jerseyguy

Honestly I didn't meant to come off as jumping down your throat guy. Lotsa people know that I dislike that. Sorry for any confusion.

we're good.....

Um, I was just simply asking that you do not quote an essay when you are the first responder, that is all. I was not trying to be obnoxious, just trying to make life easier on everyone.

Um, OK, but it didn't sound like asking to me....

It is just extremely obnoxious and my #1 pet peeve on forums when someone does that. Especially when I am in the middle of some boring meeting and I'm "reading an e-mail" on my Blackberry and have to scroll forever.

I came over from the NY Giants boards to get away from those kinds of sarcastic responses and you come at me with that one, and you call mine obnoxious, better look up the meaning of the word my friend ....

For the love of god you are the first person replying to the topic who do we all think you are replying too? Don't quote essays!

didn't mean to offend you, do you forgive me, I thought this was a sports forum and not a classroom...sorry teacher...

Would anyone oppose an experiment of Shockey at WR?

no, I wouldn't want to see Shockey at WR because although a very talented player and an excellent blocker it has never been said that he has great hands and runs disciplined routes, isn't that what we want from a WR....

I know we've discussed this subject at length...and pretty much all agree with the following analysis. But it's getting harder and harder to find decent reading material on the Giants this past week, so I'm posting this article from BBI for those who need a fix. At least it's something to read. I'm getting very antsy in anticipation of the draft, which is only 16 days away.

2008 Giants Draft Needs

by Eric from BigBlueInteractive.com

April 7, 2008

 

The Giants approach the 2008 NFL Draft being in the fortunate position of having most of their starting roster for the upcoming season already set. In fact, the Giants will not be pressured to find an immediate starter from their 2008 draft class. This will enable the team to not force or reach for a player with lesser ability. The Giants have the luxury of being able to select the best player available.

 

That said, this does not mean the Giants can afford to have a bad draft. A bad draft or two can quickly turn a good team into a mediocre one. Moreover, with the Giants not being terribly active in free agency in 2007 and 2008, drafting well becomes even more important.

 

General Manager Jerry Reese and his scouting department hit a home run in 2007. Not only did all eight draft picks make the roster, but seven of them were significant contributors in the Super Bowl Championship run. But one year does not make a trend. Now is not the time to get cocky. The Giants will face a stern test from within their own division in 2008, let alone the rest of the NFC and NFL. The Giants are not guaranteed to make the playoffs. They need to continue to get better.

 

Let’s take a look at the roster and the positions where the Giants may or may not select players.

 

Quarterback: Eli Manning enters just his fifth NFL season with a Super Bowl ring and a Super Bowl MVP Trophy. With the weight of the world lifted from his shoulders, look for him to continue to mature into one of the better NFL signal callers by cutting down on his mistakes. But the Giants are not in great shape behind him if Eli gets hurt. The Giants tried to sign Todd Collins from the Redskins, expressed some interest in Cleo Lemons and Trent Green, but were forced to settle for David Carr. Carr only signed a 1-year deal and will likely depart in 2009. Personally, I don’t think he is a lock to make the roster unless he dramatically improves his decision-making and confidence level. Anthony Wright and Jared Lorenzen have the advantage of knowing the Giants’ system, which is not terribly quarterback friendly. None inspire. That said, I personally don’t see the Giants drafting a young quarterback. Manning isn’t going anywhere for at least the next 10 years. Any current or future reserves will most likely be veteran free agents.

 

Draft Priority: Low.

 

Running Backs: The Giants arguably have the deepest collection of running backs in the NFL. 25-year old Brandon Jacobs missed six games with injuries, but still rushed for over 1,000 yards and averaged 5.0 yards a carry. He has only scratched the surface of his potential. 22-year old Ahmad Bradshaw may even be better. He runs with power and elusiveness and can hit the home run. The Giants were very fortunate that an injury-plagued past scared teams away from 27-year old Derrick Ward, who has flashed legitimate NFL starting ability. All three of these backs could start for the Giants without the team missing a beat. The veteran Reuben Droughns will have to fight for his life to make the roster and could be seriously challenged by Practice Squad player Danny Ware or a low draft pick or undrafted rookie free agent.

 

The Giants are set at fullback with Madison Hedgecock. The 26-year old Hedgecock is signed through the 2012 season.

 

Draft Priority: Low.

 

Wide Receivers: The Giants will likely carry six wide receivers, with two of those players being primary special teams players. Plaxico Burress is one of the best wide receivers in the NFL and certainly the best the Giants have ever had in recent memory. He’s a difference maker who demands attention from opposing defenses. Amani Toomer will return for at least one more season. While Toomer no longer scares opposing defenses, he is still a major contributor who has become adept at the clutch catch in key situations. Steve Smith rarely played in 2007 due to injuries, but when he did, such as in the playoffs, he looked like something special. Not because he is a game-breaker who makes a lot of plays down the field, but because the 22-year plays with a veteran savvy well beyond his years and experience level. Smith runs good routes, gets open, and has a knack for making big catches in pressure-packed situations. He may push Toomer for playing time. The Giants have not yet given up on Sinorice Moss, the elusive speedster who has yet to make an impact. But time is running out on him. He will be challenged by Michael Jennings (a speedster who looked like a lock to make the roster last year before rupturing his Achilles in the preseason), Domenik Hixon (another speed receiver who Reese says will be a factor at the competition at wide receiver), and Brandon London (a Practice Squad player with a lot of ability). Super Bowl hero David Tyree is likely – but not 100 percent guaranteed – of securing a roster spot as a special teams player.

 

Draft Priority: Medium. The Giants do not “need” a wide receiver. If they did not add a single player, they should be much stronger at this position in 2008 with Burress, Smith, and Jennings being healthy. Plus, another camp for Smith and Moss will help tremendously. That said, if Burress were to be lost with a serious injury, this strong group would become very average. And another true difference maker could propel this offense into one of the best in the NFL. Don’t be shocked to see the Giants drafting a wide receiver on the first day, including possibly the first round if the Giants have a high grade on someone.

 

Tight Ends: Everything depends on Jeremy Shockey. If the Giants have no interest in trading Shockey, then the Giants are set at this position. If they do trade him, this position turns into one of need. There is no tight end in this draft with as much ability as Shockey. Shockey is not only a very good receiver, but he is now one of the better blocking tight ends in the NFL (in fact, he may offer the Giants more value in that area now than as a receiver). So why might the Giants consider trading him? He’s a very beat-up 27-year old who has never been able to finish a season healthy in his six NFL seasons. He is not the same player he was when he was first drafted. How many years does he have left as a top player? In addition, the Giants are not thrilled with his chronic absence during the offseason program. And he and Eli Manning don’t seem to be on the same page. He may not want to be with the Giants. If the Giants are offered a package that includes multiple picks, including a high second rounder, they may listen.

 

Behind Shockey, the Giants have an up-and-coming player in 24-year old Kevin Boss. Michael Matthews is more of a blocker and he will have to fight off challenges from Darcy Johnson (the front runner for the #2 tight end spot last year before he hurt his knee in camp) and Practice Squaders Jerome Collins and Marcus Freeman.

 

Draft Priority: Depends on Shockey. If Shockey returns, this is a low priority. If not, this is a high priority.

 

Offensive Line: The Giants field one of the better offensive lines in the NFL. And once Chris Snee has his contract extended, the starting group will be locked up through at least the 2011 season. David Diehl, a former guard and right tackle, played surprisingly well in his first season at left tackle. Snee and Seubert are two of the tougher guards in the NFL, with Snee being a Pro Bowl-caliber player. Kareem McKenzie is one of the better right tackles in the NFL. Shaun O’Hara, the leader of the offensive line, is very solid. Only O’Hara is over 30. In reserve, Grey Ruegamer has proven to be a valuable reserve, but he has his limitations. Tackles Guy Whimper, Adam Koets, and Na’Shan Goddard, and guard Kevin Boothe have ability.

 

Draft Priority: Low. The Giants are in good shape at this position. Diehl will be even better with another training camp under his belt. However, with the Giants not having a lot of pressing needs, this is one position where the team could afford to draft for quality if a player with special ability is available when the Giants pick.

 

Defensive Line: The Giants have one of the very best defensive lines in the NFL. Osi Umenyiora and Justin Tuck are both young and under contract through the 2012 season. Mathias Kiwanuka, who was moved to linebacker last year, is better suited to defensive end. Dave Tollefson flashed in limited chances. So even if Michael Strahan does not return in 2008, the Giants are in very good shape outside. If he does return, they are in outstanding shape.

 

Inside, the Giants normally only activate three defensive tackles on game day. Those three will be Fred Robbins, Barry Cofield, and Jay Alford. This is a solid, but unspectacular, group. Manny Wright will spend his first training camp with the Giants and offers greater size and stoutness, but he has had off-the-field issues before arriving in New York.

 

Draft Priority: Low to medium. The Giants don’t “need” a defensive lineman. But they can afford the luxury of getting even stronger at this position. If Strahan retires and Tuck starts at left end, the Giants will likely look to draft a Tuck-like player who can rush the passer from both end and tackle. They could even take such a player in the first round. Inside, if the Giants were able to obtain a truly special defensive tackle, then this defense would reach an even higher level. The problem is that defensive tackles with special ability are almost impossible to find – especially when picking last in each round.

 

Linebacker: The Giants are not in as bad a shape here as many would lead you to believe. Antonio Pierce is one of the leaders of the defense and will start in the middle for at least one or two more years, possibly a lot more. True strongside linebackers see the field less than nickel backs. If Strahan returns, Mathias Kiwanuka is sure to start on the strongside while shifting to the defensive line once again in many obvious pass rushing situations. Even if Kiwanuka does play end, Chase Blackburn has played on the strongside before and Zak DeOssie was not drafted to be merely a special teams player but a future starter. The loser of the competition at weakside linebacker battle also figures into the equation as both Gerris Wilkinson and Danny Clark have the ability to man that post as well. A wild card could be someone like Tank Daniels.

 

The Giants did not make a strong push to re-sign Kawika Mitchell and while the deal he signed with Buffalo was a rich one, it was not outrageous. It seems as if the Giants made a conscious decision – albeit right or wrong – that Mitchell was simply a replaceable cog. It will be interesting to watch as Mitchell did make quite a few plays for the Giants down the stretch. My guess is that the team wanted to get the more athletic and faster Wilkinson on the field and that Clark was signed to challenge him, to possibly be a factor on the strongside, and/or for depth. I could very easily see a scenario where Clark beats out Wilkinson, but I think the Giants are hoping that Wilkinson takes that next step.

 

Draft Priority: Medium. The Giants don’t “need” a linebacker. If Kiwanuka stays at linebacker, they return two-thirds of the starting corps. And Kiwanuka will be much better in 2008. Wilkinson, who missed most of camp and all of the preseason in 2007, will be better too. He certainly is a better athlete than Mitchell, as is Clark. Don’t completely discount DeOssie or Blackburn.

 

Also keep in mind that the Giants don’t seem to put a high value on linebackers. The last time the Giants drafted a linebacker in the first round was 24 years ago (Carl Banks in 1984). Since 1992, the Giants have only drafted three linebackers in the first three rounds (Marcus Buckley in the 3rd in 1993, Ryan Phillips in the 3rd in 1997, and Wilkinson in the 3rd in 2006).

 

That all said, the Giants are sure to draft a linebacker at some point. And if a play-making linebacker is available when the Giants pick at some point on Day One, the team could go in that direction. A linebacker who has the ability to play more than one position is sure to be even more attractive.

 

Defensive Backs: The Giants’ supposed interest in cornerbacks DeAngelo Hall, Nnamdi Asomugha, and Marcus Trufant seems to strongly suggest that the Giants are not completely comfortable at cornerback. And Steve Spagnuolo’s defense places a lot of pressure on cornerbacks. That all said, if the Giants did not add another player here in the draft (as unlikely as that is), the Giants would not be in bad shape. 25-year old Aaron Ross will likely start at one spot. And 26-year old Corey Webster will battle 33-year old Sam Madison for the other spot. The big question mark is Webster. Webster was so disappointing again early in 2007 that he was benched. But in the playoffs, for four consecutive games, Webster played at a high level against some of the very best in the business in the biggest of games. So what version of Webster will we see in 2008? There is a decent chance that the Giants long-term starters at corner are already on the roster in Ross and Webster. Nickel/dime corner Kevin Dockery is a decent player and Madison still is playing at a very acceptable level. But there is room for a corner to push R.W. McQuarters off of the roster and challenge the starters.

 

The Giants seem to put even less emphasis on safeties than they do linebackers. They would have liked to have kept Gibril Wilson (and under no circumstances should they have considered matching the Raiders’ offer), but they didn’t appear to make a big push for Wilson before he hit the open market. Meanwhile, the Giants seem much more comfortable with James Butler than do many fans. Spagnuolo has publicly praised Butler and the Giants tendered the restricted free agent at the $1.47 million level. Second-year player Michael Johnson runs well and can hit and tackle. He just needs to cut down on mental mistakes. Veteran Sammy Knight should vie for the starting strong safety spot, but he lacks range. The Jaguars, a team looking for help at safety, let him walk. Knight’s biggest contribution may be in the form of tutoring Butler and Johnson, similar to the role that Madison and McQuarters served with the young cornerbacks. Unless Practice Squad player Andrew Shanle really surprises, there is room here for a player who could push all of the aforementioned safeties.

 

Draft Priority: Medium to high. Again, if the Giants did nothing, they would not be in terrible shape. Ironically, although they appear to be stronger at corner than safety, it was the corner position that seemed to have their greater focus in the offseason. That seems to suggest the Giants will add at least one more corner in the draft, possibly as high as the first round. Most Giants’ fans would say that safety is the primary weakness on this team, but the Giants don’t appear overly concerned. And since this is not a great draft for safeties, I would not be shocked to see the Giants ignore the position until Day Two of the draft.

 

My gut tells me that the secondary will be an area of focus in the draft. It was the one position that made Jerry Reese nervous heading into the 2007 season. While quasi-emergence of Aaron Ross and Corey Webster may have allayed some of those concerns, I think Reese wants to get even stronger here. And his interest in Hall, Asomugha, and Trufant also suggests the same.

 

Kickers: Both punter Jeff Feagles and Lawrence Tynes were re-signed in the offseason. Feagles is a lock and the 5-year deal for Tynes seems to suggest that he is as well.

 

Draft Priority: Low.

Summary: Even the “draft experts” make the same mistake year after year – they automatically assume that teams will draft for NEED. In 2006, Jerry Reese lobbied hard for Mathias Kiwanuka when defensive end was a team strength. In 2007, he drafted Aaron Ross when cornerback was a team weakness. So he has gone in both directions. Obviously, quarterback, running back, and kicker are not going to be a priority and those positions may in fact be ignored during the draft. Tight end will not be a priority if Shockey is not traded. But everything else is fair game. And the Giants can afford to take the best player available on defense, at wide receiver, and possibly even on the offensive line. The important thing is not to reach. If you’re a fan watching the draft, don’t get hung up on positions.

I've read all of the opinions and I respect them but I would still love us to go after a safety in round 1.....in my opinion safety has been a weakness on our defense for years....

Yep. Payton is familiar with him and realizes what he brings to the table if he's used right.

 

But that's just the thing. I'm not sure if it's Eli, Gilbride, or my imagination, but it seems like his big play potential has vanished the last three years or so. I'm not saying he doesn't have any but it used to seem like he had at least one a game... now you get maybe three a season outta him.

 

I remember Phil Simms used to love to throw to his TEs. When he got hurt and Hostetler came in, suddenly Stephen Baker and Mark Ingram were getting targeted all the time. Some QBs just have a preference on who they go to in the passing game, and I think Eli may look to his WRs a more... and that may also be a reason Shock is so frustrated seemingly all the time.

I think part of the problem with Shockey being used more as a blocker and less as a receiver is Coughlin, from what I've seen and read Coughlin likes his TEs to be blockers first and receivers second..and thats pretty much the way its been since TC got here. I know Gilbride gets the blame but I think TC has a lot to do with it .

as much as I like Shockey and what he brings to the team I have some definite concerns about his being injured every season since he's been here . If the Giants have any thoughts at all about trading him then they better do it before he has another injury that might kill any ideas from another team about dealing for him. Shockey is a damn good player, not a great receiver, who is a good blocker and does drop a lot of balls that should have been caught . If he could only stay healthy none of this would even be considered and I think thats Reeses concern with him...

I'm in shock. It must be the Spagnuelo/Super Bowl high that so many people are on.

 

I remember years of Giants drafts where so many people had the Giants drafting at least one linebacker on the first day of the draft and always had a linebacker in mind for round one with the exception of the year we picked up Eli and the following year we didn't have a first round pick. Now you guys aren't looking for a linebacker on day one?

 

Have rest of you finally awoken from the dream of the return of the 3-4 defense.

 

If so, thank God.

I'm still waiting for somebody to tell me what Mel Kipers day job is, how is this guy making a living, it can't be from his draft predictions..

I think most sports writers are more interested in filling space and speculating rather than being accurate..

I heard they hook him up to the ESPN HQ building heating system to provide hot air.

thats funny but that maybe all he's good for

does anybody know what Mel Kiper does for a living besides making incorrect statements about the NFL draft ?

if the Giants (Reese) have seriously said no-deal to the Saints about a deal for Shockey then why are they still sniffing around and why hasn't this topic passed away,is there still something to it or is it just fans looking for something to talk about...I wonder..

I think you're absolutely right. Had Tiki stayed, the offense would have continued to go through him. What was the percentage, something like 60% or more of the offense was on Tiki's shoulders? Tiki's leaving directly impacted Eli's emergence. There is no doubt, none whatsoever, in my mind that if Tiki stayed, we would not have won the superbowl.

 

And for the way Tiki acted not only during his retirement year, but in the year prior and the months after, I take pride in the fact that he doesn't have a ring to show for his efforts. Yes, he was a good player and carried this team to wins during his career, but the disgraceful way he conducted himself towards the end of his playing career was pathetically childish and disrespectful. I don't think I'm alone in that I lost a lot of respect, scratch that, all respect for Tiki as an individual. I can honor his play on the field. His conduct off the field was detrimental and should be looked upon as such thereby dimming his accomplishments on the field.

I agree with both you and Martin, I also am not sure if we would have made it to the SB if Tiki had stayed last year. As big an asset to the team as he was he was just as big a distraction in the locker room and I do think he intimidated Eli with his presence. If Eli plays better without big egos in the huddle then thats the way it has to be, if you don't fit you git...

I think the team has to take care of Snee first because its his contract year coming up, and Plax needs to be rewarded for his gutty performance last year as well, as far as Osi goes he's simply going to have to wait his turn. Nothing surprising about Strahan looking for more money, he's done this ever since he's been here and now that his ex wife cleaned his plow he going to be asking for money every time Reese turns around until Reese gets tired of it and puts a stop to it..

I wonder if Tiki had it to do all over again would he have made the same choice, especially now that we went on to win the Super Bowl without him .

I think part of Joseph's problem was that he was a native Haitian/Creole speaker up until his teenage years when he came to the States. So he is probably mentally translating everything he hears or reads in English back into Creole. Not unusual for someone who learns another language beyond the age of 10.

then that doesn't exactly say too much for the U of Miami where he attended college...

I remember writing at the time Tiki left the Giants to join the Today show that his career with the Giants would last longer than his career on the Today show, looks like I was right...I felt at the time that Tiki was more interested in being a celebrity than he was in being a pro football player..

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere recently that William Joseph has the lowest score recorded since the test was started...

when a team calls another teams win a "fluke" it usually means that they lost the game

Well I have a ten inch boner that they can suck on....all the flukesters that is. And that is not a fluke. Basically fuck em...its sour grapes...they overcame 4 nemesis' and known Giant Killers Exhibit A) Garcia, Exhibit B) Romo, Exhibit C)Favre and Exhibit D) Brady in that order. There were no ref giveaways, takeaways, and/or any other such nonsense....so again fuck em.

don't we all have 10 inch boners?

personally I think that at this point in his career Boss is simply going through the same learning curve that Shockey went through, particularly with his blocking. Boss has shown me that he can play in this league and can catch the ball and just needs to hone up his blocking skills . As far as Shockey goes, I have always enjoyed his play on the field and and the enthusiasm he brings and if he stays and is 100% recovered then thats fine. The problem is that he hasn't played a full season since he's been here because of one injury or another, not saying its his fault but it is a problem. As badly as I think we need a good safety trading Shockey could be something we'll be sorry for, and we should e able to get a decent safety in this draft . My point here is be careful what you wish for, you might get it and be sorry,and that pertains to trading Shockey...

I can find something positive to say about first rounder Joseph. First rounder Ron Dayne was worse

actually I think Dayne has had more plus days in the NFL than Joseph did, Dayne really seems to be having a decent career in Houston, at least better than anywhere else he's been, definitely can't say the same for Joseph, but who knows maybe he can turn his career around with the Raiders .

We're not making a very good first impression, aren't we Jerseyguy? From time to time, we like to mess with each other by bumping old post. This post victim was Nas... So don't feel bad. Even a old savy veteran like Nas gets fool once or twice here.

not here to make any impressions, just felt like it was needless sarcasm, but apparently an inside joke that I was unaware of. I have a good sense of humor but on some of the other boards I've been on nastiness prevailed and it was dog eat dog and thats one of the reasons I came over here, so I guess my defense mechanism just prevailed. Lets just let it go and move on from here....

Sportswrath requirement, you must read the entire thread and date and content thereafter.

maybe by the time I have 10,000 posts I'll do better. I just came from a site that didn't have threads on the front page with only 30 posts that were a year old so you're right it was my oversight ....