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It's good to be a Met fan...


Allstarjim
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Some of you might think I am off my rocker by saying that right now. The team hasn't hit very well, there are injuries to be concerned about, and Pelfrey looks like he may not get it together. But there are good reasons to be optimistic.

 

Despite all the struggles, this team is still close to the top of the division and is 2 games over .500

Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, and Castillo have all been slumping badly. But we know that slumps happen, and eventually they are over. We know Beltran will get right and hit near .280 with at least 30 homers and probably have over 100 RBI's. We can reasonably expect even better production from Wright and maybe even Ryan Church. Reyes is still one of the fastest players in the game, and when he gets going this team will win more, he is that important as we all know. And Castillo's hitting has greatly improved over the last two weeks. Delgado may be a bit of a question mark, but I'm not expecting a batting title. We really just need him to hit at least .260 or so, with 25-30 homeruns, and about 85 RBI's, and he is still very capable of doing that.

 

With so many players slumping right now, it stands to reason that they could all end their slumps about the same time. If that happens, this team could win 6 in a row at minimum, or 9 out of 10 games. And Church has all the makings of a fantastic right fielder! It is not out of the question that he could hit .300, with 30 and 100 this year.

 

With all the struggles, the Mets still have the 4th lowest ERA in the National League. When this team starts hitting a bit more, we should win a lot more games. I don't believe Heilman will stink all year. And Matt Wise may be called up tomorrow or by the latest early next week, so that means goodbye to Jorge Sosa thank God! Have we even seen the best from Johan yet? Plus, Pedro and El Duque are making progress in their recoveries, although admittedly that can change at any time. Or they could come up for a cup of coffe and get hurt again that fast. But what if they don't, and they actually turn in a solid 3/4 of a season?

 

Moises is finally back! And he doesn't look old still!

 

Consider also that we haven't had many breaks yet this season. We've already faced John Smoltz (twice), Tim Hudson, Ben Sheets, Carlos Zambrano, Cole Hamels, Brandon Webb, Dan Haren, Brad Penny, and a previously undefeated Micah Owings, not to mention up and comers Chad Billingsley and Jair Jurrjens. There are a lot of legit Cy Young candidates in that group, and we have held our own pretty well against them. We will start to get breaks as the season wears on where we aren't facing Walter Johnson every other day.

 

Yessir, I think things are slowly coming together, and this team could get hot in the very near future!

 

There is reason for optimism!

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koolaid.gif

 

Its been a year since this team has been anything more than .500. Why should I expect anything more now?

 

2007 shellshocked this bunch and its fans.

 

I will be at the game Saturday, if I hear one whiney Met fan boo Santana I am getting arrested

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Because last year's team did not have Johan, Church, Pagan, Schneider, Duaner Sanchez, and for the most part, Pedro. That's why. :TU: This is a different cast and I expect more out of this team. Johan's impact alone will prevent a 2007-like collapse.

 

When this team gets hot, you're going to be the one that didn't believe.

 

 

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Because last year's team did not have Johan, Church, Pagan, Schneider, Duaner Sanchez, and for the most part, Pedro. That's why. :TU: This is a different cast and I expect more out of this team. Johan's impact alone will prevent a 2007-like collapse.

 

When this team gets hot, you're going to be the one that didn't believe.

 

Pagan :LMAO:

 

I stand corrected he is the missing piece!

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Pagan :LMAO:

 

I stand corrected he is the missing piece!

 

See, you are a negative dude. You took the least important player out of those I mentioned and ridiculed it to justify your position that the Mets will be a .500 team this year. I'm almost starting to believe you WANT them to suck. Pagan is a solid 4th outfielder, and that is important to have, especially on our team. I've personally seen him cause a lot of problems for opposing pitchers just on the basepaths. He is not as fast as Reyes, but he's not far behind, either. He's a very good outfielder with a pretty good arm. I would not ridicule Pagan for his place on this team, it's an important one and he's already helped us win some games. But the rest of the players you don't comment on. I think I have a valid point, this team is not the same one that collapsed last year. A couple of things need to happen health wise but they are not out of the question. This team is going to start to hit as the weather warms up and if the pitching just maintains, we are going to win a good deal of games.

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See, you are a negative dude. You took the least important player out of those I mentioned and ridiculed it to justify your position that the Mets will be a .500 team this year. I'm almost starting to believe you WANT them to suck. Pagan is a solid 4th outfielder, and that is important to have, especially on our team. I've personally seen him cause a lot of problems for opposing pitchers just on the basepaths. He is not as fast as Reyes, but he's not far behind, either. He's a very good outfielder with a pretty good arm. I would not ridicule Pagan for his place on this team, it's an important one and he's already helped us win some games. But the rest of the players you don't comment on. I think I have a valid point, this team is not the same one that collapsed last year. A couple of things need to happen health wise but they are not out of the question. This team is going to start to hit as the weather warms up and if the pitching just maintains, we are going to win a good deal of games.

 

Pagan is a 26 year old career minor leaguer with less than 400 major league at bats and you classify him as a solid 4th outfielder? Was it the awesome spring training or the 5 career home runs that justify this position. Endy Chavez is a solid 4th outfielder, Angel Pagan is completely unknown and UNPROVEN. In all honesty I think he is awful defensively seeing the angles he has taken on some balls and if it were not for Moises Alou being 87 years old he would rank last on the team IMO in defensive outfielders behind Endy, Beltran and Church.

 

Let me comment on the rest to make you happy. Santana is what he is and there is no concern there. Schneider is a solid defensive catcher and below average hitter who has a role and should not be counted on for more than that. He is not a key cog, the Mets SHOULD be able to win without him. Pedro? Dude its been almost 2 full years since they have been able to consistently counton Pedro. You cannot be serious thinking he is a key cog. If he gives them 20 starts this year its a bonus. Church? Well he has been very good, but unlike most Met fans I will withold my all star vote until I see it long term. He is a below .270 career hitter, but we Met fans ignore all that. Sanchez? Before I start to place him as someone that is going to take this team above the mediocrity they have displayed for 12 calendar months now can he at least get oh I do not know 25 healthy innings?

 

Depite what you think this is the same CORE team that utterly shit the bed last year. Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Castillo, Heilman, WAGNER. Its very clear this team is experiecing a wickd 2007 hangover. If you think its so easy to overcome a mess like they had in 2007 go check the results of the 1965 Phillies and the 1996 Angels, 2 teams that almost were as bad as what the 2007 Mets did. That is a more valid point as to why they will be nothing more than a .500 team than basin the reasons on a 4th outfielder, a career .270 hitter and 2 injury prone pitchers who have not been consistently healthy in 2 years.

 

Its not negativity dude, its called reality. Have a bite, it will make it easier.

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Hey

J-j-j-jaded

Youve got your mamas style but youre yesterdays child to me

So jaded

You think thats where its at but is that where its supposed to be?

Youre gettin it all over me

And serrated ? ? ?

 

Chorus

My, my, baby blue

(yeah Im thinkin bout you)

My, my, baby blue

Yeah, youre so jaded

And Im the one that jaded you

 

Hey

J-j-j-jaded

In all its misery it will always be what I love and hated

And maybe take a ride to the other side were thinkin of

Well slip into the velvet glove

And be jaded

 

Chorus

(w/) yeah, Im so jaded

And baby Im afraid of you

 

Bridge

Youre thinkin so complicated

Ive had it all up to here

But its so overrated

Love and hate it

Wouldnt trade it

Love me jaded

 

Guitar solo

 

Hey

J-j-j-jaded

There aint no baby please when Im shootin the breeze with her

When everything you see is a blur

And ecstasys what you prefer

 

Chorus

 

(w/) (blue, blue, blue, yeah)

(Im talkin bout you)

(blue, blue, blue, blue yeah)

(yeah, been thinkin bout you)

My, my, baby blue

Yeah, youre so jaded (baby)

Jaded (baby)

Youre so jaded

cause Im the one that jaded you

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You're characterization of Pagan's defensive skills is laughable. His speed alone allows him to get to balls most outfielders can't get to. He came up as a centerfielder need I remind you. He also has an above-average arm by all accounts. I've read several scouting reports on him and NONE of them have had anything negative to say about him defensively. One of them specifically said he takes good routes to balls. I tend to think that major league scouts are more qualified in judging his defensive skills than you. All of them are at minimum complimentary of his defensive skills if not raving about them.

 

That is why he is a solid 4th outfielder. I could go on about his bat... He doesn't set the world on fire but when he gets on he is a threat to steal not only 2nd but 3rd as well, as he did on back to back pitches in the Nationals series. Because he only has 400 at-bats, it may be wise to look at his progression. He debuted at the major league level in 2006 and batted .247, followed that up hitting .264 in 2007, and hitting .281 so far this year with a nice .353 OBP. Point is, he is progressing as a hitter like a lot of players do at the major league level. Few come in right away and hit everything in sight. I know it is early yet as well, but he has done a good job for us. But it is an example of how you are negative. You look at Reyes in a negative light, Shockey, almost everything I read from you is negative in one way or another. I'm just letting you know. That is not realism when you are always EXPECTING things to go bad and assuming the worst in people (Reyes, Shockey). That is negativity. I'm not saying you're an a-hole. You're alright by me. But the negative attitude does get stale sometimes. Can't you just let people have a positive outlook on their team without ruining the party with the .500 comments?

 

I'm also a realist. I never thought Eli would amount to anything, and thought it was a huge mistake to trade for him. But I was wrong and so are you about this team. I'm not saying they are going to win the division, because the Phillies and Braves are also very good, but they will be in this race going down to the last couple of weeks of the season.

 

I will say that Matt Wise is back up on the major league roster and may pitch today in the double-header. But much to my chagrin, Joe Smith, who has done a good job for us, is getting optioned to AAA because he has options left, while Sosa, who throws batting practice, is staying with the big club because he doesn't have options. I say let the guy clear waivers. If somebody picks him up, oh well. Let them deal with teams having a hit parade against him. We'll just bring up Collazo or someone if anyone in the bullpen gets injured.

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BTW, Sanchez does not have a history of being injury-prone. There is every reason to believe he will have an injury-free year for us. His injuries were related to his cab accident, not anything to do with baseball.

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Another thing... I'm not talking about key cogs. Every player makes contributions at one point or another that helps a team (or hurts a team, for that matter). As far as Pedro and the previously unmentioned El Duque, their presence and what they can provide this year will be a big lift. I'm not counting on both of them. But if one of them can stay healthy, we can be very optimistic about what they can provide. If both do, that's a bonus. Out of the two, I think Pedro is the more likely candidate to make it back sooner and stay healthy longer term than El Duque. Last I read Hernandez still had that bunion that was giving him problems in ST. Pedro should be back in 2 to 3 weeks and with the warmer weather, hopefully that will bring looser muscles and less likelihood of those muscle strains.

 

I really have to harp on you about Church. You only commented on his contributions at the plate. As if hitting .270 with his decent power wouldn't be an upgrade over Shawn Green. But defensively, he's a HUGE upgrade over Green. He is better than Green at pretty much every aspect of the game. That counts for something. And by the way, Church is not a BELOW .270 hitter. He is a career .277 hitter, and he has had one season as a fairly regular starter. Like Pagan, I expect him to progress as a hitter. Whether he does or not remains to be seen. But it is not a reach at all to expect him to hit .280, giving us 20 HRs and at least 80 RBI's this year. He has the potential to do much better than that as well, but even if he doesn't, all things considered that is a big upgrade over last year's version of Shawn Green.

 

On to Schneider. Paul Lo Duca didn't hit for us last year either. As you said, Schneider is a good defensive catcher (already an upgrade on Lo Duca). And he has said that Beltran (ironically) has helped him with his approach at the plate contributing to his early season success. Sometimes a change in batting stance is what energizes a guy at the plate and in this case the early returns are good for Schneider. Of course I don't expect him to hit .308 all year like he has, but so far so good.

 

And Santana's presence has a major impact on the rotation that cannot be minimized.

 

So all in all I think that it is not out of the question that this team will compete for the division this year and I will remain cautiously optimistic that they will do so.

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You're characterization of Pagan's defensive skills is laughable. His speed alone allows him to get to balls most outfielders can't get to. He came up as a centerfielder need I remind you. He also has an above-average arm by all accounts. I've read several scouting reports on him and NONE of them have had anything negative to say about him defensively. One of them specifically said he takes good routes to balls. I tend to think that major league scouts are more qualified in judging his defensive skills than you. All of them are at minimum complimentary of his defensive skills if not raving about them.

 

That is why he is a solid 4th outfielder. I could go on about his bat... He doesn't set the world on fire but when he gets on he is a threat to steal not only 2nd but 3rd as well, as he did on back to back pitches in the Nationals series. Because he only has 400 at-bats, it may be wise to look at his progression. He debuted at the major league level in 2006 and batted .247, followed that up hitting .264 in 2007, and hitting .281 so far this year with a nice .353 OBP. Point is, he is progressing as a hitter like a lot of players do at the major league level. Few come in right away and hit everything in sight. I know it is early yet as well, but he has done a good job for us. But it is an example of how you are negative. You look at Reyes in a negative light, Shockey, almost everything I read from you is negative in one way or another. I'm just letting you know. That is not realism when you are always EXPECTING things to go bad and assuming the worst in people (Reyes, Shockey). That is negativity. I'm not saying you're an a-hole. You're alright by me. But the negative attitude does get stale sometimes. Can't you just let people have a positive outlook on their team without ruining the party with the .500 comments?

 

I'm also a realist. I never thought Eli would amount to anything, and thought it was a huge mistake to trade for him. But I was wrong and so are you about this team. I'm not saying they are going to win the division, because the Phillies and Braves are also very good, but they will be in this race going down to the last couple of weeks of the season.

 

I will say that Matt Wise is back up on the major league roster and may pitch today in the double-header. But much to my chagrin, Joe Smith, who has done a good job for us, is getting optioned to AAA because he has options left, while Sosa, who throws batting practice, is staying with the big club because he doesn't have options. I say let the guy clear waivers. If somebody picks him up, oh well. Let them deal with teams having a hit parade against him. We'll just bring up Collazo or someone if anyone in the bullpen gets injured.

 

 

Shockey should stay, no negativity towards him other than he is a jackass. I am and was never negative towards the 2007 Giants, they were never FRAUDS.

 

As for Pagan, here is what I know(and you should as well). He was let go by the Mets, a complete afterthought on EVERY level. They aquired him back, every Met fan fell in love with him based on ST. Did you see Johans game against SMoltz in AtL? It was Pagans complete BUTCHERY of a ROUTINE fly ball that cost him the game. No one knew a goddamn thing about Angel Pagan when he was a Brooklyn Cyclone and no one knew or cared a damn thing about him when he was traded and no one knew a damn thing about him when Los Omar got him back. As usual Met fans overhype a mediocre player and make him WHAT HE IS NOT. I do not need any scouts take to tell me he is a good outfielder, I have seen the man play LF and he is AVERAGE at best.But hey scouts say he is abover average right? They said the same thing about Shawn Abner once upon a time.

 

As for the Mets. I never said they will not be in the race, IMO they will be anywhere from an 84-78 win team. They will be in the race, but if at 140 million thats what you expect to simply "be in the race" then I admire you goal of mediocrity.

 

Smith is getting optioned because his name is Smith and not Sosa, how this team is run should bother you more than the mediocrity all around.

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BTW, Sanchez does not have a history of being injury-prone. There is every reason to believe he will have an injury-free year for us. His injuries were related to his cab accident, not anything to do with baseball.

 

His FIRST injury was due to the cal accident you Dolt, his SECOND one was last year when it did not heal properly and he re tore the muscle.

 

2 years, 2 injuries, yeah shorty thats injury prone no matter how they occur. :TU:

 

Looks good tonight too pom pom jim ;)

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His FIRST injury was due to the cal accident you Dolt, his SECOND one was last year when it did not heal properly and he re tore the muscle.

 

2 years, 2 injuries, yeah shorty thats injury prone no matter how they occur. :TU:

 

Looks good tonight too pom pom jim ;)

 

 

So the 2nd injury was related to the car accident... so in fairness he never healed properly from the first injury. Again, he has had no baseball-related injuries. This team is a playoff caliber team.

 

And I'm still right about Pagan. You can't take one play out and say he sucks. There's been plenty more already this year that he's made that he shouldn't have gotten to but did... He just sacrificed his body the other night for a great catch he had to come a long way for. Willy even said he has a great arm, too, not just the scouts. Darling and Cohen were talking about his good arm about a week or so ago.

 

No need for name-calling.

 

As far as Duaner goes, he wasn't hit hard tonight, a couple seeing eye grounders is what dogged him. Plus I still think he's getting and will get stronger as he gets more work. He is somewhat still working to get back where he was a couple of years ago. His velocity was down tonight more than usual.

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So the 2nd injury was related to the car accident... so in fairness he never healed properly from the first injury. Again, he has had no baseball-related injuries. This team is a playoff caliber team.

 

And I'm still right about Pagan. You can't take one play out and say he sucks. There's been plenty more already this year that he's made that he shouldn't have gotten to but did... He just sacrificed his body the other night for a great catch he had to come a long way for. Willy even said he has a great arm, too, not just the scouts. Darling and Cohen were talking about his good arm about a week or so ago.

 

No need for name-calling.

 

As far as Duaner goes, he wasn't hit hard tonight, a couple seeing eye grounders is what dogged him. Plus I still think he's getting and will get stronger as he gets more work. He is somewhat still working to get back where he was a couple of years ago. His velocity was down tonight more than usual.

 

 

Tell me where I said Pagan "sucks", what I said is he is nothing more than an average 4th outfielder. Both his minor league stats and early major league numbers far support my claim. You are overrating a guy who at the end of the day is a bench player. He is not even as good an outfielder as Chavez and his offense is what it is. You rave about those 2 steals, and what he has this year is 4 STEALS as if this justifies him as some sort of modern day Vince Coleman, he has 2 STEALS in the same game, off the SAME pitcher. Its not like he is doing this every time he gets on base. He was not even a great minor league hitter, topping out at .312 at LOW LEVEL A ball in 2001, hitting .288 in AA and AAA in 04 and a whopping .271 in a full season at AAA in 2005 with a stellar 8 homers and 40 rbis.

 

You should work for Omar selling his organizational maneuvers.

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Tell me where I said Pagan "sucks", what I said is he is nothing more than an average 4th outfielder. Both his minor league stats and early major league numbers far support my claim. You are overrating a guy who at the end of the day is a bench player. He is not even as good an outfielder as Chavez and his offense is what it is. You rave about those 2 steals, and what he has this year is 4 STEALS as if this justifies him as some sort of modern day Vince Coleman, he has 2 STEALS in the same game, off the SAME pitcher. Its not like he is doing this every time he gets on base. He was not even a great minor league hitter, topping out at .312 at LOW LEVEL A ball in 2001, hitting .288 in AA and AAA in 04 and a whopping .271 in a full season at AAA in 2005 with a stellar 8 homers and 40 rbis.

 

You should work for Omar selling his organizational maneuvers.

 

 

Dude, relax. I am not trying to make him out to be Vince Coleman. The only major disagreement that we have is how good he is defensively. I actually agree with most of what you are saying, bud! I agree with you that he is not as good an outfielder as Endy, but that is more of a tribute to how great an outfielder Endy is rather than a dig on Pagan's ability. Endy is outstanding, while Pagan is very good. You mentioned the 4 steals... it's not the stats at this point that is important. It's the fact that he can do it and he is a threat that opposing pitchers and catchers have to worry about. Besides, Reyes only has about 10 steals so far this year, and he is the best base-stealer in the league. Plus, with him hitting .280, that is not bad. He is a patient hitter and can take some walks, so I just look for his on-base percentage. Guys like Pagan the OBP is more important than the BA, because he is a table setter. He's not there to hit homeruns. So I go back to my original point, he is a very good 4th outfielder. There's nothing wrong with that... he has and will help us win more games this year.

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I think pagan is going to be sent down when Wise is activated. That would be the smart thing to do. No one in our pen really should be sent down right now and it'd be nice to have an 8th arm. Easley's played the OF before, I think Marlon has too.

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You are correct, both have played the outfield. They could afford to do that because of both Easley's and Anderson's flexibility. Easley is more of an unpolished outfielder, however. I don't expect that to happen, though. One reason is that Castillo's legs are acting up again and they are going to need those two guys in case he has to sit any length of time, so keeping Pagan up with the big club is probably the best thing to do for now. I do think it is very curious that Wise is up with the big club right now and they haven't made a move yet. I think there is probably a lot of debate going on about what to do. Normally a decision would've been made by now. I think that indicates that they REALLY don't want to have to send Smith down. I kind of think Sosa will clear waivers, though, and if he doesn't, I wouldn't be that upset. I say send Sosa down! If he doesn't clear, you've got Collazo or Muniz at Triple AAA to take his place if the need arises later. Muniz has pitched 12 innings and 11 K's without allowing a run so far this season.

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Maybe we'll just do what the Yanks did with Proctor and Joba. Trade/dump Heilman and call up Kunz and hope to find lightning in a bottle.

 

They also dumped a couple of other relievers last year but i forgot who. I know Myers was one.

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Maybe we'll just do what the Yanks did with Proctor and Joba. Trade/dump Heilman and call up Kunz and hope to find lightning in a bottle.

 

They also dumped a couple of other relievers last year but i forgot who. I know Myers was one.

 

 

They traded Proctor to the Dodgers.

 

I'm sure Proctor started to cry when he found out Torre was hired to manage the Dodgers.

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They traded Proctor to the Dodgers.

 

I'm sure Proctor started to cry when he found out Torre was hired to manage the Dodgers.

Yeah right around the trade deadline last year. It was essentially a dump but they actually good good value for him.. I like Betemit.

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Well Wise is back down with Port St Lucie. Surprise! I think this might have to do with needing Bostick to pitch on Wednesday, however. So they are going to call up Bostick for a start, and will probably option Smith at that time, then optioning Bostick back to AAA after the game, and bringing up Wise. I think this is the way they are going to go, but I really wish they'd keep Smith up with the big club.

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Yessir, I think things are slowly coming together, and this team could get hot in the very near future!

 

There is reason for optimism!

 

Yeah heh? :rolleyes:

 

Now when you say near future, does that mean this decade?

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