mstrahan22_1/2

i'll second that, bye will pete. that 5 year extension sure does look silly now.

eli manning

here's a good article on it

i think my opinion on this subject has already been established several times so i don't see the need for saying it again.

what a player

i think he'll definately get his shot at regular situations next year. we need to evaluate his talent before we go into the 2007 draft.

i actually think the workout stats supported my arguement, the players are equally athletically gifted. they (moss, jackson, and holmes) all seem to have good heads on their shoulders, with (in the case of jackson and moss) identical wonderlic scores. even if moss is quicker in the short field, it's not by a lot, atleast not enough to take him over a player that is 5 inches taller, and had a college career that was twice as productive. not in my book anyway.

I got flagged for 24 hours for the following comment:

 

"New Orleans had better flood control than the Giants message board. Someone bring in Ray Nagin...I think we need a chocolate message board."

 

For anyone on the Giants boards lately, the flood control has totally sucked. And anyone following the news would know that Ray Nagin made those chocolate comments. I thought was decent use of satire, but apparently I struck a nerve.

 

I'm interested to know if people think what I said rose to a remark that merited suspension.

i can appreciate satire, i like it. :worshippy:

Top five? Not a chance. He was an underachiever his entire career with the Giants. He was average, at best.

i agree not top five, but how can you say underachieving? he was a 3rd rounder and was a solid starter for several years. if we could get the same production out of jeff hatch or vishante shiancoe i'd be thrilled. oh wait, hatch is gone.

There's no way of telling who the better prospect is going to be, but like I said, I think Moss is a better fit for our offense. And Moss is supposed to have one of the best vertical leaps for WR's in this draft. And like I mentioned, there's a pretty big difference between having Kyle Wright and Chris Leak as your starting QB's. And one other major point as to why the Giants may have supposedly ranked Moss ahead of Jackson, Jackson's yards per catch last year was 10.2, while Moss' was an amazing 16.6. Jackson's 40 time might be better than Moss', but IMO, Moss' football speed is much more evident on the field.

 

The list of average to smallish WR's in the league

 

Steve Smith

Lee Evans

Roscoe Parrish

Santana Moss

Dieon Branch

Troy Brown

Tim Dwight

Laveranues Coles

Ike Hilliard

Terry Glenn

David Patten

Antwaan Randle El

Hines Ward

Mark Clayton

Derrick Mason

Az-Zahir Hakim

Marvin Harrison

Reggie Wayne

Brandon Stokley

Torry Holt

Kevin Curtis

Bobby Engram

Darell Jackson

 

Not a bad list.

well most teams and every draft site i've seen has moss ranked 3rd behind jackson and holmes. it is a matter of opinion, and i'm not going to change my mind now just because we drafted him. a lot of the players on the list have had injury plagued seasons, not to mention they are all also bigger than sinorice moss. obviously harrison and ward (6' 215lbs) are exceptions, but they are a far cry from 5'8'' 184. a lot of those players havent even contributed yet, or never really panned out.

Moss also didn't have Chris Leak throwing him the ball. Either way, I don't expect Moss to live up to the expectations of WR's like Steve Smith or Santana Moss, but, I think he can play a much more key role in our offense than Jackson could have. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking forward to a nice rotation between Burress, Toomer, Carter and Moss. And as much as people like to bitch about Carter, having him and Moss on the field at the same time is going to give defenses major headaches. And how is it that historically, bigger receivers have been better?

even so, i'd like to hear your arguement on why moss was a better prospect. i think they are equally athletically gifted, but jackson is taller, and his college stats show that he has the skills to play at a high level, consistantly. being shorter doesnt make receivers better, it has only been a coincidence that 2 of the best receivers from last year were undersized. that's 2, but all the rest were atleast 6'. you all seem to forget how big of a deal it was when we got plaxico burress and he was 6'4'' 220.

I won't beat you up. We're all entitled to our opinion on these guys. I will say though that my view on Kiwi was high before the Giants picked him (I picked him in our MB mock) and it hasn't changed since the draft. I noticed him his Junior season and at the time was hoping he'd come out then.

 

The one observation you made that I wholeheartedtly disagree with is his jump off the ball. Kiwi is FAST. He's got an explosive first step, although he did play with some leg injuries his senior season so maybe you caught him at less than 100%.

i was high on him pre-draft, i really do feel he's a great prospect. what i was upset about was how we did it though. i loved the trade to pittsburgh, but hated the fact that sinorce moss was our number one receiver. throughout history, big receivers have been better, and now we follow the trend of getting the small slot receiver. that's not to say i don't like moss either, i also think he's a great prospect, i just thought with jackson in particular had a far more productive college career, equal ability, and like moss, wasnt a badass with off-field problems. 3rd round and on was a-ok in my book, they passed on watson, but i'm sure they had their reasons, and i'm happy with coefield.

Maybe if THIS didn't happen to Kiwanuka, he plays a full season his senior year.

ugh, that just pisses me off, i don't care what player it is.

Next year's first round pick will be used on drafting a running back.

i think it will have more to do with who is available when we are picking. just taking the best runningback would be dumb, unless the real strategy was to bomb the season and get a better one next year.

i'll give it a solid B, i see most people with a bit of sense said the same thing. though we did not seem to fill any gaping holes, i think we gathered a lot of talent, and many players we can use in the future. i was upset with the kiwanuka pick, i felt there were more talented players at more needed positions. i guess we'll see in a few years.

i'm so glad marcus vick didnt get drafted, this dumbass cowboys fan i had a conversation with suggested the cowboys take him in the second round.

oh, for the record my top 3 were bush, ferguson, and williams. i drafted sinorce moss 4 picks before the giants actually did, and i thought Hound's pick of kiwanuka in the early second round was a very good pick at the time.

that was like 2 of the worst picks in the draft too.

he single handedly kicked LSU's ass

i like this pick, he fits the description for what we were looking for at DT. all we really needed was someone to occupy linemen and let our playmakers make the plays.

what happened to gerald riggs anyway?

Not disputing Cromartie's skills, but there is a massive learning curve for CBs making the transition to the NFL. Performance at CB is every bit as predicated on savvy/experience as it as on pure athleticism.

 

Webster is very athletic, by any standard. I thought you were a LSU fan. Holla at your boy!!

<--- still pissed about the massively underachieving team of 2004.

i dont think it's a longterm solution because we dont have a guy to play opposite webster. but the point is we are not improving this position through the draft this year so saying that we needed to take a cb in round 1 over a DE due to need is just not right.

i didnt even say that. i thought i made it pretty clear i wanted us to take chad jackson. an yes, obviously we are not improving the cornerback situation through the draft this year.

No way would Cromartie beat out Webster this year. Cromartie hasn't played since 2004 and started 1 game in college. The only CB on our roster that he'd beat out as a rookie is maybe Frank Walker.

he's a beast! webster is unathletic (by a cornerback's standards) when he's healthy. i'm not saying he'd be great his first year, i'm just not too high on webster. i've never thought he was really talented. in college he was a 'right place, right time' kind of guy. we can still really use some help at cornerback, i still don't see our situation as a long term solution.

ponder is gone, no doubt.

cromartie wasnt even available when we picked so this isnt even worth debating.

the point is, webster isnt as talented as you seem to think. cromartie could probably beat him out his first year, not that that would be some kind of accomplishment. if you think we're solid at CB you're in for a surprise.