GiantsRevival

I like Ryans a lot as well. But I'm leaning towards Greenway. I think both will be successful in the NFL. It was a tough choice though. Either player will start immediately and will make an impact.

Went with Williams because he fills a need and was the best player available. I was thinking Greenway and Sims. But Dolphins signed Allen for the speed WR's and with the addition of Williams they can cover the taller WR's as well. Not sure if I would put Williams at CB or safety. But he was the best talent left on the board. It would have helped a little to know if the Dolphins were going to sign Arrington.

Hey, we beat PSU. In the words of the Swam, I know cuz I was there. But Robinson, like any QB with operational legs, gave us problems.

 

He has great AA for a QB, but his AA is average at best at any other position. Plus, he's insisting on playing QB in the NFL.

He won't be a QB in the NFL. Its that simple. If he wants to make an NFL team he will have to convert to Rb or Wr. His arm leaves much to be desired. But his legs are an asset. If you watched him at all the year before he was a good WR as well. He ran for over 800 yards last year as a QB. You have to have athletic ability to do that.

If we sign Arrington I would love to draft a RB in the 1st. We need an eventual everydown replacement for Tiki and I don't think Jacobs is that guy. I could be wrong but if Tiki were to go down how many of us would feel comfortable with Ward or Jacobs carrying the load? I wouldn't be. But if we picked up a White or another capable RB as long as we are not reaching.

I like the Idea of trading with Indy so they can get their RB. Wonder if we could get and extra 2nd or 3rd rounder. Moving up 5 spots. Does anyone know what that would cost?

The Giants recently added Josh Harris, who has a pretty decent QB prospect from a couple years ago. Although, I still think they may sign a back-up QB (Fiedler?) and make Hasselbeck the 3rd guy.

If that happens then there would be no need for a QB. But I watched a lot of Robinson and you greatly underestimate his athletic ability. I know your a Michigan fan but try to be a little less objective. Just kidding.

No to he 5th, 6th and 7th rounds beating out Taylor and Carter, unless of course they get injured like every other year. But I think a 3rd or 4th will be used on a WR.

 

And I think it still applies. Signing a guy who, in 4 seasons, has 1 TD doesnt really address the hole. I think it was more of an insurance signing but I doubt EA's done w/ the WR position.

I really don't think a 3rd or 4th rounder would beat him out either. He has ability. You can't go into the draft and make selections based on what would happen if our 5th option on offense gets hurt. There will be a bunch of defensive players that were rated as 2nd rounders left at our pick in the 3rd round that could give us depth where we have none. We have good depth at WR. Burress,Toomer,Carter,Taylor,Tyree, and Ponder is not bad depth at all. Before we got Burress Carter was moving in on the 2nd WR slot. The year Warner was here Carter was showing big play ability up until the injury. That year in 5 games he had 12 catches for 182 yards 15.2 yard avg 1td. And last year he played in 15 games, he was just seldom used. Why? We've been over this. He is the 5th option in the offense. Its hard to put up huge stats in an offense when your number is rarley called and you are rarely on the field. We rarely use the 3wr set. If given the chance Carter could be a very good WR. Until some one gets hurt he will not get that shot. Lets hope he doesn't get that shot this year. Hopefully Burress and Toomer can stay healthy. But to draft a WR in the 3rd round when he will never see the field makes no sense to me. Like Money has said we have no WLB at this point. So before I would draft a WR I would draft 2 WLBers and a DT. Maybe a WR on the second day is a possibility. On the 1st day I just don't see it unless some guy falls way down the draft boards. And if that happens then fine so be it. I highly doubt that happens being that this is not a very deep draft at the WR department.

I actually like Robinson in the 7th. I live in PA and watch every Penn State game. I don't like him as a QB but he could come in handy come practice time to prepare us for a scrambler. I think his place would be at WR. Is he a project? Sure. But with his athletic ability its one that could pay off. The 7th round is the place to gamble for big dividends. He could be that guy. There are no sure things this late in the draft. So why not Robinson. I think we should pickup a QB somewhere in the draft to compete with Lorenzen anyway.

Q: It is safe to say that, in general, you took care of the offensive side of the ball last year and will focus more on defense this offseason? Do you feel pretty good about the offense?

 

Accorsi: “Yes. I think we need another receiver. But other than that, I think we have a young back (Brandon Jacobs) that can work and stay healthy, too, behind Tiki for the depth. Our offensive line is all signed. We are in pretty good shape. We have to concentrate on defense, there is no question about that.”

---------------

This is what I'm basing my thoughts on. Obviously defense is the priority but he clearly states that he wants to get another receiver. He tried to get Keyshawn and failed so that leads me to believe that hes going to draft a WR. I dont understand why everyone wont even accept it as a possibility. OUR GM SAID IT HIMSELF!!!

This was a quote before we resigned Carter. Not so sure this still applies.

absolutely !! 100% agreed !

 

The other issue is with a great D you dont have to score tons of points !!!

 

We have and offensive line up already that scores the necessary amount of points.

The focus must be on Defense. a DT, 2 LB's and another safety or CB.

 

Yes! if a great talent at LT or WR is starring at us in the face fine but not at round

1 or 2 !! Put together a D that can keep people out of the endzone most to of the times

and we'll have a winning team provided that Eli continues to improve which there is no reason

to think that he wont !

 

martin

I agree as well. Defense has to be a priority in rounds 1-4. Defense wins championships. And until our defense is top 10 we will not sniff playoff success. A 3rd WR won't put us over the top thats for sure.

Martin, do you actually read these posts? I have ALWAYS said that I dont want a WR in either the 1st or 2nd round, Im talking 3rd or 4th.

 

DT + 2LB + CB OR S = 4 picks

If you want both a S AND CB that will be 5 picks.

 

In the NFL you get 7 picks.

 

7-5 = 2 other picks. I just want to use 1 of those picks on a WR. You can even use that last one on defense if you want.

Do you really think a 4th,5th,6th,7th round picks will win the 3rd WR spot over Carter or even Taylor for that matter? I sure don't think so. Our best hope is to have Carter stay healthy and reach his potential. He has displayed potential its all about staying healthy. I truely think we will need to draft a WR but not until next year. We will need to replace Toomer in the next few years.

Seubert can play center. If Wilson get hurt, Demps can play SS and Butler will step in at FS but Harris is a SS. If Peterson doesnt come back we'll be fine. We've got McQuarters, Deloack and Walker right now as backups to Madison and Webster.

 

I think people are misunderstaning this. I want to/insist on using our first two picks on a LB and DT. Im talking about getting a WR in the 3rd or 4th.

 

I know its a low impact position but its still a position and it will give us greater flexibility on third down. Getting that third WR (after first getting a LB and DT) will help more IMO than a 5th safety, 6th corner and 4th OT.

Well if Seubert is backup C then we are thin at G. Either way we probably need 1 OL. If it were a perfect draft this is how mine would look. Counting on us signing a DT in free agency

1st OLB 2nd RB 3rd LT 4th OLB 5th G/C 6th WR 7th CB

Honestly I wouldn't be upset if we went in a different direction. I've been thinking about it. If we were to sign Arrington and draft a DT in the second. I would absolutely love to get RB White in the 1st. You wanna talk about depth. If Tiki goes down we are done. At least with White we have an eventual replacement and possible immediate star if Tiki were to go down. This is scary to think about. But imagine Ward or Jacobs as the every down back. Ouch I'm not so sure I'm comfortable with that. So actually RB is probably higher on my list than WR

But you have to look at his point. With a QB playing as mediocre than any other QB in the league, we still produced a lot of points. Now, if we get the production that is expected out of Eli in his third season, with special teams helping us get into good field position and our defense supposedly healthier and more improved, I expect us to be in the top 5 in multiple offensive categories.

We were top 5 last year some of his stats are wrong.

I do understand his point but just because we're near the tops in the league in a given category doesnt mean we can stop trying to improve. The third WR is a very obvious position that can use some improvement, that point is undeniable. You can argue that we have more pressing needs but I'm arguing that after we address LB and DT there isnt anything more pressing.

 

Some team has to have the best offense in the league, why not us? Why should we be content with 3rd or 4th. I really think adding a threat at #3 WR will propel us to the top and have a better effect on this team than adding depth on defense.

We don't need a #1 offense. We need a top ten defense to go along with that top 5 offense.

Are you saying Clancy was overpaid by the Giants last year or the Cardinals paid too much to get him? Either way I couldn't disagree more. Clancy was making a whopping $721 K last season for NY. The Cardinals signed him to a 4 year 8.1 million dollar deal (which includes his signing bonus). That's relative chump change for a starting grade DT. Besides, if playing next to good defensive ends made him productive, what's the harm in that? I wholeheartedly agree we shouldn't have given the guy a 20 million dollar deal but I also think we let him walk for pretty cheap.

I was talking about what Arizona paid him. Watch how his play goes down now that he can't hide behind Strahan and Osi. They made him look real good. Obviously the Giants thought he got to much or they would have resigned him. I believe we can plug in Robbins and he can have the same success. Plus getting into a bidding battle with the Cardinals was a losing battle. They have ridiculous cap room.

I agree wholehartedly that LB and DT are much bigger needs this offseason. I even think we could go for drafting 2 at each position. Im just looking past those two and the only other true need I see left is the third WR.

Here's another way to look at it. Lets say we go w/ Lb/dt in first two rounds. I think adding a third WR in round 3 could help us go from 3rd to 1st in offense wheras adding a player at ANY position wouldnt effect our defensive ranking because they would never get onto the field this year. If you can think of a spot, please let me know.

We only have one C on our roster, we could use another G because Whittle is gone, We need a SS to backup Wilson(I'm not even sure Harris is a SS), OT needs to be adressed we only have 3, 2 OLBers, DT, and I wouldn't mind a solid corner in the 1st 2 ropunds in case Peterson can't come back. WR is way down the list. Going from 3rd to 1st in offense is barely noticable. And there are a lot of defensive players in this draft that can start immediately. There are a number of OLBer that are starting material that should be available for us in the 1st round. Remember the 3rd WR is rarely on the field in our offense. How much of an impact do you really think a 3rd WR would be in our offense. We are mostly and I-formation offense.

I believe we were 4th in total yards per game.

We were 11th in passing yards per game.

You got rushing right though.

Yes you are correct sir he also left out a few key stats as well. Its easy to argue a point when you misquote stats.

Nice research there.

Pts scored - 6th

YPG - 8th

Rushing YPG - 6th

Passing YPG - 13th

So what categories were you thinking of for the top 5 offenses?

 

Thats good but definitely not elite. What positions do we need to draft other than DT and LB to improve our defense? Do a litte reading before you get back to me because you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

OK Nice research but what you seem to have left out were key stats that a offense is judged by.

Total ofense 4th

Scoring offense 3rd (which obvoiusly you should recheck since you misquoted it)

Rushing 6th

passing 11th

With key players like Eli 5th in yardage,Tiki 2nd in yardage, Shockey 3rd in yardage, and Plax 9th in yardage. We have plenty of weapons on offense. Before we draft a WR I'd rather see a OLB, DT, LT, C, S, CB. Thats how far down my list a WR is at this point. Second day in the draft. Check the real stats of our offense then check the stats of our defense and see were the true needs are on this team. Very few people will side with you that WR is high on our list of needs. Why? Because football common sense tells them that.

Learn football before you attack someone that knows far more about football than you.

Just to prove my point here are the defensive stats:

Total defense 24th

Scoring 14th

rushing 12th

passing 27th

So you tell me what is a greater need on this team a 3rd WR or rebuilding the defense? Anyone with a football IQ could answer this one correctly.

I completely agree that #3 wideout has me about as concerned as what I had for dinner 3 days ago.

 

That said, we didn't have the #1 scoring O, we had the #4 scoring offense.

Yeah sorry towards the end of the year the Seahawks,Colts,and Bengals creaped in front of us. Still top 5 though and top 5 is elite. I could care less about the 3rd WR that is until an injury occurs. But if healthy Carter can fill in or Taylor could step up. Wr is the least of our worries.

Im not saying that we need to have a great third receiver. I just think that our offense would reach an entirely new level if we had a consistent third wide receiver. It would be comparable to the nickel back, a third down passing play specialist. It's been a non-existent position for us recently. The are teams out there with great offenses who have 3 solid WR's and a good TE. I just think that the third WR is the only spot on our offense that could use a bit of help. I just want a guy who will make 3-5 catches a game to help keep the drives going and to stretch the field a bit. Just because our offense is good, doesnt mean it cant get better. If we get a consistent #3 WR our offense would be unstoppable. I dont mean that we call plays for this guy instead of Shockey but with a third WR we can actually go w/ a spread formation and if he Eli sees that hes open he gets the pass. Most of the time though, we go to the other guys.

 

Its a minor position, but I think an upgrade at it would really put our offense into the category of elite of the elite. It would at least help us more than adding say, a 6th CB or 5th safety, IMO.

We already are an Elite offense. We were #1 in points scored and a top 5 offense in almost every category. Our defense was average at best. Defense wins championships and for us to get one we need to solidify that side of the ball. If we do so, the 3rd WR won't be needed or missed. Having a 3rd wr is a luxury improving the defense is a necessity.

You didn't include any of the undrafted free agents the Giants signed in the offseason in your roster review. The Giants have additional safeties in Jamaal Brimmer and Jason Shivers. They also just picked up a WR from Green Bay off of waivers. Before anybody says, "well those guys won't make the team anyway" realize that guys like Chase Blackburn, Rich Seubert and Butler were acquired the same way.

 

I wouldn't have called Clancy overpaid. We got him relatively cheap and the deal he signed with Arizona wasn't expensive. I tend to think we could get his equal for similar money but no way was Kenderick pricey. As for the money we have spent, I would've loved to have seen us go after a LB like David Thornton instead of spending money on McQuarters.

Some of them will make the team but I didn't want to speculate which ones so I went with the best bet players to make the team. Clancey was extremely over paid. As I mentioned earlier he benefitted by playing next to the best DE combo in the NFL and he took the pay day. The Giants know better than to give him that kind of money knowing we can plug another guy in there and have them be just as effective. Robbins is a solid player as is Joseph, Duckett, and Allen. Remember people thought DT was a weakness going into last year as well and it turned out to be just fine. Our DT's will be just fine as they are. We will add a free agent or draft one. I am not all that concerned about the DT position. OLB is our weakest link. If we get a playmaker at this position we will have a dominant defense.

That stat doesn't mean anything. When you have a Shockey and Tiki, those two are better than any #3 WR;therefore, a listed #3's numbers will not be that great. There's only so many balls to throw.

 

Not all teams have the luxury of 4 great targets to throw at.

Very true being that our #3 WR is the 5th option. How often do you think Eli gets to his 5th read in a play. Very seldom. I'd rather throw the ball to Shockey more than throw to the 3rd WR.

I've been all for Arrington over Buckner for a while now. I'm having dreams of signing both of them though. Any remote chance that happens?

Only if there are players willing to restructure. Which I think there are. Its amazing what a winning season and a division title can do to motivate the team spirit. Last year there were players willing to but the Giants chose not to activate all of them. Time will tell. If we sign Arrington and draft a DT in the 1st 3 rounds I would be happy.

Four actually. I like Duckett. But a guy like Buckner would help stop potentially some of the most potent offenses in the game right here in the NFC EAst.

If we lose Arrington I'm all for Buckner. But if given the choice between Buckner or Arrington I'd rather have Arrington. With Osi and Strahan commanding double teams and the remaining 2 O-linemen on the DT's that would leave Arrington freed up to attack the ball carrier or blitz the QB. Arrington would help more against the passing game and in our division we have 2 of the best WR's in Moss and TO. The passing game in the NFC East will be much different this year. With 3 pass rushers attacking the QB, turnovers should be a common occurance. Honestly as long as we fill one of the needs before the draft I will be happy.

The thing is, there aren't many options left at DT through FA, and after spending a fair amount of money on FA linebackers the past 2 years, I was hoping they would take their chances in the draft, where it happens to be very deep linebacking class.

 

Now, instead of going into the draft with pretty good depth at most positions besides LB, we're going in with a lack of quality depth at both LB and DT.

Thing is we don't need a superstar at DT. We have 3 capable Dt's in Joseph,Robbins, and Allen. We just need some depth. A middle rounder would suffice. With the 1st 2 rounds available for OLBers. Going into a draft with 2 weakness in depth is not a bad scenerio.

Thats a huge if considering hes played 4 seasons and never been healthy. Also Tyree is not a legit receiver... hes too and doesnt get any seperation.

 

IMO Taylor is the best chance we have at a consistent, legit, third WR.

I agree with you to a degree. Shockey was getting the injury prone label up until this year. And Shockey played 15 games this year. So could Carter turn it around? Yes, and obviously the Giants think so too. I wouldn't count him out just yet. Tyree hasn't been given enough playing time to determine his ability yet. If he works hard this offseason who knows what he could become. But I agree with u about Taylor. I think he may be the best of the 3. Hopefully with a year off he can come back fully healthy and display his playmaking ability that he showed flashes of early on in his career. But when you compare weaknesses WR is a distant 3rd to OLB and DT. I'm not worried about WR's at this point. I do think we will draft one though.

I just did one of these in my WR thread. Anyway, I disagree with your opinion about no need at WR. I think after DT and LB, WR is the thinnest position. It's the only one other than those two that doesnt have a legitimate backup if a starter goes down. Our two reserves Carter and Taylor have the following career stats:

Carter (4 seasons): 50 receptions for 714 yards and 1 TD

Taylor (2 seasons): 6 receptions for 146 yards and 0 TD

 

The Giants had the second worst production out of their #3 WR last year. I think its clearly our #3 priority in the draft after DT and LB.

I really think Carter,Tyree, or Taylor could step up and be the #2 if needed. Plus we could go to Shockey more if one of our starters got hurt. I would have no problem drafting a WR if one slips to us, if, the OLB and DT positions can still be filled. Carter has shown flashes of play making ability. One concern is health. If he can stay healthy I like his chances of having a break out year.

I'm a little up in the air with how we did this off-season. I do like that we were able to retain many of our own role players. I like Madison, though I don't think he'll be here for 4 years.

 

I can understand why we're not being overly aggressive in the FA market with LB's for a variety of reasons, but what I can't understand is why we couldn't spend a little money on either bringing Clancey back, or finding another DT. I would have been more comfortable spending money on another DT rather than on McQuarters and Bell.

I like Madison too. I think he will sure up our secondary for the next few years. Clancey was severly overpaid. Last year he benefitted from circumstances. He played next to Osi and Strahan. He will not produce nearly as well in Arizona. I think we will still sign a DT. I think we are waiting to see what happens with Arrington before we spend money locking up a DT. The signings of McQuarters and Bell will have no effect on us signing a DT or Arrington. The McQuarters signing gave us excellent depth. Having him as a nickel/dime cb is a good luxury to have. Plus if Morton were to get hurt we would still have a weapon at punt returner. A lot of these signings were depth but the allow us to draft best player available in the draft. We have not had that luxury in a long time. I'm really looking forward to this years draft.

We could resign Griesen,draft a OLB to compete with the starters, and sign a DT. I don't think we need a starting DT. I like Robbins and Joseph as the starters. We just need solid depth. DT's will see single blockers all day with Osi and Strahan drawing constant double teams.

I still have this feeling Arrington will wear blue next year. I had the same feeling last year with Burress. I really would hate to be an opposing QB with Arrington, Osi, and Strahan gunning for me. Could be a deadly force that could make our secondary look really good(Bledsoe would have no time to get the ball to TO). No way to double team all three. If this happens we could draft best player available in 1st round at any position and draft a DT in the second round. This team is 2 solid players from being a dominant, balanced team.

Depth Charts:

OFFENSE

QB- Manning, Hasselback, Lorenzen/Could use a late round pick to compete with Lorenzen.

RB- Tiki,Jacobs,Ward,Morton /No need this year to address this position,possibly next year though

WR- Burress,Toomer,Carter,Tyree,Taylor,Ponder /No need at this point unless a someone in the draft falls

TE- Shockey,Shiancoe /No needs here

LT- Petitgout,Whitfield /Could see us drafting one at some point in the draft

LG- Diehl, Seubert

C- O'Hara,Seubert /Possible draft pick needed

RG- Snee,Kelly

RT- Mckenzie, Whitfield

FB- Finn

DEFENSE

CB- Madison,Webster, McQuarters,Deloatch,Walker, Peterson?, Bell No needs here although on could be drafted if we sign a OLB in free agency

FS- Demps,Butler

SS- Wilson,Harris

LE- Strahan, Moore

RE- Osi,Tuck

DT- Joseph,Robbins,Allen,Duckett,Seawright We will either sign one or draft one

MLB- Pierce,Lewis?

OLB- Emmons,Torbor,Blackburn We will need 2 of these yet hopefully one in draft one in free agency

K- Feely

P- Feagles

PR- Morton,McQuarters

KR- Morton,Ponder

I like what we have done with our offseason signings. By signing Mcquarters,Carter, and Demps these positions are no longer needs. Which leaves us only two glaring need positions at DT and OLB. We will fill at least one of these yet in free agency, if not both. This is the 1st time in years we can actually draft best player available at least in rounds 2-7. If we lose out on Arrington we will most likely draft a OLB in the first and sign a DT in free agency. Leaving best player available in rounds 2-7.

This is where I'm unclear...I always thought that signing bonuses represented a certain amount of money garanteed within the entire contract. For example, if he signed a 5 year, $15 million dollar contract with a $5 million dollar signing bonus, then $5 million of the $15 million is garanteed. I didn't think the signing bonus represented an additional amount of money, just garanteed.

 

Can anyone confirm?

That I'm not sure about. I thought the bonus money was garunteed but it wasn't included in the Base Salary thats why I added it. Can anyone confirm or deny this.