HOUND

Can the mods ban a guy for starting a thread this dumb?

Maybe we can trade Frank Walker for Casey Hampton.

I can't imagine going into camp that Kiwi's automatically going to get the nod over Tuck. That's oviously something that has to be earned.

Agreed ... I was getting a bit ahead of myself. If anything Kiwanuka will be the guy seeing little playing time at the outset.

i think the devils will be fine...their at like a 15 day winning streak...and yea after what they did to the rangers

I'm willing to bet that winning streak doesn't reach 19 straight.

It's all a numbers game. Tuck will factor in but barring injury won't start. Ya gotta like having Tuck as your 4th DE on the depth chart. It wasn't long ago that guys like Lance Legree and Keith Washington were getting a lot of PT for us. That likely won't be the case here.

I heard another interview with Ernie three days ago and he said similar things. It's his last year. He'll miss the draft but not the games. They're awfully high on Wilkinson. Lewis may get a shot at DT but needs to bulk up.

That makes some sense, but a first rounder on a part time player is a little expensive IMO.

C'mon Boohyah, I don't think the plan is for Kiwi to be a part time payer his whole career. Several teams work rookies in slowly, especially when the guy ahead of him is ultra talented. It's a win/win for both players.

If you don't like drafting "part time players" I can likely make a better argument against Sinorice Moss, as it's a BIG question mark as to whether he'll ever be an everydown player.

Wow .... receivers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Look at those wunderlic scores!

Check out the Hofstra kid at the head of the class!

How did Martin Nance not get drafted?

While I'm admittedly getting ahead of myself, a Canes-Devils series will be nothing short of outstanding. Living in Raleigh I've seen a lot of Carolina hockey this year. The Canes can play with anyone. Of course this time of year goaltending is what gets you to the next round and I've got to give the Devils the edge there. Cam Ward has been sensational in relief of Martin Gerber. Part of me is nervous his luck will run out, the other part of me thinks he is this years playoff goalie. Seems like every year there's one goalie that takes the playoffs by surprise. Think of Guy Hebert for Anaheim, Kiprusoff of Calgary, and Lalime, back when he was a Penguin. Hopefully Ward is that guy.

he will not have a role in our defense...mark my words...once he lines up vs. a 315lb. tackle with half the skill of D'Brick he will be rendered useless...he is supposedly horrendous vs. the run, and you ever see him rush ?? he doenst run , he lumbers and looks like Frankenstein

Horrible against the run???? What games were you watching? He finished with similar tackle numbers to Mario Williams. Is he a scrub against the run too?

I saw that on Sunday. I wouldn't be surprised if this o-linemen earned himself a ticket to the Broncos with that cheapshot.

Actually Buffalo drafted Butler. But that's a perfect fit to go with the rest of the trainwreck that was the Bills draft!

My only problem with Kiwi is that he was a late 2nd to early 3rd prospect. I though we were reaching a little with a 1st round draft pick. But, i believe in EA.

Gotta disagree there. The only people who might've slotted Kiwi late 2nd or 3rd round completely ignored his body of work in college and totally overemphasized his subpar week at the Senior Bowl. Kiwi would've been first round had he come out after his Junior season. He had some injuires that effected his play and caused him to slip a bit during his senior year but up until December of last year, most draft pubs still ranked him ahead of Mario Williams. Mario exploded at the combine and helped his stock about as well as a player could.

What come to mind is when was the last time ,if ever, an undrafted free agent made the Giant roster and became a starter ??

James Butler

Rich Seubert

Mix is an interesting project. He's a tweener tight end/WR. Think Teyo Johnson. At 6'4", 240 he's likely too large to be a wideout but he ran a 4.45 40 at the combine so he moves well for a man of his size. He's got good hands and competed against quality opposition in the SEC. I'm a bit surprised he wasn't drafted as he definitley has a pro caliber skill set. He isn't the best fit for our offense as we don't typically use an H-back.

Matt Lentz is a big widebody at 6'6", 310 lbs. His best attributes are his size, work ethic, durability and consistency. He's performed well in Michigan's rushing attack although he lacks real explosiveness at the point of contact. His footwork is good although he's a bit slow when pulling and moving through space. He has good technique and sets quickly in pass protection but nees to add strength. He's another guy who should've had his name called. He's a far more polished player than Rich Seubert was when he walked on.

Sir Henry Anderson is a big mobile Defensive Tackle who's flashed playmaking ability. He's a fine athlete but needs to improve his conditioning. He penetrates well but sometimes struggles to diagnose the play and find the ball. He's a bit of a raw talent having sat behind former Oregon State DT Dwan Edwards. When he loses endurance his technique breaks down and he's easily handled by the opposition. He's been far more effective when used in a rotation. Needs to committ to a program to improve his overall conditioning but has the athleticism and size to be a productive defender. And no, I have no idea why he's called "Sir".

I heard Accorsi on the radio last night saying they may even consider Jai Lewis at Defensive Tackle if they feel he can add bulk without losing athleticism.

I don't know much about Darcy Johnson or Marcus Green.

I'll do some research and see what I can dig up on the others.

In looking at him, he actually reminds me a lot of mike. I think that the influence of having strahan on the team to teach our draft picks cannot be emphasized enough. I think he has the most to teach out of any players on our team. A player like Tiki can show someone how to work hard but he cant teach someone to run or have the vision that he does. Someone either has it or they don't. I dont think this is the case with DE. Obviously, rookies will pick up on his work ethic but he also has lots of moves, strategies and information that he can pass on. I think a prime example of this is Osi. I dont think Osi would be anywhere near as good as he is this early in his career without Strahan's influence. And I'm extremely excited that our first round pick also has the opportunity to learn from the best to ever play the game.

Armstead is spot on with his observations concerning the benefits of learning under Strahan. Mike's been an invaluable resource for Osi, who at times seems a bit too cocky for his age. Strahan has kept him in check and made him work hard and take nothing for granted. Strahan learned early on that he'd need to work hard to stick in this league and he's passed that on to Osi. I don't think Kiwi will struggle in this capacity as his work ethic is hardly in doubt.

Keep in mind, despite all the talent we currently have at Defensive End on this team, Mathias Kiwanuka is the highest rated prospect we have at the position. Neither Strahan, Osi, or Tuck carried the draft grade Kiwi does.

I gotta be honest, I didn't like the pick, and I still don't. And before I get beat up for saying that, let me just say that I thought the rest of the draft went very well.

 

I didn't even think it was such a bad idea nabbing another DE, and I get the feeling Accorsie was very high on Tamba Hali as well, but obviously, he was gone. I watched a few BC games, and Kiwi was obviously the main attraction on BC's defense. But from what I saw, he wasn't nearly as impressive as he was touted by the announcers. He was usually a second too slow off the ball, he catches his blocks, and if he gets blocked low, he often gets stopped in his tracks. Plus, he plays a little too high for my taste, and with his height, I truly hope that's something he can improve.

 

And from there, having an awful Senior Bowl doesn't increase my confidence.

 

I don't mean to sound like such a pessimist, but just because the Giants are doing some outstanding PR backing up the pick, still doesn't mean that I'm sold.

I won't beat you up. We're all entitled to our opinion on these guys. I will say though that my view on Kiwi was high before the Giants picked him (I picked him in our MB mock) and it hasn't changed since the draft. I noticed him his Junior season and at the time was hoping he'd come out then.

The one observation you made that I wholeheartedtly disagree with is his jump off the ball. Kiwi is FAST. He's got an explosive first step, although he did play with some leg injuries his senior season so maybe you caught him at less than 100%.

Maybe if THIS didn't happen to Kiwanuka, he plays a full season his senior year.

How the hell can Kiwanuka in the 1st be considered a reach? He's a blue chip Defensive End. If anything he represented incredible value at 32. Now I know we weren't addressing need by taking him but he damn sure isn't a reach.

I think trading up for Moss in the 2nd is much more of a reach.

OK, I know several are frustrated at the selection of Kiwanuka at the end of round 1. I can see where some might feel that we lost an opportunity to fill a need position with the pick. However, targeting a position, and not talent, is a risky approach to the draft. George Young would definitely agree with me here. So instead of dwelling on who we could've had or what we missed out on, I'm going to provide you with some Kiwi highlights in the hopes you'll come to see what I already do ... that in Matthias Kiwanuka, we've got a heck of a football player. There are plenty of other threads whining about what we're lacking. Here's one that hopefully points out what we now have.

Size: 6'6 inches tall. Large frame. Huge wingspan reminiscint of Jevon Kearse. Weight may be a bit light at 265 but he has the frame to add muscle. His agility and athleticism suggests he won't be negatively effected by doing this.

Athleticism: Uses his long arms to keep opposing blockers from engaging him. Is an exceedingly difficult to defender to latch onto. Has quick feet and hands with an explosive burst off the line. Gets upfield incredibly quickly.

Numbers: Earned 1st Team All-ACC honors his Senior season despite playing in only 10 games (he missed 2 contests with minor knee injury after sustaining a cheap shot vs. Virginia). Had 9.5 sacks in those 10 games. Won Big East Defensive Player of the Year Award after a solid junior season. He led the Big East in sacks in back to back years. He had a school record 37.5 sacks in 48 games played. In fact, if you compare his numbers to top pick Mario Williams, Kiwanuka measures up and even exceeds Williams in some areas, although career numbers must be weighted considering Williams came out as a Junior. Kiwanuka's 40 time and broad jump are identical to Williams. Kiwi's one shortcoming appears to be overall strength as he did half the reps on the bench.

Scouting Report: Blue Chip pass rusher with enormous upside. Has the combination of size, speed, quickness, athleticism, agility, experience and proven production to be an impact pass rusher early in his career. Has the fine work ethic coaches look for. Is capable of playing strong or weak side end in 4-3 and projects as an everydown defender. Only lacking area is needs to get stronger but given the commitment demonstrated at the college level, this likely is a quick fix. An NFL caliber weight lifting regimen will pay huge dividends.

I remember watching Kiwanuka as a Junior and thinking he would've been the best Defensive End in last years draft. He played hurt a good deal during his Senior year and still produced solid numbers. This despite receiving consistent double teams. He never should've lasted to the 32nd pick and we got amazing value from the trade.

People throw around the "Best Player Available" phrase all the time here but it's never been truer than it was in this case. For those that feel we're already set at Defensive End thanks to the excellent season just completed by Osi Umenyiora I should point out that Osi was considered by many as a reach in the 2nd round. Kiwi is far more developed as a prospect and likely can contribute earlier if asked to. Would anybody really have a problem having Osi and then "Super Osi", because that's what Kiwi is.

Well, of course Philly is going to get the better players because they draft first. But I think the comparison is between the value of the player Philly got at their pick and the value we got at ours.

I liked Philly's draft too. I hate that they got Bunkley. He shouldn't have fallen that far. Justice in round 2 was a nice trade up too. I don't think either WR pick pans out but I like the LB pick (Gaither). I had him in my Giants mock.

How about DB Daniel Manning going in the second round like I picked him in?

Congratulations. You were right I was wrong. FWIW, I still think it was a horrible pick and the Bears fans I know concur. Jerry Angelo isn't exactly the shrewdest evaluator of talent either.

Kiwanuka is a stud.

Sure it's not a need position but you can never have too many Defensive Ends!

Are there other players or positions I would have rather seen us pursue? Probably, but as far as looking at who we selected and judging ability, you can't say much that's negative about Kiwi.

I loved the trade back with Pittsburgh. I thought we really got a lot in exchange for the swap without missing out on any targeted players.

I thought Peprah was a solid pick in round 5. He carries an immediate starting grade on special teams. He was one of the Defensive Team Captains too so the guy obviously was doing something right. He isn't small but he isn't big either. That being said, his size shouldn't limit him from contributing as a strong safety. Here's some tidbits from Coyle's profile:

Positives: Showed the ability to matchup with tight ends in coverage and fill the lanes in run support. Strong physical player who likes to deliver the hit. Has experience playing cornerback. Good balance, lateral movement and backpedal. Well defined coverage skills that could translate well as a cornerback in a cover 2. Played corner at East-West game and performed well. Displays strong tackling skills and play reading ability. Good closing skills with the ability to separate the ball from the reciever. Is always around the ball in run support and plays like an extra 'backer in the box. Shows good range in the 2 deep cover zone and matches up well in coverage. Nice combination of size, instincts, speed, athleticism, and playmaking ability. Has the tools to devlop into a fine Strong Safety with versatility to play dime early in his career. Solid prospect carrying middle round grade.

Negatives: Will need to adjust to faster playing speed of NFL caliber tight ends. May struggle in this capacity. As a corner prospect, doesn't possess ideal recovery speed.

I was hoping we'd add a safety on day 2. Peprah is a fine prospect and decent value in round 5. There were only 2 other guys I might've preferred with the pick ... DT Rod Wright or LB Omar Gaither. All in all, I've got no complaints with the selection. Something tells me Brimmer and Shivers chances of making the roster just took a hit!

I think the Cowboys best value pick was the safety Watkins. Dallas is going to really put some hits on receivers over the middle with RW and Watkins back there. I loved this prospect and was surprised to see him stick around into the 4th.

Their final round pick Whitley is listed at Center but spent a lot of time at Tackle too. He was nice value in the 7th.

I thought Philly had a strong draft. They're really putting an emphasis on winning the battle in the trenches. They got great value on the second day in LB Omar Gaither, a guy I hoped we'd select. I don't think either of the receiver picks will work out for them. Bunkley is a monster. He and Patterson will form a solid interior.

Redskins gave up a LOT to trade up for Rocky. As usual, I found there draft suspect.

oh, for the record my top 3 were bush, ferguson, and williams. i drafted sinorce moss 4 picks before the giants actually did, and i thought Hound's pick of kiwanuka in the early second round was a very good pick at the time.

I thought it was pure brilliance!

Here's my list of the top undrafted rookies. I was going to create a new thread but this took a while and before I posted it I seen this thread. I have 5 per position and links to all including wild cards. If anyone wants me to put it in a new thread I can, no biggie.

 

QB:

Brett Basenez Northwestern

Marcus Vick V-Tech

Darnell Hackney U.A.B.

Drew Olsen

Bruce Eugene

 

Wild Card -- Quinton Porter

 

RB:

Gerald Riggs Tennessee

Andre Hall South Florida

Mike Bell Arizona

Dontrell Moore New Mexico

Chris Barclay Wake Forest

 

Wild Card -- Derrick Ross Tarleton St.

 

WR:

Martin Nance Miami (OH)

Hank Baskett New Mexico

Greg Lee Pittsburgh

Jovon Bouknight Wyoming

Ed Hinkel Iowa

 

Wild Card -- Drouzon Quillen L. Monroe

 

FB:

Quadrtine Hill Miami

Matt Bernstein Wisconsin

Tahi Naufahu BYU

Shaun Willis Okl. St.

Garrett Mills Tulsa

 

Wild Card -- Brandon Jones Purdue

 

TE:

Cooper Wallace Auburn

Tim Day

Troy Bienemann Washington St.

Tim Massaquoi Michigan

Anthony Mix Auburn

 

OT:

Derrek Morris NC State

Jami Hightower Texas A&M

Dennis Roland Georgia

Albert Toeaina Tennessee

Troy Reddick Auburn

 

OG:

Aldo De La Garza Texas A&M

Tony Tella Miami

Adam Stenavich Michigan

Stefan Wheeler Michigan St.

Cody Douglas Tennessee

 

Wild Card -- Matt Lentz Michigan

 

C:

Mike Degory Florida

Pat Ross Bosten College

Donovan Raiola Wisconsin

 

DE:

Mike Kudla Ohio St.

Eric Henderson Georgia Tech

Willie Evans Mississippi St.

Bryan Copeland Arizona

Matthew Rice Penn St.

 

DT:

Tommy Jackson Auburn

Manaia Brown BYU

McKinley Boykin Ole Miss

Steve Fifita Utah

Sir Henry Anderson Oregon St.

 

Wild Card -- Marcus Green Ohio St.

 

ILB:

Kevis Coley Southern Missouri

Dale Robinson Arizona St.

Kai Parham Virginia

Freddie Roach Alabama

Oliver Hoyte NC St.

 

Wild Card -- Cameron Vaughn LSU

 

OLB:

Spencer Havner UCLA

Brian Iwuh Colorado

William Kershaw Maryland

Will Derting Washington St.

Paul Walkenhorst BYU

 

Wild Card -- Brandon Hoyte Notre Dame

 

CB:

Anwar Phillips Penn St.

Darrell Hunter Miami (OH)

Charles Gordon Kansas

Chijoke Onyenegecha Oklahoma

Tramon Williams Louisiana Tech

 

S:

Dewayne Slay Texas Tech

Jahmile Addae West Virginia

Greg Threat Miami

Scott Ware USC

Marcus Demps San Diego St.

 

Wild Card -- Chris Harrell Penn St.

I'm amazed Martin Nance didn't get selected. I loved this kid. Excellent producer in the MAC. I'm sure he'll get invited to somebody's camp.

Pizan and I agree on this one but I'm mystified as to why QB BRett Basanez didn't get taken. I really thought he could be one of these guys who surprises after being taken second day.

TE Massequoi of Michigan was selected in the 7th round by Tampa.