership shouldnt be over looked. The fact that he is the first QB ever to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for a 1,000 all in one season should not be over looked. If you look at the direction of pro QBs, most of them are guys who can move and throw. Young is perhaps one of the best to ever do so.

 

A lot of people compare Vick to Young. Well Vick went number 1 overall in a draft with LaDanian Tomlison. Vick is absolutely outstanding at two things, running and throwing the ball far. He struggles reading the field and with accuracy. Young has far better accuracy than Vick and a completely different type of runner. Vick displays his unbelievable speed and ridiculous agility. Young runs by everyone but it never looks like he is running hard. He makes people miss but rarely does more than a sidestep. Rarely have I seen him run down from behind in a game. For being 6'5" 230lbs thats incredible. Young also ran for almost twice as many yards per season than Vick did at Virginia Tech.

 

Before the 2nd game of the season Young took action. After practice he wrote a challenge on a dry erase board: Anyone who wants to beat Ohio St. show up for 7 on 7. That turned into 11 on 11. It was then when Young gave Texas the sort of attitude and desire it would take to become national champs. That OSU game would become one of the defining games of the season for Texas and would hold one of the defining moments of Youngs career. Young single handedly defeated one of the best defenses in College football with his legs as well as his arm. With 2 1/2 minutes left in the game Young threw the game winning pass to Sweed between a narrow gap of two defenders and the sideline. Later that season he would go on to defeat arguebly one of the best college football teams of all time for the National Championship.

 

Vince Young is now Texas most winning QB in school history, he is also the NCAAs 7th all time QB in winning percentage. He was just a junior, he is only 22 years old. Young has everything you look for on the field and off the field. After the Texas A&M game Young stuck around for an hour and signed every kids shirt that was there. Young is also heavily involved in the longhorn leaders program as well as a constant face in Austin area schools, at charity events and as a motivational speaker.

 

Young is everything you can ask for in a QB for todays game. He has it all, to me there are few better. Young will come out of this draft as the best player.

Pizan - there's very little in your post I disagree with. Despite how I've rated him on a professional level, I'm a big fan of Vince Young the player. I love what he's accomplished. He definitely isn't afraid to work hard to accomplish his goals. I agree that for the most part, the intangibles are all in his favor.

I do feel that on a collegiate level the QB isn't as instrumental as it is in the NFL. Dominating teams can win NCAA National Championships with average QB's. It doesn't happen as often in the NFL. I'll also say that Heisman worthy QB's who elevate their teams level of play don't always have the skill set to even make a roster at the next level. Look at Tommie Frazier and Eric Crouch. I'll even add Gino Toretta to that list, although it pains me to do so since the guy was hardly Heisman worthy.

I completely agree that Young is an incredible athlete with freakish skills. But I'm not convinced that his passing skills are sufficient for the next level. I saw 3 Longhorns games this year, including the National Championship game. I rarely saw him in the position where he even needed to throw under what I consider NFL conditions, which qualifies as any of the following:

- Threading the needle into a tight spot to hit a closely covered receiver.

- Staring down the rush and delivering the ball to a receiver.

- Checking down to 2nd and 3rd options.

Seems like almost every time I saw Young throw the ball he was soft tossing it or lofting it in front of a wide open receiver. I read that the guy has good arm strength but I rarely see it on display. He also worked out of a shotgun way too much which means he likely needs to develop NFL grade footwork.

I'm not predicting he'll be a bust I just don't think he'll be a perennial all-pro either. I think he faces a steep learning curve.

Well they say they have the ear of the FO....They said the Giants dont want LA and that he wasnt even in thier sights....Once again we have proven they have no Contacts and they do nothing but lie and make shit up

Did you really need this signing to figure out they have no contacts in the front office?

Good God, you didn't actually believe that did you?

It's official ...

This is an Exclusive Email for Draft Insiders.com fans. It will be an exclusive service to full subscribers of Draft Insiders.com thru the NFL Draft ‘06.

Draft Insiders.com has learned today that the Giants signed former Washington Redskin linebacker Lavar Arrington to a long term contract. The contract was sent to the NFL league office Friday for approval before an official announcement is made by the club. The official announcement may wait until Monday before the media reports it, but Arrington will play for the G Men after signing a long term deal. Arrington was back in New Jersey on Thursday for a physical that cleared him to sign with the G Men. It was Arrington’s second visit with the Giants after previously speaking to them in early March. The Giants had balked after the initial interview when Arrington refused to take a physical with concerns about the condition of his surgically repaired right knee. With the physical on Thursday, Arrington eliminated any health concerns the Giants had over a long term deal. Arrington wanted to sign a contract before the NFL Draft ‘06 next weekend. He had limited options other than the Giants with only the Packers and possibly the Dolphins interested at this time. The terms of the contract will not be announced until the league approves it but it is not the asking price of seven years, $54 million dollar deal with an eight figure signing bonus. With the Giants, he is re-united with former Redskins teammate Antonio Pierce and former Penn St teammate Brandon Short who resigned with the Giants earlier this week. Short signed only a one year deal and was originally drafted by the Giants but spent the past two seasons with the Panthers. The Giants hold the 25th pick in the ‘06 draft and can address several needs with the OLB position now at their highest priority.

Arrington’s agent is the same agent as linebacker Julian Peterson's agent, Kevin Poston who had signed a seven-year deal with the Seattle Seahawks in March. He played his entire career with the San Fran 49ers.

DraftInsiders.com “The Publication NFL Scouts Buy”

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Some clown on the Skins messageboard was reporting the same thing. He also said the announcement wouldn't be made until Monday.

Sounds like donkeypoo to me.

I did hear that the two sides were going back and forth over the cost of shoulderpads. Not sure if that put a snag in negotiations or not.

I think the Jets should take AJ Hawk then get Brodie Croyle w/ their 29th pick. I thin khe could be a good QB.

Croyle in the first round would be Quincy Carteresque.

Winston has far less upside than Watson has. Plus, I highyl doubt the Giants use their top pick on an offensive players. All indications are that they will concentrate on defense, with or without Arrington in the fold...

Maybe so but he also has a much higher "bust potential". There's no denying we have a need to find and groom a Left Tackle prospect, it's just been overshadowed by our colossal need at OLB. I'm not overlooking how thin we are a DT but I still feel Watson is a major risk in round 1. However Winston is a pretty safe pick and has all the credentials of a franchise Left Tackle. It's not an exciting pick but it would definitely address a need. I don't think we can take protecting Eli's blind side lightly.

Arrington is seeking 13-15 million in guaranteed money. I simply don't see the Giants paying that. I don't think they'd even pay 10 mil. and I fully support that decision.

Hound's Big Board ( had to eat my words on the QB's in the top 15)

1. RB R. Bush

2. DE M. Williams

3. LB A.J. Hawk

4. OT D'Brick

5. DT H. Ngata

6. DT B. Bunkley

7. TE V. Davis

8. DB M. Huff

9. LB E. Sims

10. OT W. Justice

11. DB A. Cromartie

12. WR S. Holmes

13. QB M. Leinart

14. QB J Cutler

15. RB D. Williams

16. C N. Mangold

17. QB V. Young

18. LB C. Greenway

19. WR C. Jackson

20. LB D. Ryans

21. RB L. White

22. DE M. Kiwanuka

23. OT E. Winston

24. LB M. Lawson

25. DT G. Watson

26. CB A. Youboty

27. RB L. Maroney

28. CB J. Williams

29. LB B. Carpenter

30. DB D. Whitner

31. LB D. Jackson

32. DE T. Hali

A quick glance will show this isn't your typical value board. I'm simply not high on this years QB class. It's a strong Defensive draft.

Guy's I tend to be higher on then most:

LB E. Sims

DE M Kiwanuka

Guy's I think are overrated:

All the QB's

DB Jimmy Williams

Watson or Cromartie. No one else is really a solid option. Winston and Moss just aren't round 1 material, while Jackson and Holmes will probably be off the board. DeAngelo Williams? Not happening with our current RB situation.

 

In other words, if the Giants get LaVar ... they swing for the fences.

I'd be OK with Cromartie. I really don't think either of the top wideouts will be there which is fine by me as I'm not interested in going there round 1.

I think DeAngelo Williams will be there but I don't think we'll select him. I like the kid but the coaching staff still doesn't know what they have in Jacobs.

I disagree that Winston isn't first round material. He's the highest rated Miami Offensive Lineman since Bryant McKinnie. He's solid in all phases of the game. I'd be happy if we took him at 25. I really want the Giants to address LT on the first day. Besdies that, I'm OK with every other pick being on the defensive side of tha ball if needed.

I still think there's a handful of players I'd prefer over Watson in round 1. I also think he's more of a gamble than Winston is.

it has become scary...

 

its has become Windex clear...

 

that you posters are clueless to the current state of the NYG's...

 

it wouldnt matter if they signed 12 FA LB's this offseason...you guys think signing a few FA guys that "may" address the immediate is enough to alter the plan that the franchise is trying to set forward for the future ?? i suggest you stick to Madden Football 2006...

 

they have a need, a need for franchise LB's, DT's and DB's, and a draft rich in them, they must ACT ACCORDINGLY and select 2/3 per position from this years draft...

This is hardly a deep Defensive Tackle draft class.

Hey, there were plenty of other good drafts, I just pointed out the one's that stood out to me.

They all still pale in comaprison to Green Bay's:

Rd. 1 LB A.J. Hawk

Rd. 2 DE M. Kiwanuka

Rd. 3 WR Martin Nance

Pizan .. we don't disagree often but on this topic ... I think you're crazy.

Armstead has motivated me. I may have to create my own big board.

If Lavar becomes a Giant suddenly outside linebacker isn't nearly the priority it was, factor in the Short signing too.

That being said, who then becomes the targeted player?

Do we go Offensive Tackle?

Some have said WR.

Do we grab one of the corners?

What is DeAngelo Williams or Lendale White is available?

Do we take the highest rated DT? Likely Gabe Watson.

Thoughts?