Barens

There's lots of impressive footage of Chad Greenway. Some folks might be back on his bandwagon after watching his clips.

By telling the FO what he wants and what he thinks will be good for the team he is taking a step in the right direction...

How is that taking a step in the right direction? And when has he ever been shy about telling the front office what he wants? Do you think that be telling the front office he wants another WR, he's going to gain any more chemistry with the WR's he's playing with? I doubt it.

Gabe Watson I don't necassarily see as boom or bust. I see a small chance that he'll be an excellant pro, and a good chance he'll be an average player to fill that need of a being space eater in the NFL for years to come. IMO, he will just be a volatile player, in that you never know what your going to get with him year in and year out. He might have something to prove going into his rookie season, play very well, and come in the following year and not live up to those same expectations.

All in all, I'm really against taking Watson at #25 if he's on the board, and I think he'll just be the type of player who's going to drive fans crazy.

24 TD's - 11-5 record - NFC east Champ - multiple come from behind wins -

 

You want him to take a leadership role but when he does you criticize him...Once again you show you are only here to troll and add nothing to the conversation

Lemmiwink's, for Eli to publicly state he wants to draft a WR is not taking a leadership role.

i wasnt comparing their careers, i was comparing how jacobs performed very well in preseason, to ron dayne performing very well in preseason, to show that it can't be used to judge a player's ability. i'm glad you mentioned that jacobs had 7 TDs on 38 carries. i DO believe that he is a good goal line runningback and has shown potential to be a great GOAL LINE runningback. however, i havent seen relevant evidence that suggests that he is featured-back material. i would not call college performance (especially at southern illilois) or preseason performance, relevant.

Well, in my opinion, I would call a strong pre-season, followed by the 7 TD's on 38 carries relevant, especially for a rookie. And besides, there aren't many teams left who soley rely on one featured back anymore.

Either way, I agree with your first opinion that if a running back is available as the best player on the board, I would hope we take him as well. And while rookie RB's have more of a tendency to come in and perform relatively well, I like the idea of drafting a running back and not rushing him into action. Clearly, that approach has helped Tiki Barber in extending his career.

Assessing depth takes more than simply counting the number of players on the roster listed at each position. If Petitgout goes down in week 1 do you really want Whitfield as the starting Left Tackle for the remainder of the season? Whereas if Toomer is injured Carter and Taylor likely get more playing time. You tell me which is a worse scenario.

 

I still wouldn't say we're deep at LB either.

I don't know too many teams who have the luxory of carrying 3 offensive left tackles, let alone 5 OT's altogether. And if we do draft an OT in the first round, we're going to have a lot of money invested in that position between Petitgout, McKenzie and a #1.

My point was though, it could go in either direction, and if I had a choice between either Eric Winston or Sinorice Moss, I'd hope they go with the latter. I'm not terribly high on Winston, and I think we can get similar talent in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft at OT if need be.

As far as our linebacker situation goes, we're certainly in much better shape than we were in last week. That's not to say I don't think we'll invest a draft pick at some point in the draft, but the Giants have certainly put themselves in a much better position heading into the draft as far as not having to draft for need.

People like Moss because despite his size, he's got great speed, and great hands, and he could be used in a variety of ways. I certainly wouldn't be dissapointed if we used our 1st round pick on Moss.

The thing you have to keep in mind, is that besides DT, the Giants are fairly deep at just about every other position right now, and just because we have 6+ WR's on the roster, doesn't mean they can't look to upgrade, or take the best available player. We also have 4 OT's on our roster, 6 CB's(not including Peterson), 4 running backs, 4 DE's, a crop full of safeties and LB's, it's all relative. And for the most part, Burress and Tyree are the only 2 players who are virtually garanteed a roster spot.

I'm not really in favor of selecting a WR with the first pick or any other pick, but if it happens to be Moss, I'd be pretty happy.

my opinion on this subject is this: if a runningback, such as deangelo williams, is the best player on the board, by a significant margin, we should take him. i think it's just illogical to take a player who you dont think is the best player on the board.

 

i'm not sold on jacobs, i saw ron dayne look very good in preseason back in 04 too, so preseason is definately not something i would use to guage a player's ability. i do think jacobs has the makings of a good runningback other than his height, but in his extremely limited NFL action, it's hard to tell how good he actually is.

I will never understand how anyone can compare Ron Dayne and Brandon Jacobs. Dayne was used in the same fashion as Jacobs was last year(although really, Jacobs had a lesser role than Dayne had in his first couple of years), and yet, when you look at it, Jacobs had 7 TD's on 38 carries. In Dayne's best year, he had 7 TD's on 180 carries, and quite frankly, I would be willing to bet that if Jacobs got 180 carries in a year, we wouldn't be dissapointed with the results.

http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=112&p=2&c=523563

NFL Judging Prospects' Character

USC's Justice was suspended for the 2004 season. By: Aaron Wilson

RavensInsider.com

Date: Apr 24, 2006

If flashing blue lights, handcuffs, jail cells, drugs, violence and arrogance define a football player’s past, then it’s likely to affect his future with ramifications beyond the justice system. The NFL is watching and judging.

Beating up his girlfriend, using or selling drugs, or brandishing a gun can cost a draft prospect millions of dollars.

In their search for character over characters, teams have to make multiple subjective calls to determine whether a player is a troubled young man who might grow into a responsible adult or a recalcitrant thug who’s unlikely to change his spots.

“For me, character is critical,” said Baltimore Ravens director of college scouting Eric DeCosta, who operates as general manager Ozzie Newsome’s top draft advisor. “I’m always concerned. We get a lot of information from different outlets about players’ backgrounds and families or if they’ve been arrested. I’ve gotten to the point where I’ll just look at Ozzie and I’ll say, ‘Ozzie, do we really want to deal with this guy?’ and he’ll say, ‘No, take him down.’

“Character has become a bigger issue every year. In most cases, guys that we actually take off the board end up screwing up. I see the names of the different players getting in trouble around the league and I say, ‘Ozzie, they don’t change.’ We like to think that they may change, but in most cases they don’t.”

Recognizing personality flaws or gauging the sincerity of an apology from a usually well-coached athlete requires more than extensive security background checks, the Wonderlic intelligence and logic exam or consulting a psychologist.

It usually involves relying on gut instincts and experience to decide whether someone has truly learned their lesson or is merely promising to clean up their act just to play in the NFL.

Ravens coach Brian Billick likes to tell the story of an interview at the scouting combine with a gifted player with a troubled background.

"I'm sitting across from this kid and it's late and we're both tired, and I just decide to get right to the point,” Billick said. “So I said, 'Let's cut to the chase, are you a thug or are you just stupid?' The kid says, 'Are those the only choices?' That was all I needed to hear."

Billick said the unnamed player wound up being drafted high and has done well in the NFL.

Will Virginia Tech quarterback Marcus Vick, the troubled younger brother of Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, have a similar fate?

Vick was arrested, but not convicted of having sex with a 15-year old girl. He was convicted of giving alcohol to three underage girls. He pleaded guilty to possession of marijuana and reckless driving.

He was permanently dismissed from the Hokies’ football program after stomping on the calf of Louisville defensive end Elvis Dumerville. He lied about apologizing to Dumerville.

Vick once flipped off the West Virginia fans and elbowed a coach in the back of his head. He was charged with brandishing a loaded gun in a McDonald’s parking lot after being kicked off the team.

Can the NFL trust him?

“I’m just trying to show the world I’m not the person that some people make me out to be, some kind of bad guy like the villain,” Vick said. “I wasn’t raised that way. Anybody that really knows me knows that.”

The Ravens are interested in USC offensive tackle Winston Justice, who was suspended for the entire 2004 season for pointing a toy gun at a student. He pleaded no contest the previous year to solicitation of prostitution in his hometown of Long Beach, Calif and received three years of probation.

Contrite and apologetic about the incidents, Justice seems to have done some damage control. And it certainly doesn’t hurt that the 6-foot-6, 320-pounder is capable of a 39-inch vertical leap, 38 repetitions of 225 pounds and 5.0 speed in the 40-yard dash.

“I'm always going to be sorry about it, but it’s in the past," Justice said. "I'm trying to live day by day to show people that I am a good-character guy."

In the case of Florida State linebacker A.J. Nicholson, he was accused of sexual assault of a 19-year old girl at the team hotel prior to the Orange Bowl. The charge was dropped and Nicholson was remorseful when asked about the incident.

"I made a mistake," Nicholson said. "I'm deeply sorry that I let my team down. I was wrong to ask her to leave. That made her mad and that's why she said what she said. It won't ever happen again."

However, it wasn’t his first brush with the law. Nicholson was charged with two separate alcohol-related offenses within a one-year span leading up to his senior season in 2005.

One incident involved him resisting arrest after police tried to kick him out of a Tallahassee, Fla., night club for disorderly conduct and drinking violations. The police had to subdue him with a Taser gun.

“I probably wouldn’t draft him,” DeCosta said. “He’s not a guy that would be of great interest to the Ravens.”

Attitude can affect a player’s draft stock, too.

Virginia Tech cornerback Jimmy Williams has been criticized by some scouts, who claimed he had an aloof, arrogant attitude during interviews.

“Every team has a different interpretation of a player,” DeCosta said. “We interviewed Jimmy Williams and he was fine. I didn’t have any problems with him.”

LSU defensive tackle Claude Wroten would seem to fall into the danger category for the Ravens even though he’s immensely gifted and the team could use a good interior lineman.

Wroten would likely have been drafted in the first round if not for his felony arrest in January for marijuana possession with intent to distribute. The charge was ultimately dropped because of a technicality, but Wroten was kicked out of the Senior Bowl because of the incident and teams are highly concerned about investing a high draft pick and big money in him. He flunked a drug test for marijuana at the scouting combine and has acknowledged failing tests during his junior year.

“I think Wroten gives everybody pause,” DeCosta said. “The guy was arrested for possession and possible trafficking charges. It’s a concern. He was probably a top 20 pick and now he’s in the second, third or fourth round area depending on a team’s threshold for what they want to deal with.”

The Ravens have taken risks on character in the past, but avoided a major one during their first draft in 1996 when they passed on Nebraska running back Lawrence Phillips because of his history of domestic violence and drafted UCLA offensive tackle Jonathan Ogden with the fourth overall selection.

The squeaky-clean Ogden is considered a lock for the Hall of Fame. Phillips has constantly been in trouble and is out of the NFL.

The Ravens have had several players involved in high-profile legal turmoil, including: linebacker Ray Lewis (murder charges dropped, convicted of obstruction of justice) and running back Jamal Lewis (pleaded guilty in cocaine conspiracy case, served four months in prison).

“I don’t think you judge a person on one mistake,” Newsome said. “I’m a firm believer that people can make a mistake and recover from it and become a very good citizen. We’ve seen that and stood by players who have.

“Character is when a person continuously makes mistakes or they continually do something wrong. Those are the players that I say, ‘No, they are not changing and can’t be turned around.’”

TROUBLED YOUTH?

Here’s a look at college prospects with a history of off-field issues or attitude problems that could affect their stock in the NFL draft.

LSU DT Claude Wroten: Felony arrest for marijuana possession with intent to distribute dismissed on a technicality, but was kicked out of the Senior Bowl for the incident. Acknowledged a history of failed drug tests for marijuana usage.

Virginia Tech QB Marcus Vick: Arrested for brandishing a firearm; stomped on leg of a Louisville defender, convicted of contributing to delinquency of a minor, charged with reckless driving and marijuana possession and driving while license revoked.

Florida State LB Ernie Sims: Domestic violence arrest involving his live-in girlfriend, pleaded no contest to reduced charge of disorderly conduct

USC OT Winston Justice: Pleaded no contest to solicitation of prostitution, suspended for an entire season in 2004 for exhibiting a replica firearm and received three years of probation.

Florida State DT Brodrick Bunkley: Pleaded no contest to stealing a video game, received probation.

Virginia Tech cornerback Jimmy Williams: Some teams complained that he was arrogant at the scouting combine.

Florida State LB A.J. Nicholson: Accused of sexual assault, but no charges were filed. Charged with resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and drinking violations with police subduing him with a Taser gun.

USC RB Lendale White: Overweight, injured and thought to be lazy.

USC QB Matt Leinart: Scouts wonder if he's too enamored of the Hollywood scene.

Georgia TE Leonard Pope: Suspended for violating team rules.

Georgia OG Max Jean-Gilles: Questions about conditioning, dedication.

Central Florida WR Brandon Marshall: Arrested for trespassing and resisting arrest at a Denny’s restaurant

Oklahoma DT Dusty Dvoracek: Admitted alcoholic has cleaned up his act since undergoing counseling and treatment after a series of alcohol-related bar fights.

Georgia CB Demario Minter: Arrested for marijuana possession, received probation and community service.

Penn State CB Anwar Phillips: Accused of sexual assault and indecent aggravated assault by a female student. Expelled for two semesters, but was acquitted by a jury.

What is with you and the stupid reference to the Jets and their QB situation and comparing it to the Giants RB "situation". This is so dumb. We are not thin at RB. Believe me if anything happens Tiki the Giants will certainly turn to Jacobs/ Ward. I don't think their is anybody in the Giants org that wouldn't be curious to see what Jacobs could do with more downs, it just won't be at the expense of Tiki .

 

At worse the Giants can pick up backup in the 2nd round of cuts in June, where there will be plenty of guys floating around looking for work.

We're not thin at running back, but we're not exactly thin in many other areas either besides DT. If the best player available happens to be a running back on the first day of the draft, I think it would be a great idea to draft a running back.

I certainly have plenty of confidence in Jacobs, but with Barber, noone really knows when his last year will be. I don't think it would hurt at all to draft a young guy who can play along with Jacobs in the near future. And if it happens to be a guy like Addai, Calhoun or Drew, a little more speed in the backfield wouldn't hurt our offense.

I'm in favor of drafting a RB at some point in this draft, and I actually like the idea of drafting Addie. Even more, I'd love to see the Giants take a shot on Brian Calhoun if he's still waiting in the wings.

I'm not that high on Ward as our #2 or #3 RB. I think overall, he's OK, but it's not like that backup spot has got his name written all over it. If we lost Barber for a long period of time, I would not be comfortable with Ward handling most of the running back duties. But either way, if a rookie is brought in, let there be a competition. If the Giants can find a rookie running back to come in and contribute, and have a chance at becoming a good player down the road with Brandon Jacobs, I'm all for it. It's not like rookie running backs needs to wait 3 or 4 years to get to crack the starting lineup anymore.

Hey, there were plenty of other good drafts, I just pointed out the one's that stood out to me.

 

They all still pale in comaprison to Green Bay's:

 

Rd. 1 LB A.J. Hawk

Rd. 2 DE M. Kiwanuka

Rd. 3 WR Martin Nance

Been away all weekend, haven't had time to comment, let alone let the Lavar Arrington signing sink in.

Don't pat yourself on the back too much with Kiwi. Passing up on Tamba Hali or Kameron Wimbley was a risky move, considering Kiwi's stock has been dropping.

That would be a disaster for Houston. I understand certain people want to compare Mario Williams to Peppers, which is very generous, but if they select Williams with the first pick overall without trading down...

Do you mean add Trueblood to the list of 2nd rounders that you like? If so I agree with that. As for RB, I dont like Calhoun. He's too small and weak for me. Addai, I like but I think next year is the year to draft a RB. I still think we should give Ward and Jacobs another year as backups before we decide that we need a new franchise RB.

 

As for the WR need, I dont want to get into this discussion again but Ill just sum up my thoughts on this one. 1. I dont think we can rely on Toomer to play 16+ games again this year.

2. Our slot receivers are Toomer/Carter. Combined they have 1 career TD and about 400 receiving yards. Neither of them has shown enough to be counted on as a legit #2 WR if Toomer or Plax gets injured or even the abiliity to be a decent, consistent slot receiver. We dont need something fancy here, just a little consistency.

3. Bringing in a talented rookie ensures some quality competition for the slot receiving position in training camp. Since Carter or Taylor has gotten injured every year, we need some new blood.

4. If Plax gets benched for some reason (not out of the question given his relationship w/ Coughlin) we need someone to step up and I dont want to rely on the Taylor/Carter duo.

5. Toomer will likely retire after this year or the next and we don't have anybody on the roster to replace him.

 

I dont rank WR ahead or OLB or DT in terms of need, I just think that we can get good value by drafting someone in either the 2nd or 3rd round.

 

That said, I'm not terribly attached to this pick and would be happy to draft someone like Orr in the fourth. I just think we need another WR for the aforementioned reasons.

Trueblood is a prospect I'd actually rather stay away from...he had trouble with many of the defensive prospects during the Senior Bowl weak, and I just don't think he's a good left tackle prospect.

Calhoun, I completely disagree with you here. He's got average to below average size for a running back, but how does that make him weak? I think he can be an explosive player, and his speed out of the backfield could be a huge boost to the offense.

After Toomer and Plax, we still have Carter, a supposed healthier Taylor, and Tyree. And while they don't have the stats to predict any kind of breakout season, I think they certainly can be capable if thrusted into a starting role. As much as I like Jacobs, I'd rather be more insured if Barber went down, than if Plax or Toomer went down with an injury.

First, I completely agree with the 2 players you'd stay away from, and I'd also like to add OT Jeremy Trueblood to that list, at least for first day picks. Orien Harris I wouldn't completely stay away from, but again, only if he falls into the 4th round. I think he can actually be a solid, but not spectacular player.

Demetrius Williams I happen to like, but I think he's a bit of a reach for our second round pick, and I still don't know why you consider WR such a great need. We've got plenty of depth right now, plus, it's a fairly weak WR draft class. I think ifhe'savailable in the 3rd, then he'd be a good option, but IMO, there will be better options in the 2nd round.

I do like your other options and I would like to add 2 more...Brian Calhoun, RB Wisconson and Joseph Addie, RB LSU. Who knows if they'll still be around in the 2nd, but I think either would be an excellent addition to the offense. Both are speedy RB's, who excel at catching the ball out of the backfield, and either would work well splitting carries with Brandon Jacobs in the future, and maybe even insurance in case Barber gets injured.

Regarding myself, in all liklihood, I won't be available to make a 4th round selection. I'll do my best to PM a list of players if it comes to that, but we should determine whether we're going to go that route so people can prepare.

IMO, for the most part, the offensive side of the ball has a slight advantage during the Senior Bowl, because CB's have to play 7 yards off the ball and can't press, and the linebackers can't blitz. The offenses might be scaled back, but a lot of the aggressiveness gets taken away from the defensive back 7.

I agree, Wimbley's stock has definitely risen.

 

I've gotta agree that he really shouldn't be taken by a team that doesn't plan to employ a 3-4. I'd also say he's a bit overrated at this point. Seems like a 2nd rounder to me.

Although the one team I'd like to see stay away from him, is Dallas. I think even if they get him in the first round, then their defense could become very scary.

He really uped his stock after having a great Senior Bowl, and had an amazing workout at the combine. With his size and speed, teams feel they can play him at both OLB or DE, and for teams who run a 3-4, some scouts feel Wimbley could make an impact similar to Demarcus Ware.

"Two defensive backs coming off of injury are shooting up draft boards. Both Antonio Cromartie and Jason Allen have solidified themselves as first round choices and may end up in the middle of the frame.

The Chicago Bears are very high on Cromartie but think it is entirely possible the Florida State cornerback could be off the board by the 26th pick. The Jacksonville Jaguars also like Cromartie and would select the defensive back even though they just signed Brian Williams in free agency."

Trade down possibility?

http://nfldraft.scout.com/2/520124.html

Prospect News and Notes: the draft draws near

By: TFY Draft Preview

Date: Apr 13, 2006

A little more than two weeks before draft weekend and the talk is really heating up. Who are the hot prospects on the rise and which direction are teams looking? What about the remaining free agents? Here's a look at the latest insider news.

After his pro-day at the start of March we reported several teams moved linebacker AJ Hawk near the top of their draft board. Several franchises rate him as the top defensive player in this draft. This still holds true today as teams with early selections such as the New Orleans Saints have Hawk as the second best player on their board.

Yet the dilemma remains; do you take a linebacker with the second pick of the draft when an offensive tackle and defensive end of almost equal grade are also available? It is a tough call for the Saints and as a result expect them to use all their allotted time in round one trying to trade down.

Where will Hawk end up? He won't get past the Green Bay Packers at five and don't be surprised if the Jets scoop him up at number four.

Haloti Ngata is another player causing a stir. Teams such as the Philadelphia Eagles and Baltimore Ravens seemed poised to make a move ahead of the Cleveland Browns should the big run stuffer get past the Buffalo Bills at number eight. Ngata may not last that long as the Oakland Raiders have shown a lot of interest in the Oregon product recently.

We are hearing the labeling of Ngata not being a defender who plays hard for sixty minutes is a one-sided story.

Seems the staff at Oregon, usually known for "over-coaching" players, went very easy on Ngata the three years he dressed for the Ducks, never pushing the big lineman. In fact many thought Ngata was babied in Eugene as there was a desire not to over-work the highest rated high-school player to be recruited by the program in some time.

Not to worry as sources have told us Ngata has done everything asked of him, plus some, in workouts leading to the combine and his pro-day.

Two defensive backs coming off of injury are shooting up draft boards. Both Antonio Cromartie and Jason Allen have solidified themselves as first round choices and may end up in the middle of the frame.

The Chicago Bears are very high on Cromartie but think it is entirely possible the Florida State cornerback could be off the board by the 26th pick. The Jacksonville Jaguars also like Cromartie and would select the defensive back even though they just signed Brian Williams in free agency.

It is quite possible the Miami Dolphins take a stab at Cromartie as sources have told us right now the teams decision could come down to the Florida State product of Jason Allen of Tennessee.

With the recent trade of Sammy Davis, the Chargers could bring Jamar Fletcher back into the mix. Another team also vying for the services of the former first round choice is the Atlanta Falcons.

There are only 2 things I would have to disagree with you on, the first being I think that Jimmy Williams is overrated in run support. I've seen him play in quite a few games, and for a man his size, he seems to be taking more punishment than giving. I would not call him a big hitter at all. And I don't think Tye Hill will be a bust by any means. If anything, I think he can be someone who can be the more consistent CB's with his game. I don't think he'll be spectaular, but I think his overall technique is better than advertised.

Otherwise, I think your spot on.