Mounting evidence that the Texans trade down

[HOUND]

This article on NFL.com details the growing indicators that Bush may not wind up a Texan. Adam Schefter

 

It boils down to a couple of things -

 

The Texans have had no contract talks with Reggie Bush yet they have spoken to DE Mario Williams about a contract.

 

People in the Bush camp readliy admit that they don't get the feeling Houston will select him.

 

Most of the time trade rumors usually have an agenda attached to them but in this case, there really isn't a reason for those who shared information to benefit from it. In other words, these rumors shouldn't be quickly dismissed since the sources have no reason to speculate falsely.

[Money]

Who would trade up for him? Jets?

[Barens]

That would be a disaster for Houston. I understand certain people want to compare Mario Williams to Peppers, which is very generous, but if they select Williams with the first pick overall without trading down...

[parlintm]

Who would trade up for him? Jets?

 

I think it would have to be the Jets since Curtis Martin is done and Bush is a human highlight. I guess you can't rule out Titans, but they need a QB and this is the year for them to get one. The only other team that comes to mind would be the 49ers but they would need to give up a ton to move up 5 spots.

[gateb]

I think the most likely candidate is the Jets even though I wouldn't agree with trading up. If it was for a guy like Eli Manning, then I would agree. But I don't care what Bush could do. This team has way too many needs right now to be giving up high picks for now and the future for one guy, especially with durability questions.

[HOUND]

That would be a disaster for Houston. I understand certain people want to compare Mario Williams to Peppers, which is very generous, but if they select Williams with the first pick overall without trading down...

 

I don't think this is a case of staying put and taking someone else. The Texans would HAVE to trade down if they didn't want Bush.

 

I'd tend to agree that the Jets seem like the most likely candidate to trade up. Minnesota is another team I could see trading up as the yhave an extra 2nd round pick but I can't see them getting the top spot. Besides if they were moving up they'd likely target a QB, not Bush.

 

The Raiders are always a candidate to do something foolish but again, I don't see them moving up for Reggie.

 

This is an odd year. I think the top spots in the draft could be obtained for cheaper prices than we've seen in the past. New Orleans may like it's choices but it doesn't want to pay 2nd pick money. If both they and the Texans are looking at moving back, a team looking to move up could play Houston and New Orleans off each other. It seems like a buyers market right now.

[Money]

I think the most likely candidate is the Jets even though I wouldn't agree with trading up. If it was for a guy like Eli Manning, then I would agree. But I don't care what Bush could do. This team has way too many needs right now to be giving up high picks for now and the future for one guy, especially with durability questions.

 

Bush is a far better prospect than Eli could ever dream of being. There's no question who will be the more memorable NFL player.

 

Durability questions?

[parlintm]

Durability questions?

 

I think it's funny that people can't think of ANYTHING negative to say about Bush since he's the best prospect to come out of college since......?? Vick?? Well, since they can't think of anything negative they just say, well since football is a contact sport he might get injured in the future so we'll just say that he has durability issues so that if he has a career altering injury (very difficult these days given the quality of surgery) they will at least have covered themselves.

[HOUND]

Bush is a far better prospect than Eli could ever dream of being. There's no question who will be the more memorable NFL player.

 

Durability questions?

 

You're kidding right?

 

How is Reggie Bush a lock? Nobody's a lock. I hardly believe there's any guarantee that Reggie will outshine Eli. And looking at it from a positional standpoint, I'd much rather take a gamble for a franchise QB than a franchise RB if I were to trade up.

 

I'm not down on Reggie but to simply say he's already an automatic for the Hall of Fame is a bit much, no?

 

I also think the durability question can be raised about the guy. He's never been asked to run the ball 25 times a game on a consistent basis. Can he hold up to the beating a RB takes in the NFL while logging 300 carries in a season? Nobody knows.

[Money]

You're kidding right?

 

How is Reggie Bush a lock? Nobody's a lock. I hardly believe there's any guarantee that Reggie will outshine Eli. And looking at it from a positional standpoint, I'd much rather take a gamble for a franchise QB than a franchise RB if I were to trade up.

 

I'm not down on Reggie but to simply say he's already an automatic for the Hall of Fame is a bit much, no?

 

I also think the durability question can be raised about the guy. He's never been asked to run the ball 25 times a game on a consistent basis. Can he hold up to the beating a RB takes in the NFL while logging 300 carries in a season? Nobody knows.

 

Eli hasn't exactly shined, and he doesn't have elite talent. Bush is a generational talent, and the only thing that can prevent him from being an elite playmaker is injury.

 

I never said he's an automatic for the Hall of Fame. He's an automatic to be a more memorable player than Eli, who certainly hasn't looked like a future Pro Bowler, let alone Hall of Famer, in his time in the NFL.

 

Is there anything to suggest Bush cannot handle that many carries? He doesn't have a history of injury, nor has anyone questioned his toughness. He's the same size as Tiki Barber, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin give or take 5 pounds.

[Martin]

You're kidding right?

 

How is Reggie Bush a lock? Nobody's a lock. I hardly believe there's any guarantee that Reggie will outshine Eli. And looking at it from a positional standpoint, I'd much rather take a gamble for a franchise QB than a franchise RB if I were to trade up.

 

I'm not down on Reggie but to simply say he's already an automatic for the Hall of Fame is a bit much, no?

 

I also think the durability question can be raised about the guy. He's never been asked to run the ball 25 times a game on a consistent basis. Can he hold up to the beating a RB takes in the NFL while logging 300 carries in a season? Nobody knows.

 

 

I know speculation is what sells newspapers but I dont think its possible to know

for sure how a college player that goes into the NFL will perform.

Over the years I have heard a lot of hype for rookies crossing the line into the NFL

and its a crap shoot. The NFL is truly another animal. It always seems that many

players in the 2nd through 6th round go on to more success.

 

It would be great if there were some type of stats on that issue.

[HOUND]

Eli hasn't exactly shined, and he doesn't have elite talent. Bush is a generational talent, and the only thing that can prevent him from being an elite playmaker is injury.

 

I never said he's an automatic for the Hall of Fame. He's an automatic to be a more memorable player than Eli, who certainly hasn't looked like a future Pro Bowler, let alone Hall of Famer, in his time in the NFL.

 

Is there anything to suggest Bush cannot handle that many carries? He doesn't have a history of injury, nor has anyone questioned his toughness. He's the same size as Tiki Barber, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin give or take 5 pounds.

 

I won't argue that Bush is the higher rated prospect but the discussion pretty much ends there.

 

There simply is no such thing as a guarantee. Comparing Eli's development to date isn't a supporting argument either. QB's always take more time to develop. Most rookie running backs, assuming they can pick up the blitz, can pay immediate dividends.

 

Tony Mandarich was considered the best Tackle prospect the NFL had seen in years. The guy flopped horribly. Sure he was on steroids but it was as if the guy had never played before. His footwork changed overnight. He went from a perfect Offensive Tackle prospect to a useless hunk of flesh in under a year. People still can't explain it.

[Money]

I know speculation is what sells newspapers but I dont think its possible to know

for sure how a college player that goes into the NFL will perform.

Over the years I have heard a lot of hype for rookies crossing the line into the NFL

and its a crap shoot. The NFL is truly another animal. It always seems that many

players in the 2nd through 6th round go on to more success.

 

It would be great if there were some type of stats on that issue.

 

When evaluating the draft, its much more useful to employ an idiographic approach. Making generalizations about a prospect based on the nature of the draft results in a lot of miscalculations.

 

Look at Reggie Bush as an individual. Watch one of his games, or even a highlight reel. Try to locate one weakness in his game or character. He has star written all over him.

[Money]

I won't argue that Bush is the higher rated prospect but the discussion pretty much ends there.

 

There simply is no such thing as a guarantee. Comparing Eli's development to date isn't a supporting argument either. QB's always take more time to develop. Most rookie running backs, assuming they can pick up the blitz, can pay immediate dividends.

 

Tony Mandarich was considered the best Tackle prospect the NFL had seen in years. The guy flopped horribly. Sure he was on steroids but it was as if the guy had never played before. His footwork changed overnight. He went from a perfect Offensive Tackle prospect to a useless hunk of flesh in under a year. People still can't explain it.

 

We're talking about Reggie Bush here. Who cares about Tony Mandarich or previous prospects? Like I said in the previous post, its best to use a case-by-case analysis. The only thing that could prevent Bush from not being a major impact player is injury. The guy is Superman in a football uniform.

 

As for Eli, it isn't a matter of his developmental. It's a matter of his natural ability ... he just doesn't have that much of it. There's no comparison between him and Reggie Bush. Bush has more natural ability than 99% of the starting RBs in pro football. I'd put Eli somewhere in the middle of starting QBs.

[Frank_Grimes]

I also think the durability question can be raised about the guy. He's never been asked to run the ball 25 times a game on a consistent basis. Can he hold up to the beating a RB takes in the NFL while logging 300 carries in a season? Nobody knows.

 

Wasn't that the knock on the Auburn backs last year?

[parlintm]

I think too much time has passed since the end of college football. For those of you who forgot what a freak of nature this reggie bush guy is, check out these highlights:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YoHeZWMqo...h=reggie%20bush

 

For those of you who have not forgotten, they're a great watch anyway.

[HOUND]

We're talking about Reggie Bush here. Who cares about Tony Mandarich or previous prospects? Like I said in the previous post, its best to use a case-by-case analysis. The only thing that could prevent Bush from not being a major impact player is injury. The guy is Superman in a football uniform.

 

As for Eli, it isn't a matter of his developmental. It's a matter of his natural ability ... he just doesn't have that much of it. There's no comparison between him and Reggie Bush. Bush has more natural ability than 99% of the starting RBs in pro football. I'd put Eli somewhere in the middle of starting QBs.

 

Like I said, I agree that Bush deserves to be a higher rated prospect than Eli was. I also agree that if we're judging talent, Bush wins out too.

 

My reason for bringing up Mandarich is to mirror your comments about Bush. He didn't have a perceived weakness, much like your boy Bush, yet he still flopped. There's no such thing as a guarantee.

[HOUND]

Wasn't that the knock on the Auburn backs last year?

 

Looks like it was a valid concern.

[Martin]

When evaluating the draft, its much more useful to employ an idiographic approach. Making generalizations about a prospect based on the nature of the draft results in a lot of miscalculations.

 

Look at Reggie Bush as an individual. Watch one of his games, or even a highlight reel. Try to locate one weakness in his game or character. He has star written all over him.

 

 

im getting the feeling you would love this guy in blue !!!

 

Who do you think will take him?

[Money]

im getting the feeling you would love this guy in blue !!!

 

Who do you think will take him?

 

The Texans if they're smart. Whoever is picking #1 should take Reggie. At worst, he goes 2nd overall.

[parlintm]

im getting the feeling you would love this guy in blue !!!

 

Who do you think will take him?

 

The Texan unless someone is able to trade up to get him (the point of this thread). I think the order of teams most likely to get him is something like this:

Texans

Jets

Titans

49ers

Packers

Raiders

New Orleans

 

I dont think anyone else has a shot. This guy is as big of a lock as you can get and trading up wont come cheaply. If he were only a WR he would still be a 1st rounder simply on his special teams play and ability to get seperation from his defender. This is the most versatile player that I've ever seen enter the draft (granted I'm only 21, but still...)

[Frank_Grimes]

Looks like it was a valid concern.

 

I disagree. Ronnie Brown started 14 games and so did Williams. Williams had that ankle injury that I'd chalk up to bad luck more than being injury prone.

[gateb]

Bush is a far better prospect than Eli could ever dream of being. There's no question who will be the more memorable NFL player.

 

Durability questions?

We don't know if Bush is ready to be one of those 25 rushes a game back in the NFL. And those are the only questions surrounding him, but it is still one to be considered greatly when drafting.

 

Bush is obviously the more talented player coming out of college but we're looking at this trade value wise. Teams are going to dish out more picks and money for a player coming out of college like Eli, who has the pedigree and the numbers to back it up instead of a RB, even Bush.

[Money]

We don't know if Bush is ready to be one of those 25 rushes a game back in the NFL. And those are the only questions surrounding him, but it is still one to be considered greatly when drafting.

 

Bush is obviously the more talented player coming out of college but we're looking at this trade value wise. Teams are going to dish out more picks and money for a player coming out of college like Eli, who has the pedigree and the numbers to back it up instead of a RB, even Bush.

 

That is not durability. Durability refers to a player's ability to stay healthy. Is there any indication that Bush cannot handle that many touches? Same size as Curtis Martin, Tiki Barber, Marshall Faulk. Also, he doesn't have to get his touches on the ground. He can do major damage in the passing game and the return game, too.

 

Bush was a better player in college than Eli, simple as that. Who cares about pedigree?!

[gateb]

That is not durability. Durability refers to a player's ability to stay healthy. Is there any indication that Bush cannot handle that many touches? Same size as Curtis Martin, Tiki Barber, Marshall Faulk. Also, he doesn't have to get his touches on the ground. He can do major damage in the passing game and the return game, too.

 

Bush was a better player in college than Eli, simple as that. Who cares about pedigree?!

Apparently the teams drafting cared.

 

And durability could be used for what I was referring to. Said by the always reliable dictionary.com "Lasting; stable" is one of the defintions for it.

 

I'm not calling out Bush btw. When I said he had durability problems, I was bringing back the segment from Sportscenter a while ago claiming that the only questions surrounding him by scouts is his durability. Hence, durability questions.