Money Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I HAVE BEEN SAYIN WE'RE GOIN TO A 3-4 FOR THE PAST FUCKIN MONTH And no one believed me :brooding: Don't you people realize that you need more than 2 DT's on the roster to play aa 4-3. God open your eyes everyone. We don't have like 8 quality lb's for no reason! You were wrong then and you're still wrong. They aren't moving to a 3-4, especially now that they have invested in 4 guys whose skills best translate to 4-3 DE. Not to mention that we don't have a nose tackle on the roster, which is a pretty key part of a 3-4... Also, our first preseason game is 3 and 1/2 months away. Something tell me we may add some more talent at DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hey Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 You were wrong then and you're still wrong. They aren't moving to a 3-4, especially now that they have invested in 4 guys whose skills best translate to 4-3 DE. Not to mention that we don't have a nose tackle on the roster, which is a pretty key part of a 3-4... Also, our first preseason game is 3 and 1/2 months away. Something tell me we may add some more talent at DT. Who says they can't play and prosper in a 3-4? Maybe something tells me we can add a nose tackle. Anything can happen. But, when you have like 8 lb's vs. 3 DT, that gives a pretty strong indication of a 3-4 imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Who says they can't play and prosper in a 3-4? Maybe something tells me we can add a nose tackle. Anything can happen. But, when you have like 8 lb's vs. 3 DT, that gives a pretty strong indication of a 3-4 imo. DL in a 3-4 are 2-gap players occupy OL so that the back seven can make plays. Relegating Osi and Strahan to such positions completely negates their talents. As a defense, you want to accentuate the talents of you best playmakers, not compromise those talents. Who says they "can't play and prosper in a 3-4"? Anyone who understands the dynamics of the defense and the inherent responsibilities of each position. A 3-4 team has about 10-11 LBs on its final roster. Right now, the Giants have 6-7 LBs that will make the final 53. Simply put, a change to a 3-4 is not in the works, and the selection of Kiwi reinforces that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hey Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 DL in a 3-4 are 2-gap players occupy OL so that the back seven can make plays. Relegating Osi and Strahan to such positions completely negates their talents. As a defense, you want to accentuate the talents of you best playmakers, not compromise those talents. Who says they "can't play and prosper in a 3-4"? Anyone who understands the dynamics of the defense and the inherent responsibilities of each position. A 3-4 team has about 10-11 LBs on its final roster. Right now, the Giants have 6-7 LBs that will make the final 53. Simply put, a change to a 3-4 is not in the works, and the selection of Kiwi reinforces that fact. With lavar and the other OLB rushing, the the OT's would have to pick them up. This leaves osi and starhan one-on-one with the guards and a shorter, quicker distance to the QB. It could be a liability to the run, but Osi is already a liablilty in a 4-3 and strahan could do alright in a 3-4 i think. If these two players are SO GREAT then they should be able to prosper in any defense, and the defense overall would improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 With lavar and the other OLB rushing, the the OT's would have to pick them up. This leaves osi and starhan one-on-one with the guards and a shorter, quicker distance to the QB. It could be a liability to the run, but Osi is already a liablilty in a 4-3 and strahan could do alright in a 3-4 i think. If these two players are SO GREAT then they should be able to prosper in any defense, and the defense overall would improve. So, on plays we blitz multple LBs, we can create mismatches. Well, that's tremendous, except that teams don't blitz nearly as frequently as you seem to assume. If you're blitzing every play, you're getting burned a lot defensively. Osi is a liability against the run? Wow. Not only is that wrong, but it's laughable that you'd suggest he play DE in a 3-4 after describing him in that way. Talk about a major contradiction. You build around great players, you don't turn them into role players. That's Coaching 101 Here, I'll make a deal with you. If the Giants move to a 3-4 (3 down lineman, 4 linebackers starting), you win. If the Giants open their first preseason game with 4 defensive lineman and 3 LBs starting, I win. Whoever wins can have any statement they want placed in the counterparts signature for the duration of the season. Deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 There is no way we go to a 3-4. We do not have the NT and is would neutralize the effectiveness of our Pro-Bowl DEs. We are a 4-3 and we are going to stay that way. -0056 you people cannot read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 40 time is an accurate measure of speed? Come on, Storm ... you know better than that. Terrell Suggs and Antonio Pierce each ran in the 4.8s. Anquan Boldin was a 4.7 guy, and so was Emmitt Smith. There is 0% the team is moving to a 3-4. Their commitment to 4 DEs strongly suggests otherwise. I would agree if it was say 4.6...but almost 4.8 in the forty for a 'pass rushing' DE is a little misleading to me...I can run in the 4.8s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hey Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 Here, I'll make a deal with you. If the Giants move to a 3-4 (3 down lineman, 4 linebackers starting), you win. If the Giants open their first preseason game with 4 defensive lineman and 3 LBs starting, I win. Whoever wins can have any statement they want placed in the counterparts signature for the duration of the season. Deal? who gives a fuck about a quote in their sig? You know i'm not talkin IMMEDIATE transformation don't you. toy with it in re-season and incorporate it during the season so the defense can't get good reads and it causes confusion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 who gives a fuck about a quote in their sig? You know i'm not talkin IMMEDIATE transformation don't you. toy with it in re-season and incorporate it during the season so the defense can't get good reads and it causes confusion im gonna have to agree with money on this one. os is a SPEED guy. we just signed him to a long term contract and he's going to be a keystone of this defense for a long time. he's not a 3-4 guy. neither is lavar. neither is kiwi. it's just not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 im gonna have to agree with money on this one. os is a SPEED guy. we just signed him to a long term contract and he's going to be a keystone of this defense for a long time. he's not a 3-4 guy. neither is lavar. neither is kiwi. it's just not happening. would you guys be so inclined to explain exactly why speed rushers(who i guess are 'undersized' in a 3-4) dont fit into 3-4s? I mean, I understand the fact it frees up an extra offensive lineman for the opposing team, but both osi and mike are rush from the outside most of the time...i guess their occasional inside rush would be negated but they can still bull rush...and if they do get doubled teamed, that's exactly what we need to free up a linebacker to make a play. I know the fact that both would have reduced production but I dont think it's all that of a stretch, unless you guys can explain something I am missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parlintm Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 would you guys be so inclined to explain exactly why speed rushers(who i guess are 'undersized' in a 3-4) dont fit into 3-4s? I mean, I understand the fact it frees up an extra offensive lineman for the opposing team, but both osi and mike are rush from the outside most of the time...i guess their occasional inside rush would be negated but they can still bull rush...and if they do get doubled teamed, that's exactly what we need to free up a linebacker to make a play. I know the fact that both would have reduced production but I dont think it's all that of a stretch, unless you guys can explain something I am missing. In the 3-4 the job of the DT's is to rush INSIDE the OT's. They bull rush the quarterback trying to occupy TWO blockers on every play. This should allow the outside LB, who is actually more like a DE with a running start get a good line on the quarterback. It's all about the LB's on the team making the plays on the quarterback and runningback. Our DE's excel at getting to the QB. This is because they are quick and can put the outside move on the tackles, but they also have the capability to go outside but cutback in. In a 3-4, the DT's can't rush outside of the OT's becuase that would put them out of position. This takes away the strength of Strahan and Osi and mitigates them to the position of undresized defensive tackle who can't use their speed to get to the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I would agree if it was say 4.6...but almost 4.8 in the forty for a 'pass rushing' DE is a little misleading to me...I can run in the 4.8s... A couple things. First, you don't weigh 265 pounds. You probably weigh about half of that. Second, DEs rarely run 40 yards in a straight line. 10-yard dash and shuttle times are probably better assessment tools for DL in general. Third, I've seen various publications that list Kiwi as fast as 4.62. The variance in reports (and this is true for every player) is another problematic issue with regard to 40-time. Mario Williams was in the 4.6s, and Tamba Hali was 4.85 ... and both were top 20 picks. The lesson, when it comes to DL, 40-time is not a primary consideration. Fourth, watch the kid play. I didn't agree with the pick, but I'll concede he does have talent and he does have excellent speed. A lot of people compare him to Simeon Rice, whose no slug either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Money Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 who gives a fuck about a quote in their sig? You know i'm not talkin IMMEDIATE transformation don't you. toy with it in re-season and incorporate it during the season so the defense can't get good reads and it causes confusion If you aren't taking about an immediate transformation, then you should not be bringing Strahan or Arrington into the discussion, as neither will be here long-term. I don't know how many ways to put it, but you're wrong. The current status of the team, positional distribution, and new additions all point to a base 4-3. See Armstead's post for further clarification on the dynamics of a 3-4... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 In the 3-4 the job of the DT's is to rush INSIDE the OT's. They bull rush the quarterback trying to occupy TWO blockers on every play. This should allow the outside LB, who is actually more like a DE with a running start get a good line on the quarterback. It's all about the LB's on the team making the plays on the quarterback and runningback. Our DE's excel at getting to the QB. This is because they are quick and can put the outside move on the tackles, but they also have the capability to go outside but cutback in. In a 3-4, the DT's can't rush outside of the OT's becuase that would put them out of position. This takes away the strength of Strahan and Osi and mitigates them to the position of undresized defensive tackle who can't use their speed to get to the QB. alright, I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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