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Is Kyle Bush a Walking Dead Man?


BleedinBlue
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I'm not a big Jr. fan, but last night he had a damn good shot at winning the race - his first win in 2 years - but reckless asshole Kyle Bush, who has little respect for the sport and no respect for the veterans took Junior out with a couple laps to go. Now the broadcasters were quick to pile on the bullshit and call it "unfortunate" and "not really Kyles fault", but I know Kyle knew that if he went underneath Jr., that they would get into each other and with Jr. on the outside, Bush would get away clean and Jr. would go into the wall. Therefore Bush went into the turn much faster than he knew his car could handle knowing it would pinch Jr. and take him out.

 

He (Bush) should've been blackflagged. That was total bullshit and I hope the other drivers band together and take Kyle out every time he goes out on the track for the rest of the season.

 

On top of that.....the worst and most obvious bullshit move on the whole night was Hamlin....who knew damn well he had a tire going down for several laps and refused to get off the track.....he also knew very well that his team needed a yellow flag in order for his teammate to have a chance at catching Junior because if Hamlin pits, Jr. wins by a comfortable stretch.....so piece of shit Hamlin came to a dead stop in the turn when he absolutely didn't have to stop - no way, no how....(funny how he was able to just drive away as soon as the yellow came out) . The yellow of course, allowed a restart that gave his teammate the only possible opportunity he had to catch up with Jr.

 

That was bullshit, bullshit, bullshit :furious:

 

That was the most bullshit race I've ever seen. I hope NASCAR has enough brains and balls to hand out penalties that really hurt.....several race suspensions for the entire Gibbs team...or at the least, for Bush and Hamlin. None of this bullshit hand slap with a few hundred thousand dollar fine (which to them, is no big deal and thoroughly worth it). Now if Hamlin was suspended for 3-5 races for purposely causing a yellow to help his teammate and Kyle was suspended for 2-4 races for the reckless way he put Junior into the wall at the end of the race.........maybe those assholes (especially Kyle Bush) would clean up their act.

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I didn't get to see the race, but I heard from a Jr fan that Jr was slow the first couple of laps after a restart. Richmond is not a good place to be a slow leader. And everyones hero Dale Sr made a career out of bullying slow leaders.

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I didn't get to see the race, but I heard from a Jr fan that Jr was slow the first couple of laps after a restart. Richmond is not a good place to be a slow leader. And everyones hero Dale Sr made a career out of bullying slow leaders.

Sure Jr. started out slow. For the first half hour he was working on getting his car to handle right. But in the last 20 laps, Jr. was by far the fastest car and he had a huge lead with 2 or 3 laps to go. His lap times were .3 seconds quicker than Bush's so there was no possible way for Bush to catch up with only two laps to go unless there was a caution and then he could take out Jr. before Jr. got the big lead on him again. That's why Hamlin stopped his car dead in the third turn. That forced a yellow which allowed his taammate to close the gap. Hamlin had led the race for the entire night, but then had a tire going down with 8 laps to go. Rather than pit and change the tire, he continued to race and lose ground until he was at the end of the pack and was getting lapped. With a couple laps to go, he stopped his car in the 3rd turn and parked it until the yellow came out. Once the yellow came out, he started back up and drove into the pits without a drop of help or a drop of trouble.

 

At the restart, Jr. got off good with Bush hanging tight on his tail trying to get under him before Jr. started stretching the lead again. He finally went into a turn much faster than he should have knowing that he was going to end up hitting Jr. since there was no where to go except into the side rear of Jr.'s car. Of course, Jr. smashed his car and Bush survived because he was on the inside.

 

Funny thing is....the crash slowed Bush for just a couple of seconds, long enough for Boyer to slide underneath him and take over the lead. So in the end, Bush still came in second and gained not one single thing other than he successfully smashed up the guy who should've/would've legitimately won the race.

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I don't buy for a second that Hamlin was intentionally doing something that would cause a caution to help anyone other than himself. I think people overstate how much teammates help each other.

 

 

As for Bush wrecking Jr, hey babe, thats racing. He couldn't keep up and had to push the limits of the car, the end result is he wrecked Jr, and as you said, didn't gain anything himself. He very easily could have spun his self out in the process, so I'm failry certain he was not out to wreck Jr.

 

 

 

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I don't buy for a second that Hamlin was intentionally doing something that would cause a caution to help anyone other than himself. I think people overstate how much teammates help each other.

Hamlin led the entire race. He called in and said he had a tire going down. But he stayed out for 3 or 4 laps and the entire field passed him and he was about to get lapped by Jr., who had a quarter track lead over Busch and was increasing his lead with each lap. So Hamlin came to a complete stop in the middle of the track that was totally unnecessary. Caution came out. Then he drove the car away without a drop of assistance (the same speed he had been going for the last several laps) into the pits. No debris on the track, car hadn't stalled, no anything. But it had the effect of stopping the race long enough to let the rest of the cars pack it back in for the last couple laps of the race......and it just happened that his teammate was in second place and had the second fastest car on the track.

 

There was just absolutely no reason for Hamlin to:

 

1) stay out on the track for several laps doing 50 mph slower than the slowest car and letting the entire field pass him without pitting. The announcers were astounded and questioned what he was doing on the track with a flat tire everytime he passed pit road. They all talked about it and couldn't believe he wouldn't get off the track. Darrell Waltrip acted shocked and said, "what is he doing, why is he still on the track and why is he driving by pit lane??? The entire announcing booth was trying to figure out why he wouldn't get off the track and all of them were shocked.

2) and then stop the car dead in the middle of the track since his car had been going 60 or 70 mph for the last few laps and was clearly able to drive away and still do 60 or 70 mph again the instant the caution came out. :confused:

 

If it wasn't intentional, then it was very, very, very poor racing judgement to stay on the track for so long with a flat tire. Once his tire went flat, the race was over for him unless he pitted and got a quick tire change. But by his stopping in the middle of the track and drawing the yellow, it allowed his teammate to make up the quarter of a track lead that Jr. had which would've been impossible since Jr. was running the fastest laps of anyone on the field (they were showing the times and speeds on the monitors) and the announcers were saying no one is able to keep up with him and saying that he clearly had the fastest car in the field.

 

As for Bush wrecking Jr, hey babe, thats racing. He couldn't keep up and had to push the limits of the car, the end result is he wrecked Jr, and as you said, didn't gain anything himself. He very easily could have spun his self out in the process, so I'm failry certain he was not out to wreck Jr.

 

To start with, as I pointed out earlier, Earnhardt had the fastest car and Kyle had the second fastest car. They were timing the laps and it showed Jr. making laps a few tenths of a second quicker than the next fastest car (which was Busch's). The only reason Busch had a chance to catch Jr. was beause of the yellow and at the restart, Jr. was starting to pull away and when they got to the turn Busch went in faster knowing he would end up hitting Jr. If Jr. wasn't there to cushion the blow, Busch would've plowed into the wall and wrecked. Replays showed that Kyle went into the corner so hot that he was already starting to slide out, so he just stayed on the gas and pushed Jr. into the wall.

 

And as you know, when you plow into the side of another racer going into a turn....it's obvious that the one on the outside is the one going into the wall. It's the oldest trick in the world and it's done by drivers who know they can't win the race unless they wreck the leader.

 

Must be the fans at the race picked up on the blatant move by Busch because the entire crowd stood on it's feet and shoved their fists (and middle fingers) into the air as Busch drove by. The crowd booing actually was louder than the entire field of cars. It's the first time I've ever heard that before.

 

BTW.....I'm not a Jr. fan. I root for any driver in a Dodge and cheer primarily for Kahne, Newman, and Kurt Busch. Likewise, I cheer against anyone driving a Toyota and actually like Tony Stewart for the first time in my life because he's dumping Joe Gibbs because he wants to go back to an American car (Chevy), for which I salute him.

 

I think Kyle Busch is out of control and thinks he can crash anyone he wants to crash in order to win...or in this case, come in second (which he would've had he not wrecked Jr.). He thinks its a game out there and is too naive to understand the ramifications of his reckless actions.

 

I don't think what happened last weekend is over. I suspect there are more than a few drivers ready to teach Kyle a lesson. I wouldn't be surprised if Jr. gave him a payback soon. I know the announcers were saying that Kyle better hide someplace where people can't find him and sneak out of the area and keep a real low profile for awhile. They also said he'd be smart to hire a body guard for the rest of the season.

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Hamlin led the entire race. He called in and said he had a tire going down. But he stayed out for 3 or 4 laps and the entire field passed him and he was about to get lapped by Jr., who had a quarter track lead over Busch and was increasing his lead with each lap. So Hamlin came to a complete stop in the middle of the track that was totally unnecessary. Caution came out. Then he drove the car away without a drop of assistance (the same speed he had been going for the last several laps) into the pits. No debris on the track, car hadn't stalled, no anything. But it had the effect of stopping the race long enough to let the rest of the cars pack it back in for the last couple laps of the race......and it just happened that his teammate was in second place and had the second fastest car on the track.

 

There was just absolutely no reason for Hamlin to:

 

1) stay out on the track for several laps doing 50 mph slower than the slowest car and letting the entire field pass him without pitting. The announcers were astounded and questioned what he was doing on the track with a flat tire everytime he passed pit road. They all talked about it and couldn't believe he wouldn't get off the track. Darrell Waltrip acted shocked and said, "what is he doing, why is he still on the track and why is he driving by pit lane??? The entire announcing booth was trying to figure out why he wouldn't get off the track and all of them were shocked.

2) and then stop the car dead in the middle of the track since his car had been going 60 or 70 mph for the last few laps and was clearly able to drive away and still do 60 or 70 mph again the instant the caution came out. :confused:

 

If it wasn't intentional, then it was very, very, very poor racing judgement to stay on the track for so long with a flat tire. Once his tire went flat, the race was over for him unless he pitted and got a quick tire change. But by his stopping in the middle of the track and drawing the yellow, it allowed his teammate to make up the quarter of a track lead that Jr. had which would've been impossible since Jr. was running the fastest laps of anyone on the field (they were showing the times and speeds on the monitors) and the announcers were saying no one is able to keep up with him and saying that he clearly had the fastest car in the field.

 

Or, he felt he could keep enough speed to hold the lead, once he realized he couldn't he forced a caution in order to get new tires without losing a lap, thus either giving him a few laps to get back up front or salvage as many points as possible. Again, busch was the furthest thing from his mind at that time.

To start with, as I pointed out earlier, Earnhardt had the fastest car and Kyle had the second fastest car. They were timing the laps and it showed Jr. making laps a few tenths of a second quicker than the next fastest car (which was Busch's). The only reason Busch had a chance to catch Jr. was beause of the yellow and at the restart, Jr. was starting to pull away and when they got to the turn Busch went in faster knowing he would end up hitting Jr. If Jr. wasn't there to cushion the blow, Busch would've plowed into the wall and wrecked. Replays showed that Kyle went into the corner so hot that he was already starting to slide out, so he just stayed on the gas and pushed Jr. into the wall.

 

And as you know, when you plow into the side of another racer going into a turn....it's obvious that the one on the outside is the one going into the wall. It's the oldest trick in the world and it's done by drivers who know they can't win the race unless they wreck the leader.

 

Must be the fans at the race picked up on the blatant move by Busch because the entire crowd stood on it's feet and shoved their fists (and middle fingers) into the air as Busch drove by. The crowd booing actually was louder than the entire field of cars. It's the first time I've ever heard that before.

 

BTW.....I'm not a Jr. fan. I root for any driver in a Dodge and cheer primarily for Kahne, Newman, and Kurt Busch. Likewise, I cheer against anyone driving a Toyota and actually like Tony Stewart for the first time in my life because he's dumping Joe Gibbs because he wants to go back to an American car (Chevy), for which I salute him.

 

I think Kyle Busch is out of control and thinks he can crash anyone he wants to crash in order to win...or in this case, come in second (which he would've had he not wrecked Jr.). He thinks its a game out there and is too naive to understand the ramifications of his reckless actions.

 

I don't think what happened last weekend is over. I suspect there are more than a few drivers ready to teach Kyle a lesson. I wouldn't be surprised if Jr. gave him a payback soon. I know the announcers were saying that Kyle better hide someplace where people can't find him and sneak out of the area and keep a real low profile for awhile. They also said he'd be smart to hire a body guard for the rest of the season.

 

 

 

Once again, Jr was faster and kyle had to push the car. Dude was trying to win, and had to push the car to it's limits. and anytime you make contact with another car, especially in a corner, you run a big risk of spinning your self out. he went in hot, and was lucky not to wreck himself. At the very least he would slow himself down to the point where someone can (and did) pass him.

 

I don't put much stock in the reactions of jr fans, these are the same people throwing beer cans on the track when Gordon passed Sr for career wins. jr fans think jr is the only one allowed on the track and Sr was the only one allowed to put a finder into another car.

 

 

like i said, Kyle didn't do anything dale Sr never did, along with every other of the old timers. Nascar was built on bent fenders.

 

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Or, he felt he could keep enough speed to hold the lead, once he realized he couldn't he forced a caution in order to get new tires without losing a lap, thus either giving him a few laps to get back up front or salvage as many points as possible. Again, busch was the furthest thing from his mind at that time.

You are basically saying that you know what is going on in Hamlin's head and the team's head.... I think they call that clarevoyance or something. Regardless, the announcers were absolutely flabbergasted that Hamlin wasn't blackflagged two laps before he came to his bullshit dead stop. Hamlin lost of lot of respect by knowledgable fans for pulling that stunt and the flagman should have been fired for not blackflagging Hamlin.

 

Oh yeah, and that big break that Hamlin got for "himself" allowed him to come in 24th. Hell, even Jr. came in 15th with a car that was in pieces and had to pit fr an extended time. If Hamlin had pitted immediately when the tire started going down, he would've finished in the top 10 because most of the cars in the field were "lap cars". He gained NOT a thing for stopping and in fact lost places in the finish because of it....but he did gain the opportunity for another driver on his team to catch up with the leader.

 

Once again, Jr was faster and kyle had to push the car. Dude was trying to win

I certainly understand that some guy wants to win a race.....I worked in a pit crew back in the 70's for several years and am intimately aware of what people will do to win.

 

I am also aware that when there is no possible way to win a race because the lead car is faster, that if you take him out in a restart, you might just be able to win the race with your slower car. Once the faster car gets away....the race is over. So there are slimeballs in every sport who will do anything to win regardless how unethical and how obvious it is.

 

If you didn't see the race, then you missed what happened. When a driver goes into a turn, he has to slow the fuck down just enough to keep from losing traction and crashing. In the race the other night, Kyle knew he had to put Jr. in the wall before Jr. got up to speed and left the field in his dust. Therefore, right off the bat, Kyle went into the turn much faster than his car could possibly hold the track and dove underneath Jr. ...... before the two cars touched, Busch's car was already sliding out of control because his car couldn't hold the track at that speed, but by using the back end of Jr.'s car as a "brake", it successfully took out Jr giving Busch a shot at winning the race with his slower car. And of course, as it turned out, he couldn't even win the race after wrecking Jr. so he gained absolutely nothing except the satisfaction of knowing he crashed Jr. and the fastest car on the track with only two laps to go. Jr. hasn't won a race in over 2 years....and although I'm no Jr. fan, he is a lot like Jimmy Johnson (another driver I don't root for), who is a very clean driver. Jr. deserved to win the race and everyone watching the race knows it.

 

You may call that racing, but to me....it's like the shmuck who's getting beat in a pool game (game of 8-ball) so when his opponent is down to the end of the game with just the 8-ball left, the shmuck lightly taps the cue ball to bury it behind other balls so that his opponent can't possibly even hit the 8-ball and therefore the shmuck wins by default over the better pool player who earned the right to win. Now you would call that, "just playing smart pool"...the "guy just wanted to win like everybody else", but I see it differently. I've only seen about 50 fist fights in my lifetime because some asshole with no class played "dirty pool".... in fact, a couple of years ago in Binghamton (Carnsey's Irish Pub), a couple of guys from North Carolina were in town playing pool. After a local guy played "dirty pool", the guy from North Carolina left the bar and got a shotgun out of his pickup and started blowing the windows out of the front of the bar with 12 gauge slugs. Unfortunately, the only person who got hit was a super nice guy...a Vietnam Vet who had lost one of his his legs in the war. The vet wasn't involved in the pool game and was simply enjoying a beer with friends at the bar. He died on the spot after taking a slug to the back of his neck.

 

Anyway....if you understand the lack of class as well as the ramifications of someone playing "dirty pool"....then you understand exactly how I feel (and millions of other fans) about Kyle Busch after his bullshit move last weekend. Busch should be suspended and heavily fined. But even that wouldn't give him the class he is lacking to be allowed to race in Nascar.

 

There is a reason that Busch was nowhere to be found after the race and why he wouldn't do interviews and even private investigators couldn't locate him. That man was hiding and for good reason. He knew what he did and he knew it was total bullshit and that he feared for his friggin life.

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You are basically saying that you know what is going on in Hamlin's head and the team's head.... I think they call that clarevoyance or something. Regardless, the announcers were absolutely flabbergasted that Hamlin wasn't blackflagged two laps before he came to his bullshit dead stop. Hamlin lost of lot of respect by knowledgable fans for pulling that stunt and the flagman should have been fired for not blackflagging Hamlin.

 

Yep, I guess you did the same since you said he was doing it to help his teammate. guess we'rre a couple clairvoant mother fuckers?

 

 

Oh yeah, and that big break that Hamlin got for "himself" allowed him to come in 24th. Hell, even Jr. came in 15th with a car that was in pieces and had to pit fr an extended time. If Hamlin had pitted immediately when the tire started going down, he would've finished in the top 10 because most of the cars in the field were "lap cars". He gained NOT a thing for stopping and in fact lost places in the finish because of it....but he did gain the opportunity for another driver on his team to catch up with the leader.

:LMAO: You're telling me, that a driver passed up the opportunity to finish 10 places higher (when he could of as easily finished much worse0 so he could help his teammate have a very small chance to win instead of take 2nd/ again. :LMAO:

 

Was Hamlin fined? docked points? surely a move like that would warrant a fine.

 

 

From everything I've read on the net, what I'm hearing is he didn't know for sure his tire was flat, and his crew chief said to keep going to be sure. Especially when the race was near over.

 

I am also aware that when there is no possible way to win a race because the lead car is faster, that if you take him out in a restart, you might just be able to win the race with your slower car. Once the faster car gets away....the race is over. So there are slimeballs in every sport who will do anything to win regardless how unethical and how obvious it is.

 

 

Yeah, his name was dale Earnhardt Sr.

 

 

If you didn't see the race, then you missed what happened. When a driver goes into a turn, he has to slow the fuck down just enough to keep from losing traction and crashing. In the race the other night, Kyle knew he had to put Jr. in the wall before Jr. got up to speed and left the field in his dust. Therefore, right off the bat, Kyle went into the turn much faster than his car could possibly hold the track and dove underneath Jr. ...... before the two cars touched, Busch's car was already sliding out of control because his car couldn't hold the track at that speed, but by using the back end of Jr.'s car as a "brake", it successfully took out Jr giving Busch a shot at winning the race with his slower car. And of course, as it turned out, he couldn't even win the race after wrecking Jr. so he gained absolutely nothing except the satisfaction of knowing he crashed Jr. and the fastest car on the track with only two laps to go. Jr. hasn't won a race in over 2 years....and although I'm no Jr. fan, he is a lot like Jimmy Johnson (another driver I don't root for), who is a very clean driver. Jr. deserved to win the race and everyone watching the race knows it.

 

 

So he was out of control before even touching Jr/ So basically, he intentionally lost control of his vehicle, slammed into another car but knew he would be safe because the other car would keep him from the wall/ At 140 + mph Kyle managed to lose control of the vehicle on purpose so he could wreck jr? Forgive me if i find that a bit difficult to swallow.

 

 

 

Oh, and as for jr beiong classy and clean, he admitted to wrecking kyle last year at kansas during the Chase.

 

 

You may call that racing, but to me....it's like the shmuck who's getting beat in a pool game (game of 8-ball) so when his opponent is down to the end of the game with just the 8-ball left, the shmuck lightly taps the cue ball to bury it behind other balls so that his opponent can't possibly even hit the 8-ball and therefore the shmuck wins by default over the better pool player who earned the right to win. Now you would call that, "just playing smart pool"...the "guy just wanted to win like everybody else", but I see it differently. I've only seen about 50 fist fights in my lifetime because some asshole with no class played "dirty pool".... in fact, a couple of years ago in Binghamton (Carnsey's Irish Pub), a couple of guys from North Carolina were in town playing pool. After a local guy played "dirty pool", the guy from North Carolina left the bar and got a shotgun out of his pickup and started blowing the windows out of the front of the bar with 12 gauge slugs. Unfortunately, the only person who got hit was a super nice guy...a Vietnam Vet who had lost one of his his legs in the war. The vet wasn't involved in the pool game and was simply enjoying a beer with friends at the bar. He died on the spot after taking a slug to the back of his neck.

 

 

So the moral of this story is....don't watch dudes play pool?

 

Anyway....if you understand the lack of class as well as the ramifications of someone playing "dirty pool"....then you understand exactly how I feel (and millions of other fans) about Kyle Busch after his bullshit move last weekend. Busch should be suspended and heavily fined. But even that wouldn't give him the class he is lacking to be allowed to race in Nascar.

 

There is a reason that Busch was nowhere to be found after the race and why he wouldn't do interviews and even private investigators couldn't locate him. That man was hiding and for good reason. He knew what he did and he knew it was total bullshit and that he feared for his friggin life.

 

 

 

On;y, they're not playing pool, their racing hard with millions of dollars on the line. I applaud Busch for having the courage to play checkers or wreckers racing, so many of the pansies in nascar today are scared to put a fender in someone and go for a win.

 

 

Oh, and as for millions of people agreeing with you, I'd be willing to bet that jr being Nascars most popular driver has something to do with it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, just watched the vid of the wreck, THIS is what we're arguing about? i envisioned kyle shooting up the track and taking out Jr. fuck, Jr came down into KYLE.

 

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Yep, I guess you did the same since you said he was doing it to help his teammate. guess we'rre a couple clairvoant mother fuckers?

:LMAO:

Lots a laughs...you're right.

You're telling me, that a driver passed up the opportunity to finish 10 places higher (when he could of as easily finished much worse0 so he could help his teammate have a very small chance to win instead of take 2nd/ again. :LMAO:

That's what I'm saying. Seems to be the general consensus across the nation as well. Darrel Waltrip defended him over and over from the booth.....but as a paid spokesman for Toyota, D.W. does little to hide the fact that he roots for all the Toyota drivers and plugs for Toyota whenever possible. If a Toyota was leading the race towards the end and it was also the fastest car...D.W. would have blistered the driver who took the Toyota out with a bullshit move......especially the double-bullshit move (i.e., teammate stops to force yellow so teammate can catch up with leader and crash him into the wall). Regardless, Waltrips Toyota bias is sickening and so evident that he really needs to be thrown off the air. One time when he was fielding questions, a caller told him that he was losing interest in Nascar because now they've got japanese cars on the track. I never saw D.W. so livid and he chastised the man and told him that "no one thinks that way...it's all about the drivers, not the car manufacturer"....which is total bullshit. But the way he responded tells me that he's heard the same story from all over the nation and as a paid spokesman for Toyota, he's under attack for plugging for them.

Was Hamlin fined? docked points? surely a move like that would warrant a fine.

YUP...he was docked two laps and given a severe warning by officials who were furious with him. They called it intentional and "unsportsmanlike conduct". If he pulls another stunt like that during the season he will be suspended for a time.

From everything I've read on the net, what I'm hearing is he didn't know for sure his tire was flat, and his crew chief said to keep going to be sure. Especially when the race was near over.

The conversation between Hamlin and his crew was broadcast on TV and he clearly said he had a tire going down. It was also pretty obvious as the entire field passed him because he was going so slow for several laps. Each time he drove by pit road without pulling in, the broadcasters kept saying, "what is he doing"?

Yeah, his name was dale Earnhardt Sr.

You're right. Kyle Busch is the same as Dale Sr. Personally, the only driver I'd put in the same category as Sr. is Tony Stewart who isn't afraid to "play badly" when provoked. Busch doesn't get provoked, he simply crashes other drivers for his benefit even if there is no benefit. But I'll give him credit. He is proving that japanese cars are ten times better than any American piece of shit trying to race. The entire country of Japan has Kyle as their new hero by showing American cars that Japanese cars are better. Between him and D.W. (paid mouthpiece by Toyota), it's only a matter of time before Nascar consists of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mazda.

So he was out of control before even touching Jr/ So basically, he intentionally lost control of his vehicle, slammed into another car but knew he would be safe because the other car would keep him from the wall/ At 140 + mph Kyle managed to lose control of the vehicle on purpose so he could wreck jr? Forgive me if i find that a bit difficult to swallow.

Bingo! If you've watched Kyle drive this past season, it shouldn't be hard to swallow. He's dirty as they come and has zero class.

Oh, and as for jr beiong classy and clean, he admitted to wrecking kyle last year at kansas during the Chase.
Generally speaking, Jr. is a pretty clean driver. He is far, far ahead of Kyle in terms of class. There was a time when youngsters weren't allowed to move up to the big cup series until they proved themselves in the minor circuit. That doesn't mean "fast" and reckless...as plenty of youngsters are "fast" and reckless....it means they have the mental stability to respect the other drivers. Kyle needs a couple of more years of seasoning on the junior circuit until he proves he fully understands the nature of racing with the big boys. He wants to make a name for himself at 21 years old instead of proving himself over a long period like the real pros. With his mindset, it is only a matter of time before he kills someone or kills himself.

So the moral of this story is....don't watch dudes play pool?

On;y, they're not playing pool, their racing hard with millions of dollars on the line. I applaud Busch for having the courage to play checkers or wreckers racing, so many of the pansies in nascar today are scared to put a fender in someone and go for a win.

That's where we differ. I don't cheer for dirty pool players and I don't cheer for slower cars smashing faster cars because it's the only possible way to win.

Oh, and as for millions of people agreeing with you, I'd be willing to bet that jr being Nascars most popular driver has something to do with it.

You're probably right there....however, I have never been a Jr. fan, but simply a Nascar fan. But I'm quickly getting where I'm losing interest in the sport. Nascar used to be about American cars racing each other on American tracks in front of American fans in cars that actually resembled the models we drove on the street. With Japan throwing their cars in the mix and races being taken out of the country ..... Nascar should really be renamed IAINRMM series (International Assoc. of Identical Cars that have No Resemblance to the Manufacturer Models). Nascar wants to become the international version of IROC. The idea of stock car racing at a high level in America has become a myth. It's like going to the ice cream store and finding out they offer 14 flavors....all vanilla and all identical in flavor and texture....but each vanilla is sponsered by your favorite company from around the world so pick your favorite company....be it KIA or Fuji or whatever, and enjoy your ice cream.

Lol, just watched the vid of the wreck, THIS is what we're arguing about? i envisioned kyle shooting up the track and taking out Jr. fuck, Jr came down into KYLE.

The night of the race they showed the replay over and over in slow mo so the crash could be analyzed in depth. Kyle's ass end was coming unglued because he came into the corner too hot, but it didn't matter because Jr.'s car was there to act as a buffer to the wall. Had Busch not taken out Jr., Jr. would have walked away from the field after that turn as his car was running perfect and by far, the fastest car on the track during the last 20 laps. It was setup perfect and timers proved there was no car in the field that could catch him. Busch knew that....that's why he realized his only chance at winning was to take Jr. out.

 

Regardless....let's take up this discussion after Kyle Busch kills Jeff Gordon or Kyle Petty or Jimmy Johnson or Matt Kenseth or kasey Kahn or..............

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Lots a laughs...you're right.

 

That's what I'm saying. Seems to be the general consensus across the nation as well. Darrel Waltrip defended him over and over from the booth.....but as a paid spokesman for Toyota, D.W. does little to hide the fact that he roots for all the Toyota drivers and plugs for Toyota whenever possible. If a Toyota was leading the race towards the end and it was also the fastest car...D.W. would have blistered the driver who took the Toyota out with a bullshit move......especially the double-bullshit move (i.e., teammate stops to force yellow so teammate can catch up with leader and crash him into the wall). Regardless, Waltrips Toyota bias is sickening and so evident that he really needs to be thrown off the air. One time when he was fielding questions, a caller told him that he was losing interest in Nascar because now they've got japanese cars on the track. I never saw D.W. so livid and he chastised the man and told him that "no one thinks that way...it's all about the drivers, not the car manufacturer"....which is total bullshit. But the way he responded tells me that he's heard the same story from all over the nation and as a paid spokesman for Toyota, he's under attack for plugging for them.

 

 

I in know way sponser Toyotas in nascar.

 

YUP...he was docked two laps and given a severe warning by officials who were furious with him. They called it intentional and "unsportsmanlike conduct". If he pulls another stunt like that during the season he will be suspended for a time.

 

 

I knew about the docked laps, i was refering to after the race. of course someone who intentionally stops in the racetrack is going to get an in race punishment, if nascar felt his intent was to help his teammate and help alter the outcome of a race when he was out of contention, he would have been fined at the least and his crew chirf, if he were in on the plot, would have been suspended for a few races

 

The conversation between Hamlin and his crew was broadcast on TV and he clearly said he had a tire going down. It was also pretty obvious as the entire field passed him because he was going so slow for several laps. Each time he drove by pit road without pulling in, the broadcasters kept saying, "what is he doing"?

 

 

I didn't read the transcripts, but I read an article on nascar.com that said Denny thought he had a tire going down, his crew chief told him to stay on the track until he's sure it's a tire. if you're in a race and you "think" something is happening, you'd better be sure thats it because an unscheduled pit stop is going to cost you a lot of track position.

 

The difference between 15th and 25th is about 30 points, not a great deal for 1 single race, but when you take into account last's years championship was won by a margin of 77 points. 2006 was seperated by 56 points. 2005 was 35. 2004 was 8. The you can see that finishing as high as possible in the chase standings when the chase starts, to get those extra points is imparative. i just cannot believe Denny sacrificed arouind 30 points to help his teammate who had only a slight chance of pulling off the move with the intentions you say he had.

 

 

You're right. Kyle Busch is the same as Dale Sr. Personally, the only driver I'd put in the same category as Sr. is Tony Stewart who isn't afraid to "play badly" when provoked. Busch doesn't get provoked, he simply crashes other drivers for his benefit even if there is no benefit. But I'll give him credit. He is proving that japanese cars are ten times better than any American piece of shit trying to race. The entire country of Japan has Kyle as their new hero by showing American cars that Japanese cars are better. Between him and D.W. (paid mouthpiece by Toyota), it's only a matter of time before Nascar consists of Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and Mazda.

 

 

Tony doesn't get provoked, matt kenseth didn't provoke him at daytona when tony wrecked him after bitching all week about bump drafting. And you're giving Sr too much credit, if the race was coming to a close and you stood in his way of a chance to win, he wrecked you, that was the bottom line.

 

 

Sr would drive through the infield and finish the race in reverse if it meant he'd win instead of coming in second, thats the same deal with Kyle. Kyle doesn't play "oh excuse me I need to pass" racing, he runs that car till it won't run no more and if he takes a driver out in the process, tough shit,, thats racing and thats how it's always been.

 

 

Bingo! If you've watched Kyle drive this past season, it shouldn't be hard to swallow. He's dirty as they come and has zero class.

Generally speaking, Jr. is a pretty clean driver. He is far, far ahead of Kyle in terms of class. There was a time when youngsters weren't allowed to move up to the big cup series until they proved themselves in the minor circuit. That doesn't mean "fast" and reckless...as plenty of youngsters are "fast" and reckless....it means they have the mental stability to respect the other drivers. Kyle needs a couple of more years of seasoning on the junior circuit until he proves he fully understands the nature of racing with the big boys. He wants to make a name for himself at 21 years old instead of proving himself over a long period like the real pros. With his mindset, it is only a matter of time before he kills someone or kills himself.

 

You mean a time when guys line Swervin Ernie irvin were held back? or Cale yarbourough? Jimmy Spencer (who never forgets btw)

 

That's where we differ. I don't cheer for dirty pool players and I don't cheer for slower cars smashing faster cars because it's the only possible way to win.

 

I don't cheer for dirty pool players, but i do cheer for a driver who wants to win at all costs. if a driver is willing to just say ;'hey, ain't nothin' wrong with silver", then that ain't racing, thats driving.

 

You're probably right there....however, I have never been a Jr. fan, but simply a Nascar fan. But I'm quickly getting where I'm losing interest in the sport. Nascar used to be about American cars racing each other on American tracks in front of American fans in cars that actually resembled the models we drove on the street. With Japan throwing their cars in the mix and races being taken out of the country ..... Nascar should really be renamed IAINRMM series (International Assoc. of Identical Cars that have No Resemblance to the Manufacturer Models). Nascar wants to become the international version of IROC. The idea of stock car racing at a high level in America has become a myth. It's like going to the ice cream store and finding out they offer 14 flavors....all vanilla and all identical in flavor and texture....but each vanilla is sponsered by your favorite company from around the world so pick your favorite company....be it KIA or Fuji or whatever, and enjoy your ice cream.

 

No argument from me there. I hate that yoters are in nascar, and I've said for years they should run what they bring, not 43 cars off the same assembly line.

 

The night of the race they showed the replay over and over in slow mo so the crash could be analyzed in depth. Kyle's ass end was coming unglued because he came into the corner too hot, but it didn't matter because Jr.'s car was there to act as a buffer to the wall. Had Busch not taken out Jr., Jr. would have walked away from the field after that turn as his car was running perfect and by far, the fastest car on the track during the last 20 laps. It was setup perfect and timers proved there was no car in the field that could catch him. Busch knew that....that's why he realized his only chance at winning was to take Jr. out.

 

Again, i watched the vid on youtube a few times, slow mo and all, and jr came down into kyle. Was Kyle going to fast? maybe, but he held his line and Jr came down the track. I know he was following the groove and all that, but from what you've said in this thread i was under the impression Kyle went out of his way to hit jr, that just wasn't the case.

 

 

Regardless....let's take up this discussion after Kyle Busch kills Jeff Gordon or Kyle Petty or Jimmy Johnson or Matt Kenseth or kasey Kahn or...........
...

 

 

by all means, lets...And lets have this same discussion when Tony Stewart kills someone, or Clint Bowyer, carl edwards, Kevin harvick. All agressive drivers.

 

 

 

oh, and if jr needs some driving lessons, maybe he can go to the gregg biffle school of keeping the car under control. The infamous Kyle Busch last night did a similar move to the biff, right front into biff's left rear. Biff was sideways for about half the turn and managed to straighten it out and only lose a few positions.

 

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