parlintm

Thanks for posting that chart. It shows Cofield was among the strongest and most athletic DTs in this draft. He's a perfect fit here. Personally my favorite pick of the draft.

i like barry a lot. as pizan has pointed out, one of the strongest AND quickest DT's in the draft. great combination. he's my second favorite pick behind gerris wilkerson.

Oshinowo or Wright

There are still a lot of DT's on the board.

I think Oshinowo is a possibility but I dont like Wright.

you dont like what he did in the National Championship? Besides that 4th down stop at the end he had a better game than Reggie.

I could name 15 great games that Ron Dayne had a Wisconsin. I just think the difference between college and pro defenses will be too much for him.

I think this is a great late round pick for our team. Luke, regardless of who we might have drafted, is our LT for this year and next. He's a solid player and would not be cut next year in favor of an up and coming rookie. So hopefully in 2 years Guy Whimper willl have developed into a solid LT for us. He's definitely talented enough.

No, Lendale is going to be a fine back in the NFL. I like his style of play a lot.

He's a big back who likes to dance around like a small back. I think that's a recipe for disaster as we experienced first hand with Ron "No Gain" Dayne. The point is, I can undertand passing on him in favor of another position, especially given the quality of our backups.

I like this pick. His only obvious weakness is the pass rush, something we definitely don't need from our DT. He's a big, strong guy and I think has the potential to join our rotation.

Solid DT. Obviously he was ranked higher than Babatunde, Lewis, Wright, Harris.

6-4 304 4.94 -- pretty good numbers.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingr...rrycofield.html

Also, I can't wait for Lendale to be labelled as a "bust." All of you who are saying you wanted him right now will pretend like you knew he would suck and praise EA for passing on him, just like you would have.

Winston Justice is a 6-7 315 pound OT who was projected as a top 15 pick. He had a 37 inch vertical. That shows you is athletisism. He had some off-thefield problems in the past though. But he could have easily been ready to take over for Puke in 07. EA doesnt even look his way.

 

Chad Jackson is clearly better than Moss, he had more cathes, yards, TD's. He is bigger, faster and has more experiance. But no, we trade up to get Moss, when Jackson was there at 32.

 

Lendale White rushed for 22 TD's and would make a great succesor to Tiki....but tell EA that.

 

Rocky McIntosh

Kelly Jennings (at 25)

Marcus McNeil (in round 2)

 

I could go on and on...here is how I would grade the picks thus far....

 

Mathias Kianuka: C-

Sinorice Moss: B

Gerris Wilkonson: B (this was a good pick)

Winston Justice - Got arrested a few too many times for me. I'm glad the Giants organization stuck with the "classy" mentality and avoided this guy. Obviously he plummetted on draft day and many teams wanted to stay away from him. They did that for a reason.

Chad Jackson - Definitely more talented than moss but kiwi is a better prospect than either of them and was the better player available. The Giants even said that they had Moss as the highest rated WR in the draft, implying that they didnt think Jackson or Holmes were worththy of the first round. Interesting thought, and I'm curious to see how those guys develop. He also can't return kicks, Moss can.

Gerris Wilkerson - Phenomenal pick. Can't wait to see this guy on special teams. I don't think hes a big drop off from Mcintosh (someone you wanted in the first).

Babutunde, LeKevin Smith I'm very high on, Kyle Williams, and then maybe Orien Harris.

thats my order of preference too. looks like we'll be able to get one of them.

he's a beast! webster is unathletic (by a cornerback's standards) when he's healthy. i'm not saying he'd be great his first year, i'm just not too high on webster. i've never thought he was really talented. in college he was a 'right place, right time' kind of guy. we can still really use some help at cornerback, i still don't see our situation as a long term solution.

i dont think it's a longterm solution because we dont have a guy to play opposite webster. but the point is we are not improving this position through the draft this year so saying that we needed to take a cb in round 1 over a DE due to need is just not right.

I like that he has the quickest 10-yard dash on that list. Arguably the most important stat for a LB. As I said before, this guy his VERY hard.

I am excited to see what Sinorice Moss can do...I'm hoping he can indeed beat out Tim Carter...I don't know if he'll take Toomer's job.

 

I haven't heard much about Moss' hands...

He supposedly catches everything he gets his hands on and is a terrific leaper. And he runs a 4.38.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Emmons let go, but if he somehow got back to pre 2004 form, we'd have a hell of a LB corps....

I would be VERY suprised to see him leave. I think given our situation last year, the Giants would be weary of cutting talented backups without them thinking that they were upgrading the team this year. Cutting emmons in no way makes us better this year.

The plot thickens:

 

1) When last we heard of Eric Moore, he was learning to be an OLB. Has that now been deemed successful and that is why we need Mathias? Or is this simply a matter of replacing a 6th-rounder with a first rounder?

 

2) What is the fate of Willie Ponder? Or more importantly, what is the fate of that WR spot? Ponder has made the team strictly for his kick return skills, which no one else seemed to have at the time. Well, now every third player we've picked up has some degree of return skills, and Morton has been able to handle both duties. Ponder hasn't been on the field as a WR in how many years, and although he made the ProBowl as a returner, he didn't dress for half the games. Do we go with 6 or 5 WRs this year? If it's 5, does Moore stick; and does the WR corp look like Plax, Toomer, Moss, Tyree, and choice of Carter/Taylor?

 

3) Our linebackers. Who is going where? We seem to have Wilkerson and Short who can back up middle and outside positions and Emmons, Torbor, Arrington, and Blackburn. Is Blackburn out due to his neck, or is Emmons out because of his cap hit?

 

These and other questions to be answered by the end of August.

1) Moore is moving back to DE. He has not played a single meaningful down in his career and he was a sixthrounder so I dont think we can expect anything from him.

2) Ponder will be gone. Moss/Morton should handle everything. Taylor, Moss and Carter should compete for the slot. We should at least be able to put a very fast player on the field. Ideally they are also good at catching the deep ball.

3) Pierce and Lavar are obvious starters. Torbor and Emmons are playing for last spot. I think Torbor wins. Wilkerson and Blackburn backup the middle. Short and Emmons back up the other spots. We probably get 1 more LB either in the draft of FA.

]

 

but i mean, what's the difference between taking a risk on a player that has been injured(Webster), and taking a player that's been in trouble or a Lendale White type player who has also been injured(because if we were drafting for the future, Lendale is my pick)...that's what I dont get about this draft for the Giants...instead, they take a risk on a player in a position we didnt need all that bad on a player that was a projected second round pick...

 

I'm happy with Webster and all but our CB situation for the future is a lot more hazy than the DE situation

Sometimes you know if a player will make a full recovery from injury, players don't recover from character issues. In the case of Webster, he made a full recover. I dont think anyone would blame his struggles last year on his foot. I think they had more to do with the speed and difficulty of transitoning to the pro game.

As for Lendale, I truly think he will be an awful pro. I think that linebackers in this league are going to eat him apart and if he has any worth ethic issues whatsover, you can say goodbye to Lendale. All it takes is for Tom Coughlin or EA to share that opinion and that is why we don't take him. I think the only possible BPA's are: Holmes, Jackson, Justice and Williams (both actually). Since they made it clear that Moss was higher rated than either of the other 2 receivers, passing on those two makes sense. Justice and Jimmy also are understandable given their off-field issues. That leaves Deangelo who would have to kick derrick ward off the team, not necessarily a huge upgrade this year. Meanwhile we got a guy that we can put into the rotation immediately. He should also be a standout on special teams.

would you guys be so inclined to explain exactly why speed rushers(who i guess are 'undersized' in a 3-4) dont fit into 3-4s? I mean, I understand the fact it frees up an extra offensive lineman for the opposing team, but both osi and mike are rush from the outside most of the time...i guess their occasional inside rush would be negated but they can still bull rush...and if they do get doubled teamed, that's exactly what we need to free up a linebacker to make a play. I know the fact that both would have reduced production but I dont think it's all that of a stretch, unless you guys can explain something I am missing.

In the 3-4 the job of the DT's is to rush INSIDE the OT's. They bull rush the quarterback trying to occupy TWO blockers on every play. This should allow the outside LB, who is actually more like a DE with a running start get a good line on the quarterback. It's all about the LB's on the team making the plays on the quarterback and runningback.

Our DE's excel at getting to the QB. This is because they are quick and can put the outside move on the tackles, but they also have the capability to go outside but cutback in. In a 3-4, the DT's can't rush outside of the OT's becuase that would put them out of position. This takes away the strength of Strahan and Osi and mitigates them to the position of undresized defensive tackle who can't use their speed to get to the QB.

webster doesnt have half the talent that cromartie has. the only similarity they share is that they were both injured.

cromartie wasnt even available when we picked so this isnt even worth debating.

the 02 draft was a total failure outside of shockey. tim carter blows, i think Gorilla put it best when he said that he couldnt catch aids in a sudanese whore house.

that was pretty funny, but really how different is chad jackson than tim carter pre draft?

for the people who can express themselves without using the word 'dude'...how was Corey Webster 'the shit' when we drafted him? I remember him being a 2nd round pick with just as much of a question mark on him as any other CB we could have picked THIS year. I also remember him playing sparingly and mediocre to good at best this past season. I also remember Steve Smith completely destroying him.

that's the point. no rookie is going to come in here and start. its just not happening. he was a very talented CB, similar to Cromartie in draft situation. a talented player who just needed some experience. he clearly struggled at times, but also showed his talent. i just dont think that there was a rookie that we could have drafted that would have come in and been a better pro player this year than corey webster. covering profession wide receivers is difficult. ashton youboty couldnt cover steve smith, guaranteed.

I've seen Kiwi in a few games, and tracked him through the week of the Senior Bowl, and I never came away impressed. He would always get the accolades, but from what I saw, he just gets stopped in his tracks and pushed around way too often.

 

He's a physical specimen, and he could bulk up, I just hope he's able to develop some consistency, and become more of a physical player altogether.

 

What's worrisome to me is that it's very tough finding a DT on the 2nd day. Always productive looking back in hindsight, but I would have been much happier selecting Moss with our first pick, and using the #2 on either Wroten or Dvoracek.

I probably would have been too, but I think we'll come into training camp with at least one more quality DT. Whether it's via FA or the draft, I do not know.

Senior Bowl he went against DBrick who might end up being the best LT this decade so I'm not going to let too much ride on that. But the games that I saw, he was very disruptive. I think he's got a chance to be phenomenal pro. If I had to put money down on who would finish with a better career right now: Tuck or Kiwi.... Id say Kiwi.

...So how was the 2002 draft?

i actually think it was pretty good. shockey is a probowler every year. tim carter should be good but he just cant stay healthy (unlucky). no 3rd rounder. nick greisen in the fourth was a pretty good pickup.

actually the fab 4 have been hating him all along. enough with the holier than thou bullshit gateb. it's not that we don't like the players, most of us wanted other players and we do not understand this strategy.

im taking the strategy as such:

1. they didnt like chad jackson or holmes (i know you did). but they said they had moss ranked higher than eithr of them.

2. they have some plan to fill DT spot. im thinking through fa. i dont know who though.

3. they felt kiwi was bpa. i think he might have been too, at least the bpa w/o character issues. only time will tell.

who gives a fuck about a quote in their sig? You know i'm not talkin IMMEDIATE transformation don't you. toy with it in re-season and incorporate it during the season so the defense can't get good reads and it causes confusion

im gonna have to agree with money on this one. os is a SPEED guy. we just signed him to a long term contract and he's going to be a keystone of this defense for a long time. he's not a 3-4 guy. neither is lavar. neither is kiwi. it's just not happening.

moss was our top rated receiver? that explains a lot.

i think it says more about the negative opinion the team had on jackson and holmes than the positive one of moss. i wonder if they know something we dont.